Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Hello, in addition to the editing knob value issue I just sent, the other main problem I'm running into is editing a preset (for a BCR) within BCMan.  My BCR2000 is version 1.10, I'm running WindowsXP SP3, and the USB driver is the modified 1.2.1.3 that's in the group's file section.  Here's what I'm doing:

1. Within BCMan 1.5.1 I have a Presets window open.
2. I'll then click on the 'Show Encoders' button.
3. Within the encoders edit window that comes up I'll edit an encoder.
4. Close the encoders window.
5. Back at the Presets window, with the edited preset selected, I select menu  MIDI > Send.
6. On BCR, it receives the preset, but when finished the lights on every encoder and button goes off.
7. When I send the preset again, while the sysex is being sent the lights on the encoders go back on, but as soon as the sysex is finished sending, all of the lights turn off again.


I've been playing around with this a bit and I've found that if after sending the preset, if I select the preset right button on my BCR2000, then the preset left button (to switch to another preset and then back to the original), the lights on the encoders light up correctly, and with the correct values.

So what's going on? I sure hope I don't have to do this every time I edit a preset as this is a pain.


Thanks,


Jeff

Yes you do.
You have to change from the edited preset and back after you have sent it.


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Jeff B <jeffbee42@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, in addition to the editing knob value issue I just sent, the
other main problem I'm running into is editing a preset (for a BCR)
within BCMan.  My BCR2000 is version 1.10, I'm running WindowsXP SP3,
and the USB driver is the modified 1.2.1.3 that's in the group's file
section.  Here's what I'm doing:
> 
> 1. Within BCMan 1.5.1 I have a Presets window open.
> 2. I'll then click on the 'Show Encoders' button.
> 3. Within the encoders edit window that comes up I'll edit an encoder.
> 4. Close the encoders window.
> 5. Back at the Presets window, with the edited preset selected, I
select menu  MIDI > Send.
> 6. On BCR, it receives the preset, but when finished the lights on
every encoder and button goes off.
> 7. When I send the preset again, while the sysex is being sent the
lights on the encoders go back on, but as soon as the sysex is
finished sending, all of the lights turn off again.
> 
> 
> I've been playing around with this a bit and I've found that if
after sending the preset, if I select the preset right button on my
BCR2000, then the preset left button (to switch to another preset and
then back to the original), the lights on the encoders light up
correctly, and with the correct values.
> 
> So what's going on? I sure hope I don't have to do this every time I
edit a preset as this is a pain.

> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jeff
>

>Have you presed the store button to save the preset once you have loaded it?

After I send the Preset from BCMan, all lights go off (indicating to me at least that something is wrong).

Here are the results:

A) After sending the preset, I press the store button.  This results in the blank preset being saved.  For example, if after sending the preset from BCMan I press the store button (twice), then press the preset > button then press the preset < button, all lights are off

  --or--

B) After sending the preset, I press the preset > button then press the preset < button, then the encoders I programed are lit up correctly.

I think it was Kip who replied back that this (B) is normal, though this seems very wierd to me, having to manually press the buttons to finish getting the preset.

Jeff

>> So what's going on? I sure hope I don't have to do this every time I
>> edit a preset as this is a pain.

> Yes you do.
> You have to change from the edited preset and back after you have
> sent it.

Wow.  Really?  Just so I'm clear, here is my workflow:

1. Open a Presets window
2. Select the Preset I want to edit
3. Click the 'Show Encoders' button
4. Select the encoder row I want to edit
5. Click the 'Edit Properties' button
6. Edit values, then press OK to close the dialog box
7. Close the Encoders window
8. Select MIDI > Send
9. After the send is finished, press OK to close the Send dialog box
10. Back on my BCR, press the 'Preset >' button
11. Press the 'Preset <' button

Is this how you edit (and save) a Preset?

If the BCR requires a patch change, wouldn't it be easier if BCMan sent a MIDI program change message after the SysEx send was finished?


Jeff

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Jeff B <jeffbee42@...> wrote:
> the other main problem I'm running into is editing a preset (for a
BCR) within BCMan. Here's what I'm doing:
> 1. Within BCMan 1.5.1 I have a Presets window open.
> 2. I'll then click on the 'Show Encoders' button.
> 3. Within the encoders edit window that comes up I'll edit an encoder.
> 4. Close the encoders window.
> 5. Back at the Presets window, with the edited preset selected, I
select menu  MIDI > Send.

> 6. On BCR, it receives the preset, but when finished the lights on
every encoder and button goes off.

The lights go off at this point because BC Manager does the following
things when you execute "Send":

1. Send memory preset N (i.e. your choice) to the BCR's temporary
preset. (There's no other way!)

2. Send a "store N" command to the BCR, ordering the BCR to copy its
temporary preset (containing your memory preset data) to memory preset N.

3. Send the temporary preset AS IT OCCURS IN BC MANAGER to the BCR. So
this aims to restore the temporary preset you were (supposedly!)
working with, undoing the effect of step 1 above (which overwrote the
temporary preset on the BCR with your memory preset data). So if the
temporary preset data, as occurring in BC Manager, is "empty", all the
lights indeed go off.

> 7. When I send the preset again, while the sysex is being sent the
lights on the encoders go back on, but as soon as the sysex is
finished sending, all of the lights turn off again.
>
> I've been playing around with this a bit and I've found that if
after sending the preset, if I select the preset right button on my
BCR2000, then the preset left button (to switch to another preset and
then back to the original), the lights on the encoders light up
correctly, and with the correct values.

Yes, pressing the BCR's PRESET buttons copies memory preset data to
the temporary data.


Basically the same issue came up in the BC2000 group recently. See my
message titled "Re: BC Manager midi channel issue", dated Jan 1, 2009
for further explanation.

Mark.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Jeff B <jeffbee42@...> wrote:
> 8. Select MIDI > Send
> 9. After the send is finished, press OK to close the Send dialog box
> 10. Back on my BCR, press the 'Preset >' button
> 11. Press the 'Preset <' button
> 
> Is this how you edit (and save) a Preset?

Well, it's one way, but the (hopefully easier) way I intended things
to work is this:

1. First make sure that all memory presets are synchronized between
the BCR and BC Manager.

2. Use BC Manager's "Copy to preset 0" operation in the preset list
window (by pressing the spacebar or via the "Edit" pulldown menu).
This does 2 things:

a. The selected memory preset is copied to the temporary preset in BC
Manager.

b. BC Manager sends a "select memory preset N" command to the BCR,
provided you've enabled 'Select preset upon "Copy to preset 0"' in the
MIDI options dialog box (accessed from the B-Controls MIDI pulldown
menu). (Note: this operation sends no preset DATA to the BCR, so this
only works correctly if the memory preset on the BCR has already been
synchronized to the corresponding memory preset in BC Manager.)

3. In BC Manager, edit the temporary preset ("preset 0") to your
liking. Using preset 0 for editing has the additional advantage that
for preset 0 you can send individual button/encoder changes directly
to the BCR, allowing you to see right away how it works (both on the
BCR itself and by capturing the MIDI data in BC Manager's "MIDI input
messages" window).

4. If you want to save your changes, do this:

a. Copy the edited temporary preset to a memory preset in BC Manager.

b. Send that memory preset to the BCR. This achieves the following:
- First the memory preset data overwrites the temporary preset on the BCR.
- Then the memory preset data is copied from the BCR's temporary
preset to the memory preset on the BCR.
- Finally the BCR's temporary preset is restored to BC Manager's
temporary preset data. (In this case this should be superfluous, but
of course this is not automatically the case.)

Note that the above editing procedure avoids pressing the BCR's PRESET
buttons. This is a good thing, because that would only cause loss of
synchronization between the BCR and BC Manager, hence potential confusion.

To summarize the general philosophy behind the above editing
procedure: it's best to do as much editing as possible in BC Manager
itself. You merely use the BCR's TEMPORARY preset to verify your
changes, and the MEMORY presets only as "dumb receivers" (for later,
"stand-alone" use with your controlled MIDI hardware/software device).

> If the BCR requires a patch change, wouldn't it be easier if BCMan
sent a MIDI program change message after the SysEx send was finished?

There are several problems with this:

Curiously, the BCR has no (SysEx) command for finding out WHICH memory
preset is currently selected on the BCR. So BC Manager would have to
guess the desired memory preset number from the number of the memory
preset that you've just sent to the BCR. However, BC Manager's "Send
preset" operation allows you to send a RANGE of preset, so how would
BC Manager know which of those presets you want to select on the BCR
(i.e. copy to the BCR's temporary preset)?

Another problem: how would BC Manager know that you don't care about
any pre-existing data in the temporary preset? (This data would get
lost after a MIDI program change selecting a memory preset on the
BCR.) So in a sense this would involve a totally different scheme of
working with the temporary preset: "implicitly" rather than
"explicitly". The advantage of the current, explicit scheme is (as
mentioned above) that you can work directly with the temporary preset
(and its individual elements) as a separate entity.


Mark.