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2010-05-12 by s_y_nagual
Hello, I recently got BCR 2000 and downloaded the BC manager. When I open BC manager, I get a page full of errors,(BCmanager page) and it stops there. What is wrong? BCFredit by birdie works, so it makes me think the problem is between BCR and BCmanager. Any help would be appreciated cheers
2010-05-12 by markwinvdb
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "s_y_nagual" <s_y_nagual@...> wrote: > Hello, I recently got BCR 2000 and downloaded the BC manager. > When I open BC manager, I get a page full of errors,(BCmanager page) and it stops there. > What is wrong? > BCFredit by birdie works, so it makes me think the problem is between BCR and BCmanager. What error messages do you receive exactly? Mark van den Berg.
2010-05-12 by karel skakal
Hello Mark, thank you for reply:) It says BCL errors and the line is loooooooooongLine 1:$rev R1Error 4:invalid model Line 2: $globalError 6: no blocks definedetc...I will take a snapshot and send it to you.Actually I got it working now, just this window always starts.Reading (your?) manual, I updated the midi driver to 1.2.3.1 or something...thank you for your helpcheers --- On Wed, 12/5/10, markwinvdb <markwinvdb@...> wrote:
From: markwinvdb <markwinvdb@...>
Subject: [bc2000] Re: BC manager error
To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 12 May, 2010, 12:12
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups. com, "s_y_nagual" <s_y_nagual@ ...> wrote:
> Hello, I recently got BCR 2000 and downloaded the BC manager.
> When I open BC manager, I get a page full of errors,(BCmanager page) and it stops there.
> What is wrong?
> BCFredit by birdie works, so it makes me think the problem is between BCR and BCmanager.
What error messages do you receive exactly?
Mark van den Berg.2010-05-12 by markwinvdb
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, karel skakal <s_y_nagual@...> wrote:
> Reading (your?) manual, I updated the midi driver to 1.2.3.1 or something...
Yes, USB-based MIDI driver 1.2.1.3.
Indeed a fine choice! (In any case the errors you've been experiencing have nothing to do with the type of driver you've installed, so don't waste your time installing other drivers.)
By the way: are you using the latest version of BC Manager (2.0.3)?
> Actually I got it working now, just this window always starts.
"Always"?
You're not talking about the startup sequence of BC Manager, are you? Unless I'm very mistaken, BC Manager doesn't send this type of data when you start BC Manager.
The error messages in your screen dump seem to concern a "manual" data dump (e.g. via "Send all data"), so I suppose you're talking about that?
> It says BCL errors and the line is loooooooooong
> Line 1:$rev R1
> Error 4:invalid model
>
> Line 2: $global
> Error 6: no blocks defined
> etc...
> I will take a snapshot and send it to you.
OK, thanks, that's very helpful.
The error message concerning line 1 is the crucial one: as far as I can think, this error only occurs when a BCR2000 definition ("$rev R1") is being received by a BCF2000.
(See "BC MIDI Implementation.pdf", section 21.7.)
All the other messages follow directly from the fact that the $rev statement is incorrect.
So do you have a BCF2000 running simultaneously?
Maybe your MIDI routing is such that this BCF (also) receives the BCL message chain, which causes the BCF to spew out all these messages.
However, even if this is so, I still don't immediately understand WHY this BCF responds at all to the messages intended for the BCR.
At least, the SysEx MIDI messages (containing BCL statements) that BC Manager generates, include a Model ID (14h for the BCF, 15h for the BCR), and as far as I know a BCF does NOT respond to a BCR message (i.e. to a message with Model=15h).
So are you sending a "third-party" syx file containing the "wildcard" Model ID (7Fh)? That would explain the problem: in the case of 7Fh, both the BCF and the BCR try to process the embedded BCL message, so then a BCF notices that "$rev R1" is invalid (it expects "$rev F1"), etc.
I've just checked: e.g. Behringer's bcr_FACTORY_PRESETS.syx (which contains the 'all controls' preset occurring in your screen dump) indeed uses 7Fh for Model ID, so upon reception of these messages a BCF indeed returns those error messages, which BC Manager then conscientiously reports.
Hope this helps,
Mark.2010-05-12 by karel skakal
From: markwinvdb
Subject: [bc2000] Re: BC manager error
To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 12 May, 2010, 18:14--- In bc2000@yahoogroups. com, karel skakal wrote:
> Reading (your?) manual, I updated the midi driver to 1.2.3.1 or something...
Yes, USB-based MIDI driver 1.2.1.3.
Indeed a fine choice! (In any case the errors you've been experiencing have nothing to do with the type of driver you've installed, so don't waste your time installing other drivers.)
By the way: are you using the latest version of BC Manager (2.0.3)?
> Actually I got it working now, just this window always starts.
"Always"?
You're not talking about the startup sequence of BC Manager, are you? Unless I'm very mistaken, BC Manager doesn't send this type of data when you start BC Manager.
The error messages in your screen dump seem to concern a "manual" data dump (e.g. via "Send all data"), so I suppose you're talking about that?
> It says BCL errors and the line is loooooooooong
> Line 1:$rev R1
> Error 4:invalid model
>
> Line 2: $global
> Error 6: no blocks defined
> etc...
> I will take a snapshot and send it to you.
OK, thanks, that's very helpful.
The error message concerning line 1 is the crucial one: as far as I can think, this error only occurs when a BCR2000 definition ("$rev R1") is being received by a BCF2000.
(See "BC MIDI Implementation. pdf", section 21.7.)
All the other messages follow directly from the fact that the $rev statement is incorrect.
So do you have a BCF2000 running simultaneously?
Maybe your MIDI routing is such that this BCF (also) receives the BCL message chain, which causes the BCF to spew out all these messages.
However, even if this is so, I still don't immediately understand WHY this BCF responds at all to the messages intended for the BCR.
At least, the SysEx MIDI messages (containing BCL statements) that BC Manager generates, include a Model ID (14h for the BCF, 15h for the BCR), and as far as I know a BCF does NOT respond to a BCR message (i.e. to a message with Model=15h).
So are you sending a "third-party" syx file containing the "wildcard" Model ID (7Fh)? That would explain the problem: in the case of 7Fh, both the BCF and the BCR try to process the embedded BCL message, so then a BCF notices that "$rev R1" is invalid (it expects "$rev F1"), etc.
I've just checked: e.g. Behringer's bcr_FACTORY_ PRESETS.syx (which contains the 'all controls' preset occurring in your screen dump) indeed uses 7Fh for Model ID, so upon reception of these messages a BCF indeed returns those error messages, which BC Manager then conscientiously reports.
Hope this helps,
Mark.
2010-05-12 by markwinvdb
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, karel skakal <s_y_nagual@...> wrote: > I installed firmware 1.07 and everything is great, now i must read the > manual on how to actually use it. > BTW I have only one BCR, no BCF, and I don't know how the confusion > started with BCF, it even showed me midi in/out to BCF...but the > firmware update fixed it all Ah... If you can remember, which firmware version did you have originally (as shown on the BCR's display on startup)? If it was a version earlier than 1.07, that might be the cause of the problem: maybe that version didn't recognize the "$rev R1" statement (and thus basically had the same effect I attributed to the BCF in my previous post). Unfortunately I have never been able to lay my hands on any pre-1.07 versions, so I can't be sure. If you actually had an earlier version before installing 1.07, I've missed a great opportunity: it would have been possible to simply transfer the older firmware from your BCR to your computer (via MIDI). What a pity... By the way, why have you installed 1.07 instead of 1.10? (1.10 has a few additional operational capabilities.) Mark.
2010-05-13 by karel skakal
Hi Mark,...after reading your letter, I went back to 1.10 which was there before I am sure...my BCR is not that old and I remember seeing it. (I confused firmwares) With the editor, something wasn't right, (never found out what) and re-installing fixed it,I was always on the last version, now it works...What a job you did on this thing, awesome. I hope I can use it soon, so far i 'struggle' a bit.cheers, all best, kareland thank you for your help, I am not sure I could have figured it out so fast:) --- On Wed, 12/5/10, markwinvdb <markwinvdb@...> wrote:
From: markwinvdb <markwinvdb@...>
Subject: [bc2000] Re: BC manager error
To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 12 May, 2010, 21:47
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups. com, karel skakal <s_y_nagual@ ...> wrote:
> I installed firmware 1.07 and everything is great, now i must read the
> manual on how to actually use it.
> BTW I have only one BCR, no BCF, and I don't know how the confusion
> started with BCF, it even showed me midi in/out to BCF...but the
> firmware update fixed it all
Ah...
If you can remember, which firmware version did you have originally (as shown on the BCR's display on startup)?
If it was a version earlier than 1.07, that might be the cause of the problem: maybe that version didn't recognize the "$rev R1" statement (and thus basically had the same effect I attributed to the BCF in my previous post).
Unfortunately I have never been able to lay my hands on any pre-1.07 versions, so I can't be sure.
If you actually had an earlier version before installing 1.07, I've missed a great opportunity: it would have been possible to simply transfer the older firmware from your BCR to your computer (via MIDI). What a pity...
By the way, why have you installed 1.07 instead of 1.10? (1.10 has a few additional operational capabilities. )
Mark.2010-05-14 by markwinvdb
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, karel skakal <s_y_nagual@...> wrote: > after reading your letter, I went back to 1.10 which was > there before I am sure...my BCR is not that old and I remember seeing > it. (I confused firmwares) Hm... In a sense, then, I'm relieved that I did NOT miss an opportunity to lay my hands on older firmware...! > With the editor, something wasn't right, (never found out what) and > re-installing fixed it,I was always on the last version, now it > works... I'm still mystified what it could have been: your screendump was very specific: there was definitely something very wrong. Maybe your MIDI setup when you first ran BC Manager was such that BC Manager's autodetection routine went wrong. This autodetection is a rather complicated business; I thought I had most cases covered, but maybe not... Anyway, I'll keep this problem in mind if I ever go through these routines again. > thank you for your help, I am not sure I could have figured it out so > fast:) Actually I'm not sure I was that much help, offering all kinds of convoluted explanations that all turned out to be wrong... And since I wrote BC Manager, in a sense I was the one responsible for your troubles in the first place... Best wishes, Mark.
2010-05-14 by karel skakal
Hello Mark,could it be, that when I open B-Controls dialog, it asks to open a new BCR or BCF, and in the beginning I didn't watch out and I ended up having 2 of each? and 'IF' it was set on BCF it started wrong??...just guessing... (I erased them all meanwhile), only one bcr was active, the others said offline or something anyway, (I struggled a bit, having foggy memory from my previous BCR...and remembering it went easy)... it works great, it opens up instantly, and all I can say is a big... THANX All best, Karel --- On Fri, 14/5/10, markwinvdb <markwinvdb@...> wrote:
From: markwinvdb <markwinvdb@...>
Subject: [bc2000] Re: BC manager error
To: bc2000@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 14 May, 2010, 10:21
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, karel skakal <s_y_nagual@...> wrote:
> after reading your letter, I went back to 1.10 which was
> there before I am sure...my BCR is not that old and I remember seeing
> it. (I confused firmwares)
Hm... In a sense, then, I'm relieved that I did NOT miss an opportunity to lay my hands on older firmware...!
> With the editor, something wasn't right, (never found out what) and
> re-installing fixed it,I was always on the last version, now it
> works...
I'm still mystified what it could have been: your screendump was very specific: there was definitely something very wrong.
Maybe your MIDI setup when you first ran BC Manager was such that BC Manager's autodetection routine went wrong. This autodetection is a rather complicated business; I thought I had most cases covered, but maybe not... Anyway, I'll keep this problem in mind if I ever go through these routines again.
> thank you for your help, I am not sure I could have figured it out so
> fast:)
Actually I'm not sure I was that much help, offering all kinds of convoluted explanations that all turned out to be wrong...
And since I wrote BC Manager, in a sense I was the one responsible for your troubles in the first place...
Best wishes,
Mark.2010-05-15 by markwinvdb
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, karel skakal <s_y_nagual@...> wrote: > could it be, that when I open B-Controls dialog, it asks to open a new > BCR or BCF, and in the beginning I didn't watch out and I ended up > having 2 of each? and 'IF' it was set on BCF it started wrong??...just > guessing... > (I erased them all meanwhile), only one bcr was active, the others said > offline or something anyway, (I struggled a bit, having foggy memory > from my previous BCR...and remembering it went easy)... You're right! I've finally managed to reproduce the BCL error list in your screendump: In the "B-Controls" window, when you open a syx file containing BCR data for a BCF (even an "Offline" one), you get one of two error reports: 1. A "MIDI error log" window saying just "Error: .../Wrong model". This happens when the sysex messages in the syx file contain 15h(=BCR) for Model ID. 2. A "BCL errors" window containing a long list of errors, starting with "Line 1: $rev R1" / "Error 4: Invalid model". This happens when the sysex messages in the syx file contain 7Fh(=any model), as I explained in one of my previous posts. This is exactly as in your screendump. In either case, the BCF row in the B-Controls window does accept the file name, which causes the same error window to show up whenever you start BC Manager - until you "Detach" the file or open a new one, or indeed remove the whole BCF row by "Close selected". So this must be what happened in your case. Thanks for sticking with this issue to figure it out! It's not a bug as such in BC Manager, but it is confusing, so I'll think about whether I can optimize BC Manager's behavior concerning this point. Maybe I could add some extra info to the error message window(s) about the source/cause of the problem. Thanks! Mark.