QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi all�
Does anybody have an opinion on the differences between pigment and dye based inks in the production of digital negs apart from the fade resistance issues?�

Many thanks in advance

Mark,

My recollection from what I have read (please don't ask for the reference, have no recollection where I saw it) the dye inks are preferable.

In saying this I use pigment, as that is what I have in my printer.  Also use photo black, PK, rather than matt black, MK.

Will try and see if I can find any references tomorrow.  

Jim Thyer

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: markjoste 
  To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:59 PM
  Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Ink choice for producing digital negatives


    
  Hi all 
  Does anybody have an opinion on the differences between pigment and dye based inks in the production of digital negs apart from the fade resistance issues? 

  Many thanks in advance



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can't say about dye inks but the pigment inks for Epson printers work fine. I'm using the 3800's K3 inks but I know of others who are using the newer Epson printers with Vivid Magenta without a problem. Are you planning to make silver contact prints or are going to be doing alt process work such as platinum/palladium, cyanotype, van dyke, ziatype, etc.?

Bill
--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "markjoste" <markjoste@...> wrote:

>
> Hi all 
> Does anybody have an opinion on the differences between pigment and dye based inks in the production of digital negs apart from the fade resistance issues? 
> 
> Many thanks in advance
>

Mark,

Following up, have located some notes from a digital neg workshop.

Comments in my notes:

Pigment is harder for digital negs.
Cheap dye printers work fine. 
Photo printers use more inks for smoother tonal graduations and sometimes a wider colour gamut

So basically not a problem.

Jim Thyer

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: markjoste 
  To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:59 PM
  Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Ink choice for producing digital negatives


    
  Hi all 
  Does anybody have an opinion on the differences between pigment and dye based inks in the production of digital negs apart from the fade resistance issues? 

  Many thanks in advance



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Many thanks for your replies

In response to the question
"Are you planning to make silver contact prints or are going to be doing alt process work such as platinum/palladium, cyanotype, van dyke, ziatype, etc.?"

I'm planning to start with silver prints but further down the pine would like to try other processes. 

Many thanks

Mark

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They both work fine, but in my experience pigment inks are more fragile on the very thin receptive surface of OHP film. Take care not to wipe them off with your hands and they'll be fine. Dye based inks seem to be more robust and can deal with more handling. Both make excellent negatives.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "markjoste" <markjoste@...> wrote:

>
> Hi all 
> Does anybody have an opinion on the differences between pigment and dye based inks in the production of digital negs apart from the fade resistance issues? 
> 
> Many thanks in advance
>

If you can wipe the ink off with your hand or fingers then you most definitely have an ink set that doesn't play well with the transparency substrate your are using. This reminds me of the old MIS pigmented inks.

Inks should dry quickly and not be smudged with normal handling.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ebenostby" <efo@...> wrote:

>
> They both work fine, but in my experience pigment inks are more fragile on the very thin receptive surface of OHP film. Take care not to wipe them off with your hands and they'll be fine. Dye based inks seem to be more robust and can deal with more handling. 

>

Mark,

If you have an Epson 2400 or 2880, I have a turn-key system for digital negatives using a subset of the Piezography inkset for Pictorico. It includes 5 curves that cover the entire range of darkroom papers by density. Piezography Digital Film is density based rather than UV based like color ink systems. We don't have any of the "venetian blinds" issues or banding as a result. Clean highlights in the silver prints without dots, etc...

You do not need to use PDN with Piezography Digital Film unless you wish to. It is compatible with it, but only the curves calculator portion of PDN (which is the PDN module that automates making curves in Photoshop). Because Piezography Digital Film is already linear, the curves calculator will only make creative contrasts which you could do on your own in PS. As is my system makes proper prints.

here is a link to a brief white paper on it:

http://shopping.netsuite.com/c.362672/site/Piezography-digital-film.html

Use Methodology 3 for silver prints. Meth 1 is for Alt-Process requiring density in the film greater than 2.0.  SIlver needs only 1.50 - 1.80. I use the 1.60 curve for Ilford Multigrade RC and fiber base. 

Piezography Selenium ink is a pigment that adheres and dries strongly on Pictorico. I realize your question may be directed at using color dye or color pigment. This is another possibility that you may not have thought of. When I made the Digital Film system, I wanted to imitate continuous-tone silver film. So the negs my system makes, look like and perform like silver film. You contact print them. They are strong enough to be stored and re-used.

regards,

Jon Cone

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Mark <markjoste@...> wrote:

>
> Many thanks for your replies
> 
> In response to the question
> "Are you planning to make silver contact prints or are going to be doing alt process work such as platinum/palladium, cyanotype, van dyke, ziatype, etc.?"
> 
> I'm planning to start with silver prints but further down the pine would like to try other processes. 
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Mark
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Pigment inks will give you the tonal range and density you will need - Pictorico OHP film takes them well - be sure to turn hi speed off- in the Epson driver - use  unidirectional in the QTR - set up - give the neg a good hour to dry (no hair drier!!!) or more  if you can before printing  - slip sheet it with clean paper - handle with care - just as you would a silver process neg.  Best ink and profiles that I have used have been the K-7  transparency inkset from Inkjetmall - details on the process are at their blog.

Berel Lutsky
Associate Professor of Art
University of Wisconsin - Manitowoc
blutsky@...<mailto:blutsky@...>
920-683-4735
Fax: 920-683-4776
"Sometimes our ideas of history look more like neurosis than an appetite for understanding ...."
Charles  Bowden



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hair dryers have been employed for a long time by those using inkjet negatives, though I just usually let mine cure for 24 hrs when possible.