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here's a stupid question....

here's a stupid question....

2005-08-25 by Gary Chang

I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but am looking
for a way to transpose the sequencer's output in real time via MIDI. 

I have used the Xpose parameter, changing numerically the value, which
yielded favorable results, but I wish to transpose several sequencers
at once (in addition to the P3), via one master keyboard, while
triggering envelopes to fade the whole sequencing mess in...  

What am I overlooking?

Thanks in advance!

Gary

RE: [analogue-sequencer] here's a stupid question....

2005-08-25 by Colin f

Hi Gary, 

> I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but am looking
> for a way to transpose the sequencer's output in real time via MIDI. 

This can be done at the moment, but using a roundabout method not for the
faint hearted.
 
Transposition from an attached keyboard will be implemented as part of the
remote control features, hopefully in the next release. Oddly enough,
no-one's really pestered me for this before.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Re: here's a stupid question....

2005-08-26 by Gary Chang

"Colin f" <colin@c...> wrote:

> This can be done at the moment, but using a roundabout method not
for the
> faint hearted.
>  
> Transposition from an attached keyboard will be implemented as part
of the
> remote control features, hopefully in the next release. Oddly
enough,
> no-one's really pestered me for this before.

Although there is something very clear and uncomplicated in the P3's
structure to not have a midi keyboard's pitch reference in play (with
a master keyboard transposing the P3, one is constantly reading pitch
sets in the sequencer that are playing different pitches than
displayed, due to an offsetting pitch transposition from the keyboard
reference), I often use devices like the P3 (or the Schaltwerk) as a
pattern creator amidst a larger system.

For one project a few years ago, I used the Shaltwerk to create
tremelos, using 4 Waldorf Pulses each trilling between a pair of
pitches that outlined a chord.  After storing several different chords
in the sequencer memory, the sequencer was clocked from the
Synclavier, which was the master sequencer and clock source for that
particular piece of music.  The tremolos were then patched throught a
Waldorf Wave's external inputs, where the keyboard, when played, faded
the tremelo texture in and out while also providing the reference
pitch for the event.  This way, I could use the texture at will with
the orchestra, allowing the player to match key center and harmonic
ocntent on the fly...  While doing that, all performance data could be
recorded and played back from the Synclavier's sequencer, which was
simply recording the activity on the master keyboard....

I would love to see a switchable feature, allowing the midi keyboard
to 

1). be ignored (as it is now), 

2). the master reference, with OFFSET (when enabling the Schaltwerk to
transpose from the keyboard, it simply added the pitch to the
sequence, so when you created patterns that you liked first, and then
attached the keyboard to transpose, the result was always one or two
octaves higher than the desired result).  In the P3, perhaps simply
making middle c the position of zero transpose would solve that. 
Being able to select exactly which pitch is zero transpose is really
handy, though.  I guess that what I am saying is that the environment
for creating patterns may be different from performing - I may be
sitting with Reason writing patterns, then, when producing the stuff,
I will have the P3 controlling a modular synth, and when I finally
hook up a master midi pitch reference, it would be nice to play a C
and tell the P3 that this is the zero transpose reference....

Gary

Re: here's a stupid question....

2005-08-26 by ferrograph632

>>I feel like I must be missing something obvious here, but am looking
for a way to transpose the sequencer's output in real time via MIDI. I
have used the Xpose parameter, changing numerically the value....<<

gary, have you tried this?: set your p3 up as you have been doing, so
that all the bits you want to transpose are going to be transposed by,
say, track 8. then set the length of a pattern in track 8 to one step.
then put it into live-record mode. hey presto. you can transpose using
 the keyboard. oh, & track 8 is muted while all this is going on.

I use a variation of this technique whereby only some of the notes on
the other tracks get transposed, so that the overall "key" (I use the
term loosely) of a composition is dragged around by what I'm playing
on the keyboard. sometimes I might use more than one step, or arpeggio
mode.... I play chords on track 8's channel, which pass through the p3
& are heard, but are also recorded into a pattern on track 8 as an
arpeggio (which isn't heard) for the other tracks to pinch notes
from... you get the idea.

what I'd like colin to add is not just a master midi-transpose, but
something that can also alter the scale that everything is FTS'd to-
PC to select user-scales? then, using the two together, you'd be able
to effect genuine key changes.
you'll know what I mean if you've ever "transposed" a maq- it just
adds or subtracts the same number of semitones from each note, which
isn't very musical. at least the p3 forces the new notes to adhere to
the same scale, but sometimes that's not quite right for a piece either.

d.

Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: here's a stupid question....

2005-08-26 by Paul Nagle

ferrograph632 wrote:

>you'll know what I mean if you've ever "transposed" a maq- it just
>adds or subtracts the same number of semitones from each note, which
>isn't very musical. at least the p3 forces the new notes to adhere to
>the same scale, but sometimes that's not quite right for a piece either.
>  
>
I love the idea of a "transpose channel" incorporated with Gary's 
suggestion where you get keyboard zones mappable to select scale, scale 
root, part transposition, scale select. Also, I'd love the P3 to 
transmit its scales so that a second, slaved P3, perhaps played by a 
second musician, could follow perfectly any key change made by the master.

Ah, Colin, isn't this P3 enthusiasm totally infectious? Doesn't it just 
make you want to start coding right away?

:)

Paul

---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music / Bogus Focus Records / Binar / Headshock / The Joint Intelligence Committee
        www.softroom.co.uk / www.BogusFocus.com / www.JointIntelligenceCommittee.com

transpose channel...

2005-08-26 by Gary Chang

thanks, d, for the suggestion - it is very much like the transpose
situation in the Schaltwerk, using channel 8 (also very similar to the
MAQ).  With this implemented, I can use the P3 in place of the
Schaltwerk in most cases. 8^)

Re: here's a stupid question....

2005-08-26 by Gary Chang

Paul Nagle <softroom@b...> wrote:

> >
> I love the idea of a "transpose channel" incorporated with Gary's 
> suggestion where you get keyboard zones mappable to select scale, scale 
> root, part transposition, scale select. Also, I'd love the P3 to 
> transmit its scales so that a second, slaved P3, perhaps played by a 
> second musician, could follow perfectly any key change made by the
master.


I have been using several sequencers in a patch all at once for years
- first with modular synths, but now also with digital sequencers as
well.  Nowadays, I am typically syncing at least 3 different
sequencers for any given piece of music.

What I think is really cool is to be able to record all of that stuff
into a midi sequencer and being able to layer on several "live"
passes.  This is what Subotnick called "the player piano effect" -
where he would used control tracks (precomputer analog automation) to
layer several controller moves to make an electronic music gesture.  

For instance, one can record a moment where while the P3 is playing,
the player selects a particular scale, edits it in the middle of part
while playing, then changes to another pattern while transposing and
changing the FTS scale and scale base.  

By recording the whole thing going and all of your tweaks,This becomes
midi graphics in the midi sequencer, where it can be tweeked -
correcting for a wrongly  selected scale or a slowed down to match
other music.


That being said, I do respect all of the time and effort it takes to
put any of these ideas into reality.  I am not trying to make Colin's
life miserable...!  I am just suggesting ideas about how to use those
idle keys sitting in front of us...! 8^)

gary

RE: [analogue-sequencer] Re: here's a stupid question....

2005-08-26 by Colin f

> > Also, I'd love the P3 to 
> > transmit its scales so that a second, slaved P3, perhaps 
> played by a 
> > second musician, could follow perfectly any key change made by the
> master.

> That being said, I do respect all of the time and effort it takes to
> put any of these ideas into reality.  I am not trying to make Colin's
> life miserable...!  I am just suggesting ideas about how to use those
> idle keys sitting in front of us...! 8^)

Don't worry Gary. Paul knows fine the FTS slaving is on my list.
He's just trying to coax me into getting on with it.

I wouldn't add new stuff to P3 if I didn't enjoy doing it.
The payback to me from implementing other user's ideas is that I end up with
a better sequencer myself.
It was this realisation that prompted me to release P3 kits and ready-built
units in the first place.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

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