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Quick question

Quick question

2009-02-24 by Steve Currington

Before we start I am a Logic newbie and am learning the hard way.. ala  
manuals and trial and error so be gentle on me  <grin>

I am thinking of purchasing an M-audio Axiom 49 (or Axiom Pro 49)  
keyboard for use with both Logic Studio v8 and Sibelius Notation  
software. I have limited $$ (am a student) so buying a full sized al  
singing and dancing device is not in my budget. I have been into the  
local suppliers and like the feel of the M-audio Axiom keyboard and  
the prices are about right.

Now using them with Sibelius is easy No brainer there..    Either will  
work just fine - so would a less expensive keyboard so really that is  
not my issue.  And I am not really that concerned about the extra  
features and programability for use with Sibelius (although some  
features would be great or useful)

Anyway,  has anyone got either of these Axiom Models and has comments  
about their use within Logic?

Seems that the Pro model has "smart" features that make the additional  
cost worthwhile?   Does anyone out there in Logic Land really use  
these and how good/useful are they?

That said I assume that as the non-pro model is fully customisable  
then with some work it could also be made to interface really well too..
But seem with the pro a lot of the hard work is done and with the  
Hypercontrol feature seems like the Pro may be worth teh additional  
cost.

Anyway..  Comments anyone??.

NB no need to discuss other hardware (I realise we all have favourites  
and pet loves etc)  all I am interested in is comments about the M- 
audio Axiom range..



Steve Currington
Student Composer
Wellington, New Zealand

Web:        http://www.singers.org.nz

24" iMac 2.8Ghz, 4Gb RAM, 320 Gb HDD, 1Tb Ext HDD,  500Gb Portable  
External Drive
OSX v10.5.6 (Leopard), Broadband & Airport Extreme Wireless Network
Sibelius 5.2, Logic Studio v8, NeoOffice, Firefox, Zotero



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Quick question

2009-02-24 by GAmoore@aol.com

i used to have an axiom and it worked fine with logic. i just used it as a 
keyboard though. i think there is always a bit of latency with all things usb so 
don't expect it to be as wonderful as they say. also you have to connect 
directly to a usb port on the computer - not through a hub.


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Re: [Logic_Cafe] Quick question

2009-02-24 by Steve Currington

Thanks for the comments.


Steve Currington
Composer
Wellington, New Zealand

Web:        http://www.singers.org.nz

24" iMac 2.8Ghz, 4Gb RAM, 320 Gb HDD, 1Tb Ext HDD,  500Gb Portable  
External Drive
OSX v10.5.6 (Leopard), Broadband & Airport Extreme Wireless Network
Sibelius 5.2, Logic Studio v8, NeoOffice, Firefox, Zotero

On 25/02/2009, at 10:36 AM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> i used to have an axiom and it worked fine with logic. i just used  
> it as a
> keyboard though. i think there is always a bit of latency with all  
> things usb so
> don't expect it to be as wonderful as they say. also you have to  
> connect
> directly to a usb port on the computer - not through a hub.
>
> **************
> A Good
> Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecredi
> treport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd 
> %3Dfebemailfo
> oterNO62)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re:Quick question

2009-02-25 by Erik Häusler

Hi Steve,

I´ve worked with Logic since the Atari days on its predecessors  
Creator and Notator but i´m currently making Pro Tools my mainframe app.

When it comes to notation Logic has done nothing since Logic 3,  
whereas Digi bought Sibelius a couple of years ago and the integration  
is starting to show. Its notation (new to PT8) is taken from there. It  
also has the ability to export to Sibelius (although not to import,  
not yet anyway...)
Since Digi/PT also have a lot of interaction with M-Audio this should  
not pose a problem, on the contrary.
PT8 is a big step forward. And the elastic audio option is certainly  
worth having a look at. The ability to drag recycle loops straight to  
a track is another example of their ongoing commitment to listening to  
and responding to their users needs in a way Logic/Emagic/Apple doesn 
´t. PT is definitely catching up on the MIDI side. And they´re way  
ahead on the audio.
Graphically I much prefer the look of PT8. The ability to route a  
channel to 2 different buses (parallel compression, manipulating or  
distorting a.o.) is another option I´ve started using.

If you´re to learn a program from the start it wouldn´t mean too much  
extra work anyway.

Downsides? The plugs take up a bit more DSP in RTAS. You need an  
external hardware box that works as a key. They´re made by Digi and M- 
audio, don´t kow if that would be an issue to you.

All the best

/E

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re:Quick question

2009-02-25 by GAmoore@aol.com

In general, I would only consider Protools if you are not doing any midi at 
all - like recording live rock bands. For any kind of production and creation I 
think Logic is far superior. I used Protools 6 LE for a while, and its midi 
features were just terrible. You also only get two screen sets - mixer and 
arrange and thats it. The audio had a few features Logic did not have at the time 
8 years ago, but now Logic has those. Logic also comes with a lot more free 
plugs. In fact, PT used audio suite where you could not audition the sounds in 
real time. And PT has plenty of people complaining about it, their slowness to 
implement things, and their high prices. So think carefully.


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Re: Quick question

2009-02-27 by Erik Häusler

Dear GA Moore,

I´ll refrain from entering the PT-L war. Your remark that PT´s MIDI  
functions back in good old v.6 was bad is absolutely correct but I  
fail to see the interest. I´d never touch PT6. Actually I never did.  
Didn´t open PT7 neither.
There is a reason why I, first and foremost a MIDI worker has switched  
after 20 years. There is also a reason why I didn´t switch until  
version 8. From your letter I gather you´re yet pretty unfamiliar with  
it.
They´re both great music making apps, Logic being the traditional MIDI  
player´s choice and Pro Tools the trad live and recording app.
But now with L8 and PT8 the gap has closed considerably.
To me personally L8 was a disappointment. it looks boring and did  
nothing to speed up my workflow, in fact quite the opposite. I still  
work (when in Logic) in v.7. To me L8 is a compromise from a company  
who´s turning away from it´s professional music makers.
Pro Tools is playing a totally different ballgame.

We´re giving advice to a guy who wants an app to work in tandem with  
Sibelius. Since the new Pro Tools MIDI abilities are now pretty much  
up to par with Logic, and it´s score and certainly audio capabilities  
are far superior I would without the shred of a doubt recommend  
working in PT8.

/Erik

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re:Quick question

2009-02-27 by Steve Currington

Actually Avid bought Sibelius.
I think Digi bought Finale.

And M-Audio is also owned by Avid.


Stephen Currington




On 26/02/2009, at 6:13 AM, Erik Häusler wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> I´ve worked with Logic since the Atari days on its predecessors
> Creator and Notator but i´m currently making Pro Tools my mainframe  
> app.
>
> When it comes to notation Logic has done nothing since Logic 3,
> whereas Digi bought Sibelius a couple of years ago and the integration
> is starting to show. Its notation (new to PT8) is taken from there. It
> also has the ability to export to Sibelius (although not to import,
> not yet anyway...)
> Since Digi/PT also have a lot of interaction with M-Audio this should
> not pose a problem, on the contrary.
> PT8 is a big step forward. And the elastic audio option is certainly
> worth having a look at. The ability to drag recycle loops straight to
> a track is another example of their ongoing commitment to listening to
> and responding to their users needs in a way Logic/Emagic/Apple doesn
> ´t. PT is definitely catching up on the MIDI side. And they´re way
> ahead on the audio.
> Graphically I much prefer the look of PT8. The ability to route a
> channel to 2 different buses (parallel compression, manipulating or
> distorting a.o.) is another option I´ve started using.
>
> If you´re to learn a program from the start it wouldn´t mean too much
> extra work anyway.
>
> Downsides? The plugs take up a bit more DSP in RTAS. You need an
> external hardware box that works as a key. They´re made by Digi and M-
> audio, don´t kow if that would be an issue to you.
>
> All the best
>
> /E
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re:Quick question

2009-02-27 by Steven Woolgar

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:49:19 +1300, Steve Currington wrote:
> Actually Avid bought Sibelius.
> I think Digi bought Finale.

Digi is a fully owned subsidiary of Avid, no, Digi does not own Finale,
Finale is owned by MakeMusic, Inc,. (Nasdaq: MMUS).

> And M-Audio is also owned by Avid.

Indeed, a couple of years ago, Avid bought M-Audio through it's Digi 
division.




W.

Re: Quick question

2009-02-27 by c_eisenhardt

>Since the new Pro Tools MIDI abilities are now pretty much  
> up to par with Logic, and it´s score and certainly audio capabilities  
> are far superior I would without the shred of a doubt recommend  
> working in PT8.

I think the general underlining feeling I'm getting from this post is
that progress has been made with Pro-Tools and Apple has fallen behind
the curve.
Apple does not seem to care about supporting its "Pro audio"
application anymore.
It is glaringly obvious to me. I have vested a lot into this program.
I've spent money on tutorials, gone to Logic seminars and talked to a
lot of Logic users.
I can't afford to jump ship and buy PT with an m-box and peripheral
cards right now. It kinda sucks for me because I feel like I was left
out in the cold with Apple.
But at some point, I will jump ship for a DAW program that is
supported by the company who makes it.
...I really don't think that is too much to ask a developer for!

charlie

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

2009-02-27 by GAmoore@aol.com

I wouldn't assume Logic has been abandoned. Some day there will suddenly be 
an announcement of an update without any warning.

Despite PT's improvements, I really doubt that PT has midi capabilities 
anywhere equal to Logic which are pretty well developed and used by hundreds of 
thousands of people daily. Does PT even have a matrix window or event list tied 
into score window automatically, or have that velocity editing view, or % 
quantizations, or the transform window? I am sure PT has added a lot, just as Logic 
has continued to add a lot in the audio and plugin areas, but that doesn't 
make PT superior. In fact, I think Logic is more or less the standard when it 
comes to music creation DAW's worldwide.


**************
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Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

2009-02-27 by Stephen Klugh

I think we all have are different reasons why we think one DAW is better than the other. To me it should be based on the type of recording that you are planning to use the software for and your knowledge of what the software can do. I personally chose Logic because it fit my needs and I felt I understood Logic better than PT. I agree there are changes on both softwares that could make it more effecient for the user but it's up to Apple and Digi to decide on what and how they want to please their users. This might be out of line to say but this is a Logic Group so we are going to be more bias to Logic. I'm not trying to insult anyone.  




________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "GAmoore@..." <GAmoore@...>
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:07:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question


I wouldn't assume Logic has been abandoned. Some day there will suddenly be 
an announcement of an update without any warning.

Despite PT's improvements, I really doubt that PT has midi capabilities 
anywhere equal to Logic which are pretty well developed and used by hundreds of 
thousands of people daily. Does PT even have a matrix window or event list tied 
into score window automatically, or have that velocity editing view, or % 
quantizations, or the transform window? I am sure PT has added a lot, just as Logic 
has continued to add a lot in the audio and plugin areas, but that doesn't 
make PT superior. In fact, I think Logic is more or less the standard when it 
comes to music creation DAW's worldwide.

************ **
A Good Credit Score is 700 
or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! 
(http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x121882 2736x1201267884/ aol?redir= http:%2F% 2Fwww.freecredit report.com% 2Fpm%
2Fdefault.aspx% 3Fsc%3D668072% 26hmpgID% 3D62%26bcd% 3Dfebemailfooter NO62)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

2009-02-28 by Lucas, Bryan

Logic is dead/not supported/abandoned?   Those are scary words to a Logic newbie who is investing a lot of time into learning the product.  What information are you basing your comments on that they don't seem to care about it anymore?  Reading the wiki, it looks like Logic 7 came out in 2004, Logic 8 in 2007, and reading chatter elsewhere it seems reasonable to think 2010.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c_eisenhardt
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:52 AM
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question


>Since the new Pro Tools MIDI abilities are now pretty much
> up to par with Logic, and it´s score and certainly audio capabilities
> are far superior I would without the shred of a doubt recommend
> working in PT8.

I think the general underlining feeling I'm getting from this post is
that progress has been made with Pro-Tools and Apple has fallen behind
the curve.
Apple does not seem to care about supporting its "Pro audio"
application anymore.
It is glaringly obvious to me. I have vested a lot into this program.
I've spent money on tutorials, gone to Logic seminars and talked to a
lot of Logic users.
I can't afford to jump ship and buy PT with an m-box and peripheral
cards right now. It kinda sucks for me because I feel like I was left
out in the cold with Apple.
But at some point, I will jump ship for a DAW program that is
supported by the company who makes it.
...I really don't think that is too much to ask a developer for!

charlie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

2009-02-28 by Alex Aliferis

No, there's no real reason to think that Logic has been abandoned.
A lot of people want to see long standing issues addressed. I personally think that the app should be far more responsive interface-wise, but besides that, I'm pretty happy with it.

Cheers,
Alex Aliferis 
Patche Collections For Logic Pro
www.orwelldigital.com


On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:43 PM, "Lucas, Bryan" <b.lucas@...> wrote:

Logic is dead/not supported/abandoned? Those are scary words to a Logic newbie who is investing a lot of time into learning the product. What information are you basing your comments on that they don't seem to care about it anymore? Reading the wiki, it looks like Logic 7 came out in 2004, Logic 8 in 2007, and reading chatter elsewhere it seems reasonable to think 2010.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of c_eisenhardt
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:52 AM
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

>Since the new Pro Tools MIDI abilities are now pretty much
> up to par with Logic, and it´s score and certainly audio capabilities
> are far superior I would without the shred of a doubt recommend
> working in PT8.

I think the general underlining feeling I'm getting from this post is
that progress has been made with Pro-Tools and Apple has fallen behind
the curve.
Apple does not seem to care about supporting its "Pro audio"
application anymore.
It is glaringly obvious to me. I have vested a lot into this program.
I've spent money on tutorials, gone to Logic seminars and talked to a
lot of Logic users.
I can't afford to jump ship and buy PT with an m-box and peripheral
cards right now. It kinda sucks for me because I feel like I was left
out in the cold with Apple.
But at some point, I will jump ship for a DAW program that is
supported by the company who makes it.
...I really don't think that is too much to ask a developer for!

charlie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Quick question

2009-02-28 by c_eisenhardt

> No, there's no real reason to think that Logic has been abandoned.

-I'm not trying to fan fires or rabble-rouse. But can anyone tell us when the last upgrade 
was for Logic 8? 
I think it was over a year ago. That's amazing. A year in this era of disposable electronic 
software is an eternity.  
My iPhone gets regular updates and firmware upgrades, but not Apple's Pro-Audio app?
And yes, I know an iPhone is vastly different from an Audio DAW but the 'sting' is what 
bothers me.
That is that Apple seems to devote their resources to their money-maker consumer 
devices & programs: iLife, iPhones & iPods. And turns a deaf ear (pun intended,)  to their 
pro-users.

Logic 8 I'm sure, could use a patch or two to correct a few buggy-problems that have 
been there since it came out. Can anyone name another DAW program company that puts 
out one massive incremental upgrade every few years and then barley releases patches or 
upgrades to all those customers? Or who has NO support for its users?
I can't.

I agree with someone who said here that we use whatever program suits our needs.
I too have vested a lot of time into learning this program to help with making music.
But I soon will have to upgrade my Mac to something more current and along with that 
goes upgrading my DAW...

I just want to know there will be a Logic-Pro when I buy that new Mac... I wish Apple 
would just take a thousandth of their iPhone profits and give it to the Logic development 
guys to run with... The results would be awesome, I'm sure. : )

charlie

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

2009-02-28 by GAmoore@aol.com

I just got Microsoft Office 2008. I think the version I was using was MS 
Office 2004. So despite being a big important company, MS Office does not get 
updates every three months - more like three years. Logic is pretty well developed 
already, and pretty stable. I think most people are spending their time 
getting things done and producing music, rather than wait for some minor new 
feature or miniscule bug fix.

---------------
But can anyone tell us when the last upgrade was for Logic 8?
I think it was over a year ago. That's amazing. A year in this era of 
disposable electronic
software is an eternity. My iPhone gets regular updates and firmware 
upgrades, but not Apple's Pro-Audio app?


**************
A Good Credit Score is 700 or 
Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Quick question

2009-03-02 by c_eisenhardt

Ok, I hear what you're saying but as far as I remember, Word 2004 did auto-update itself 
on a semi-regular basis.
Bug-fixes can be necessary and are kind of important to me... If nothing else, it gives a 
user some sense that the programmers are on top of real-world issues that can hamper 
the functionality of the program. 
I too use Word 2004 and was receiving auto-updates regularly the first few years I had it.

Since becoming a Logic user, I can count on one hand the number of times there was a 
Pro update that included Logic among its fixes. (Granted I started using Logic in 2005.)
Is Logic so steady that it does not need ANY upgrades or fixes? Hardly. 
Just read these forums to hear of the duplicatable problems that have plagued the 
program for years.

I do not think my being concerned with the way Apple treats their Logic customers is 
wrong.
If the program is as rock-steady as you claim then Apple would be touting that in ads or 
at trade-shows. If Logic were really that buttoned-up, Apple would at least be luring 
droves of customers from Pro-Tools or Live. 
Sadly, it's not.

I really don't quite understand this die-hard defensive posturing about Logic being above 
updates and Apple support... Wouldn't your workflow improve if Apple actually addressed 
issues that everyone complained about? Wouldn't it be helpful if Apple actually had some 
sort of dialog with their customers? I mean, to me a Pro Application means there's pro-
support. ANY kind of support. That's what usually separates consumer programs from the 
pro ones...

So, I guess we will just have to wait for the ivory towers of Apple to grant us the next 
version of Logic... When will that be again? 2010? 2011? 2015?
As much as I'd love to wait around for that, I don't know if I can afford to.
I want a program that grows with technology its users. 

Please Apple, don't shut us out...

charlie




--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I just got Microsoft Office 2008. I think the version I was using was MS 
> Office 2004. So despite being a big important company, MS Office does not get 
> updates every three months - more like three years. Logic is pretty well developed 
> already, and pretty stable. I think most people are spending their time 
> getting things done and producing music, rather than wait for some minor new 
> feature or miniscule bug fix.
>

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

2009-03-02 by Stephen Klugh

I don't think anybody is excusing Apple from their responsibility of making updates and fixing the bugs that Logic has. I think we were stating that we chose Logic because of what we feel it could do for us and our recordings and for most of us it gets the job done. I'm not an Apple disciple that believes everything that Apple does is great but I made the decision to use the Logic software. Nobody made me choose it, I made the decision to buy it with all its glam and all its flaws. Everyone is entitled to their on opinion and I'm not going to debate over what I think is best, but it was stated in a previous email  that Logic was becoming obsolete and just being ran over by the competition (not exact words but this was the idea). I don't agree or believe that to be a true statement. Logic has a lot of features and things that other software's don't have or that would require more money to add via plug-ins. We can argue over the differences and both have
 solid argument's but it comes down to choice. If the updates and fixes are keeping you from getting your music done then you need to bug the Apple support, programmers, or whoever until you get what you want. Your are right you paid your hard earned money and you need the results. But if you are looking for an alliance, I don't know if you will get it. I'm pleased with the results that I get from Logic. 



________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: c_eisenhardt <c_eisenhardt@...>
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:39:10 PM
Subject: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question


Ok, I hear what you're saying but as far as I remember, Word 2004 did auto-update itself 
on a semi-regular basis.
Bug-fixes can be necessary and are kind of important to me... If nothing else, it gives a 
user some sense that the programmers are on top of real-world issues that can hamper 
the functionality of the program. 
I too use Word 2004 and was receiving auto-updates regularly the first few years I had it.

Since becoming a Logic user, I can count on one hand the number of times there was a 
Pro update that included Logic among its fixes. (Granted I started using Logic in 2005.)
Is Logic so steady that it does not need ANY upgrades or fixes? Hardly. 
Just read these forums to hear of the duplicatable problems that have plagued the 
program for years.

I do not think my being concerned with the way Apple treats their Logic customers is 
wrong.
If the program is as rock-steady as you claim then Apple would be touting that in ads or 
at trade-shows. If Logic were really that buttoned-up, Apple would at least be luring 
droves of customers from Pro-Tools or Live. 
Sadly, it's not.

I really don't quite understand this die-hard defensive posturing about Logic being above 
updates and Apple support... Wouldn't your workflow improve if Apple actually addressed 
issues that everyone complained about? Wouldn't it be helpful if Apple actually had some 
sort of dialog with their customers? I mean, to me a Pro Application means there's pro-
support. ANY kind of support. That's what usually separates consumer programs from the 
pro ones...

So, I guess we will just have to wait for the ivory towers of Apple to grant us the next 
version of Logic... When will that be again? 2010? 2011? 2015?
As much as I'd love to wait around for that, I don't know if I can afford to.
I want a program that grows with technology its users. 

Please Apple, don't shut us out...

charlie

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogro ups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:
>
> I just got Microsoft Office 2008. I think the version I was using was MS 
> Office 2004. So despite being a big important company, MS Office does not get 
> updates every three months - more like three years. Logic is pretty well developed 
> already, and pretty stable. I think most people are spending their time 
> getting things done and producing music, rather than wait for some minor new 
> feature or miniscule bug fix.
> 





      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Quick question / Logic Bugs, History, etc.. [from Man Parrish]

2009-03-02 by Man Parrish

Hey..

My 2 cents worth..

Apple bought Logic from a company in Germany several years back. They fired most of 
the staff and kept a few people on in the Calif office. They merged them with Apple. The 
old Emagic company that Logic came from was a real mess. Updates were buggy and the 
code was unstable. They had to sell to get out, it was so bad, but the code was good.

I'm assuming Logic Pro has a lot of old "legacy' code left that has to be 'converted' one of 
these days. Seems like Apple wanted the old Logic, and was bought to pull code, to make 
up Garage Band. It was not a high priority piece of software. 

In the grand scheme of things, not that many "pro" producers out there buying copies of 
Logic off the shelves.  Apple's Logic software is good, but does not have the user base like 
photoshop, word, excel, etc.. Updates are not MAJOR priority.

 Logic is one of their more complicated apps, like Final Cut. Final Cut is used to make 
commercials and Movies, it's more high profile for Apple [think Pixar] to get people to buy 
Macs, than a so called "dying business" like the music industry. Remember, Apple is a 
HARDWARE company that makes machines. Not a software company like Adobe or 
Microsoft. The fact that Logic is so good, is amazing. Does Dell, or HP have music software 
from their offices like Logic?

Also right now Apple business profit is iphones, iphone apps, Macs and the itunes store. I 
doubt they want to take their top software engineers, that probably know little about the 
deeper side of music recording, and have them spend a few months on tweaking Logic.

I can only imagine the thousands of lines of code that give you the ability to do half the 
things that no other similar app can do. Logic doesn't even have a big "division" at Apple. 
Jeeze, if you call for tech support, the guy reads from a screen until he hits a wall and 
forwards you on to a higher tier of help.

Honestly... if you REALLY need changes, start a petition or website and get TONS of users 
to complain, forward it to Apple CEO's, their press and legal offices, but if 25 people email 
them, it's not going to be a priority for Apple. But I should say with several BILLION [with a 
"b"] in reserves, hiring a few more engineers to head up a Logic division wouldn't strain 
the bank over at apple. But there is another issue that may prevent that....

I don't know if you notice [I've been with apple since the 70's with my Apple IIc, but Apple 
kinda waits for the industry to develop new stuff and have success with it [like time 
stretching with Ableton Live] and THEN they see a need and reverse engineer it into Logic. 
I can't think of anything Apple developed [Apple Loops = Sony Acid] that is totally unique 
to Logic. Not a complaint, and Apple usually does it better, but like CPU speeds, there's not 
a hell of a lot of new technology out there for music, and spend time on Logic. Dedicated 
Logic engineers would have a lot of free time on their hands! I do LOVE that Ableton Live is 
incorporating Cycling 74 into Live to custom program it. Logic had that option in 
"Environments" but it was complicated and a real mess.

Apple did an amazing job at cleaning up Logic. Yes, it has bugs, but most people either 
don't use the buggy areas or don't care to complain in enough numbers. We are artist, this 
is our tools. Apple is a business, this is their product and products need sales numbers to 
get higher priority. They will fix stuff, but not at the same pace as other apps that are 
more used by the general public. [Think iLife, Safari & Quicktime number of users 
compared to Logic]

Apple dropped the price of Logic to compete. Awesome ! In my opinion it's better than 
Cubase [which I had] Better than Performer [jeeze.. I even ran Opcode back in the day] and 
for everything else like plug-ins, etc.. beats the expensive Pro Tools RTAS system. Most of 
us here are composers, musician and producers. If you plan to run a LIVE recording studio 
and do live bands or live recording for a living, then Pro Tools may be the way to go for 
compatibility.. eg:when a band brings in files from another studio.

I can tell you I've PERSONALLY recorded, mixed AND mastered over 70 commercially 
released records, a ballet score and 2 film scores on Logic, and not once have I ever had 
any problems or complaints with the artist or labels or studios, etc..

Unless you are doing some crazy 196k or 96k recordings, Logic records like ANY other 
app at 44 & 48K and does it well. And funny enough, in the end, it all gets mixed to Mp3 
or M4P these days anyway.  Funny thing with all this...I had a hit record that I did on a 
tascam 1/2 nch 8 track in the 80's and sold 3.5 million copies. If the track is there, it's 
there. Splitting hairs on which recording app is best, is important, BUT its a good 
engineer, good song and careful recording practices that make a track stand out. 

So, as an old skool dude, I hope this helps !

Thanx - Man Parrish 

www,ManParrish.com

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Quick question

2009-03-03 by GAmoore@aol.com

Traditionally, PT has been something of a standard for digital recording studios, while Live has bee a looper/techno tool. Logic was mainly been a tool for composing and recording in my view. So they have different audiences or users. 

Yes, we would all like more frequent updates, but perhaps its better to have them thoroughly tested and the bugs worked out first.

Almost no company advertises that their product doesn't crash. But Logic has been pretty stable for me for the past few years - which was not always the case.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----






Ok, I hear what you're saying but as far as I remember, Word 2004 did auto-update itself 
on a semi-regular basis.
Bug-fixes can be necessary and are kind of important to me... If nothing else, it gives a 
user some sense that the programmers are on top of real-world issues that can hamper 
the functionality of the program. 
I too use Word 2004 and was receiving auto-updates regularly the first few years I had it.

Since becoming a Logic user, I can count on one hand the number of times there was a 
Pro update that included Logic among its fixes. (Granted I started using Logic in 2005.)
Is Logic so steady that it does not need ANY upgrades or fixes? Hardly. 
Just read these forums to hear of the duplicatable problems that have plagued the 
program for years.

I do not think my being concerned with the way Apple treats their Logic customers is 
wrong.
If the program is as rock-steady as you claim then Apple would be touting that in ads or 
at trade-shows. If Logic were really that buttoned-up, Apple would at least be luring 
droves of customers from Pro-Tools or Live. 
Sadly, it's not.

I really don't quite understand this die-hard defensive posturing about Logic being above 
updates and Apple support... Wouldn't your workflow improve if Apple actually addressed 
issues that everyone complained about? Wouldn't it be helpful if Apple actually had some 
sort of dialog with their customers? I mean, to me a Pro Application means there's pro-
support. ANY kind of support. That's what usually separates consumer programs from the 
pro ones...

So, I guess we will just have to wait for the ivory towers of Apple to grant us the next 
version of Logic... When will that be again? 2010? 2011? 2015?
As much as I'd love to wait around for that, I don't know if I can afford to.
I want a program that grows with technology its users. 

Please Apple, don't shut us out...

charlie

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:
>
> I just got Microsoft Office 2008. I think the version I was using was MS 
> Office 2004. So despite being a big important company, MS Office does not get 
> updates every three months - more like three years. Logic is pretty well developed 
> already, and pretty stable. I think most people are spending their time 
> getting things done and producing music, rather than wait for some minor new 
> feature or miniscule bug fix.
> 








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