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CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?

CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?

2011-05-30 by dchang813

Hi--

I've been looking for a way to combine the AC voltages from two separate piezo transducers such that I can detect when both have been struck at the same time. The analog AND feature of the CGS26 seems perfect, but considering that the waveforms of drum triggers are typically very short spikes (sudden high jump in voltage that disappears within milliseconds or possibly shorter), it raises the question of--for lack of a better phrase--"time slice resolution."

That is to say:

Is there a time-slice resolution unit under which a few-millisecond voltage spike in the waveform wouldn't be conveyed to the AND output?


I'm guessing no, since the analog AND should be able to combine waveforms with very high audible frequencies, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask before I order. I guess other rewordings of the question are whether or not the waveform created by a piezo transducer being struck is an audible frequency or if the highest frequency the CGS26 is high enough to capture the waveform of the trigger strike.

Thanks--looking forward to hearing from you and subsequently trying this board out!

Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?

2011-05-30 by cg_synth

I doubt the two drum signals would coincide for long enough to generate a useful output. I'd suggest firing off some sort of monostable and using a logic gate connected to that.

Ken
Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "dchang813" <dchang813@...> wrote:
>
> Hi--
>
> I've been looking for a way to combine the AC voltages from two separate piezo transducers such that I can detect when both have been struck at the same time. The analog AND feature of the CGS26 seems perfect, but considering that the waveforms of drum triggers are typically very short spikes (sudden high jump in voltage that disappears within milliseconds or possibly shorter), it raises the question of--for lack of a better phrase--"time slice resolution."
>
> That is to say:
>
> Is there a time-slice resolution unit under which a few-millisecond voltage spike in the waveform wouldn't be conveyed to the AND output?
>
>
> I'm guessing no, since the analog AND should be able to combine waveforms with very high audible frequencies, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask before I order. I guess other rewordings of the question are whether or not the waveform created by a piezo transducer being struck is an audible frequency or if the highest frequency the CGS26 is high enough to capture the waveform of the trigger strike.
>
> Thanks--looking forward to hearing from you and subsequently trying this board out!
>

Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?

2011-05-30 by Dennis Chang

Hmm, I was hoping that the AND would join the intersection between the spike
waveforms. Let's imagine two identical perfectly triangular spikes with 30V
peaks but spaced 1ms apart. The bottom of the "valley" formed by the overlap of
the waveforms (the tip of the resulting AND waveform) could be, say, 20V, enough
to trigger a MIDI note if I set the sensitivity on the brain low enough.

But your other suggestion is a good one, and I'll investigate that too. Thanks,
Ken!

Dennis.



________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: cg_synth <sasami@...>
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 11:18:46 PM
Subject: [cgs_synth] Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?


I doubt the two drum signals would coincide for long enough to generate a useful
output. I'd suggest firing off some sort of monostable and using a logic gate
connected to that.

Ken

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "dchang813" <dchang813@...> wrote:
>
> Hi--
>
> I've been looking for a way to combine the AC voltages from two separate piezo
>transducers such that I can detect when both have been struck at the same time.
>The analog AND feature of the CGS26 seems perfect, but considering that the
>waveforms of drum triggers are typically very short spikes (sudden high jump in
>voltage that disappears within milliseconds or possibly shorter), it raises the
>question of--for lack of a better phrase--"time slice resolution."
>
> That is to say:
>
> Is there a time-slice resolution unit under which a few-millisecond voltage
>spike in the waveform wouldn't be conveyed to the AND output?
>
>
> I'm guessing no, since the analog AND should be able to combine waveforms with
>very high audible frequencies, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask before I
>order. I guess other rewordings of the question are whether or not the waveform
>created by a piezo transducer being struck is an audible frequency or if the
>highest frequency the CGS26 is high enough to capture the waveform of the
>trigger strike.
>
> Thanks--looking forward to hearing from you and subsequently trying this board
>out!
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?

2011-05-31 by Dennis Chang

I took a look at the monostable approach. It made me realize that I forgot to
mention that the drum triggers are velocity sensitive. That is to say, the
voltage waveform should be preserved and passed through to the MIDI brain. A
monostable with logic gate wouldn't work, whereas the Analog Logic AND should
(unless I'm misunderstanding it) pass through the exact ANDed waveform.



________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: cg_synth <sasami@...>
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 11:18:46 PM
Subject: [cgs_synth] Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?


I doubt the two drum signals would coincide for long enough to generate a useful
output. I'd suggest firing off some sort of monostable and using a logic gate
connected to that.

Ken

--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "dchang813" <dchang813@...> wrote:
>
> Hi--
>
> I've been looking for a way to combine the AC voltages from two separate piezo
>transducers such that I can detect when both have been struck at the same time.
>The analog AND feature of the CGS26 seems perfect, but considering that the
>waveforms of drum triggers are typically very short spikes (sudden high jump in
>voltage that disappears within milliseconds or possibly shorter), it raises the
>question of--for lack of a better phrase--"time slice resolution."
>
> That is to say:
>
> Is there a time-slice resolution unit under which a few-millisecond voltage
>spike in the waveform wouldn't be conveyed to the AND output?
>
>
> I'm guessing no, since the analog AND should be able to combine waveforms with
>very high audible frequencies, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask before I
>order. I guess other rewordings of the question are whether or not the waveform
>created by a piezo transducer being struck is an audible frequency or if the
>highest frequency the CGS26 is high enough to capture the waveform of the
>trigger strike.
>
> Thanks--looking forward to hearing from you and subsequently trying this board
>out!
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?

2011-05-31 by sasami@hotkey.net.au

Oh, so the drum triggers are a processed waveform containing velocity and
perhaps some sort of envelope?
In that case the CGS26 may do what you want.

Ken
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I took a look at the monostable approach. It made me realize that I forgot to
>mention that the drum triggers are velocity sensitive. That is to say, the
>voltage waveform should be preserved and passed through to the MIDI brain. A
>monostable with logic gate wouldn't work, whereas the Analog Logic AND should
>(unless I'm misunderstanding it) pass through the exact ANDed waveform.
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: cg_synth <sasami@...>
>To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 11:18:46 PM
>Subject: [cgs_synth] Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?
>
>
>I doubt the two drum signals would coincide for long enough to generate a
useful
>output. I'd suggest firing off some sort of monostable and using a logic gate
>connected to that.
>
>Ken
>
>--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "dchang813" <dchang813@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi--
>>
>> I've been looking for a way to combine the AC voltages from two separate
piezo
>>transducers such that I can detect when both have been struck at the same
time.
>>The analog AND feature of the CGS26 seems perfect, but considering that the
>>waveforms of drum triggers are typically very short spikes (sudden high
jump in
>>voltage that disappears within milliseconds or possibly shorter), it
raises the
>>question of--for lack of a better phrase--"time slice resolution."
>>
>> That is to say:
>>
>> Is there a time-slice resolution unit under which a few-millisecond voltage
>>spike in the waveform wouldn't be conveyed to the AND output?
>>
>>
>> I'm guessing no, since the analog AND should be able to combine waveforms
with
>>very high audible frequencies, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask before I
>>order. I guess other rewordings of the question are whether or not the
waveform
>>created by a piezo transducer being struck is an audible frequency or if the
>>highest frequency the CGS26 is high enough to capture the waveform of the
>>trigger strike.
>>
>> Thanks--looking forward to hearing from you and subsequently trying this
board
>>out!
>>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>

Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?

2011-05-31 by Dennis Chang

Yes, the signal being fed into your CGS26 won't be processed per se--it'll be
raw voltage waveforms directly from the transducers--but it definitely has a
shape that is later processed by the brain and formed into a MIDI envelope.

I'll order a CGS26 right away and start tinkering. This could solve a huge
problem for electronic drummers, as current e-drum technology doesn't simulate
snare drum or hi-hat behavior very well at all. It changes the way we play in
ways that don't translate over to a real drumset.

Thanks, Ken!



________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "sasami@..." <sasami@...>
To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, May 30, 2011 10:42:55 PM
Subject: Re: [cgs_synth] Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?


Oh, so the drum triggers are a processed waveform containing velocity and
perhaps some sort of envelope?
In that case the CGS26 may do what you want.

Ken

>I took a look at the monostable approach. It made me realize that I forgot to
>mention that the drum triggers are velocity sensitive. That is to say, the
>voltage waveform should be preserved and passed through to the MIDI brain. A
>monostable with logic gate wouldn't work, whereas the Analog Logic AND should
>(unless I'm misunderstanding it) pass through the exact ANDed waveform.
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: cg_synth <sasami@...>
>To: cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 11:18:46 PM
>Subject: [cgs_synth] Re: CGS26 analog logic for electronic drum triggering?
>
>
>I doubt the two drum signals would coincide for long enough to generate a
useful
>output. I'd suggest firing off some sort of monostable and using a logic gate
>connected to that.
>
>Ken
>
>--- In cgs_synth@yahoogroups.com, "dchang813" <dchang813@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi--
>>
>> I've been looking for a way to combine the AC voltages from two separate
piezo
>>transducers such that I can detect when both have been struck at the same
time.
>>The analog AND feature of the CGS26 seems perfect, but considering that the
>>waveforms of drum triggers are typically very short spikes (sudden high
jump in
>>voltage that disappears within milliseconds or possibly shorter), it
raises the
>>question of--for lack of a better phrase--"time slice resolution."
>>
>> That is to say:
>>
>> Is there a time-slice resolution unit under which a few-millisecond voltage
>>spike in the waveform wouldn't be conveyed to the AND output?
>>
>>
>> I'm guessing no, since the analog AND should be able to combine waveforms
with
>>very high audible frequencies, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask before I
>>order. I guess other rewordings of the question are whether or not the
waveform
>>created by a piezo transducer being struck is an audible frequency or if the
>>highest frequency the CGS26 is high enough to capture the waveform of the
>>trigger strike.
>>
>> Thanks--looking forward to hearing from you and subsequently trying this
board
>>out!
>>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>The CGS Modular Synth home page: http://www.cgs.synth.net/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
Ken Stone sasami@... otherunicorn@...
Modular Synth PCBs for sale <http://www.cgs.synth.net/>
Australian Miniature Horses & Ponies <http://www.blaze.net.au/~sasami/>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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