Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Looking around I see I'm in the company of very advanced users so I'm
going to feel a bit dumb asking what are pretty fundamental questions,
but I hope someone will take the time. Here's my setup:

- BCF into USB 2.0 on mainboard, MIDI keyboard (with sus pedal) into
MIDI-in jack on my audio card.

- I would like to use the BCF for mixer control, and to acquire a BCR
for VSTi and VST FX control. Can someone tell me what the best way to
chain the two devices would be? Single MIDI cable from one to another,
then USB to my machine? And should I forget about Mackie emulation
altogether if I'm chaining the two?

- I also have a MIDI expression pedal and it's in the BCF jack. I
gather I shouldn't use Mackie mode if I want to use this thing to e.g.
do a wah-wah while playing a VSTi. 

Any advice on chaining the devices, should I be using different ports
than I am now for my keyboard and/or pedals, etc would be really
greatly appreciated, as well as the chining of BCR/BCF and workflow
between them and Cubase. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Steve Meiers <tekrytor@...> wrote:
>
> mhanderson,
>    
>   don't feel alone as a beginner here. I've been lurking for over a
year and watching these advanced users rip past me. Fortunately, this
is a very friendly group and you are not alone as noob. btw, i too
have a BCF.
>    
>   steve m 
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
>

Cheers Steve, thanks. You can call me Mike :)

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, Steve Meiers <tekrytor@...> wrote:
>
> mhanderson,
>    
>   don't feel alone as a beginner here. I've been lurking for over a
year and watching these advanced users rip past me. Fortunately, this
is a very friendly group and you are not alone as noob. btw, i too
have a BCF.
>    
>   steve m 
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
Hi again Steve,

well, I have had a little more time to check things out here. I see
there are 623 members, but nobody has offered any help yet. I guess
there must be a lot of inactive members though; for example I was
checking out the file section and saw a JPEG previewing a template
someone was making for the Arturia CS-80 V. Cool, I thought, since I
own that software...then I noticed the JPEG was posted April 2006.

I dunno, I get the impression nobody is here to help noobs, and that
they had to learn most of what they know by trial and error and
intensive study of MIDI, and have no time to tutor people who are just
getting started.

cheers,
Mike.

Hey Mike! Don t feel too bad. A lot of us are busy I guess. I know I am. There is no real problem with running both a BCR and a BCF at the same time. You don t

Hi Mike 

I'm sorry no one has tried to help.
I generally try to leave stuff that I would have to guess at an answer
or the general questions to others as I seem to fill a lot of space
here and I would like to give the many others equally qualified a
chance to help  and so people don't have t keep listening to my
ramblings (oops too late!)

Graham's suggestions are on the button. Note that the BCR doesn't have
an expression (continuous) controller only jacks for two switches.

Windows and MacOS, as you know, can have many MIDI interfaces
connected. How your software handles them is a question for the
software, so you need to be specific about what software you want to use.
For example Reason (from 3.02) takes over the BCR by programming the
controllers when you select a track. It's great to see the display
spinning when you select the ReDrum drum machine or the Subtractor
synth etc. All the values in the track are sent to the BCR so it
displays the current values. 
Is it the best implementation of control surface programming I have
seen (much better than Sonar's ACT) and it was were I started when
analyzing the BCR sysex.
I don't know what happens if you have two units connected. Something
special I suspect as I have a Frontier Tranzport which it also finds
it and works perfectly, just the way you would expect it to.

I have always thought that the BC chaining was more suited to
increasing the number of "channels" ie from an BCF 8 channel DAW mixer
to a 16 channel one.

I'm sure you can mix a BCF with a BCR, but if you want them to do
different jobs at the same time (DAW controller and VST synth editor)
then I would connect them to the USB ports and make them separate Midi
interfaces for the PC (U-1) or stand alone Midi (S-1)into a multi
input MIDI interface like a  MidiSport

Hope that helps

Royce

> Hi again Steve,
> 
> well, I have had a little more time to check things out here. I see
> there are 623 members, but nobody has offered any help yet. I guess
> there must be a lot of inactive members though; for example I was
> checking out the file section and saw a JPEG previewing a template
> someone was making for the Arturia CS-80 V. Cool, I thought, since I
> own that software...then I noticed the JPEG was posted April 2006.
> 
> I dunno, I get the impression nobody is here to help noobs, and that
> they had to learn most of what they know by trial and error and
> intensive study of MIDI, and have no time to tutor people who are just
> getting started.
> 
> cheers,
> Mike.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike 
> 
> I'm sorry no one has tried to help.
> I generally try to leave stuff that I would have to guess at an answer
> or the general questions to others as I seem to fill a lot of space
> here and I would like to give the many others equally qualified a
> chance to help  and so people don't have t keep listening to my
> ramblings (oops too late!)
> 
> Graham's suggestions are on the button. Note that the BCR doesn't have
> an expression (continuous) controller only jacks for two switches.
> 
> Windows and MacOS, as you know, can have many MIDI interfaces
> connected. How your software handles them is a question for the
> software, so you need to be specific about what software you want to
use.
> For example Reason (from 3.02) takes over the BCR by programming the
> controllers when you select a track. It's great to see the display
> spinning when you select the ReDrum drum machine or the Subtractor
> synth etc. All the values in the track are sent to the BCR so it
> displays the current values. 
> Is it the best implementation of control surface programming I have
> seen (much better than Sonar's ACT) and it was were I started when
> analyzing the BCR sysex.
> I don't know what happens if you have two units connected. Something
> special I suspect as I have a Frontier Tranzport which it also finds
> it and works perfectly, just the way you would expect it to.
> 
> I have always thought that the BC chaining was more suited to
> increasing the number of "channels" ie from an BCF 8 channel DAW mixer
> to a 16 channel one.
> 
> I'm sure you can mix a BCF with a BCR, but if you want them to do
> different jobs at the same time (DAW controller and VST synth editor)
> then I would connect them to the USB ports and make them separate Midi
> interfaces for the PC (U-1) or stand alone Midi (S-1)into a multi
> input MIDI interface like a  MidiSport
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> Royce
> 

Royce, this covers most of what I was wondering, i.e. should I chain
the BCR and BCF. As you say, I am intending to use them for entirely
different functions, so your reply makes perfect sense. I apologize if
I came off as whiny, and thanks a million! 

What I have is an Echo Gina 3g, plenty of ins/outs, and I have also
wondered if the BCF shouldn't go straight into it instead of USB. But
now I'm a lot clearer (I think) on the fact that B-Controls aren't
about controlling through my MIDI interface, but controlling my
software directly. Am I near the mark?

best,
Mike.

PS the controller pedal is in the BCF controller jack - I don't have
the BCR yet and understood there are only switch jacks on it. I have
tried to get the pedal to control a VST effect thru the BCF but no
luck yet - I think I just haven't got things communicating properly yet.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, sr <listall@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Mike!
> 
> Don't feel too bad. A lot of us are busy I guess. I know I am.
> 
> There is no real problem with running both a BCR and a BCF at the
same time.
> You don't have to worry about chaining the two together with MIDI,
just plug
> them both into any spare USB ports you have on your mainboard. If
you've not
> got any spare, use a USB hub. Both operate as independent devices.
> 
> It sounds to me like you want to run the BCF in Mackie emulation
mode (for
> the mixing ability) and the BCR running in preset mode. If the
question is
> about the best way to mix with the BCF, then there are an infinite
variety
> of answers. Mackie emulation works good enough, and is compatible with a
> broad range of software. But you could also configure your audio/MIDI
> sequencer manually too, which I think is what many of us try when we hit
> several shortcomings with the Mackie emulation.
> 
> Not sure what the expression pedal does in Mackie mode, but I think you
> might be right if you want it to control some soft synth. Plug it
into the
> BCR to use it as a generic controller.
> 
> Hope this helps....
> 
> 
> graham
>
Thanks Graham, between you and Royce I am getting clearer on a lot of
things. I will definitely go for the BCR now, and use USB rather than
chaining since as you say they are going to be used for completely
different functions. You've saved me several dollars on two new MIDI
cables! All the best,

Mike.

Hi Mike

> Royce, this covers most of what I was wondering, i.e. should I chain
> the BCR and BCF. As you say, I am intending to use them for entirely
> different functions, so your reply makes perfect sense. I apologize if
> I came off as whiny, and thanks a million!

That's OK. It can be bit hard to take, yelling into the void and not
even hearing an echo.
Sorry I didn't reply sooner.

>
> What I have is an Echo Gina 3g, plenty of ins/outs, and I have also
> wondered if the BCF shouldn't go straight into it instead of USB. But
> now I'm a lot clearer (I think) on the fact that B-Controls aren't
> about controlling through my MIDI interface, but controlling my
> software directly. Am I near the mark?

It's really about how the software implements the control surface
features.
Sonar, with it's ACT tries to pass the controller info to the active
window. Perhaps that is a VST synth, perhaps it is the track window, but
I find it does work all that well.
With 2 controllers you can lock one controller to the VST synth and the
other to the transport. That's what I do with my Tranzport and BCR.
If you have more than one application running at the same time (perhaps
connected using ReWire) you could have a controller connected to each so
the MIDI ports would not clash and you could apply real time control no
matter what was the active window. I don't know. Try it and let me know.

Perhaps others can comment on Cuebase or Logic

The thing is you have a choice (probably too many) .

When witting the editor I discovered that the MIDI ports process data
much faster and I had to slow down the sysex transfer so it could be
read on either the MIDI port or the USB. So this may or may not be a
factor.
I only have a BCR and so can't really advise you except to say how I
would start.

Do let the group know what you find works best for you .
Every situation is different and the more examples we have the better
the solution for someone else.

> PS the controller pedal is in the BCF controller jack - I don't have
> the BCR yet and understood there are only switch jacks on it. I have
> tried to get the pedal to control a VST effect thru the BCF but no
> luck yet - I think I just haven't got things communicating properly
yet.

Have you had a look with MidiOx to see if you are getting any MIDI out?

Does anyone know how to program the continious controller jack on the
BCF?
Is it treaded like a Fader?

All the best

Royce

I've a BCF; unfortunately, not a proper pedal to work the foot 
controller. However, I was able to apply primitive DC voltages, and 
to see that the control indeed operates as a fader, like the other 8 
faders.

Actually, it is programmable identically to the other faders (as is 
also indicated by Behringer's B-control editor) - and so is amenable 
to sending all sorts of messages.

I've no idea what a recommended foot controller voltage range might 
be.

Art Hunkins

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike
> 
> > Royce, this covers most of what I was wondering, i.e. should I 
chain
> > the BCR and BCF. As you say, I am intending to use them for 
entirely
> > different functions, so your reply makes perfect sense. I 
apologize if
> > I came off as whiny, and thanks a million!
> 
> That's OK. It can be bit hard to take, yelling into the void and not
> even hearing an echo.
> Sorry I didn't reply sooner.
> 
> >
> > What I have is an Echo Gina 3g, plenty of ins/outs, and I have 
also
> > wondered if the BCF shouldn't go straight into it instead of USB. 
But
> > now I'm a lot clearer (I think) on the fact that B-Controls aren't
> > about controlling through my MIDI interface, but controlling my
> > software directly. Am I near the mark?
> 
> It's really about how the software implements the control surface
> features.
> Sonar, with it's ACT tries to pass the controller info to the active
> window. Perhaps that is a VST synth, perhaps it is the track 
window, but
> I find it does work all that well.
> With 2 controllers you can lock one controller to the VST synth and 
the
> other to the transport. That's what I do with my Tranzport and BCR.
> If you have more than one application running at the same time 
(perhaps
> connected using ReWire) you could have a controller connected to 
each so
> the MIDI ports would not clash and you could apply real time 
control no
> matter what was the active window. I don't know. Try it and let me 
know.
> 
> Perhaps others can comment on Cuebase or Logic
> 
> The thing is you have a choice (probably too many) .
> 
> When witting the editor I discovered that the MIDI ports process 
data
> much faster and I had to slow down the sysex transfer so it could be
> read on either the MIDI port or the USB. So this may or may not be a
> factor.
> I only have a BCR and so can't really advise you except to say how I
> would start.
> 
> Do let the group know what you find works best for you .
> Every situation is different and the more examples we have the 
better
> the solution for someone else.
> 
> > PS the controller pedal is in the BCF controller jack - I don't 
have
> > the BCR yet and understood there are only switch jacks on it. I 
have
> > tried to get the pedal to control a VST effect thru the BCF but no
> > luck yet - I think I just haven't got things communicating 
properly
> yet.
> 
> Have you had a look with MidiOx to see if you are getting any MIDI 
out?
> 
> Does anyone know how to program the continious controller jack on 
the

> BCF?
> Is it treaded like a Fader?
> 
> All the best
> 
> Royce
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "abhunkin" <abhunkin@...> wrote:
>
> I've a BCF; unfortunately, not a proper pedal to work the foot 
> controller. However, I was able to apply primitive DC voltages, and 
> to see that the control indeed operates as a fader, like the other 8 
> faders.
> 
> Actually, it is programmable identically to the other faders (as is 
> also indicated by Behringer's B-control editor) - and so is amenable 
> to sending all sorts of messages.
> 
> I've no idea what a recommended foot controller voltage range might 
> be.
> 
> Art Hunkins
> 

Hmm, what I have here Art is a Roland MIDI foot pedal, and plugged
into the BCF controller jack it causes value changes in the LED
display when I rock the pedal. Intersting, but as I say, no luck
getting a VST effect (wah effect is my example as it's what I most
want to use it for) to respond. I'm on it though...

Without knowing much about your situation, I'd suspect that you're 
sending MIDI messages to the foot controller input rather than DC 
voltages.

You might want to go directly into your computer with your Roland 
data, or use the MIDI thru on the BCF.

Maybe Royce can help you more with this.

Art Hunkins

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "mhanderson48" <mhanderson48@...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "abhunkin" <abhunkin@> wrote:
> >
> > I've a BCF; unfortunately, not a proper pedal to work the foot 
> > controller. However, I was able to apply primitive DC voltages, 
and 
> > to see that the control indeed operates as a fader, like the 
other 8 
> > faders.
> > 
> > Actually, it is programmable identically to the other faders (as 
is 
> > also indicated by Behringer's B-control editor) - and so is 
amenable 
> > to sending all sorts of messages.
> > 
> > I've no idea what a recommended foot controller voltage range 
might 

> > be.
> > 
> > Art Hunkins
> > 
> 
> Hmm, what I have here Art is a Roland MIDI foot pedal, and plugged
> into the BCF controller jack it causes value changes in the LED
> display when I rock the pedal. Intersting, but as I say, no luck
> getting a VST effect (wah effect is my example as it's what I most
> want to use it for) to respond. I'm on it though...
>

What sort of Midi pedal is it?
A FC-200 pedal board or a PK-5 or a  sustain pedal like a DP-8

> > Hmm, what I have here Art is a Roland MIDI foot pedal, and plugged
> > into the BCF controller jack it causes value changes in the LED
> > display when I rock the pedal. Intersting, but as I say, no luck
> > getting a VST effect (wah effect is my example as it's what I most
> > want to use it for) to respond. I'm on it though...
> >
>