Homebrew PCBs

Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty good. I though it 
would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most people advice 
and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in the pads did 
worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because there is no 
copper there.

   Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found out that my 
pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the pads with a 
Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets left. So after 
a little bit of search I found a website that saud you can use staple 
photo paper.

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

  Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. I dodn't know 
but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the toner but a lot 
of the traces did not stick. I did this process at least 5 times 
maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I would like to 
hear from somebody about this because at staples you can get 200 
sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I cant make it 
work then is no good to me. Here is what I did

   I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated the copper 
board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of paper on top of 
the printout because the photo paper sticks to the iron.I Iron that 
thing left and right and any which way possible aplying various 
pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water then I gave it a 
hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just as hot as I 
could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper off and only 
a few traces stuck.

  In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie in my board 
that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries to get the 
PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too well. The 
second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a mirror 
problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with the photo paper 
technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is expensive.

Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see that pattern come 
out on the copper.

You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a decent 
quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special coatings, ...).  Use a 
very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of pressure.  I use 
kids construction paper between the iron and the transfer paper to 
even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with the ironing, 
turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the board/paper until it 
cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure good toner 
adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly reliable for me and 
the last few boards I did required NO touching up.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" 
<geovar13@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
>    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty good. I though 
it 
> would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most people advice 
> and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in the pads did 
> worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because there is no 
> copper there.
> 
>    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found out that my 
> pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the pads with a 
> Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets left. So 
after 
> a little bit of search I found a website that saud you can use 
staple 
> photo paper.
> 
> http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> 
>   Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. I dodn't 
know 
> but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the toner but a 
lot 
> of the traces did not stick. I did this process at least 5 times 
> maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I would like 
to 
> hear from somebody about this because at staples you can get 200 
> sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I cant make it 
> work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> 
>    I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated the copper 
> board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of paper on top 
of 
> the printout because the photo paper sticks to the iron.I Iron that 
> thing left and right and any which way possible aplying various 
> pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water then I gave it 
a 
> hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just as hot as I 
> could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper off and 
only 
> a few traces stuck.
> 
>   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie in my board 
> that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries to get the 
> PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too well. The 
> second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a mirror 
> problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with the photo 
paper 
> technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is expensive.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:

Thank you,

   now what exactly is inkjet paper. Is that the regular white paper?

  Another important question. Onced I finished I put the leftover 
FerricCloride back in the bottle. However there was a little bit left 
in the container I did the etching. I watch it out with lots of 
water. My question is should I neutralize that little leftover with 
something. I mean I want to do things right and protect the 
enviroment. I found out that in my area all I have to do is take my 
ferric cloride bottle to a collection facility and since is for non 
comercial use then its free.

> Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see that pattern 
come 
> out on the copper.
> 
> You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a decent 
> quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special coatings, ...).  Use a 
> very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of pressure.  I 
use 
> kids construction paper between the iron and the transfer paper to 
> even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with the ironing, 
> turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the board/paper until it 
> cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure good toner 
> adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly reliable for me and 
> the last few boards I did required NO touching up.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" 
> <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty good. I 
though 
> it 
> > would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most people 
advice 
> > and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in the pads 
did 
> > worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because there is no 
> > copper there.
> > 
> >    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found out that 
my 
> > pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the pads with a 
> > Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets left. So 
> after 
> > a little bit of search I found a website that saud you can use 
> staple 
> > photo paper.
> > 
> > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> > 
> >   Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. I dodn't 
> know 
> > but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the toner but a 
> lot 
> > of the traces did not stick. I did this process at least 5 times 
> > maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I would 
like 
> to 
> > hear from somebody about this because at staples you can get 200 
> > sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I cant make 
it 
> > work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> > 
> >    I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated the 
copper 
> > board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of paper on 
top 
> of 
> > the printout because the photo paper sticks to the iron.I Iron 
that 
> > thing left and right and any which way possible aplying various 
> > pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water then I gave 
it 
> a 
> > hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just as hot as 
I 
> > could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper off and 
> only 
> > a few traces stuck.
> > 
> >   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie in my board 
> > that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries to get 
the 

> > PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too well. The 
> > second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a mirror 
> > problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with the photo 
> paper 
> > technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is expensive.

yes, I use office despot general use inkjet paper.  92 white, 24 lb.  
Look in the database section of this group for the exact details but 
I think any good quality inkjet printer paper will work.  The good 
news is it costs about $5/500 sheets.   


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" 
<geovar13@h...> wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> 
wrote:
> 
> Thank you,
> 
>    now what exactly is inkjet paper. Is that the regular white 
paper?
> 
>   Another important question. Onced I finished I put the leftover 
> FerricCloride back in the bottle. However there was a little bit 
left 
> in the container I did the etching. I watch it out with lots of 
> water. My question is should I neutralize that little leftover with 
> something. I mean I want to do things right and protect the 
> enviroment. I found out that in my area all I have to do is take my 
> ferric cloride bottle to a collection facility and since is for non 
> comercial use then its free.
> 
> > Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see that pattern 
> come 
> > out on the copper.
> > 
> > You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a decent 
> > quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special coatings, ...).  Use 
a 
> > very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of pressure.  I 
> use 
> > kids construction paper between the iron and the transfer paper 
to 
> > even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with the 
ironing, 
> > turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the board/paper until 
it 
> > cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure good toner 
> > adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly reliable for me 
and 
> > the last few boards I did required NO touching up.
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" 
> > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > >    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty good. I 
> though 
> > it 
> > > would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most people 
> advice 
> > > and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in the pads 
> did 
> > > worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because there is 
no 
> > > copper there.
> > > 
> > >    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found out that 
> my 
> > > pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the pads with 
a 
> > > Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets left. So 
> > after 
> > > a little bit of search I found a website that saud you can use 
> > staple 
> > > photo paper.
> > > 
> > > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> > > 
> > >   Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. I dodn't 
> > know 
> > > but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the toner but 
a 
> > lot 
> > > of the traces did not stick. I did this process at least 5 
times 
> > > maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I would 
> like 
> > to 
> > > hear from somebody about this because at staples you can get 
200 
> > > sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I cant make 
> it 
> > > work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> > > 
> > >    I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated the 
> copper 
> > > board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of paper on 
> top 
> > of 
> > > the printout because the photo paper sticks to the iron.I Iron 
> that 
> > > thing left and right and any which way possible aplying various 
> > > pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water then I 
gave 
> it 
> > a 
> > > hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just as hot 
as 
> I 
> > > could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper off and 
> > only 
> > > a few traces stuck.
> > > 
> > >   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie in my 
board 

> > > that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries to get 
> the 
> > > PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too well. The 
> > > second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a mirror 
> > > problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with the photo 
> > paper 
> > > technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is expensive.

Let me second that
Office Max Maxbright 94 /24lb Inkjet paper, same deal about $5.00 for 500.
It actually the same stuff as office depot, jut a diff package.

JT

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Phil" <phil1960us@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: to drill or not to drill part 2


> yes, I use office despot general use inkjet paper.  92 white, 24 lb.
> Look in the database section of this group for the exact details but
> I think any good quality inkjet printer paper will work.  The good
> news is it costs about $5/500 sheets.
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >    now what exactly is inkjet paper. Is that the regular white
> paper?
> >
> >   Another important question. Onced I finished I put the leftover
> > FerricCloride back in the bottle. However there was a little bit
> left
> > in the container I did the etching. I watch it out with lots of
> > water. My question is should I neutralize that little leftover with
> > something. I mean I want to do things right and protect the
> > enviroment. I found out that in my area all I have to do is take my
> > ferric cloride bottle to a collection facility and since is for non
> > comercial use then its free.
> >
> > > Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see that pattern
> > come
> > > out on the copper.
> > >
> > > You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a decent
> > > quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special coatings, ...).  Use
> a
> > > very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of pressure.  I
> > use
> > > kids construction paper between the iron and the transfer paper
> to
> > > even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with the
> ironing,
> > > turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the board/paper until
> it
> > > cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure good toner
> > > adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly reliable for me
> and
> > > the last few boards I did required NO touching up.
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty good. I
> > though
> > > it
> > > > would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most people
> > advice
> > > > and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in the pads
> > did
> > > > worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because there is
> no
> > > > copper there.
> > > >
> > > >    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found out that
> > my
> > > > pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the pads with
> a
> > > > Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets left. So
> > > after
> > > > a little bit of search I found a website that saud you can use
> > > staple
> > > > photo paper.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> > > >
> > > >   Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. I dodn't
> > > know
> > > > but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the toner but
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of the traces did not stick. I did this process at least 5
> times
> > > > maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I would
> > like
> > > to
> > > > hear from somebody about this because at staples you can get
> 200
> > > > sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I cant make
> > it
> > > > work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> > > >
> > > >    I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated the
> > copper
> > > > board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of paper on
> > top
> > > of
> > > > the printout because the photo paper sticks to the iron.I Iron
> > that
> > > > thing left and right and any which way possible aplying various
> > > > pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water then I
> gave
> > it
> > > a
> > > > hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just as hot
> as
> > I
> > > > could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper off and
> > > only
> > > > a few traces stuck.
> > > >
> > > >   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie in my
> board
> > > > that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries to get
> > the
> > > > PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too well. The
> > > > second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a mirror
> > > > problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with the photo
> > > paper
> > > > technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is expensive.
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...> wrote:
> Let me second that
> Office Max Maxbright 94 /24lb Inkjet paper, same deal about $5.00 
for 500.
> It actually the same stuff as office depot, jut a diff package.

Hmm, we don't have any of those stores here in vermont.Or at least 
none close by. You would think that for such an expensive state to 
live in we would have more stuff to show for. Anyways, I'll see if 
they have anything close to that at staples and give it a try. Now, 
This morning I tried a small piece of left over PnP paper and it 
worked pretty good exept for a few smears because I press the iron 
too hard. I also tried another piece of photo printer paper but this 
time I did not soak it in water. I had better result without the 
water but I was still mising some sections of the drawing. 

   Again, I'll give the inkjet paper a try and hope it does well. I 
mean for the proce is really good. However, this morning I tried a 
pice of lestover PnP paper and besides minor smear in one section it 
transfered really good. What I'm saying is that if its a lot of work 
to transfer the traces using other papers then I'll just stick to the 
PnP. I mean is expensive but if it works?!! However, I won't give up 
on other papers becuase the price and availability are just too good 
to ignore.

> 
> JT
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:33 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: to drill or not to drill part 2
> 
> 
> > yes, I use office despot general use inkjet paper.  92 white, 24 
lb.
> > Look in the database section of this group for the exact details 
but
> > I think any good quality inkjet printer paper will work.  The good
> > news is it costs about $5/500 sheets.
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > >    now what exactly is inkjet paper. Is that the regular white
> > paper?
> > >
> > >   Another important question. Onced I finished I put the 
leftover
> > > FerricCloride back in the bottle. However there was a little bit
> > left
> > > in the container I did the etching. I watch it out with lots of
> > > water. My question is should I neutralize that little leftover 
with
> > > something. I mean I want to do things right and protect the
> > > enviroment. I found out that in my area all I have to do is 
take my
> > > ferric cloride bottle to a collection facility and since is for 
non
> > > comercial use then its free.
> > >
> > > > Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see that 
pattern
> > > come
> > > > out on the copper.
> > > >
> > > > You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a decent
> > > > quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special coatings, ...).  
Use
> > a
> > > > very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of 
pressure.  I
> > > use
> > > > kids construction paper between the iron and the transfer 
paper
> > to
> > > > even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with the
> > ironing,
> > > > turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the board/paper 
until
> > it
> > > > cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure good toner
> > > > adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly reliable for 
me
> > and
> > > > the last few boards I did required NO touching up.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty good. I
> > > though
> > > > it
> > > > > would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most people
> > > advice
> > > > > and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in the 
pads
> > > did
> > > > > worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because there 
is
> > no
> > > > > copper there.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found out 
that
> > > my
> > > > > pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the pads 
with
> > a
> > > > > Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets left. 
So
> > > > after
> > > > > a little bit of search I found a website that saud you can 
use
> > > > staple
> > > > > photo paper.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> > > > >
> > > > >   Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. I 
dodn't
> > > > know
> > > > > but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the toner 
but
> > a
> > > > lot
> > > > > of the traces did not stick. I did this process at least 5
> > times
> > > > > maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I 
would
> > > like
> > > > to
> > > > > hear from somebody about this because at staples you can get
> > 200
> > > > > sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I cant 
make
> > > it
> > > > > work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> > > > >
> > > > >    I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated the
> > > copper
> > > > > board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of paper 
on
> > > top
> > > > of
> > > > > the printout because the photo paper sticks to the iron.I 
Iron
> > > that
> > > > > thing left and right and any which way possible aplying 
various
> > > > > pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water then I
> > gave
> > > it
> > > > a
> > > > > hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just as 
hot
> > as
> > > I
> > > > > could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper off 
and
> > > > only
> > > > > a few traces stuck.
> > > > >
> > > > >   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie in my
> > board
> > > > > that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries to 
get
> > > the
> > > > > PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too well. 
The
> > > > > second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a 
mirror
> > > > > problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with the 
photo
> > > > paper
> > > > > technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is 
expensive.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and 
files:

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

stapes will have something. try this one - its looks pretty close 
http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/sku.asp?
PageType=1&Sku=478684&bcFlag=True&bcSCatId=1&bcSCatName=Office+Supplie
s&bcCatId=10&bcCatName=Paper&bcDeptId=1467&bcDeptName=Inkjet+Paper&bcC
lassId=140781&bcClassName=White+Inkjet+Paper

sorry about the long url, I dont have time to build a tinyurl.

if the url doesnt work its item #478684

Phil

  Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" <geovar13@h...> 
wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...> 
wrote:
> > Let me second that
> > Office Max Maxbright 94 /24lb Inkjet paper, same deal about $5.00 
> for 500.
> > It actually the same stuff as office depot, jut a diff package.
> 
> Hmm, we don't have any of those stores here in vermont.Or at least 
> none close by. You would think that for such an expensive state to 
> live in we would have more stuff to show for. Anyways, I'll see if 
> they have anything close to that at staples and give it a try. Now, 
> This morning I tried a small piece of left over PnP paper and it 
> worked pretty good exept for a few smears because I press the iron 
> too hard. I also tried another piece of photo printer paper but 
this 
> time I did not soak it in water. I had better result without the 
> water but I was still mising some sections of the drawing. 
> 
>    Again, I'll give the inkjet paper a try and hope it does well. I 
> mean for the proce is really good. However, this morning I tried a 
> pice of lestover PnP paper and besides minor smear in one section 
it 
> transfered really good. What I'm saying is that if its a lot of 
work 
> to transfer the traces using other papers then I'll just stick to 
the 
> PnP. I mean is expensive but if it works?!! However, I won't give 
up 
> on other papers becuase the price and availability are just too 
good 
> to ignore.
> 
> > 
> > JT
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:33 PM
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: to drill or not to drill part 2
> > 
> > 
> > > yes, I use office despot general use inkjet paper.  92 white, 
24 
> lb.
> > > Look in the database section of this group for the exact 
details 
> but
> > > I think any good quality inkjet printer paper will work.  The 
good
> > > news is it costs about $5/500 sheets.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > >    now what exactly is inkjet paper. Is that the regular white
> > > paper?
> > > >
> > > >   Another important question. Onced I finished I put the 
> leftover
> > > > FerricCloride back in the bottle. However there was a little 
bit
> > > left
> > > > in the container I did the etching. I watch it out with lots 
of
> > > > water. My question is should I neutralize that little 
leftover 
> with
> > > > something. I mean I want to do things right and protect the
> > > > enviroment. I found out that in my area all I have to do is 
> take my
> > > > ferric cloride bottle to a collection facility and since is 
for 
> non
> > > > comercial use then its free.
> > > >
> > > > > Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see that 
> pattern
> > > > come
> > > > > out on the copper.
> > > > >
> > > > > You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a 
decent
> > > > > quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special 
coatings, ...).  
> Use
> > > a
> > > > > very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of 
> pressure.  I
> > > > use
> > > > > kids construction paper between the iron and the transfer 
> paper
> > > to
> > > > > even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with the
> > > ironing,
> > > > > turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the board/paper 
> until
> > > it
> > > > > cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure good 
toner
> > > > > adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly reliable 
for 
> me
> > > and
> > > > > the last few boards I did required NO touching up.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty good. 
I
> > > > though
> > > > > it
> > > > > > would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most 
people
> > > > advice
> > > > > > and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in the 
> pads
> > > > did
> > > > > > worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because 
there 
> is
> > > no
> > > > > > copper there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found 
out 
> that
> > > > my
> > > > > > pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the 
pads 
> with
> > > a
> > > > > > Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets 
left. 
> So
> > > > > after
> > > > > > a little bit of search I found a website that saud you 
can 
> use
> > > > > staple
> > > > > > photo paper.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. I 
> dodn't
> > > > > know
> > > > > > but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the 
toner 
> but
> > > a
> > > > > lot
> > > > > > of the traces did not stick. I did this process at least 5
> > > times
> > > > > > maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I 
> would
> > > > like
> > > > > to
> > > > > > hear from somebody about this because at staples you can 
get
> > > 200
> > > > > > sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I 
cant 
> make
> > > > it
> > > > > > work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated 
the
> > > > copper
> > > > > > board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of 
paper 
> on
> > > > top
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the printout because the photo paper sticks to the iron.I 
> Iron
> > > > that
> > > > > > thing left and right and any which way possible aplying 
> various
> > > > > > pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water then 
I
> > > gave
> > > > it
> > > > > a
> > > > > > hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just 
as 
> hot
> > > as
> > > > I
> > > > > > could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper 
off 
> and
> > > > > only
> > > > > > a few traces stuck.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie in 
my
> > > board
> > > > > > that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries 
to 
> get
> > > > the
> > > > > > PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too 
well. 

> The
> > > > > > second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a 
> mirror
> > > > > > problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with the 
> photo
> > > > > paper
> > > > > > technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is 
> expensive.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and 
> files:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> stapes will have something. try this one - its looks pretty close 
> http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/sku.asp?
> 
Cool I'll give that a try, Now why does plain paper works. I mean I 
have plain paer here although I don't know what kind. I tried that 
but it just laught at me. regardless I'm running low on paper so its 
worth a couple of tries.

PageType=1&Sku=478684&bcFlag=True&bcSCatId=1&bcSCatName=Office+Supplie
> 
s&bcCatId=10&bcCatName=Paper&bcDeptId=1467&bcDeptName=Inkjet+Paper&bcC
> lassId=140781&bcClassName=White+Inkjet+Paper
> 
> sorry about the long url, I dont have time to build a tinyurl.
> 
> if the url doesnt work its item #478684
> 
> Phil
> 
>   Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" <geovar13@h...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...> 
> wrote:
> > > Let me second that
> > > Office Max Maxbright 94 /24lb Inkjet paper, same deal about 
$5.00 
> > for 500.
> > > It actually the same stuff as office depot, jut a diff package.
> > 
> > Hmm, we don't have any of those stores here in vermont.Or at 
least 
> > none close by. You would think that for such an expensive state 
to 
> > live in we would have more stuff to show for. Anyways, I'll see 
if 
> > they have anything close to that at staples and give it a try. 
Now, 
> > This morning I tried a small piece of left over PnP paper and it 
> > worked pretty good exept for a few smears because I press the 
iron 
> > too hard. I also tried another piece of photo printer paper but 
> this 
> > time I did not soak it in water. I had better result without the 
> > water but I was still mising some sections of the drawing. 
> > 
> >    Again, I'll give the inkjet paper a try and hope it does well. 
I 
> > mean for the proce is really good. However, this morning I tried 
a 
> > pice of lestover PnP paper and besides minor smear in one section 
> it 
> > transfered really good. What I'm saying is that if its a lot of 
> work 
> > to transfer the traces using other papers then I'll just stick to 
> the 
> > PnP. I mean is expensive but if it works?!! However, I won't give 
> up 
> > on other papers becuase the price and availability are just too 
> good 
> > to ignore.
> > 
> > > 
> > > JT
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:33 PM
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: to drill or not to drill part 2
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > yes, I use office despot general use inkjet paper.  92 white, 
> 24 
> > lb.
> > > > Look in the database section of this group for the exact 
> details 
> > but
> > > > I think any good quality inkjet printer paper will work.  The 
> good
> > > > news is it costs about $5/500 sheets.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" 
<phil1960us@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > >    now what exactly is inkjet paper. Is that the regular 
white
> > > > paper?
> > > > >
> > > > >   Another important question. Onced I finished I put the 
> > leftover
> > > > > FerricCloride back in the bottle. However there was a 
little 
> bit
> > > > left
> > > > > in the container I did the etching. I watch it out with 
lots 
> of
> > > > > water. My question is should I neutralize that little 
> leftover 
> > with
> > > > > something. I mean I want to do things right and protect the
> > > > > enviroment. I found out that in my area all I have to do is 
> > take my
> > > > > ferric cloride bottle to a collection facility and since is 
> for 
> > non
> > > > > comercial use then its free.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see that 
> > pattern
> > > > > come
> > > > > > out on the copper.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a 
> decent
> > > > > > quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special 
> coatings, ...).  
> > Use
> > > > a
> > > > > > very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of 
> > pressure.  I
> > > > > use
> > > > > > kids construction paper between the iron and the transfer 
> > paper
> > > > to
> > > > > > even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with the
> > > > ironing,
> > > > > > turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the board/paper 
> > until
> > > > it
> > > > > > cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure good 
> toner
> > > > > > adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly reliable 
> for 
> > me
> > > > and
> > > > > > the last few boards I did required NO touching up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > > > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty 
good. 
> I
> > > > > though
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most 
> people
> > > > > advice
> > > > > > > and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in 
the 
> > pads
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because 
> there 
> > is
> > > > no
> > > > > > > copper there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I found 
> out 
> > that
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the 
> pads 
> > with
> > > > a
> > > > > > > Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets 
> left. 
> > So
> > > > > > after
> > > > > > > a little bit of search I found a website that saud you 
> can 
> > use
> > > > > > staple
> > > > > > > photo paper.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   Now I tried using this process on another blank PCB. 
I 
> > dodn't
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the 
> toner 
> > but
> > > > a
> > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > of the traces did not stick. I did this process at 
least 5
> > > > times
> > > > > > > maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. I 
> > would
> > > > > like
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > hear from somebody about this because at staples you 
can 
> get
> > > > 200
> > > > > > > sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I 
> cant 
> > make
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    I made the print out on the glossy side. I preheated 
> the
> > > > > copper
> > > > > > > board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of 
> paper 
> > on
> > > > > top
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the printout because the photo paper sticks to the 
iron.I 
> > Iron
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > thing left and right and any which way possible aplying 
> > various
> > > > > > > pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water 
then 
> I
> > > > gave
> > > > > it
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling just 
> as 
> > hot
> > > > as
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the paper 
> off 
> > and
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > a few traces stuck.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie 
in 
> my
> > > > board
> > > > > > > that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 tries 
> to 
> > get
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too 
> well. 
> > The
> > > > > > > second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was a 
> > mirror
> > > > > > > problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with 
the 
> > photo
> > > > > > paper
> > > > > > > technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is 
> > expensive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks 
and 

> > files:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

Its hard to say why your "plain" paper didn't work - material or 
technique.  I believe laser paper is formulated to fuse tightly with 
the toner - it may have less or no coating.  Inkjet paper is 
formulated with a coating so the ink does not soak in and widen.  I 
believe that coating is what makes it work for TT.

When I first tried IJ paper, it would pop off the the board while the 
toner was liquid and thus give me bad results.  By leaving the iron 
on and making it cool while in contact with copper made all the 
difference.  Also, roughing up the copper creates more surface area 
for bonding.

The other thing is you need a very hot iron.  Definitely linen 
setting.  I believe I said cotton earlier, I wuz rong.

Phil

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" 
<geovar13@h...> wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> 
wrote:
> > stapes will have something. try this one - its looks pretty close 
> > http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/sku.asp?
> > 
> Cool I'll give that a try, Now why does plain paper works. I mean I 
> have plain paer here although I don't know what kind. I tried that 
> but it just laught at me. regardless I'm running low on paper so 
its 
> worth a couple of tries.
> 
> 
PageType=1&Sku=478684&bcFlag=True&bcSCatId=1&bcSCatName=Office+Supplie
> > 
> 
s&bcCatId=10&bcCatName=Paper&bcDeptId=1467&bcDeptName=Inkjet+Paper&bcC
> > lassId=140781&bcClassName=White+Inkjet+Paper
> > 
> > sorry about the long url, I dont have time to build a tinyurl.
> > 
> > if the url doesnt work its item #478684
> > 
> > Phil
> > 
> >   Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas" 
<geovar13@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Taylor" <jt@j...> 
> > wrote:
> > > > Let me second that
> > > > Office Max Maxbright 94 /24lb Inkjet paper, same deal about 
> $5.00 
> > > for 500.
> > > > It actually the same stuff as office depot, jut a diff 
package.
> > > 
> > > Hmm, we don't have any of those stores here in vermont.Or at 
> least 
> > > none close by. You would think that for such an expensive state 
> to 
> > > live in we would have more stuff to show for. Anyways, I'll see 
> if 
> > > they have anything close to that at staples and give it a try. 
> Now, 
> > > This morning I tried a small piece of left over PnP paper and 
it 
> > > worked pretty good exept for a few smears because I press the 
> iron 
> > > too hard. I also tried another piece of photo printer paper but 
> > this 
> > > time I did not soak it in water. I had better result without 
the 
> > > water but I was still mising some sections of the drawing. 
> > > 
> > >    Again, I'll give the inkjet paper a try and hope it does 
well. 
> I 
> > > mean for the proce is really good. However, this morning I 
tried 
> a 
> > > pice of lestover PnP paper and besides minor smear in one 
section 
> > it 
> > > transfered really good. What I'm saying is that if its a lot of 
> > work 
> > > to transfer the traces using other papers then I'll just stick 
to 
> > the 
> > > PnP. I mean is expensive but if it works?!! However, I won't 
give 
> > up 
> > > on other papers becuase the price and availability are just too 
> > good 
> > > to ignore.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > JT
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Phil" <phil1960us@y...>
> > > > To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:33 PM
> > > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: to drill or not to drill part 2
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > yes, I use office despot general use inkjet paper.  92 
white, 
> > 24 
> > > lb.
> > > > > Look in the database section of this group for the exact 
> > details 
> > > but
> > > > > I think any good quality inkjet printer paper will work.  
The 
> > good
> > > > > news is it costs about $5/500 sheets.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" 
> <phil1960us@y...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    now what exactly is inkjet paper. Is that the regular 
> white
> > > > > paper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Another important question. Onced I finished I put the 
> > > leftover
> > > > > > FerricCloride back in the bottle. However there was a 
> little 
> > bit
> > > > > left
> > > > > > in the container I did the etching. I watch it out with 
> lots 
> > of
> > > > > > water. My question is should I neutralize that little 
> > leftover 
> > > with
> > > > > > something. I mean I want to do things right and protect 
the
> > > > > > enviroment. I found out that in my area all I have to do 
is 
> > > take my
> > > > > > ferric cloride bottle to a collection facility and since 
is 
> > for 
> > > non
> > > > > > comercial use then its free.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Congrats on progress.  It is very satisfying to see 
that 
> > > pattern
> > > > > > come
> > > > > > > out on the copper.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You really dont need to use PnP.  Try, instead, using a 
> > decent
> > > > > > > quality inkjet paper (not glossy, no special 
> > coatings, ...).  
> > > Use
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > very hot iron (cotton, highest setting) and lots of 
> > > pressure.  I
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > kids construction paper between the iron and the 
transfer 
> > > paper
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > even out the irregularities.   Once you are done with 
the
> > > > > ironing,
> > > > > > > turn off the iron but leave it sitting on the 
board/paper 
> > > until
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > cools down a bit (below the fusing point) to ensure 
good 
> > toner
> > > > > > > adhesion to the copper.  this process is highly 
reliable 
> > for 
> > > me
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > the last few boards I did required NO touching up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
> > > > > > > <geovar13@h...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Ok, today I did my first PCB. It tuen out pretty 
> good. 
> > I
> > > > > > though
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > would be a little bit more complicated. I follow most 
> > people
> > > > > > advice
> > > > > > > > and drilled at after the etching procees. The hole in 
> the 
> > > pads
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > worked as a guide plus it was eaier to drill because 
> > there 
> > > is
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > > copper there.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    Before I did the etching I was at a dilema. I 
found 
> > out 
> > > that
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > pads where too small. My options where to enlarge the 
> > pads 
> > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > Sharpie or redo the drawing. I only have 3 PnP sheets 
> > left. 
> > > So
> > > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > a little bit of search I found a website that saud 
you 
> > can 
> > > use
> > > > > > > staple
> > > > > > > > photo paper.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >   Now I tried using this process on another blank 
PCB. 
> I 
> > > dodn't
> > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > but I can't make it work. I can transfer some of the 
> > toner 
> > > but
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > lot
> > > > > > > > of the traces did not stick. I did this process at 
> least 5
> > > > > times
> > > > > > > > maybe more. The results where not satifactory for me. 
I 
> > > would
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > hear from somebody about this because at staples you 
> can 
> > get
> > > > > 200
> > > > > > > > sheets for $30. That is cheap. On the other hand if I 
> > cant 
> > > make
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > work then is no good to me. Here is what I did
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    I made the print out on the glossy side. I 
preheated 
> > the
> > > > > > copper
> > > > > > > > board then I put the printout. I but a black piece of 
> > paper 
> > > on
> > > > > > top
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the printout because the photo paper sticks to the 
> iron.I 
> > > Iron
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > thing left and right and any which way possible 
aplying 
> > > various
> > > > > > > > pressures. When I was done I ran it under cold water 
> then 
> > I
> > > > > gave
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > hot water bath. Now  the hot water was not boiling 
just 
> > as 
> > > hot
> > > > > as
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > could get it from the faucet. I tried peeling the 
paper 
> > off 
> > > and
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > a few traces stuck.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >   In the end I just filled in the pads with a Sharpie 
> in 
> > my
> > > > > board
> > > > > > > > that I did using the PnP paper. It only took me 3 
tries 
> > to 
> > > get
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > PnP to work right. The first one it did not stick too 
> > well. 
> > > The
> > > > > > > > second one was a an aligment problem. or maybe it was 
a 

> > > mirror
> > > > > > > > problem. Unless someone can tell me whats wrong with 
> the 
> > > photo
> > > > > > > paper
> > > > > > > > technique I'm sticking with the PnP even though is 
> > > expensive.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks 
> and 
> > > files:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

> Cool I'll give that a try, Now why does plain paper works. I mean I
> have plain paer here although I don't know what kind. I tried that
> but it just laught at me. regardless I'm running low on paper so its
> worth a couple of tries.
>

plain paper does only laugh at me too...

i think it is the fibers, the toner holds on to this surface like hell.

I use inkjet matt paper (coated) which works very well.
Another box of glossy coated is sitting here waiting for me to try.

For fusing i use a old copier fuser at 160 deg. C. i run it through slowly 
several times,
then take it while still hot and dump it in water.
with some rubbing the paper comes off nicely.

far better results than with clothes iron. I could use the boards then but 
there
were always areas which failed. (e.g. the board outline).
not a single flaw in any board i made with the fuser so far, no rework.

I always thought when i read about the laminators 'nah, i don't need that',
but now i see that it is really so much easier to use the fuser.

And the best is it was completely free, so who complains?


Plain paper doesn't work i think, you could coat it with gravy but i doubt 
it is wise
to increase the number of variables.

I would never buy any PnP with the results i get with inkjet paper.


good luck

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> stapes will have something. try this one - its looks pretty close 

<http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/sku.asp?PageType=1&Sku=478684&bcFlag=True&bcSCatId=1&bcSCatName=Office+Supplies&bcCatId=10&bcCatName=Paper&bcDeptId=1467&bcDeptName=Inkjet+Paper&bcClassId=140781&bcClassName=White+Inkjet+Paper>

> sorry about the long url, I dont have time to build a tinyurl.

It's simple, add <> around the URL. See above.

> if the url doesnt work its item #478684

Don't forget to trim...

Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mr_gees100_peas"
<geovar13@h...> wrote:

> http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

A little full of himself, isn't he? ;') His curve tracer kit does look
impressive. Lotsa links:
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/links.htm

Did you clean the board with a degreaser? I don't use hand soap or bar
soap, as it always seems to contain lanonin or some other oils.

409 works extremely well, as does Comet cleanser. Use a Scotch Brite
pad or one of those plastic wool pads. Rinse extremely well.

Check the Links here on the list for more sites on Toner Transfer.

Steve

> A little full of himself, isn't he? ;') His curve tracer kit does look
> impressive. Lotsa links:
> http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/links.htm
>


I didn't dare to mention (ok i only didn't think of it ;-) ) the curve 
tracer topic
as it is OT. But now, steve mentioned it, so i am innocent ;-).
I would like to have one to measure fets, bipolar and of course diodes.
I have a scope with lots of inputs, lots of X/Y possibilities and lots of 
outputs
(sweep, trigger...) and also z in.

What makes most sense to build?
I would like to check the overall function, compare transistors to match 
them (so it
should be a dual unit) and also measure diodes (like quick sorting zeners).
It should also get a "bias point" section where a dvm measures the voltage
(for sorting zener diodes)

The commercial units are to expensive, the TEK plugin is also not cheap 
and it can't
compare i think.

I have analog storage (var. persistence and bistable) so it won't matter 
if it is slow.


It is a analog scope so there is the problem with the writing speed, it is 
not
very good to have huge diffences in it because the line gets hard to see 
then (or you melt
the glass already where it is slow ;-) )

And of course - it should be cheap... very cheap..


what do you think? anyone built such a unit?

thanks

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> 
> > A little full of himself, isn't he? ;') His curve tracer kit does look
> > impressive. Lotsa links:
> > http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/links.htm
> >
> 
> 
> I didn't dare to mention (ok i only didn't think of it ;-) ) the curve 
> tracer topic
> as it is OT. But now, steve mentioned it, so i am innocent ;-).
> I would like to have one to measure fets, bipolar and of course diodes.
... snip ...

Hey, now, Stefan, you've gotten on people's cases for posts like that.

This will quickly spread to a long thread(s) on O'scopes, curve
tracers, DMMs, computerized O'Scopes, etc.

Check out the Electronics_101 list where this is on topic:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Electronics_101

Steve

> Hey, now, Stefan, you've gotten on people's cases for posts like that.
>
> This will quickly spread to a long thread(s) on O'scopes, curve
> tracers, DMMs, computerized O'Scopes, etc.
>
> Check out the Electronics_101 list where this is on topic:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Electronics_101
>
> Steve
>

ok, ok i will go there..
thanks..

ST