Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

Hello,
I'm sorry if this isn't 100% Logic related, but I'm hoping I can find a few
people here who use the Emagic Unitor 8 midi interface and also use Logic 8.
 I'd like to invite you to test out a new configuration preference pane that
I have written for this interface to replace the flakey SoundDiver
implementation.

If you are interesting you can find more information about the project here:
http://www.potm.org/software/Unitor/

And you can download the application here:
http://www.potm.org/software/Downloads/

Thanks,
Kurt Arnlund


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 09/03/2009, at 7:56 PM, karnlund @... wrote:

> Hello,
> I'm sorry if this isn't 100% Logic related, but I'm hoping I can  
> find a few
> people here who use the Emagic Unitor 8 midi interface and also use  
> Logic 8.
> I'd like to invite you to test out a new configuration preference  
> pane that
> I have written for this interface to replace the flakey SoundDiver
> implementation.
>
> If you are interesting you can find more information about the  
> project here:
> http://www.potm.org/software/Unitor/
>
> And you can download the application here:
> http://www.potm.org/software/Downloads/

Wow. Thanks. I'll try it out in the next few days....

Kind regards


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paul Najar
Jaminajar Music Production
www.jaminajar.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Kurt,
very nice! I'm totally interested.
Thank you for posting.
Jan

On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:56 AM, karnlund @... wrote:

> Hello,
> I'm sorry if this isn't 100% Logic related, but I'm hoping I can  
> find a few
> people here who use the Emagic Unitor 8 midi interface and also use  
> Logic 8.
> I'd like to invite you to test out a new configuration preference  
> pane that
> I have written for this interface to replace the flakey SoundDiver
> implementation.
>
> If you are interesting you can find more information about the  
> project here:
> http://www.potm.org/software/Unitor/
>
> And you can download the application here:
> http://www.potm.org/software/Downloads/
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I\ufffdm on holiday reading the Logic tutorial, which is excellent, and I am 
learning a lot from it. Can recommend it to any other novices, its worth 
every penny. 

One subject that\ufffds not explained is when to choose mono and when stereo when 
recording. For instance, I haven\ufffdt a clue whether it would be better to 
record piano, vocals or bass in mono. I have always chosen stereo. Could 
someone explain when it would be benefical to chose mono? 

Thanks in advance. 

Andy B

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Brook" <bbgrove@...> wrote:
>
> I´m on holiday reading the Logic tutorial, which is excellent, and I am 
> learning a lot from it. Can recommend it to any other novices, its worth 
> every penny. 
> 
> One subject that´s not explained is when to choose mono and when stereo when 
> recording. For instance, I haven´t a clue whether it would be better to 
> record piano, vocals or bass in mono. I have always chosen stereo. Could 
> someone explain when it would be benefical to chose mono? 
> 
> Thanks in advance. 
> 
> Andy B
>

There are no hard and fast rules, though some instruments do lend themselves to one or the other.  The key is to think about the instrument and whether you consider it a single point source of sound or a dual point source of sound.  For instance, one would not expect a bass guitar to have left and right sources.  A bass guitar plays through a single source, the amp, and thus is a mono instrument.  Same for kick drum, snare, a saxaphone, trombone, piano, etc.

That being said there might be cases where you want to take a mono source and make it stereo. For instance, a piano is usually a mono source.  However, if you use a `dream piano' kind of patch (lots of reverb, maybe echo, etc to get an other-worldly kind of sound) then you would probably want it stereo.  Why?  Because you might want to control the echos (think delay) across the stereo image.

Remember that mono does not mean it comes out of one speaker. ;) You get equal levels of the instrument through both speakers. You can pan mono instruments left and right so that one side is reduced and the other increased.  This is done a great deal for drum kits.  You have lots of mono sources (kick, snare, toms, cymbals, etc.) but each is panned differently to give each breathing space.

As with all things audio, listening and experimenting is the best way to learn the nuances of mono vs stereo.  I think (hope) I've given you a good foundation to start with.  You can find more material by much more qualified people than me via google.

Have a great holiday!

-Kevin

For one microphone, choose mono.  If (for example) you have two small condensers on a piano, guitar, choir, etc, choose stereo OR two mono tracks.  

If on your mono track you eventually you put a mono to stereo effect (stereo delay, space designer, etc) Logic will automatically switch it to a stereo track.

Pete

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Brook" <bbgrove@...> wrote:

>
> I´m on holiday reading the Logic tutorial, which is excellent, and I am 
> learning a lot from it. Can recommend it to any other novices, its worth 
> every penny. 
> 
> One subject that´s not explained is when to choose mono and when stereo when 
> recording. For instance, I haven´t a clue whether it would be better to 
> record piano, vocals or bass in mono. I have always chosen stereo. Could 
> someone explain when it would be benefical to chose mono? 
> 
> Thanks in advance. 
> 
> Andy B
>

I'll take a shot at the stereo/mono question.  Consider that I'm just a musician and not much of a recording engineer.

Try to imagine the instrument you are recording and how it would sound in front of you.  For example, a violin produces (usually) one note at a time and would be coming to both of your ears from the same location.  Therefore, record a violin in mono.  Same with trumpet and other brass, string or woodwind instruments.  Same with bass.  If though, you are recording a few instruments at a time (for example real strings or a layered string patch on a keyboard), that would be several instruments spread out in front of you, that would probably be better in stereo.  

Vocals would be probably be mono, unless you wanted to introduce some left-right echo or other effects.

A real piano has its strings spread across a few feet.  If we assume you are playing a piano, the low (bass) strings are to your left and the high (treble) strings are to your right.  Therefore, stereo.  A keyboard sound (a pad for example) you probably would imagine the same way.  But consider that the strings on the piano are close - so don't make the stereo panned too wide.  Most keyboard sounds, whether piano, electric piano, strings, pads, etc., are recorded in stereo on your keyboard, and also have both L and R outputs on the back to use.

Drums might be similar to a piano, stereo spread a little.  If you are out front of the drummer (and he is right handed), the high hat would be on the right, toms on the left, bass drum in center, etc.  

If you want two instruments to sound like they are on opposite sides of the room, record them in stereo, panned wider.  

Hope that helps.  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a common method... the live band on stage thing. But a live rock 
band, has a guitar on one side and bass on the other and drums in the middle. That 
wouldn't sound good on a record. Usually bass is in the middle, drums are 
spread (kick in middle but high toms and cymbols on the sides), and guitars are 
often doubled and on both sides.

So I think in terms of balance too. I don't want a huge sound coming out of 
one side but not the other.

If you listen to the early beatles LP's they did pan things severely - like 
vocals on the left and instruments on the right. but no one does that today. 
one reason is that the bass takes a lot of energy so to get it loud, it needs to 
come out of both speakers rather than just one. also the lower and more 
elemental things like kick, snare and vocals are front and center, while the tingly 
things are dancing at the edges to give some movement.

This is why its a headache for me to record acoustic guitar in stereo. it 
seems to sound flat in mono, but it starts getting so complicated in stereo.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When you say tutorial do you mean the Getting Started Book  - or is  
there another tutorial you are doing??

Stephen Currington
Composer
Wellington, New Zealand




On 10/03/2009, at 8:27 AM, Andy Brook wrote:

> I´m on holiday reading the Logic tutorial, which is excellent, and I  
> am
> learning a lot from it. Can recommend it to any other novices, its  
> worth
> every penny.
>
> One subject that´s not explained is when to choose mono and when  
> stereo when
> recording. For instance, I haven´t a clue whether it would be better  
> to
> record piano, vocals or bass in mono. I have always chosen stereo.  
> Could
> someone explain when it would be benefical to chose mono?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Andy B
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, for what its worth I usually think about how I want to process as a means to decide. Do I want to process each side of the side of the stereo independendly or together as a pair? ie you may wish to compress/eq/take your pick/etc each mic feed of a pair differently and thus choose two separate channels. If you wish to process identically, perhaps using Time and Pitch machine, you may wish to use a stereo channel which ensures phase and pitch relationships are retained.

> 
> On 10/03/2009, at 8:27 AM, Andy Brook wrote:
> 
> > I´m on holiday reading the Logic tutorial, which is excellent, and I  
> > am
> > learning a lot from it. Can recommend it to any other novices, its  
> > worth
> > every penny.
> >
> > One subject that´s not explained is when to choose mono and when  
> > stereo when
> > recording. For instance, I haven´t a clue whether it would be better  
> > to
> > record piano, vocals or bass in mono. I have always chosen stereo.  
> > Could
> > someone explain when it would be benefical to chose mono?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Andy B
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Andy B:
I haven´t a clue whether it would be better to  record piano, vocals or bass in mono. I have always chosen stereo. Could someone explain when it would be benefical to chose mono?

If you only have one mic it´s mono and it´s simply a waste of memory to record in stereo since there is no difference. If you have a signal where you record with 2 mics, like a piano, some kinds of acoustic guitar, overheads etc you can choose to either record in stereo or two mono files. 
It all depends on how you want to treat the audiofile afterwards. Do you want the same processing on both channels and do you want them to be panned hard, stereo is the way to go. Do you want them to be processed as to different sounds choose 2 mono channels. 
There are no rules and in the end it´s not so important because it´s fairly simple to make stereo to 2Xmono and the other way around. It just takes a little time.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK!

I'm gonna approach this from a purely Logic Pro "Clinical" point of view.

Logic Pro has a Pan/Balance knob above the Fader on the Channel Strip. It's really quite simple ... you "Pan" a Mono Signal and you "Balance" a Stereo Signal (really ... it's in the manual). So, a Stereo Pad with all kinds of rich depth (different sounds for each channel of the stereo spectrum, with a smidgen of effects), when you move the Balance Knob left or right, would actually cancel out the information on the opposing side (eg. Balance Left and information on the Right goes bye bye, try it you'll like it). The purpose for the Directional Mixer Plug In, is to "Pan" Stereo Signals, so, the channel information isn't lost (by moving/mixing in the information from the right to the left or visa versa) when you want to ease the panning left or right. Panning a Mono File is more efficient (in terms of specific Mix placement)than a Stereo file.

Based on Logic's handling of Recorded Audio Tracks the answer becomes simple. Then answering a basic question about how much control you want of your "Multi" microphone(d) recorded files will determine how you actually record the file (set the inputs in the I/O and the Stereo/Mono buton). 

If you use 2 Mics on a single subject and you're worried about blending while mixing? Then 2 Mono Files.
Two Mics on a Guitar? Do you want independent EQ and Compression control? Then 2 Mono Files; not interleaved. If not? Interleaved (AKA Stereo).
One Solo Vocalist 1 Mic? Then 1 Mono File (recording in stereo just doubles the file size for no useful reason, unless of course you have lots of hard drive space and RAM, then more power to ya).
Recording a Live Choir? Well ... you get the picture :)

But, as always, if I've misunderstood the question ... NEVER MIND!

Best to all,

John Tomlinson

P.S. If you have a stand up, rinky dink, honky tonk, piano ... record it in Mono. If you have a Grand Piano, record it in Stereo ... it just sounds better :P


--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "HKC" <hkc@...> wrote:

>
> Andy B:
> I haven´t a clue whether it would be better to  record piano, vocals or bass in mono. I have always chosen stereo. Could someone explain when it would be benefical to chose mono?
> 
> If you only have one mic it´s mono and it´s simply a waste of memory to record in stereo since there is no difference. If you have a signal where you record with 2 mics, like a piano, some kinds of acoustic guitar, overheads etc you can choose to either record in stereo or two mono files. 
> It all depends on how you want to treat the audiofile afterwards. Do you want the same processing on both channels and do you want them to be panned hard, stereo is the way to go. Do you want them to be processed as to different sounds choose 2 mono channels. 
> There are no rules and in the end it´s not so important because it´s fairly simple to make stereo to 2Xmono and the other way around. It just takes a little time.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On 10 Mar 2009, at 19:31, Steve Currington wrote:

> When you say tutorial do you mean the Getting Started Book - or is
> there another tutorial you are doing??
>
Firstly, thanks for all of the replied to the question of stereo or  
mono. It is really interesting to hear similar answers but each from  
a different perspective.

To answer Steve's question, the book is the Logic Pro 8 and Logic  
Express 8  - creating and producing professional music. Its in the  
Apple Pro Training Series, and now that I have finished it it will  
completely revolutionise my work on Logic.

That is mainly down to me being an impatient musician, so - like a  
typical man - I thought I could teach myself how to use the software  
without reading the er manual. Which I could, to a very basic level.  
That said, having been messing around with Logic for a few months  
now, I was able to read the training manual cover to cover without  
looking at the software once, and I felt very confident that I had  
understood almost everything about how it works.

So I have some sympathy with the person who said "ok, I've bought it,  
now how does it work".

My answer would be read that training manual. Its 500 pages, the  
illustrations are very helpful, and there are training exercises that  
you can work on part finished songs that come with the book.

Thanks again

Andy B