Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

hi all, this is my first post (hi). i just received my bcr2000 and im on firmware 1.03. im trying to update to 1.10 but im having some trouble. ive scanned through the posts for firmware help and it seems one option is to downgrade the usb midi driver to 1.1.1.0, which i cant find. another option is to use midi tools and send this file http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/download/BCF_Get_Firmware.zip but the link appears to be broken (ive tried right clicking and saving and entering it into the address bar). i checked through the files and didnt see it, i may have missed it. id appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction. thanks!

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@...> wrote:
> i just received my bcr2000 and im on firmware 1.03. im trying to update to 1.10 but im having some trouble.

What's been the problem exactly?

It would help greatly if you could specify which operating system you're on, which USB driver (if any) you've installed, and which utility you're trying to use to upload the firmware.

> ive scanned through the posts for firmware help and it seems one option is to downgrade the usb midi driver to 1.1.1.0

Where did you read that?
As far as I know, you don't need to downgrade to USB driver vs. 1.1.1.0 to be able to upload firmware.
But then again, I've never worked with firmware version 1.03, so it MIGHT be incompatible with more recent USB drivers.

> which i cant find.

If you really want to, I could send it to you, but (as I stated above) I doubt very much that you actually need 1.1.1.0.

Behringer's website still offers version 1.2.1.3, which is very close in functionality to 1.1.1.0 and 1.1.1.1, so I would try that one first.
But if you're on Windows 7 (particularly 64-bit), installing 1.1.1.0, 1.1.1.1 or 1.2.1.3 is difficult or impossible anyway.

> another option is to use midi tools and send this file http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/download/BCF_Get_Firmware.zip but the link appears to be broken

Obviously you're referring to this message:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000/message/3856

The procedure mentioned there wasn't about uploading firmware 1.10, but about saving the 1.03 firmware for me before upgrading to 1.10.
Unfortunately that person never sent me the 1.03 firmware, so I assume he/she found the procedure too difficult.
But if you're willing to try this procedure before upgrading to 1.10, I'd be eternally grateful to you - mention you in my will etc. ...

The reason the link didn't work is that I removed the file about a week ago, thinking nobody would be interested in it any more.
But I've uploaded it again now, so if you're willing to try, you can go right ahead...

Mark.

wow i think ive ever misunderstood so many things at once...
im using winxp pro sp3 32 bit 

> What's been the problem exactly?
using the update utility and firmware from behringers site causes the update utility to close immediately after opening the firmware update for 1.10 

> It would help greatly if you could specify which operating system you're on, which USB driver (if any) you've installed, and which utility you're trying to use to upload the firmware.
i installed the most current driver from behringers site (USB MIDI Driver 32-bit USB MIDI Driver). i just uninstalled and installed 1.2.1.3 so this may work, i will try again later
> > ive scanned through the posts for firmware help and it seems one option is to downgrade the usb midi driver to 1.1.1.0
> 
> Where did you read that?
it was a post here. it worked for this person so i figured it was worth a shot
 
> Obviously you're referring to this message:
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000/message/3856
> 
> The procedure mentioned there wasn't about uploading firmware 1.10, but about saving the 1.03 firmware for me before upgrading to 1.10.
> Unfortunately that person never sent me the 1.03 firmware, so I assume he/she found the procedure too difficult.
> But if you're willing to try this procedure before upgrading to 1.10, I'd be eternally grateful to you - mention you in my will etc. ...
im waiting to try upgrading firmware so i can try this process. thanks for uploading the file i will try once im off work 

thanks for all your help. i will try all this tonight and get back to you as soon as i can.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@...> wrote:
> im using winxp pro sp3 32 bit

OK, so then you have a wide choice of USB drivers.
However, my personal favorite for XP is the Behringer 1.2.1.3 driver.
I particularly like the very informative MIDI I/O port name scheme used by 1.2.1.3.
For further discussion of all the available USB drivers, see section 4.4 of the BC Manager Manual (downloadable from http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/bcman.html).

> using the update utility and firmware from behringers site causes the update utility to close immediately after opening the firmware update for 1.10 

Ah, yes: I could never get Behringer's update utility to work either.
(See section 4.2 of the BC Manager Manual.)

Instead, you can use any program capable of uploading System Exclusive messages.
If you want to use my own BC Manager, see "Send firmware" on p. 38 of the BC Manager Manual.

The most important thing to remember (no matter which program you use):

If the firmware upload process is somehow interrupted, you should NOT switch the BCR off, because then after switching it on again, the BCR's display will say "noOS" and you'll have to retry uploading the firmware in an S-mode, which means that you can't use the USB connection, but only the BCR's "real" MIDI input port.
(That's because the BCR's USB support is IN its current firmware - so if the firmware is trashed (i.e. partly overwritten), you are left with only the always-present bootloader, which only supports the standard MIDI input port.)

So instead, if the upload process is interrupted, you should simply redo the upload process, until it goes well. (The BCR's "old" USB connection will remain operational until you switch the unit off.)
This is one of the reasons why BC Manager's upload routine is very safe: it works bidirectionally and can thus tell you whether the upload has been complete.

> i installed the most current driver from behringers site (USB MIDI Driver 32-bit USB MIDI Driver). i just uninstalled and installed 1.2.1.3 so this may work

Great! And now you can blame ME if it doesn't...

> im waiting to try upgrading firmware so i can try this process. thanks for uploading the file i will try once im off work 
> 
> thanks for all your help. i will try all this tonight and get back to you as soon as i can.

Good luck!
Mark.

ok i went through the steps in the bottom half of this post http://launch.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000/message/3856 to try to get that file for you but maybe im doing something wrong. heres my steps:

installed midi tools, downloaded BCF_Get_Firmware.syx
opened up midi tools, options, midi devices - under input/output tabs i have "BCR2000[1]" enabled (should it look like this? with another usb port it says "usb audio device"...) under both tabs (should i select this as thru devices also?)
then i press record under midi input messages, select "BCR2000[1]" as output device under midi system exclusive messages, insert BCF_Get_Firmware.syx under file, edit->select all and press play but nothing shows up on the midi input messages window. tried clicking stop and saving anyway but still nothing. any ideas?

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark v.d. Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@> wrote:
> > im using winxp pro sp3 32 bit
> 
> OK, so then you have a wide choice of USB drivers.
> However, my personal favorite for XP is the Behringer 1.2.1.3 driver.
> I particularly like the very informative MIDI I/O port name scheme used by 1.2.1.3.
> For further discussion of all the available USB drivers, see section 4.4 of the BC Manager Manual (downloadable from http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/bcman.html).
> 
> > using the update utility and firmware from behringers site causes the update utility to close immediately after opening the firmware update for 1.10 
> 
> Ah, yes: I could never get Behringer's update utility to work either.
> (See section 4.2 of the BC Manager Manual.)
> 
> Instead, you can use any program capable of uploading System Exclusive messages.
> If you want to use my own BC Manager, see "Send firmware" on p. 38 of the BC Manager Manual.
> 
> The most important thing to remember (no matter which program you use):
> 
> If the firmware upload process is somehow interrupted, you should NOT switch the BCR off, because then after switching it on again, the BCR's display will say "noOS" and you'll have to retry uploading the firmware in an S-mode, which means that you can't use the USB connection, but only the BCR's "real" MIDI input port.
> (That's because the BCR's USB support is IN its current firmware - so if the firmware is trashed (i.e. partly overwritten), you are left with only the always-present bootloader, which only supports the standard MIDI input port.)
> 
> So instead, if the upload process is interrupted, you should simply redo the upload process, until it goes well. (The BCR's "old" USB connection will remain operational until you switch the unit off.)
> This is one of the reasons why BC Manager's upload routine is very safe: it works bidirectionally and can thus tell you whether the upload has been complete.
> 
> > i installed the most current driver from behringers site (USB MIDI Driver 32-bit USB MIDI Driver). i just uninstalled and installed 1.2.1.3 so this may work
> 
> Great! And now you can blame ME if it doesn't...
> 
> > im waiting to try upgrading firmware so i can try this process. thanks for uploading the file i will try once im off work 
> > 
> > thanks for all your help. i will try all this tonight and get back to you as soon as i can.
> 
> Good luck!
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@...> wrote:
> under input/output tabs i have "BCR2000[1]" enabled (should it look like this?

Yes: "BCR2000[1]" is the name the Behringer 1.2.1.3 USB driver gives to its MIDI I/O ports.
(To be more precise: "[1]" in the name means that the Device ID set on your BCR itself is "1". You can check/edit this via EDIT + STORE + push encoder 5. Just don't change this ID while MIDI Tools is running: you'd lose the "old" I/O ports immediately!)

> should i select this as thru devices also?

No!
The Thru facility in MIDI Tools works like this:
Anything MIDI Tools receives at the MIDI input device is routed to the MIDI output device.
So you DON'T want to reroute everything the BCR sends to the computer BACK to the BCR.
So you should just leave the Thru boxes for the "BCR2000[1]" devices at "[None]".

> with another usb port it says "usb audio device"...) under both tabs

This is the name the standard Windows USB driver assigns to the MIDI I/O ports from/to the BCR.
When you plug the BCR's USB cable into the computer for the first time, Windows automatically installs this driver.

HOWEVER, this USB driver should be REPLACED by any Behringer USB driver you install afterwards (1.2.1.3 in your case).
So you should NOT see BOTH "USB Audio Device" and "BCR2000[1]" in the device list in MIDI Tools; in that case you should remove "USB Audio Device" (probably via Control Panel -> System -> Hardware -> Device Manager -> Sound, video and game controllers).

> then i press record under midi input messages, select "BCR2000[1]" as output device under midi system exclusive messages, insert BCF_Get_Firmware.syx under file, edit->select all and press play but nothing shows up on the midi input messages window. tried clicking stop and saving anyway but still nothing. any ideas?

Yes: the reason it failed is that I'm getting senile:
as its name implies, BCF_Get_Firmware.syx contains firmware request messages for the BCF2000, not for the BCR2000...
So I've now uploaded the file for the BCR2000:
http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/download/BCR_Get_Firmware.zip
Sorry about my stupidity...

With this new file I've just performed the steps with your exact configuration (apart from your current firmware version, of course...), and it works.
Just remember to set the "Delay/message" value to 50 in the "MIDI System Exclusive messages" window, or else you won't receive the full 272 messages.

Good luck again...
Mark.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@...> wrote:
> with another usb port it says "usb audio device"...) under both tabs

In addition to my previous reply:

Under Windows, a USB device driver usually ONLY gets installed for the USB port to which the device is currently connected.

Both Windows' standard "USB Audio Device" driver and Behringer's USB device drivers (e.g. 1.2.1.3) work this way.

So it's quite natural that you see "USB Audio Device" when you plug the BCR into a USB port for which you haven't installed the Behringer driver (yet).

So I always try to plug each USB device (BCF, BCR etc.) into the same USB port, to avoid having to install its device driver multiple times.

Mark.

i think it worked, i sent the file to the email from your website, please let me know if it looks correct so i can update my firmware. thanks for all your help!

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark v.d. Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@> wrote:
> > with another usb port it says "usb audio device"...) under both tabs
> 
> In addition to my previous reply:
> 
> Under Windows, a USB device driver usually ONLY gets installed for the USB port to which the device is currently connected.
> 
> Both Windows' standard "USB Audio Device" driver and Behringer's USB device drivers (e.g. 1.2.1.3) work this way.
> 
> So it's quite natural that you see "USB Audio Device" when you plug the BCR into a USB port for which you haven't installed the Behringer driver (yet).
> 
> So I always try to plug each USB device (BCF, BCR etc.) into the same USB port, to avoid having to install its device driver multiple times.
> 
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@...> wrote:
> i think it worked, i sent the file to the email from your website, please let me know if it looks correct so i can update my firmware.

Yes, I got it!
And... it's OK!
After some necessary conversions I managed to upload the 1.03 firmware to my own BCR (which had 1.10), using BC Manager's "Send firmware" routine.
Then when I restarted the BCR it said "1.03".
(So at that point I was in exactly the same position as you.)
Then I used BC Manager's "Send firmware" routine again, this time uploading the 1.10 firmware - and after restarting the BCR it was back to 1.10 again.
So this should work for you as well.

One very important point: the 1.03 firmware file you sent me is unsuitable for uploading to the BCR:
For reasons only known to the developer of the BCR2000 at Behringer, there is a mismatch between the firmware format that is to be sent TO the BCR and the format that the BCR returns.
So to avoid confusion, I suggest you simply destroy that file.
If you wish, I could send you the "corrected" version of 1.03 (which CAN be sent to the BCR) - but I suppose you'll just be happy to see the back of 1.03...

In any case I now know that 1.03 can be upgraded simply using BC Manager's existing "Send firmware" routine, which is useful if any other old BCFs/BCRs turn up.

So thanks very much for your patience. I'll mention you in my will...

Let me know if there's any problem with uploading 1.10.

Good luck!
Mark.

glad it worked, the upgrade worked also. thanks again again.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark v.d. Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@> wrote:
> > i think it worked, i sent the file to the email from your website, please let me know if it looks correct so i can update my firmware.
> 
> Yes, I got it!
> And... it's OK!
> After some necessary conversions I managed to upload the 1.03 firmware to my own BCR (which had 1.10), using BC Manager's "Send firmware" routine.
> Then when I restarted the BCR it said "1.03".
> (So at that point I was in exactly the same position as you.)
> Then I used BC Manager's "Send firmware" routine again, this time uploading the 1.10 firmware - and after restarting the BCR it was back to 1.10 again.
> So this should work for you as well.
> 
> One very important point: the 1.03 firmware file you sent me is unsuitable for uploading to the BCR:
> For reasons only known to the developer of the BCR2000 at Behringer, there is a mismatch between the firmware format that is to be sent TO the BCR and the format that the BCR returns.
> So to avoid confusion, I suggest you simply destroy that file.
> If you wish, I could send you the "corrected" version of 1.03 (which CAN be sent to the BCR) - but I suppose you'll just be happy to see the back of 1.03...
> 
> In any case I now know that 1.03 can be upgraded simply using BC Manager's existing "Send firmware" routine, which is useful if any other old BCFs/BCRs turn up.
> 
> So thanks very much for your patience. I'll mention you in my will...
> 
> Let me know if there's any problem with uploading 1.10.
> 
> Good luck!
> Mark.
>

sorry one last question, ive checked the board and the manual, i may be missing it or doing something wrong: i want to change the midi channels for particular presets, i have the mks50 on preset 1 and tx81z on preset 2. mks50 is going through channel 1 which is fine but the tx81z defaults to channel 11. i tried in the presets window to go to edit->set->channel and set the specific channel and sent to bcr but its stays at channel 11. is this the correct method?

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark v.d. Berg" <markwinvdb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@> wrote:
> > i think it worked, i sent the file to the email from your website, please let me know if it looks correct so i can update my firmware.
> 
> Yes, I got it!
> And... it's OK!
> After some necessary conversions I managed to upload the 1.03 firmware to my own BCR (which had 1.10), using BC Manager's "Send firmware" routine.
> Then when I restarted the BCR it said "1.03".
> (So at that point I was in exactly the same position as you.)
> Then I used BC Manager's "Send firmware" routine again, this time uploading the 1.10 firmware - and after restarting the BCR it was back to 1.10 again.
> So this should work for you as well.
> 
> One very important point: the 1.03 firmware file you sent me is unsuitable for uploading to the BCR:
> For reasons only known to the developer of the BCR2000 at Behringer, there is a mismatch between the firmware format that is to be sent TO the BCR and the format that the BCR returns.
> So to avoid confusion, I suggest you simply destroy that file.
> If you wish, I could send you the "corrected" version of 1.03 (which CAN be sent to the BCR) - but I suppose you'll just be happy to see the back of 1.03...
> 
> In any case I now know that 1.03 can be upgraded simply using BC Manager's existing "Send firmware" routine, which is useful if any other old BCFs/BCRs turn up.
> 
> So thanks very much for your patience. I'll mention you in my will...
> 
> Let me know if there's any problem with uploading 1.10.
> 
> Good luck!
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "patrick_koondial" <patrick_koondial@...> wrote:
> i want to change the midi channels for particular presets, i have the mks50 on preset 1 and tx81z on preset 2. mks50 is going through channel 1 which is fine but the tx81z defaults to channel 11. i tried in the presets window to go to edit->set->channel and set the specific channel and sent to bcr but its stays at channel 11. is this the correct method?

Basically yes, but obviously there's still something wrong.
I'm not sure exactly what, but here are some points to consider:

1. The content of the TX81Z preset:
The "Set -> Channel" operation can only change the channels of the "Standard output" of buttons/encoders, not their "Custom output".
If "Custom output" contains references to channel 11, you'll have to edit those manually.
The Layout window displays the channels of any Standard output definitions (the first number in each box), so when you perform Set -> Channel, you should see those values change immediately.

2. Uploading memory presets can be tricky.
For one thing, you may have to (re)select the memory preset on the BCR, in order to copy the memory preset data to the temporary preset.
For more discussion of pitfalls, see the BC Manager Manual's FAQ section (24): questions 11, 43, 44 and (in particular) 45.

Hope this helps,
Mark.