QTR-Quadtone RIP

Backgound:Windows Vista, calibrated monitor, Epson 4800, modified ConeColor inkset(LK and LLK are Cone Selenium shades 4 & 5). I printed out the calibration page. Determined ink limit,etc. Selected an exisiting curve to modify to determine tone,etc. In curve creation, I modified density and limits and printed out 21 step wedge after step wedge to get a nice, evenly graduated step wedge. After many iterations,I thought I had made a good neutral curve. I pulled up an image in PS and made sure it was a greyscale tiff, gamma 2.2 image. I then opened it in QTR, selected my curve and hit print. The tone was neutral but the print was light. What did I do wrong?

You haven't mentioned linearisation - did you remove the linearisation 
figures from the existing curve and replace them with your own?

regards
Howard

On 14/09/2010 04:52, Keith wrote:
> Backgound:Windows Vista, calibrated monitor, Epson 4800, modified ConeColor inkset(LK and LLK are Cone Selenium shades 4&  5). I printed out the calibration page. Determined ink limit,etc. Selected an exisiting curve to modify to determine tone,etc. In curve creation, I modified density and limits and printed out 21 step wedge after step wedge to get a nice, evenly graduated step wedge. After many iterations,I thought I had made a good neutral curve. I pulled up an image in PS and made sure it was a greyscale tiff, gamma 2.2 image. I then opened it in QTR, selected my curve and hit print. The tone was neutral but the print was light. What did I do wrong?     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
-- 

Howard Shaw
glassman@...
www.howardshaw.org

Yes I did remove the 51 and replaced them with the 21. When I printed out the step wedge with the new linearizion numbers, the wedge, instead of a nice gradation, was now mostly black from about 100% to
70%, then the gradation was slight for the remainder. At that point I thought I had done something wrong and replaced the 21 with the original 51.
To surmise: I have printed out a step wedge with a nice gradation, took measurements(Spyder3Print), placed the numbers in the linearizion box(replacing 51 with 21) and printed out a wedge with a mostly dark gradations. What did I do wrong? What do I do next? 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:

>
>   You haven't mentioned linearisation - did you remove the linearisation 
> figures from the existing curve and replace them with your own?
> 
> regards
> Howard
> 
> On 14/09/2010 04:52, Keith wrote:
> > Backgound:Windows Vista, calibrated monitor, Epson 4800, modified ConeColor inkset(LK and LLK are Cone Selenium shades 4&  5). I printed out the calibration page. Determined ink limit,etc. Selected an exisiting curve to modify to determine tone,etc. In curve creation, I modified density and limits and printed out 21 step wedge after step wedge to get a nice, evenly graduated step wedge. After many iterations,I thought I had made a good neutral curve. I pulled up an image in PS and made sure it was a greyscale tiff, gamma 2.2 image. I then opened it in QTR, selected my curve and hit print. The tone was neutral but the print was light. What did I do wrong?     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> -- 
> 
> Howard Shaw
> glassman@...
> www.howardshaw.org
>

Keith just to be clear, you have to remove the linearization first then generate new curve, print your wedge then put the new linearzation in, then generate your final curve set. Is that what you did? mike



On 14 Sep 2010, at 16:07, "Keith" <kjrslr@...> wrote:

> Yes I did remove the 51 and replaced them with the 21. When I printed out the step wedge with the new linearizion numbers, the wedge, instead of a nice gradation, was now mostly black from about 100% to
> 70%, then the gradation was slight for the remainder. At that point I thought I had done something wrong and replaced the 21 with the original 51.
> To surmise: I have printed out a step wedge with a nice gradation, took measurements(Spyder3Print), placed the numbers in the linearizion box(replacing 51 with 21) and printed out a wedge with a mostly dark gradations. What did I do wrong? What do I do next? 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@...> wrote:
> >
> > You haven't mentioned linearisation - did you remove the linearisation 
> > figures from the existing curve and replace them with your own?
> > 
> > regards
> > Howard
> > 
> > On 14/09/2010 04:52, Keith wrote:
> > > Backgound:Windows Vista, calibrated monitor, Epson 4800, modified ConeColor inkset(LK and LLK are Cone Selenium shades 4& 5). I printed out the calibration page. Determined ink limit,etc. Selected an exisiting curve to modify to determine tone,etc. In curve creation, I modified density and limits and printed out 21 step wedge after step wedge to get a nice, evenly graduated step wedge. After many iterations,I thought I had made a good neutral curve. I pulled up an image in PS and made sure it was a greyscale tiff, gamma 2.2 image. I then opened it in QTR, selected my curve and hit print. The tone was neutral but the print was light. What did I do wrong? http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > -- 
> > 
> > Howard Shaw
> > glassman@...
> > www.howardshaw.org
> >
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here's what I did:
Printed the Calibration page(the one with all the colors).
Measured the black ink and determined max ink to be 73%.
Printed Cal page again with the ink calibration slider at 73.
Determined 100% LK was 25% of Blk and 100% LLK was 31% of LK.
Called up an existing curve to modify.
I modified the existing numbers using what I got from the above, changing the Default ink limit to 73, Blk to 100(density)/70(limit), LK to 25/70 and LLK to 31/70. I kept the limits the same from the curve I modified. I then printed out another wedge and determined that the the LLK was off(the 31) and went back to what the original LLK was(7.6/70). I kept modifying the curve and printed a wedge until I saw an even distribution of tones on the wedge. I did not change the linearization at any point until I was done. 
So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up the existing curve to modify, I should have removed the linearization first, THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the Curve Creator box, AND THEN print that(the 21 step wedge)out? Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the linearization boxes? If the strip doesn't look good, what do I modify next? 
Keith
 

 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Mike King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> Keith just to be clear, you have to remove the linearization first then generate new curve, print your wedge then put the new linearzation in, then generate your final curve set. Is that what you did? mike
> 
> 
> 
> On 14 Sep 2010, at 16:07, "Keith" <kjrslr@...> wrote:
> 
> > Yes I did remove the 51 and replaced them with the 21. When I printed out the step wedge with the new linearizion numbers, the wedge, instead of a nice gradation, was now mostly black from about 100% to
> > 70%, then the gradation was slight for the remainder. At that point I thought I had done something wrong and replaced the 21 with the original 51.
> > To surmise: I have printed out a step wedge with a nice gradation, took measurements(Spyder3Print), placed the numbers in the linearizion box(replacing 51 with 21) and printed out a wedge with a mostly dark gradations. What did I do wrong? What do I do next? 
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You haven't mentioned linearisation - did you remove the linearisation 
> > > figures from the existing curve and replace them with your own?
> > > 
> > > regards
> > > Howard
> > > 
> > > On 14/09/2010 04:52, Keith wrote:
> > > > Backgound:Windows Vista, calibrated monitor, Epson 4800, modified ConeColor inkset(LK and LLK are Cone Selenium shades 4& 5). I printed out the calibration page. Determined ink limit,etc. Selected an exisiting curve to modify to determine tone,etc. In curve creation, I modified density and limits and printed out 21 step wedge after step wedge to get a nice, evenly graduated step wedge. After many iterations,I thought I had made a good neutral curve. I pulled up an image in PS and made sure it was a greyscale tiff, gamma 2.2 image. I then opened it in QTR, selected my curve and hit print. The tone was neutral but the print was light. What did I do wrong? http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > -- 
> > > 
> > > Howard Shaw
> > > glassman@
> > > www.howardshaw.org
> > >
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Keith,

>>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up the
existing curve to modify, I should have removed the >>linearization first,

Yes

>>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the Curve
Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?

Yes

>>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
linearization boxes?

Yes

>>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?

Which strip?

So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints linear L
vs RGB value.
Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your monitor to
this print path?
Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already printed, I
would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that to soft
proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked. This gives
luminance and "colour" soft proof.

Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft proof. This will
give you approx luminance.

Mike






On 14 September 2010 20:35, Keith <kjrslr@...> wrote:

>
>
> Here's what I did:
> Printed the Calibration page(the one with all the colors).
> Measured the black ink and determined max ink to be 73%.
> Printed Cal page again with the ink calibration slider at 73.
> Determined 100% LK was 25% of Blk and 100% LLK was 31% of LK.
> Called up an existing curve to modify.
> I modified the existing numbers using what I got from the above, changing
> the Default ink limit to 73, Blk to 100(density)/70(limit), LK to 25/70 and
> LLK to 31/70. I kept the limits the same from the curve I modified. I then
> printed out another wedge and determined that the the LLK was off(the 31)
> and went back to what the original LLK was(7.6/70). I kept modifying the
> curve and printed a wedge until I saw an even distribution of tones on the
> wedge. I did not change the linearization at any point until I was done.
> So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up the
> existing curve to modify, I should have removed the linearization first,
> THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the Curve Creator
> box, AND THEN print that(the 21 step wedge)out? Do I then measure this new
> strip and put those numbers in the linearization boxes? If the strip doesn't
> look good, what do I modify next?
> Keith
>
>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>, Mike
> King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > Keith just to be clear, you have to remove the linearization first then
> generate new curve, print your wedge then put the new linearzation in, then
> generate your final curve set. Is that what you did? mike
> >
> >
> >
> > On 14 Sep 2010, at 16:07, "Keith" <kjrslr@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes I did remove the 51 and replaced them with the 21. When I printed
> out the step wedge with the new linearizion numbers, the wedge, instead of a
> nice gradation, was now mostly black from about 100% to
> > > 70%, then the gradation was slight for the remainder. At that point I
> thought I had done something wrong and replaced the 21 with the original 51.
> > > To surmise: I have printed out a step wedge with a nice gradation, took
> measurements(Spyder3Print), placed the numbers in the linearizion
> box(replacing 51 with 21) and printed out a wedge with a mostly dark
> gradations. What did I do wrong? What do I do next?
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Howard Shaw <glassman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You haven't mentioned linearisation - did you remove the
> linearisation
> > > > figures from the existing curve and replace them with your own?
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > Howard
> > > >
> > > > On 14/09/2010 04:52, Keith wrote:
> > > > > Backgound:Windows Vista, calibrated monitor, Epson 4800, modified
> ConeColor inkset(LK and LLK are Cone Selenium shades 4& 5). I printed out
> the calibration page. Determined ink limit,etc. Selected an exisiting curve
> to modify to determine tone,etc. In curve creation, I modified density and
> limits and printed out 21 step wedge after step wedge to get a nice, evenly
> graduated step wedge. After many iterations,I thought I had made a good
> neutral curve. I pulled up an image in PS and made sure it was a greyscale
> tiff, gamma 2.2 image. I then opened it in QTR, selected my curve and hit
> print. The tone was neutral but the print was light. What did I do wrong?
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Howard Shaw
> > > > glassman@
> > > > www.howardshaw.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Mike. You are being VERY helpful.
Still have questions.
First.
For the intial Calibration page I printed, I determined that max ink to be 73%. What should I have been looking for from my measurements(w/Spyder3Print spectro) Lab or density? In other words, which should I use and what change should I see, number wise? I think I used the numbers I got from density readout. 

Next, Since I determined 73 was the point, I put that into the slider and printed out a new Calibration page to get the limit for the LK which I determined was 25% of Blk.
So the Calibration page(set at 73)was printed out I read the 100% patch for LK. The reading I got for Density was .88 and L was 42.96.
I then measured Blk and found the 25% patch read Density at .88 and L was 42.81. 
Should I have printed out a 3rd Calbration page with the slider set to 25 to detrmine the LLK as I did to get the LK?
The reason I ask is that the existing curve I used had the LK at 22.8 and LLK at 7.6 where as what I measured I got for LK was 25% but LLK was 31%, but I only printed out just the 2 calibration pages(the 1st and then 73%). Because the 31% seemed too high(compared the existing curve) I wondered if I should have printed a 3rd page for determining the % of LLK from LK. Do you follow my question?  

To answer your question as to which strip, I'm refering to the one printed out(following the instuctions you mention)after I put in the numbers from the Calibration page(which determine ink limits).

You're answering a lot Mike, please keep it up!  

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Keith,
> 
> >>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up the
> existing curve to modify, I should have removed the >>linearization first,
> 
> Yes
> 
> >>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the Curve
> Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?
> 
> Yes
> 
> >>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
> linearization boxes?
> 
> Yes
> 
> >>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?
> 
> Which strip?
> 
> So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints linear L
> vs RGB value.
> Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your monitor to
> this print path?
> Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already printed, I
> would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that to soft
> proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked. This gives
> luminance and "colour" soft proof.
> 
> Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft proof. This will
> give you approx luminance.
> 
> Mike

Keith,

go off and read this and then if you have further questions come back and
ask...

http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf

<http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf>Mike

On 14 September 2010 21:49, Keith <kjrslr@...> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks Mike. You are being VERY helpful.
> Still have questions.
> First.
> For the intial Calibration page I printed, I determined that max ink to be
> 73%. What should I have been looking for from my measurements(w/Spyder3Print
> spectro) Lab or density? In other words, which should I use and what change
> should I see, number wise? I think I used the numbers I got from density
> readout.
>
> Next, Since I determined 73 was the point, I put that into the slider and
> printed out a new Calibration page to get the limit for the LK which I
> determined was 25% of Blk.
> So the Calibration page(set at 73)was printed out I read the 100% patch for
> LK. The reading I got for Density was .88 and L was 42.96.
> I then measured Blk and found the 25% patch read Density at .88 and L was
> 42.81.
> Should I have printed out a 3rd Calbration page with the slider set to 25
> to detrmine the LLK as I did to get the LK?
> The reason I ask is that the existing curve I used had the LK at 22.8 and
> LLK at 7.6 where as what I measured I got for LK was 25% but LLK was 31%,
> but I only printed out just the 2 calibration pages(the 1st and then 73%).
> Because the 31% seemed too high(compared the existing curve) I wondered if I
> should have printed a 3rd page for determining the % of LLK from LK. Do you
> follow my question?
>
> To answer your question as to which strip, I'm refering to the one printed
> out(following the instuctions you mention)after I put in the numbers from
> the Calibration page(which determine ink limits).
>
> You're answering a lot Mike, please keep it up!
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Keith,
> >
> > >>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up the
> > existing curve to modify, I should have removed the >>linearization
> first,
> >
> > Yes
> >
> > >>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the Curve
> > Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?
> >
> > Yes
> >
> > >>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
> > linearization boxes?
> >
> > Yes
> >
> > >>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?
> >
> > Which strip?
> >
> > So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints linear
> L
> > vs RGB value.
> > Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your monitor
> to
> > this print path?
> > Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already printed,
> I
> > would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that to soft
> > proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked. This gives
> > luminance and "colour" soft proof.
> >
> > Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft proof. This
> will
> > give you approx luminance.
> >
> > Mike
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have this printed out and have read it but....
First, this is Mac centric. I'm on a PC.
Second, he used ProfileMaker Pro using an EyeOne(?). I have the Spyder3Print spectro.
Third, he talks of going into PS when you hit the print button. When I open QTR>Tools>Options>Calibration Mode, the Ink Pattern Page is shown. When I hit print, it prints the page and I'm assuming that since it is printing without PS running, it is not color managed.
Since I printed through QTR(no PS involved) I printed out the pages as I previously outlined, so it answered my own question about whether a 3rd one was needed. 
Following into step 9 and doing the math, I multiplied the LK(25%) by the LLK(31%) which gave me .0775 for the LLK number. Does this sound low?
In his second step 9 he says to use a text editor to open up the appropriate raw curve. This is where it looses me becuase it says that there are 4 raw curves from which to pick. Going into Program Files>QuadToneRip>Profiles>4800> I see three types of files. .amp, .raw, and .qidf. I see cool, coolse, sepia, warm. 
 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> Keith,
> 
> go off and read this and then if you have further questions come back and
> ask...
> 
> http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf
> 
> <http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf>Mike
> 
> On 14 September 2010 21:49, Keith <kjrslr@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Thanks Mike. You are being VERY helpful.
> > Still have questions.
> > First.
> > For the intial Calibration page I printed, I determined that max ink to be
> > 73%. What should I have been looking for from my measurements(w/Spyder3Print
> > spectro) Lab or density? In other words, which should I use and what change
> > should I see, number wise? I think I used the numbers I got from density
> > readout.
> >
> > Next, Since I determined 73 was the point, I put that into the slider and
> > printed out a new Calibration page to get the limit for the LK which I
> > determined was 25% of Blk.
> > So the Calibration page(set at 73)was printed out I read the 100% patch for
> > LK. The reading I got for Density was .88 and L was 42.96.
> > I then measured Blk and found the 25% patch read Density at .88 and L was
> > 42.81.
> > Should I have printed out a 3rd Calbration page with the slider set to 25
> > to detrmine the LLK as I did to get the LK?
> > The reason I ask is that the existing curve I used had the LK at 22.8 and
> > LLK at 7.6 where as what I measured I got for LK was 25% but LLK was 31%,
> > but I only printed out just the 2 calibration pages(the 1st and then 73%).
> > Because the 31% seemed too high(compared the existing curve) I wondered if I
> > should have printed a 3rd page for determining the % of LLK from LK. Do you
> > follow my question?
> >
> > To answer your question as to which strip, I'm refering to the one printed
> > out(following the instuctions you mention)after I put in the numbers from
> > the Calibration page(which determine ink limits).
> >
> > You're answering a lot Mike, please keep it up!
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Keith,
> > >
> > > >>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up the
> > > existing curve to modify, I should have removed the >>linearization
> > first,
> > >
> > > Yes
> > >
> > > >>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the Curve
> > > Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?
> > >
> > > Yes
> > >
> > > >>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
> > > linearization boxes?
> > >
> > > Yes
> > >
> > > >>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?
> > >
> > > Which strip?
> > >
> > > So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints linear
> > L
> > > vs RGB value.
> > > Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your monitor
> > to
> > > this print path?
> > > Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already printed,
> > I
> > > would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that to soft
> > > proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked. This gives
> > > luminance and "colour" soft proof.
> > >
> > > Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft proof. This
> > will
> > > give you approx luminance.
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On 14 September 2010 23:05, Keith <kjrslr@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have this printed out and have read it but....
> First, this is Mac centric. I'm on a PC.
> Second, he used ProfileMaker Pro using an EyeOne(?). I have the
> Spyder3Print spectro.
> Third, he talks of going into PS when you hit the print button. When I open
> QTR>Tools>Options>Calibration Mode, the Ink Pattern Page is shown. When I
> hit print, it prints the page and I'm assuming that since it is printing
> without PS running, it is not color managed.
> Since I printed through QTR(no PS involved) I printed out the pages as I
> previously outlined, so it answered my own question about whether a 3rd one
> was needed.
> Following into step 9 and doing the math, I multiplied the LK(25%) by the
> LLK(31%) which gave me .0775 for the LLK number. Does this sound low?
>
No 7.75% seems about right to me. But you need to enter it as 7.75% no
0.0775

> In his second step 9 he says to use a text editor to open up the
> appropriate raw curve. This is where it looses me becuase it says that there
> are 4 raw curves from which to pick. Going into Program
> Files>QuadToneRip>Profiles>4800> I see three types of files. .amp, .raw, and
> .qidf. I see cool, coolse, sepia, warm.
>
.qidf.  =  cool, coolse, sepia, warm.  are the 4 curves. But you can use the
windows GUI that you have been using rather than editing the text file
directly. If you want to view the qidf file use wordpad. To do this put a
short cut to wordpad on your desktop and drop the qidf file on it....

Mike

>
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > Keith,
> >
> > go off and read this and then if you have further questions come back and
> > ask...
> >
> > http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf
> >
> > <http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf>Mike
> >
> > On 14 September 2010 21:49, Keith <kjrslr@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike. You are being VERY helpful.
> > > Still have questions.
> > > First.
> > > For the intial Calibration page I printed, I determined that max ink to
> be
> > > 73%. What should I have been looking for from my
> measurements(w/Spyder3Print
> > > spectro) Lab or density? In other words, which should I use and what
> change
> > > should I see, number wise? I think I used the numbers I got from
> density
> > > readout.
> > >
> > > Next, Since I determined 73 was the point, I put that into the slider
> and
> > > printed out a new Calibration page to get the limit for the LK which I
> > > determined was 25% of Blk.
> > > So the Calibration page(set at 73)was printed out I read the 100% patch
> for
> > > LK. The reading I got for Density was .88 and L was 42.96.
> > > I then measured Blk and found the 25% patch read Density at .88 and L
> was
> > > 42.81.
> > > Should I have printed out a 3rd Calbration page with the slider set to
> 25
> > > to detrmine the LLK as I did to get the LK?
> > > The reason I ask is that the existing curve I used had the LK at 22.8
> and
> > > LLK at 7.6 where as what I measured I got for LK was 25% but LLK was
> 31%,
> > > but I only printed out just the 2 calibration pages(the 1st and then
> 73%).
> > > Because the 31% seemed too high(compared the existing curve) I wondered
> if I
> > > should have printed a 3rd page for determining the % of LLK from LK. Do
> you
> > > follow my question?
> > >
> > > To answer your question as to which strip, I'm refering to the one
> printed
> > > out(following the instuctions you mention)after I put in the numbers
> from
> > > the Calibration page(which determine ink limits).
> > >
> > > You're answering a lot Mike, please keep it up!
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Keith,
> > > >
> > > > >>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up
> the
> > > > existing curve to modify, I should have removed the >>linearization
> > > first,
> > > >
> > > > Yes
> > > >
> > > > >>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the
> Curve
> > > > Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?
> > > >
> > > > Yes
> > > >
> > > > >>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
> > > > linearization boxes?
> > > >
> > > > Yes
> > > >
> > > > >>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?
> > > >
> > > > Which strip?
> > > >
> > > > So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints
> linear
> > > L
> > > > vs RGB value.
> > > > Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your
> monitor
> > > to
> > > > this print path?
> > > > Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already
> printed,
> > > I
> > > > would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that to
> soft
> > > > proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked. This
> gives
> > > > luminance and "colour" soft proof.
> > > >
> > > > Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft proof.
> This
> > > will
> > > > give you approx luminance.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Once again Mike, thank you for your patience!
With the info that you you provided, I went back and remeasured the Cal page and determined that a new value was needed and printed out a new 2nd page and measured that. Much quicker this time around!
But going back to the profile folder, I realised that the curves I was using(as a basis for modifing)are for matte papers using MK inks. I'm using PK on photo type papers(Innova Fiba Print Semi Matte). So my question once again is about the profiles. Other than the .qidf files(which are all listed for matte(MK) papers the other files are .amp and .raw. Do you know what those are for?
Again from the workflow you provided:
"Two sets are provided; one for matte papers and one for glossy  media. Each set contains four tints: cool, neutral, warm
and sepia. Begin with the neutral curve. Later you will create a separate custom curve for each remaining tint.
*If your printer model contains no raw curves, choose a neutral curve for an existing paper that is similar in characteristics
to the paper you wish to calibrate, taking care that the appropriate ink type (pk or mk) is chosen."

I do not see two types, only matte. I'm assuming that(in the folder)coolse is the neutral curve. All of the curves listed with TC-***.amp(or.raw) are listed twice, one with PS(in the icon) and one without.
All I'm trying to figure out which curve I should start with to modify. 

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> > are 4 raw curves from which to pick. Going into Program
> > Files>QuadToneRip>Profiles>4800> I see three types of files. .amp, .raw, and
> > .qidf. I see cool, coolse, sepia, warm.
> >
> .qidf.  =  cool, coolse, sepia, warm.  are the 4 curves. But you can use the
> windows GUI that you have been using rather than editing the text file
> directly. If you want to view the qidf file use wordpad. To do this put a
> short cut to wordpad on your desktop and drop the qidf file on it....
> 
> Mike
> 
> >
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Keith,
> > >
> > > go off and read this and then if you have further questions come back and
> > > ask...
> > >
> > > http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf
> > >
> > > <http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf>Mike
> > >
> > > On 14 September 2010 21:49, Keith <kjrslr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mike. You are being VERY helpful.
> > > > Still have questions.
> > > > First.
> > > > For the intial Calibration page I printed, I determined that max ink to
> > be
> > > > 73%. What should I have been looking for from my
> > measurements(w/Spyder3Print
> > > > spectro) Lab or density? In other words, which should I use and what
> > change
> > > > should I see, number wise? I think I used the numbers I got from
> > density
> > > > readout.
> > > >
> > > > Next, Since I determined 73 was the point, I put that into the slider
> > and
> > > > printed out a new Calibration page to get the limit for the LK which I
> > > > determined was 25% of Blk.
> > > > So the Calibration page(set at 73)was printed out I read the 100% patch
> > for
> > > > LK. The reading I got for Density was .88 and L was 42.96.
> > > > I then measured Blk and found the 25% patch read Density at .88 and L
> > was
> > > > 42.81.
> > > > Should I have printed out a 3rd Calbration page with the slider set to
> > 25
> > > > to detrmine the LLK as I did to get the LK?
> > > > The reason I ask is that the existing curve I used had the LK at 22.8
> > and
> > > > LLK at 7.6 where as what I measured I got for LK was 25% but LLK was
> > 31%,
> > > > but I only printed out just the 2 calibration pages(the 1st and then
> > 73%).
> > > > Because the 31% seemed too high(compared the existing curve) I wondered
> > if I
> > > > should have printed a 3rd page for determining the % of LLK from LK. Do
> > you
> > > > follow my question?
> > > >
> > > > To answer your question as to which strip, I'm refering to the one
> > printed
> > > > out(following the instuctions you mention)after I put in the numbers
> > from
> > > > the Calibration page(which determine ink limits).
> > > >
> > > > You're answering a lot Mike, please keep it up!
> > > >
> > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Keith,
> > > > >
> > > > > >>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called up
> > the
> > > > > existing curve to modify, I should have removed the >>linearization
> > > > first,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes
> > > > >
> > > > > >>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the
> > Curve
> > > > > Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes
> > > > >
> > > > > >>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
> > > > > linearization boxes?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes
> > > > >
> > > > > >>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?
> > > > >
> > > > > Which strip?
> > > > >
> > > > > So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints
> > linear
> > > > L
> > > > > vs RGB value.
> > > > > Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your
> > monitor
> > > > to
> > > > > this print path?
> > > > > Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already
> > printed,
> > > > I
> > > > > would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that to
> > soft
> > > > > proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked. This
> > gives
> > > > > luminance and "colour" soft proof.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft proof.
> > This
> > > > will
> > > > > give you approx luminance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On 15 September 2010 17:04, Keith <kjrslr@...> wrote:

>
>
> Once again Mike, thank you for your patience!
> With the info that you you provided, I went back and remeasured the Cal
> page and determined that a new value was needed and printed out a new 2nd
> page and measured that. Much quicker this time around!
> But going back to the profile folder, I realised that the curves I was
> using(as a basis for modifing)are for matte papers using MK inks. I'm using
> PK on photo type papers(Innova Fiba Print Semi Matte). So my question once
> again is about the profiles. Other than the .qidf files(which are all listed
> for matte(MK) papers the other files are .amp and .raw. Do you know what
> those are for?
>
No idea what they are for.

Yes they aren't any PK profiles for 4800 by the looks of it.

So you either;
a) ask if anyone else has one you can start from..
b) take one from another printer as a starting point but you need the same
ink channel mapping
c) start with MK one and change MK for PK curve.

I honestly don't know much more about this as I'm a B&W inkset MK only
printer.
Haven't studied what's need to create colour curves.

Good luck,

Mike

> Again from the workflow you provided:
> "Two sets are provided; one for matte papers and one for glossy media. Each
> set contains four tints: cool, neutral, warm
> and sepia. Begin with the neutral curve. Later you will create a separate
> custom curve for each remaining tint.
> *If your printer model contains no raw curves, choose a neutral curve for
> an existing paper that is similar in characteristics
> to the paper you wish to calibrate, taking care that the appropriate ink
> type (pk or mk) is chosen."
>
> I do not see two types, only matte. I'm assuming that(in the folder)coolse
> is the neutral curve. All of the curves listed with TC-***.amp(or.raw) are
> listed twice, one with PS(in the icon) and one without.
> All I'm trying to figure out which curve I should start with to modify.
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
> >
> > > are 4 raw curves from which to pick. Going into Program
> > > Files>QuadToneRip>Profiles>4800> I see three types of files. .amp,
> .raw, and
> > > .qidf. I see cool, coolse, sepia, warm.
> > >
> > .qidf. = cool, coolse, sepia, warm. are the 4 curves. But you can use the
> > windows GUI that you have been using rather than editing the text file
> > directly. If you want to view the qidf file use wordpad. To do this put a
> > short cut to wordpad on your desktop and drop the qidf file on it....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Keith,
> > > >
> > > > go off and read this and then if you have further questions come back
> and
> > > > ask...
> > > >
> > > > http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf>Mike
> > > >
> > > > On 14 September 2010 21:49, Keith <kjrslr@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mike. You are being VERY helpful.
> > > > > Still have questions.
> > > > > First.
> > > > > For the intial Calibration page I printed, I determined that max
> ink to
> > > be
> > > > > 73%. What should I have been looking for from my
> > > measurements(w/Spyder3Print
> > > > > spectro) Lab or density? In other words, which should I use and
> what
> > > change
> > > > > should I see, number wise? I think I used the numbers I got from
> > > density
> > > > > readout.
> > > > >
> > > > > Next, Since I determined 73 was the point, I put that into the
> slider
> > > and
> > > > > printed out a new Calibration page to get the limit for the LK
> which I
> > > > > determined was 25% of Blk.
> > > > > So the Calibration page(set at 73)was printed out I read the 100%
> patch
> > > for
> > > > > LK. The reading I got for Density was .88 and L was 42.96.
> > > > > I then measured Blk and found the 25% patch read Density at .88 and
> L
> > > was
> > > > > 42.81.
> > > > > Should I have printed out a 3rd Calbration page with the slider set
> to
> > > 25
> > > > > to detrmine the LLK as I did to get the LK?
> > > > > The reason I ask is that the existing curve I used had the LK at
> 22.8
> > > and
> > > > > LLK at 7.6 where as what I measured I got for LK was 25% but LLK
> was
> > > 31%,
> > > > > but I only printed out just the 2 calibration pages(the 1st and
> then
> > > 73%).
> > > > > Because the 31% seemed too high(compared the existing curve) I
> wondered
> > > if I
> > > > > should have printed a 3rd page for determining the % of LLK from
> LK. Do
> > > you
> > > > > follow my question?
> > > > >
> > > > > To answer your question as to which strip, I'm refering to the one
> > > printed
> > > > > out(following the instuctions you mention)after I put in the
> numbers
> > > from
> > > > > the Calibration page(which determine ink limits).
> > > > >
> > > > > You're answering a lot Mike, please keep it up!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> 40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
>
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > >
> > > > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Keith,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called
> up
> > > the
> > > > > > existing curve to modify, I should have removed the
> >>linearization
> > > > > first,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the
> > > Curve
> > > > > > Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
> > > > > > linearization boxes?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which strip?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints
> > > linear
> > > > > L
> > > > > > vs RGB value.
> > > > > > Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your
> > > monitor
> > > > > to
> > > > > > this print path?
> > > > > > Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already
> > > printed,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that
> to
> > > soft
> > > > > > proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked.
> This
> > > gives
> > > > > > luminance and "colour" soft proof.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft
> proof.
> > > This
> > > > > will
> > > > > > give you approx luminance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Once again, Thank you Mike and the rest that have helped me along. After gaining some in-site and clarifying a few things, I finally created a curve that, when printed through QTR, yielded a print that pretty much matched what I had on the screen. I feel like I passed a major test. Now I have to apply it to a few images.
Anyone know about creating multiple curves for split toning.....?

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> On 15 September 2010 17:04, Keith <kjrslr@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Once again Mike, thank you for your patience!
> > With the info that you you provided, I went back and remeasured the Cal
> > page and determined that a new value was needed and printed out a new 2nd
> > page and measured that. Much quicker this time around!
> > But going back to the profile folder, I realised that the curves I was
> > using(as a basis for modifing)are for matte papers using MK inks. I'm using
> > PK on photo type papers(Innova Fiba Print Semi Matte). So my question once
> > again is about the profiles. Other than the .qidf files(which are all listed
> > for matte(MK) papers the other files are .amp and .raw. Do you know what
> > those are for?
> >
> No idea what they are for.
> 
> Yes they aren't any PK profiles for 4800 by the looks of it.
> 
> So you either;
> a) ask if anyone else has one you can start from..
> b) take one from another printer as a starting point but you need the same
> ink channel mapping
> c) start with MK one and change MK for PK curve.
> 
> I honestly don't know much more about this as I'm a B&W inkset MK only
> printer.
> Haven't studied what's need to create colour curves.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Mike
> 
> > Again from the workflow you provided:
> > "Two sets are provided; one for matte papers and one for glossy media. Each
> > set contains four tints: cool, neutral, warm
> > and sepia. Begin with the neutral curve. Later you will create a separate
> > custom curve for each remaining tint.
> > *If your printer model contains no raw curves, choose a neutral curve for
> > an existing paper that is similar in characteristics
> > to the paper you wish to calibrate, taking care that the appropriate ink
> > type (pk or mk) is chosen."
> >
> > I do not see two types, only matte. I'm assuming that(in the folder)coolse
> > is the neutral curve. All of the curves listed with TC-***.amp(or.raw) are
> > listed twice, one with PS(in the icon) and one without.
> > All I'm trying to figure out which curve I should start with to modify.
> >
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > are 4 raw curves from which to pick. Going into Program
> > > > Files>QuadToneRip>Profiles>4800> I see three types of files. .amp,
> > .raw, and
> > > > .qidf. I see cool, coolse, sepia, warm.
> > > >
> > > .qidf. = cool, coolse, sepia, warm. are the 4 curves. But you can use the
> > > windows GUI that you have been using rather than editing the text file
> > > directly. If you want to view the qidf file use wordpad. To do this put a
> > > short cut to wordpad on your desktop and drop the qidf file on it....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Keith,
> > > > >
> > > > > go off and read this and then if you have further questions come back
> > and
> > > > > ask...
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://www.diallophotography.com/pdfs/QTRworkflow.pdf>Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > On 14 September 2010 21:49, Keith <kjrslr@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mike. You are being VERY helpful.
> > > > > > Still have questions.
> > > > > > First.
> > > > > > For the intial Calibration page I printed, I determined that max
> > ink to
> > > > be
> > > > > > 73%. What should I have been looking for from my
> > > > measurements(w/Spyder3Print
> > > > > > spectro) Lab or density? In other words, which should I use and
> > what
> > > > change
> > > > > > should I see, number wise? I think I used the numbers I got from
> > > > density
> > > > > > readout.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Next, Since I determined 73 was the point, I put that into the
> > slider
> > > > and
> > > > > > printed out a new Calibration page to get the limit for the LK
> > which I
> > > > > > determined was 25% of Blk.
> > > > > > So the Calibration page(set at 73)was printed out I read the 100%
> > patch
> > > > for
> > > > > > LK. The reading I got for Density was .88 and L was 42.96.
> > > > > > I then measured Blk and found the 25% patch read Density at .88 and
> > L
> > > > was
> > > > > > 42.81.
> > > > > > Should I have printed out a 3rd Calbration page with the slider set
> > to
> > > > 25
> > > > > > to detrmine the LLK as I did to get the LK?
> > > > > > The reason I ask is that the existing curve I used had the LK at
> > 22.8
> > > > and
> > > > > > LLK at 7.6 where as what I measured I got for LK was 25% but LLK
> > was
> > > > 31%,
> > > > > > but I only printed out just the 2 calibration pages(the 1st and
> > then
> > > > 73%).
> > > > > > Because the 31% seemed too high(compared the existing curve) I
> > wondered
> > > > if I
> > > > > > should have printed a 3rd page for determining the % of LLK from
> > LK. Do
> > > > you
> > > > > > follow my question?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To answer your question as to which strip, I'm refering to the one
> > > > printed
> > > > > > out(following the instuctions you mention)after I put in the
> > numbers
> > > > from
> > > > > > the Calibration page(which determine ink limits).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're answering a lot Mike, please keep it up!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <QuadtoneRIP%40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><QuadtoneRIP%
> >
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > >
> > > > > > Michael King <drmrking@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Keith,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>So correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that when I called
> > up
> > > > the
> > > > > > > existing curve to modify, I should have removed the
> > >>linearization
> > > > > > first,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>THEN added the numbers I got from the ink calibration into the
> > > > Curve
> > > > > > > Creator box, AND THEN print that(the >>21 step wedge)out?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>Do I then measure this new strip and put those numbers in the
> > > > > > > linearization boxes?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>If the strip doesn't >>look good, what do I modify next?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Which strip?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So after the above, you effectively have a print path that prints
> > > > linear
> > > > > > L
> > > > > > > vs RGB value.
> > > > > > > Now the question is how are you going to map what you see on your
> > > > monitor
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this print path?
> > > > > > > Since you have a spectro and the final linerized target already
> > > > printed,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > would suggest that you create an QTR RGB ICC profile and use that
> > to
> > > > soft
> > > > > > > proof your images in photoshop - with preserve values checked.
> > This
> > > > gives
> > > > > > > luminance and "colour" soft proof.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also you can use one of the ICCs in QuadToneRIP/icc to soft
> > proof.
> > > > This
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > give you approx luminance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>