Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

>
> To explain this question: for example, I have a hardware drum machine (Boss DR-880) which has great drum patterns and sequences built in, but I don't much like the inbuilt sounds, so I use a separate hardware sound module, connected via midi for the actual drum sounds. This gives a fairly unique sound which I'm very happy with. This works very well if I program full drum song performances into the DR-880, but it doesn't really lend itself very well real-time performance, since the DR-880 generally doesn't allow you to edit patterns while in play mode. I can switch drums patterns in real-time – which is great, but I would love to be able to select a drum pattern on the DR-880 and just let it run, then have the ability to mute any choice of drum `notes' in real-time somehow, eg. while the drum pattern is playing I'd like to mute several drum sounds such as the snare(note # 38), and open high-hat(note # 46), and later while still in real-time play mode, un-mute them one after the other in any order, and do the same for any notes within the midi stream.
> 
> Of course there are other drum machines, sequencers, devices, software, and ways to make electronic music to get around this issue - and I do some of those things at times – but I really want to know if this particular setup can do what I have described above with the bcr2000 used as the device in between the DR-880 drum machine and the sound module to filter out midi notes.
> 
> Following experimentation, I tend to think it isn't possible with the bcr2000, since in modes `S-1' to `S-3' the unit merges incoming midi notes with any performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to add a message into the midi stream to `mute note x' until another `un-mute note x' message appears – even though `note x' midi messages are still coming in from the drum machine. I couldn't find any GM midi messages to do this. In mode `S-4' the bcr2000 generally sends only performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to allow some of the midi transmission to pass from the midi IN on the bcr2000 to the midi out, i.e. the notes I want played – I couldn't get this to work either.
> 
> I'm fairly new to all of this so might have missed something. Anyway, so does anyone know if there is anything else I should try to get this to work with the bcr2000, or even is there a way to custom program the bcr2000 – I have a programming background so could do that myself?
>

>
> To explain this question: for example, I have a hardware drum machine (Boss DR-880) which has great drum patterns and sequences built in, but I don't much like the inbuilt sounds, so I use a separate hardware sound module, connected via midi for the actual drum sounds. This gives a fairly unique sound which I'm very happy with. This works very well if I program full drum song performances into the DR-880, but it doesn't really lend itself very well real-time performance, since the DR-880 generally doesn't allow you to edit patterns while in play mode. I can switch drums patterns in real-time – which is great, but I would love to be able to select a drum pattern on the DR-880 and just let it run, then have the ability to mute any choice of drum `notes' in real-time somehow, eg. while the drum pattern is playing I'd like to mute several drum sounds such as the snare(note # 38), and open high-hat(note # 46), and later while still in real-time play mode, un-mute them one after the other in any order, and do the same for any notes within the midi stream.
> 
> Of course there are other drum machines, sequencers, devices, software, and ways to make electronic music to get around this issue - and I do some of those things at times – but I really want to know if this particular setup can do what I have described above with the bcr2000 used as the device in between the DR-880 drum machine and the sound module to filter out midi notes.
> 
> Following experimentation, I tend to think it isn't possible with the bcr2000, since in modes `S-1' to `S-3' the unit merges incoming midi notes with any performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to add a message into the midi stream to `mute note x' until another `un-mute note x' message appears – even though `note x' midi messages are still coming in from the drum machine. I couldn't find any GM midi messages to do this. In mode `S-4' the bcr2000 generally sends only performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to allow some of the midi transmission to pass from the midi IN on the bcr2000 to the midi out, i.e. the notes I want played – I couldn't get this to work either.
> 
> I'm fairly new to all of this so might have missed something. Anyway, so does anyone know if there is anything else I should try to get this to work with the bcr2000, or even is there a way to custom program the bcr2000 – I have a programming background so could do that myself?
>

>
> There are a number of ways to mute a note.
> You can set the CC7 (volume) of the channel to 0
> You can do the same with CC11 (expression) to 0
> This is for he whole channel and the BC can do this.
> 
> You could intercept the note message and change the velocity to 0 then pass it on or just not send it (not so good if you have already sent a note on message with velocity not 0 - hung note - not so bad for a drum machine) . 
> This is usually for one channel (10) and the BC can't do this.
> 
> You could write a simple echo program that filtered depending on what message it received from the BC. This would be my solution.
> 
> All the best
> Royce
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "dgreenvalda" <dgreenvalda@> wrote:
> >
> > To explain this question: for example, I have a hardware drum machine (Boss DR-880) which has great drum patterns and sequences built in, but I don't much like the inbuilt sounds, so I use a separate hardware sound module, connected via midi for the actual drum sounds. This gives a fairly unique sound which I'm very happy with. This works very well if I program full drum song performances into the DR-880, but it doesn't really lend itself very well real-time performance, since the DR-880 generally doesn't allow you to edit patterns while in play mode. I can switch drums patterns in real-time – which is great, but I would love to be able to select a drum pattern on the DR-880 and just let it run, then have the ability to mute any choice of drum `notes' in real-time somehow, eg. while the drum pattern is playing I'd like to mute several drum sounds such as the snare(note # 38), and open high-hat(note # 46), and later while still in real-time play mode, un-mute them one after the other in any order, and do the same for any notes within the midi stream.
> > 
> > Of course there are other drum machines, sequencers, devices, software, and ways to make electronic music to get around this issue - and I do some of those things at times – but I really want to know if this particular setup can do what I have described above with the bcr2000 used as the device in between the DR-880 drum machine and the sound module to filter out midi notes.
> > 
> > Following experimentation, I tend to think it isn't possible with the bcr2000, since in modes `S-1' to `S-3' the unit merges incoming midi notes with any performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to add a message into the midi stream to `mute note x' until another `un-mute note x' message appears – even though `note x' midi messages are still coming in from the drum machine. I couldn't find any GM midi messages to do this. In mode `S-4' the bcr2000 generally sends only performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to allow some of the midi transmission to pass from the midi IN on the bcr2000 to the midi out, i.e. the notes I want played – I couldn't get this to work either.
> > 
> > I'm fairly new to all of this so might have missed something. Anyway, so does anyone know if there is anything else I should try to get this to work with the bcr2000, or even is there a way to custom program the bcr2000 – I have a programming background so could do that myself?
> >
>

>
> Hi, I started to write a reply suggesting that you find a way to control the DR880 kit instrument levels via MIDI (p103 of the DR880 manual).  As far as I know, there is no way to use the BCR as a MIDI message filter.  But what you really need is to control the volume of individual voices in your hardware sound module - so the MIDI note messages still get through, they just don't sound.  What is the hardware expander unit? 
> 
> Bill
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "dgreenvalda" <dgreenvalda@> wrote:
> >
> > To explain this question: for example, I have a hardware drum machine (Boss DR-880) which has great drum patterns and sequences built in, but I don't much like the inbuilt sounds, so I use a separate hardware sound module, connected via midi for the actual drum sounds. This gives a fairly unique sound which I'm very happy with. This works very well if I program full drum song performances into the DR-880, but it doesn't really lend itself very well real-time performance, since the DR-880 generally doesn't allow you to edit patterns while in play mode. I can switch drums patterns in real-time – which is great, but I would love to be able to select a drum pattern on the DR-880 and just let it run, then have the ability to mute any choice of drum `notes' in real-time somehow, eg. while the drum pattern is playing I'd like to mute several drum sounds such as the snare(note # 38), and open high-hat(note # 46), and later while still in real-time play mode, un-mute them one after the other in any order, and do the same for any notes within the midi stream.
> > 
> > Of course there are other drum machines, sequencers, devices, software, and ways to make electronic music to get around this issue - and I do some of those things at times – but I really want to know if this particular setup can do what I have described above with the bcr2000 used as the device in between the DR-880 drum machine and the sound module to filter out midi notes.
> > 
> > Following experimentation, I tend to think it isn't possible with the bcr2000, since in modes `S-1' to `S-3' the unit merges incoming midi notes with any performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to add a message into the midi stream to `mute note x' until another `un-mute note x' message appears – even though `note x' midi messages are still coming in from the drum machine. I couldn't find any GM midi messages to do this. In mode `S-4' the bcr2000 generally sends only performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to allow some of the midi transmission to pass from the midi IN on the bcr2000 to the midi out, i.e. the notes I want played – I couldn't get this to work either.
> > 
> > I'm fairly new to all of this so might have missed something. Anyway, so does anyone know if there is anything else I should try to get this to work with the bcr2000, or even is there a way to custom program the bcr2000 – I have a programming background so could do that myself?
> >
>

>
> That would be great if its possible.
> 
> The module is the Roland sc-88 pro, and did start to try that, and got to the point where the bcr2000 was mutiny the whole channel. If the was a code to mute individual notes that would be great. Also though, I sometimes use an akai z4 as the sound module. Also, I have been thinking of even purchasing kontakt and using that for the drum sounds. Do you know if the bcr2000 can selectively mute zones in kontakt since that too would basically achieve a similar thing. I guess I just really like the patterns in the dr88p. 
> 
> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> Dan.
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "twobeelandscape" <bill@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I started to write a reply suggesting that you find a way to control the DR880 kit instrument levels via MIDI (p103 of the DR880 manual).  As far as I know, there is no way to use the BCR as a MIDI message filter.  But what you really need is to control the volume of individual voices in your hardware sound module - so the MIDI note messages still get through, they just don't sound.  What is the hardware expander unit? 
> > 
> > Bill
> > 
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "dgreenvalda" <dgreenvalda@> wrote:
> > >
> > > To explain this question: for example, I have a hardware drum machine (Boss DR-880) which has great drum patterns and sequences built in, but I don't much like the inbuilt sounds, so I use a separate hardware sound module, connected via midi for the actual drum sounds. This gives a fairly unique sound which I'm very happy with. This works very well if I program full drum song performances into the DR-880, but it doesn't really lend itself very well real-time performance, since the DR-880 generally doesn't allow you to edit patterns while in play mode. I can switch drums patterns in real-time – which is great, but I would love to be able to select a drum pattern on the DR-880 and just let it run, then have the ability to mute any choice of drum `notes' in real-time somehow, eg. while the drum pattern is playing I'd like to mute several drum sounds such as the snare(note # 38), and open high-hat(note # 46), and later while still in real-time play mode, un-mute them one after the other in any order, and do the same for any notes within the midi stream.
> > > 
> > > Of course there are other drum machines, sequencers, devices, software, and ways to make electronic music to get around this issue - and I do some of those things at times – but I really want to know if this particular setup can do what I have described above with the bcr2000 used as the device in between the DR-880 drum machine and the sound module to filter out midi notes.
> > > 
> > > Following experimentation, I tend to think it isn't possible with the bcr2000, since in modes `S-1' to `S-3' the unit merges incoming midi notes with any performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to add a message into the midi stream to `mute note x' until another `un-mute note x' message appears – even though `note x' midi messages are still coming in from the drum machine. I couldn't find any GM midi messages to do this. In mode `S-4' the bcr2000 generally sends only performance data created in the bcr2000 – so it could only work if there is a way to allow some of the midi transmission to pass from the midi IN on the bcr2000 to the midi out, i.e. the notes I want played – I couldn't get this to work either.
> > > 
> > > I'm fairly new to all of this so might have missed something. Anyway, so does anyone know if there is anything else I should try to get this to work with the bcr2000, or even is there a way to custom program the bcr2000 – I have a programming background so could do that myself?
> > >
> >
>

>
> success!!!
> 
> I first pursued the option to control the sound module's individual drum sounds via nrpn messages to provide the filtering I wanted, since my preference is to not have a pc in the MIDI chain - and it worked!
> 
> a lot of ducks needed to be in a row here is a run-down:
> 
> the sc-88 pro manual did show what nrpn messages were required to change drum sound levels regardless of the note messages received - in this case 1a in hex, along with the drum sound number, eg. 24 in hex to control bass drum 1.
> 
> then it was a matter of setting up the bc to send this along with volume levels for toggle on and off. the bc parameter 1 is nrpn and I found the bc parameter 3 setting through trial and error with midiox was 3364 in this case to send the above hex values. to alter the levels of other drum sounds parameter 3 is changed. parameter 4 and 5 send the toggle values, ie. full volume and mute.
> 
> then the sc-88 pro just needed to have receive nrpn messages turned on for the MIDI drum channel 10.
> 
> next I will see if the akai z4 has similar abilities, and the manual suggests it is even easier on the z4 since you apparently can specify your own cc messages to control modulation. hopefully I can get the z4 to respond in the same way as the sc-88 and use the same bc presets.
> 
> I'm constantly impressed by the MIDI standard and how so many different devices implement it well to allow such flexibility and functionality.
> 
> thanks for all your help guys I learnt a lot.
>