Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

I got a nice guitar sound by setting up an input with Guitar amp and some other stuff in the 
inserts. Now, how do I record the guitar with the efx?
Lee

you don't initially.

if you want to keep those effects for sure, you can solo and bounce 
the track then replace the original with the new one.

otherwise just leave it with the effects.  you can hit the freeze 
button on the track (its the snow flake icon) to free up your cpu if 
you have a million effects on a million tracks.  Freeze makes 
seperate audio files (temporary) which include all your effects, 
etc.  this file is played back instead of your original recording 
through the pluggins.

 --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "leescott17" <pipoon@...> wrote:
>
> I got a nice guitar sound by setting up an input with Guitar amp 
and some other stuff in the 

> inserts. Now, how do I record the guitar with the efx?
> Lee
>

My efx are inserted on an input audio object. I want to print the guitar as it sounds thru 
the efx as I'm playing. I guess I need to bus it to an audio track, but I haven't figured that 
out.




--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "dannywleo" <dannywleo@...> wrote:

>
> you don't initially.
> 
> if you want to keep those effects for sure, you can solo and bounce 
> the track then replace the original with the new one.
> 
> otherwise just leave it with the effects.  you can hit the freeze 
> button on the track (its the snow flake icon) to free up your cpu if 
> you have a million effects on a million tracks.  Freeze makes 
> seperate audio files (temporary) which include all your effects, 
> etc.  this file is played back instead of your original recording 
> through the pluggins.
> 
>  --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "leescott17" <pipoon@> wrote:
> >
> > I got a nice guitar sound by setting up an input with Guitar amp 
> and some other stuff in the 
> > inserts. Now, how do I record the guitar with the efx?
> > Lee
> >
>

Have you tried just recording the guitar clean? Then apply the fx? This gives 
you total flexibility! For example, you can then split that track and put it 
on several audio tracks, and apply different amounts of distortion and fx, at 
different parts of the song. You can even re-amp the output of Logic back 
through a real amp and mic it back in - and mix all these versions of the part 
together for a killer sound.

> 
> My efx are inserted on an input audio object. I want to print the guitar as 
> it sounds thru
> the efx as I'm playing. I guess I need to bus it to an audio track, but I 
> haven't figured that
> out.
> 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't want to record clean. I have a guitar amp pro sound with a compressor and 
enveloper inserted. The sound is perfect for my project, I just want to record that sound as 
I play. Can't I route that somehow?

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:

>
> Have you tried just recording the guitar clean? Then apply the fx? This gives 
> you total flexibility! For example, you can then split that track and put it 
> on several audio tracks, and apply different amounts of distortion and fx, at 
> different parts of the song. You can even re-amp the output of Logic back 
> through a real amp and mic it back in - and mix all these versions of the part 
> together for a killer sound.
> 
> > 
> > My efx are inserted on an input audio object. I want to print the guitar as 
> > it sounds thru
> > the efx as I'm playing. I guess I need to bus it to an audio track, but I 
> > haven't figured that
> > out.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> I don't want to record clean. I have a guitar amp pro sound with a 
> compressor and
> enveloper inserted. The sound is perfect for my project, I just want to 
> record that sound as
> I play. Can't I route that somehow?
> 

I believe so, but I have never actually tried that. (So I am of little help 
here). Did you try routing to a bus, and click the icon so the bus appears in 
the arrange window, maybe solo it, then bounce your output to audio?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not that I want to jump into this one, but I was
thinking about what your going for. I usually do
something along the lines of using Sound Forge to do
what you want. If you have a sound card that supports
it(my crappy EMU0404 does it ok). Bacially you frist
setup sound forge, and open a new blank session, and
then select to record. Make sure that you have a line
out to your mixing desk, and then take the out from
the mixing desk back into your sound card. This should
make it kind of like a line loop. what goes out comes
back in. Now if you have other instruments playing in
your track then you wont beable to do it. you would
get the whole track obviously. 

The next way I thought about doing it involves a VST
plug in that I found on KVR(www.kvraudio.com). I can't
remember how I searched for it, but you should be able
to look it up by the actual name. It's called "tape
it".  Really useful little plug in. Basically it
behaves like a bouncer for individual tracks as well
as you have the ablity to place it anywhere in the
effects chain and it will record whatever you have
playing from that point. An example whould be in your
case placing one tapeit before a delay sound, and then
one after. you would end up with two files. One clean
and one with efx. 

Finally, there is a way to do excatly as the first
suggestion with out a mixer if you have a mac. The
program is called Audio Hijack if I remember. ya
that's it... I just looked it up. 

http://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/

It's just a Computer sound recorder. it records
anything that is playing on your computer on the fly.
pretty dope, but I just use the Tape it thing... saves
mad space, and time, and allows you to create a couple
versions of the same sound really quickly once you get
used to it.. 

hope this helps ya or anybody else that runs into this
kind of problem.

note: these also work when you start running out of
memory in a project and your computer starts to chug a
little, just start bouncing some of the pieces out to
.wav files, and then put them back into the
sequencer...

EZ, 
Chuck 
--- GAmoore@... wrote:

> > I don't want to record clean. I have a guitar amp
> pro sound with a 
> > compressor and
> > enveloper inserted. The sound is perfect for my
> project, I just want to 
> > record that sound as
> > I play. Can't I route that somehow?
> > 
> 
> I believe so, but I have never actually tried that.
> (So I am of little help 
> here). Did you try routing to a bus, and click the
> icon so the bus appears in 
> the arrange window, maybe solo it, then bounce your
> output to audio?
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


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there are a lot of guitar magazines and interviews where people talk about 
re-amping. In fact, there is a $200 box you can get for this purpose although 
its not really necessary. But the thing I am planning on doing very soon, is 
take a Y cord out of the guitar, and one cable go to a Pod XT to get a cool sound 
to inspire me, and then the other cable goes to a DI input on the preamp to 
get a totally clean sound. Then you play back that clean track through the 
re-amp box into a POD or a Marshall, and re-record it. You could even ride the 
preamp during the recording and do multiple takes with different settings, then 
either cut and paste them together, or cross fade them or have 20% clean with 
60% mild distortion with 20% heavy distortion and phaser.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judging from all the responces I got, It seems there is no way run a guitar thru Guitar Amp 
Pro and directly record that sound. In the old days you could plug your guitar into a 
fuzzbox, connect the output of that to the input of your tape machine and record the 
sound.

I have a Metric Halo 2882. I can physically patch a cable from the analog output of my 
effected guitar track to the analog input of an audio track and record. I'm trying to figure 
out if this can be done internally with the Metric Halo software.

I also tried setting up the plugins on an audio track in record, but that doesn't work so 
well because I'm getting some latency.

In Pro Tools you would send the effected sound out a bus, set up a new track with that bus 
as it's input and record the effected sound.

Can't Logic do this?

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:

>
> there are a lot of guitar magazines and interviews where people talk about 
> re-amping. In fact, there is a $200 box you can get for this purpose although 
> its not really necessary. But the thing I am planning on doing very soon, is 
> take a Y cord out of the guitar, and one cable go to a Pod XT to get a cool sound 
> to inspire me, and then the other cable goes to a DI input on the preamp to 
> get a totally clean sound. Then you play back that clean track through the 
> re-amp box into a POD or a Marshall, and re-record it. You could even ride the 
> preamp during the recording and do multiple takes with different settings, then 
> either cut and paste them together, or cross fade them or have 20% clean with 
> 60% mild distortion with 20% heavy distortion and phaser.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

But the thing I am planning on doing very soon, is 
take a Y cord out of the guitar, and one cable go to a Pod XT to get a cool sound 
to inspire me, and then the other cable goes to a DI input on the preamp to 
get a totally clean sound.


Why don´t you just use the Guitar Amp Pro, in that case the recorded signal will be a clean one which can be used for re-recording through an amp. I find it perfectly possible to get decent sounds out of it but of course if high latency is an issue then that won´t work. The Pods have a latency between 128 and 256, the Bass Pod being the worst (around 7ms if I remember correctly, which is around 300 samples) so it´s not like performance is significantly better than a good soundcard, worse actually. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judging from all the responces I got, It seems there is no way run a guitar thru Guitar Amp 
Pro and directly record that sound. In the old days you could plug your guitar into a 
fuzzbox, connect the output of that to the input of your tape machine and record the 
sound.


Did you try adding the FX to an input channel (instead of the usual audio track) and then record it. I seem to remember having done that a couple of years ago. If that doesn´t work I still don´t understand why it´s such a big deal to freeze the track after recording, it takes 1 minute or so and it gives you the option off changing the sound at a later stage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Why don´t you just use the Guitar Amp Pro, in that case the recorded signal 
> will be a clean one which can be used for re-recording through an amp. I 
> find it perfectly possible to get decent sounds out of it but of course if high 
> latency is an issue then that won´t work. The Pods have a latency between 128 
> and 256, the Bass Pod being the worst (around 7ms if I remember correctly, 
> which is around 300 samples) so it´s not like performance is significantly 
> better than a good soundcard, worse actually.
> 

Its easy to fix that by opening the sample editor and pulling off the latency 
part because the latency is uniform I believe. the issue for me is getting 
the best possible tone. I guess I have not tried any of the software plugs. the 
pod is reasonably good, but I think a real amp gives the best tone.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK, let me try restating the problem.  I created an input audio object. I inserted Guitar 
Amp Pro, a compressor and an enveloper. I love the sound, I have to play thru the plugins 
because it affects the way I play. Now I want to record that sound. If I set up the same 
plugins on an audio track, then go into record I get a little latency which affects my playing 
adversely. This all has to be done live, Its no help to freeze the track later. I have a work 
around for now - I send input object with its plugins out of output 8 on my Metric Halo 
2882 interface, then physically patch analog ouput 8 to an analog input on the interface 
and record thru that input. I just thought that there ought to be a way to do this virtually, 
within the program without resorting cabling.



--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:

>
> > Why don´t you just use the Guitar Amp Pro, in that case the recorded signal 
> > will be a clean one which can be used for re-recording through an amp. I 
> > find it perfectly possible to get decent sounds out of it but of course if high 
> > latency is an issue then that won´t work. The Pods have a latency between 128 
> > and 256, the Bass Pod being the worst (around 7ms if I remember correctly, 
> > which is around 300 samples) so it´s not like performance is significantly 
> > better than a good soundcard, worse actually.
> > 
> 
> Its easy to fix that by opening the sample editor and pulling off the latency 
> part because the latency is uniform I believe. the issue for me is getting 
> the best possible tone. I guess I have not tried any of the software plugs. the 
> pod is reasonably good, but I think a real amp gives the best tone.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On 15/8/06 4:07 AM, leescott17 wrote:

> In Pro Tools you would send the effected sound out a bus, set up a new track
> with that bus 
> as it's input and record the effected sound.

I really don't understand why you would want to record a wet signal. Imagine
a couple weeks down the track, when you're mixing your project and you'll
find the sound isn't sitting in the mix as well as you thought...

With freeze tracks and the facility to bounce the wet track to disk it
really makes no sense to do this.

michael

In a message dated 8/14/06 3:48:29 PM, pipoon@... writes:

> go into record I get a little latency which affects my playing
> adversely. This all has to be done live, Its no help to freeze the track 
> later.
> 

So is latency the issue? Are you not getting latency with what you are doing 
now? Or perhaps you were not playing with the beat so you were unaware of it? 
I think I can guarantee you that you will always get latency from playing live 
through plugins. There may be a Logic preference about software monitoring 
that may help with that. And yes, latency will definitely screw up your playing 
- its horrible. However, if you monitor off a mixer going into Logic instead 
of the outputs of Logic, then you get 0 latency. So mute the track you are 
recording onto, and only listen to the beats or whatever and the raw mixer feed of 
your guitar and you'll have no latency and the sound you want!! Its just that 
it won't sound like you want AS you are recording, but once its recorded, you 
can hear it as you want to. You could also use my trick and spit the signal 
into a pod to get the ambience to inspire, while laying down the track. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> In a message dated 8/14/06 3:48:29 PM, pipoon@... writes:
> 
>> go into record I get a little latency which affects my playing
>> adversely. This all has to be done live, Its no help to freeze the track
>> later.

Latency will be the same placing plugs on an input object or a channel
strip. The signal still has to be processed by the computer regardless. Turn
on software monitoring and adjust your buffer as low as it can go, the
latter reduces latency. I'm on a 2x2 G5 and run my buffer at 128, at this
setting I get almost zero latency.

On 15/08/2006, at 4:07 AM, leescott17 wrote:

> Judging from all the responces I got, It seems there is no way run  
> a guitar thru Guitar Amp
> Pro and directly record that sound. In the old days you could plug  
> your guitar into a
> fuzzbox, connect the output of that to the input of your tape  
> machine and record the
> sound.

I've not followed this thread from the beginning  but it is  
definitely possible to record a source with plugin effects in place.

Firstly you have to set up input audio objects in Logic that  
correspond to your audio interfaces physical audio inputs. Many do  
not even realise there is such a thing as an audio input object.

Then say you're recording into input 2 of you audio interface, then  
you would insert Guitar Amp (or any plugin) on "audio input object  
#2" inside Logic. Then on the track you're recording onto, select  
input 2 as source and you will record the sound you are hearing.

Depending on the plugin used the latency may be acceptable or  
impossible to perform with.
>
> I have a Metric Halo 2882. I can physically patch a cable from the  
> analog output of my
> effected guitar track to the analog input of an audio track and  
> record. I'm trying to figure
> out if this can be done internally with the Metric Halo software.

This is completly not necessary. Do it how I describe above.

> I also tried setting up the plugins on an audio track in record,  
> but that doesn't work so
> well because I'm getting some latency.

Yes, and you will not record the sound set this way. You will only  
monitor it. As mentioned above record FX inserted on an input object  
will incur the same amount of latency as well. Try dropping your  
audio buffer size if you haven't already. The 2882 has fine drivers  
and should be able to cope with a 128 sample setting - offering about  
3 - 6 ms of latency which is generally regarded as the highest amount  
of latency most people are prepared to accept during live performance.

Logic's Guitar Amp Pro adds very little latency and I often get  
guitar players to record through it. Bear in mind that if you are  
running other plugins and virtual instruments inside the same session  
they will add to your overall latency as well if plugin delay  
compensation is turned on - which it should be - as to leave it off  
will fix your latency but you have no assurance that all your tracks  
will be in time together

>
> In Pro Tools you would send the effected sound out a bus, set up a  
> new track with that bus
> as it's input and record the effected sound.
>
> Can't Logic do this?

No. You can't assign a bus as an input to a track in Logic. There is  
a workaround though. Using any plugin that has a side chain input,  
insert on the track you want to record onto. You can select a bus as  
input there and then record it back that way. I've not done it myself  
as I use a RME interface which allows me to patch an output back to  
an input digitally so I get around it that way. Probably the 2882 can  
do this also.

Regards


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paul Najar
Jaminajar Music Production
www.jaminajar.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 15/08/2006, at 8:46 AM, leescott17 wrote:

> OK, let me try restating the problem.  I created an input audio  
> object. I inserted Guitar
> Amp Pro, a compressor and an enveloper. I love the sound, I have to  
> play thru the plugins
> because it affects the way I play. Now I want to record that sound.  
> If I set up the same
> plugins on an audio track, then go into record I get a little  
> latency which affects my playing
> adversely.
> This all has to be done live, Its no help to freeze the track  
> later. I have a work
> around for now - I send input object with its plugins out of output  
> 8 on my Metric Halo
> 2882 interface, then physically patch analog ouput 8 to an analog  
> input on the interface
> and record thru that input. I just thought that there ought to be a  
> way to do this virtually,
> within the program without resorting cabling.

There is. See my other post. I don't understand why you can not  
record the FX inserted on the input object???

>
> --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:
>>
>>> Why don´t you just use the Guitar Amp Pro, in that case the  
>>> recorded signal
>>> will be a clean one which can be used for re-recording through an  
>>> amp. I
>>> find it perfectly possible to get decent sounds out of it but of  
>>> course if high
>>> latency is an issue then that won´t work. The Pods have a latency  
>>> between 128
>>> and 256, the Bass Pod being the worst (around 7ms if I remember  
>>> correctly,
>>> which is around 300 samples) so it´s not like performance is  
>>> significantly
>>> better than a good soundcard, worse actually.
>>>
>>
>> Its easy to fix that by opening the sample editor and pulling off  
>> the latency
>> part because the latency is uniform I believe. the issue for me is  
>> getting
>> the best possible tone. I guess I have not tried any of the  
>> software plugs. the
>> pod is reasonably good, but I think a real amp gives the best tone.
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks, I finally got it! I didn't understand that the input object  
was directly connected to the audio track input. This works for me  
now. I still want to try the side chain input trick.  Lee
On Aug 14, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Paul Najar wrote:

>
> On 15/08/2006, at 8:46 AM, leescott17 wrote:
>
> > OK, let me try restating the problem. I created an input audio
> > object. I inserted Guitar
> > Amp Pro, a compressor and an enveloper. I love the sound, I have to
> > play thru the plugins
> > because it affects the way I play. Now I want to record that sound.
> > If I set up the same
> > plugins on an audio track, then go into record I get a little
> > latency which affects my playing
> > adversely.
> > This all has to be done live, Its no help to freeze the track
> > later. I have a work
> > around for now - I send input object with its plugins out of output
> > 8 on my Metric Halo
> > 2882 interface, then physically patch analog ouput 8 to an analog
> > input on the interface
> > and record thru that input. I just thought that there ought to be a
> > way to do this virtually,
> > within the program without resorting cabling.
>
> There is. See my other post. I don't understand why you can not
> record the FX inserted on the input object???
>
> >
> > --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:
> >>
> >>> Why don´t you just use the Guitar Amp Pro, in that case the
> >>> recorded signal
> >>> will be a clean one which can be used for re-recording through an
> >>> amp. I
> >>> find it perfectly possible to get decent sounds out of it but of
> >>> course if high
> >>> latency is an issue then that won´t work. The Pods have a latency
> >>> between 128
> >>> and 256, the Bass Pod being the worst (around 7ms if I remember
> >>> correctly,
> >>> which is around 300 samples) so it´s not like performance is
> >>> significantly
> >>> better than a good soundcard, worse actually.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Its easy to fix that by opening the sample editor and pulling off
> >> the latency
> >> part because the latency is uniform I believe. the issue for me is
> >> getting
> >> the best possible tone. I guess I have not tried any of the
> >> software plugs. the
> >> pod is reasonably good, but I think a real amp gives the best tone.
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]