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analogue outs and break out PCB

analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-04-05 by Tom Adam

Hi Colin,

I have a couple of questions about the analogue outputs...

Is there a Clock/start/stop CV option available?
The CV coming out of the DB25 cable what voltage range do they have? 
(0-10V, -5/+5V,...) Same for the gates.
Is there a way to synchronize the cirklon to an LFO?

Do I need a +/-15V (12V) PSU to power the break out PCB for the analogue 
outs?
How many multiples (e.g. 1 in to 4 outs) can be connected to the output 
of the break out PCB?

On the cirklon, can a track be assigned to multiple CV/gates out?

Thanks a lot

Cheers,
ToAd

Re: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-04-05 by Hans Wurrrst

hi tom,here are some answers colin already gave me:

Let me give you some information about the CVIO option: 

The CVIO board has 16 CV (16-bit resolution) and 8 gate outputs. 
The CV outputs support volts/octave or hertz/volt mode, with glide. 
The gate outputs have a 5v high-level, and can also be configured as analogue inputs with a 5 volt range, 8-bit resolution. 

All the connections are on a 25-pin D-connector on the rear panel of the sequencer. 
A cable will connect to an external break-out box, which we think will probably be available in banana, 3.5mm or quarter-inch versions. 3.5mm and banana sockets can fit the same hole size, so it only means panels with two different hole sizes are required. We're currently finalising production details for the break-out box designs. We intend to offer a choice of table-top or rack-mounting versions. Other form factors will be possible using one-off panels. (The basic break-out box is included in the £1199 price for the CVIO option.)
cheerskris
--- On Tue, 4/5/11, Tom Adam <tom.adam@thebigear.be> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Tom Adam <tom.adam@thebigear.be>
Subject: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB
To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 8:29 PM

Hi Colin,

I have a couple of questions about the analogue outputs...

Is there a Clock/start/stop CV option available?
The CV coming out of the DB25 cable what voltage range do they have? 
(0-10V, -5/+5V,...) Same for the gates.
Is there a way to synchronize the cirklon to an LFO?

Do I need a +/-15V (12V) PSU to power the break out PCB for the analogue 
outs?
How many multiples (e.g. 1 in to 4 outs) can be connected to the output 
of the break out PCB?

On the cirklon, can a track be assigned to multiple CV/gates out?

Thanks a lot

Cheers,
ToAd



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-04-05 by Colin Fraser

> I have a couple of questions about the analogue outputs...
> 
> Is there a Clock/start/stop CV option available?

I haven't implemented it, but there's no reason why the gate (or even CV)
outputs can't be configured to send clock.
But there is a dedicated DIN sync output already.
Or did you mean input ?

> The CV coming out of the DB25 cable what voltage range do they have? 
> (0-10V, -5/+5V,...)

The CV range was 0 to 10.58 volts, but I'm going to change it.
The value of 10.58V came from the full MIDI note range. With note 0 = 0v,
and 1V/octave scaling, note 127 is at 127/12 volts = 10.58V.
There is a gain preset on the DAC buffer that allows this voltage to be set
precisely.
However, a couple of factors have changed my mind.
One is that not all 1V/octave synths agree on the size of 1V.
I thought that most people with multiple analogues would have the scaling
standardised across synths, but it was pointed out to me that even though
you can adjust the VCO scaling on every synth, some synths have no
adjustment on the scaling of their keyboard circuit, so the VCO has to be
scaled to suit the keyboard.
Also I've been asked by a few customers if it will support the Buchla
1.2V/octave standard, which I had previously never heard of.
That's 0.1V per semitone, which is a rather friendlier number than
0.083333...
To solve these issues, I have implemented independent scaling for each CV
output.
The DAC has 16-bit resolution, so it's a simple matter to store a 16-bit
scaling factor for each output, and adjust the CV values on the fly.
I will be adding a calibration routine to simplify setup, where you can
trigger a synth for one pitch, check the pitch with a tuner, then raise the
CV for a couple of octave increase and use an encoder on Cirklon to bring
the higher note into tune.
From the difference between the original CV and the adjusted octaves up CV,
Cirklon will be able to calculate the correct octave scaling for the synth.
For the purposes of supporting a Buchla CV input over 10 octaves, it
probably makes sense to set the DAC gain for slightly more than 12V
full-scale.
At some later date, I might even be persuaded to add micro-tuning tables.

> Same for the gates.

Gates are 5V for high-level.
I've just recently realised they may also be able to do S-trig natively -
assuming the non-shorted floating voltage on the S-trig input is in the
range of 0 to 5V.
It is on both my minimoog, and a Korg MS10 I've checked. I need to
investigate compatiblity with other S-trig synths.

> Is there a way to synchronize the cirklon to an LFO?

Not yet. Would you want to ? It likes to be the boss.
 
> Do I need a +/-15V (12V) PSU to power the break out PCB for 
> the analogue outs?
> How many multiples (e.g. 1 in to 4 outs) can be connected to 
> the output of the break out PCB?

The break-out is entirely passive, unless you want to add some custom
voltage alteration, such as shifting the CVs down to a bi-polar range, or
increasing the gate levels.
The number of multiples you could use will depend on the input impedances of
whatever you're driving.
The CV outputs are driven by TL062B op-amps, which are fairly typical.

> On the cirklon, can a track be assigned to multiple CV/gates out?

At the moment each CV output is assigned to a virtual MIDI channel on a 'CV'
port.
You can assign as many outputs as you like to the same channel.
When a track is assigned an instrument that sends to a channel on the CV
port, the CV outputs set to that channel will respond accordingly.
You can map the outputs to note, velocity or controller messages, with
normal or auto-glide.
I'm going to add the ability to mix variable levels of each source into a
single CV.
My minimoog has a VCO input and a filter input, and it doesn't do filter
tracking on the VCO input.
So I want my filter CV to be a mix of note (for key tracking), velocity and
a CC.
I have looked at adding specific aux events to achieve finer resolution
control over the CV outputs, but in practice I'm not finding I need that
level of precision in setting a step value.
The glide option on the CV outputs will smooth the transitions from one step
value to another in a P3 pattern, and that uses the full 16-bit resolution.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

Re: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-04-06 by Tom Adam

Op 5-4-2011 22:43, Hans Wurrrst schreef:
> (The basic break-out box is included in the £1199 price for the CVIO 
> option.)
> cheerskris
OK, this is the first time I hear this. What does this basic break out 
box look like?

Cheers,
ToAd

RE: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-04-07 by Ditton33

Hi Colin

Are the CVIO aspects on the critical path for delivery timescales?

And, if so, can the midi-only units be "fast-tracked" for delivery? :)

Cheers.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
> >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Adam
> >Sent: 06 April 2011 21:29
> >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB
> >
> >Op 5-4-2011 22:43, Hans Wurrrst schreef:
> >> (The basic break-out box is included in the £1199 price 
> >for the CVIO
> >> option.)
> >> cheerskris
> >OK, this is the first time I hear this. What does this basic 
> >break out box look like?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >ToAd
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >

RE: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-04-07 by Colin Fraser

> Are the CVIO aspects on the critical path for delivery timescales?
> 
> And, if so, can the midi-only units be "fast-tracked" for delivery? :)

MIDI-only units will start shipping as soon as they can.
If the break-out boxes look like taking much longer than the main units, I
may start shipping CVIO-equipped units without them, to be sent on later.
I don't think they will take too long though.
The enclosure for the desktop BOB is to be a ready-made Hammond aluminimum
case, with the panel machined by my main enclosure suppliers.
That has worked out to be more cost-effective than a fully custom enclosure.
I don't yet have the information to decide whether a rack-mount BOB can be
achieved for the same price.
I'm going to be sending out a poll email to customers who have already
ordered a CVIO-equipped unit to see what the relative quantities would be.

Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

RE: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-04-08 by Ditton33

OK, many thanks for the info Colin. :) 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com 
> >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin Fraser
> >Sent: 07 April 2011 10:57
> >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB
> >
> > 
> >> Are the CVIO aspects on the critical path for delivery timescales?
> >> 
> >> And, if so, can the midi-only units be "fast-tracked" for 
> >delivery? :)
> >
> >MIDI-only units will start shipping as soon as they can.
> >If the break-out boxes look like taking much longer than the 
> >main units, I may start shipping CVIO-equipped units without 
> >them, to be sent on later.
> >I don't think they will take too long though.
> >The enclosure for the desktop BOB is to be a ready-made 
> >Hammond aluminimum case, with the panel machined by my main 
> >enclosure suppliers.
> >That has worked out to be more cost-effective than a fully 
> >custom enclosure.
> >I don't yet have the information to decide whether a 
> >rack-mount BOB can be achieved for the same price.
> >I'm going to be sending out a poll email to customers who 
> >have already ordered a CVIO-equipped unit to see what the 
> >relative quantities would be.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Colin Fraser
> >Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> >http://www.sequentix.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >

Re: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-05-15 by Tom Adam

I was thinking some more about the BOB the other day...

Does this BOB include a PCB? Is it just routing or are there also some 
'active' components included?
What is the pin-out of the SUB25 plug?
Any pic's or drawings of this BOB somewhere?

When my Cirklon arrives I'm going to get rid of my Midi2CV boxes inside 
my modular.
In my case that would save me 4U in my modular.
The Midi2CV's I currently use have multiples included (the most used 
ones; 1V/Oct, Vel, Gate and slide have 4 multiples, the other ones only 
have 2 multiples). This way I made optimally use of rack space and saved 
me from building a few multiples. (which actually I did when building 
the midi2CV's)
I was hoping to do the same with the BOB. If the enclosure is big enough 
I might just drill some holes in it to add the jack's ;-)
But most likely I will build something myself.

Cheers,
ToAd
www.thebigear.be

Op 7-4-2011 11:57, Colin Fraser schreef:
>
>
> > Are the CVIO aspects on the critical path for delivery timescales?
> >
> > And, if so, can the midi-only units be "fast-tracked" for delivery? :)
>
> MIDI-only units will start shipping as soon as they can.
> If the break-out boxes look like taking much longer than the main units, I
> may start shipping CVIO-equipped units without them, to be sent on later.
> I don't think they will take too long though.
> The enclosure for the desktop BOB is to be a ready-made Hammond aluminimum
> case, with the panel machined by my main enclosure suppliers.
> That has worked out to be more cost-effective than a fully custom 
> enclosure.
> I don't yet have the information to decide whether a rack-mount BOB can be
> achieved for the same price.
> I'm going to be sending out a poll email to customers who have already
> ordered a CVIO-equipped unit to see what the relative quantities would be.
>
> Best regards,
> Colin Fraser
> Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> http://www.sequentix.com
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [analogue-sequencer] analogue outs and break out PCB

2011-05-15 by Colin Fraser

> Does this BOB include a PCB? Is it just routing or are there 
> also some 'active' components included?

It will include a PCB, but no active components. PCBs are the least
labour-intensive way to wire 25 sockets together.

> What is the pin-out of the SUB25 plug?
> Any pic's or drawings of this BOB somewhere?

I've got a schematic, and the functions of the pins are final, but not
necessarily the numbering.
My problems with the BOB are physical.
Of the two designs I had 'finished', the Hammond enclosure lids were too
small for the clamps on my suppliers' CNC turret press, and the rear
enclosure for the rack variant had insufficient clearance for folding.
The electronics, such as they are, are the easy bit.
 
> The Midi2CV's I currently use have multiples included (the 
> most used ones; 1V/Oct, Vel, Gate and slide have 4 multiples, 
> the other ones only have 2 multiples). This way I made 
> optimally use of rack space and saved me from building a few 
> multiples. (which actually I did when building the midi2CV's) 
> I was hoping to do the same with the BOB. If the enclosure is 
> big enough I might just drill some holes in it to add the 
> jack's ;-) But most likely I will build something myself.

I'm not planning to have it any bigger than it needs to be, but it may end
up with more space than needed just for the jacks if extra space is required
for fabrication.


Best regards,
Colin Fraser
Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
http://www.sequentix.com

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