Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Will there be a reduced price upgrade program for current owners? 
Specifically interested in the Spyder3Studio. 

You (Colorvision/Datacolor) seem to be getting a somewhat bad rap here:

http://tinyurl.com/2dm99q

PJS
Wichita, KS
www.oegallery.com/BlueWhaleProductions
no habla mac........

Thanks for the response.  Nice post on Dpreview, by the way......

pjs
wichita, ks


> This is hardware, so the concept of an "upgrade" is a bit 
questionable. Once initial demand is caught up with, there will 
probably a user loyalty offer; we have provided those in the past, to 
existing users.

> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager

pjs
"kansas - the flat & happy state"
Fine Art Prints by Patrick
Digital Reproduction of Original Fine Art
www.oegallery.com/BlueWhaleProductions
no habla mac J

On 22-Oct-07, at 9:19 AM, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
>
>  Thanks. You might mean their nice coverage of our Spyder3 launch 
> materials; but I suspect you mean my forum reply to the person who had 
> just bought our old suite, and was unhappy about the new one coming 
> out the minute he'd done that...
>
>

yup, it's all in the timing. personally i'm still fond of PFP v1.0 (i 
got it shortly after it was released) . it was such a relief knowing i 
could confidently predict output using a system that didn't break the 
bank. now i profile regularly! i still have to start using the extended 
gray targets in PFP v2. this is the area of color management that is 
the most problematic for me - effective proofing of black density and 
mid-tone grays/values in color images. i'm hoping the gray target will 
improve my soft proof/output congruency. right now i'm going to profile 
the new S3P and scope the new profile preview. am i able to make a 
print from it before committing to the icc?

ghi

For most people, it is probably choice between Spyder and Eye-One Display - both are similarly priced and seem to be of roughly comparable quality. It is with

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
> Lets see, in the last week we have, with no obligation, given you a
free copy 
> of our new software, to use with your older device. Thats more than
you would 
> get from anyone else in the industry. And we'll upgrade you to a
dual binary 
> version once it ships as well. I'd say your comfort level with your
choice 
> should be pretty high.

Thank you for clarifying that. You may want to consider publishing
this information on your website - a reasonable assumption on the part
of a prospective purchaser or current user is that if you are keeping
mum, you don't plan on doing anything about it.

I understand challenges of programming for multiple platforms and
trying to keep code base the same - I have owned PCs and Macs for 20
years and have programmed on both platforms professionally and for
fun. You may have excellent color programmers, but it is still irksome
when things are done "wrong". For example, why are preferences saved
in the same folder as the app? What happens when current user doesn't
have rights to the installation folder? It should be in
~/Library/Preferences/. When a sophisticated user looks at it, they
have a perception that it is put together less then properly,
regardless of whether it ultimately produces good profiles or not.
While I've seen a lot worse, I believe this is one of the areas where
you could make your products stand out - I haven't seen anything
particularly impressive from the competition either.

Where do we stand on support for bugs in current version in
Spyder2PRO? It doesn't seem that calibrating works with imported
curves, at least under Rosetta. I assume few of your users care for
that feature since nobody on the list said it works or doesn't work
for them. I am also able to lock the interface by some combination of
going half way through "wizard" interface, and pulling and dismissing
one or two of dialog boxes from menus, at which point the buttons stop
responding (and get a "funny" bugged look... a lighter gray rectangle
appears bellow rounded buttons and clicks are not recognized any more
- have to kill the app). If you care to fix it, I could probably
figure out the exact sequence of events next time I use it. If you are
interested in crash report from calibrating with custom curve loaded,
you can see it here: http://www.cognistudio.com/spyder2pro_crash.txt
although by looking at it, it seems any useful info is hidden behind
layers of Rosetta - and this is where my concern about PPC vs Intel
started - wondering whether it would simply work if it were compiled
as a Universal Binary. You did indicate that it worked when you tested
it some time ago - don't have your exact statement handy, but it
sounded like it may have been before Mac Intel switch?

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
> In a message dated 10/22/07 6:42:56 PM, marko.mili@... writes:
> As a professional programmer, I would expect you to understand that most of 
> what you cover in your post would be much more appropriate in a private 
> correspondence than on a list. As such, I won't be covering it here.

If a user said that my app was crashing (I originally brought up this problem on Aug 31 in 
a post titled "Linear Grayscale crash in Spyder2PRO", and didn't immediately try to 
continue to discuss it, since I had just received your product 2 days prior and was still 
trying to figure out details of its operation), my response woldn't be simply that we tested 
it and it works, implying that it is user's problem. If I were then told that it is confirmed to 
crash on 2 different computers while performing a particular function, I would think that it 
may very well be an actual problem and ask for more info or direct the user to other 
channels. An opportunity lost, perhaps.

This, after all, is a public forum for discussion about colorvision products, and I see it as 
perfectly appropriate to point out warts and gems alike. My objectives, along with most 
other participants here I suspect, are to enhance my own use of the product, try to benefit 
others by conveying my experiences with it, and even simply to satisfy curiosity about the 
products for no immedate practical benefit. Frankly, as a user I can't imagine many 
situations where I would feel I ought to keep this private, and if my conclusions are 
uninformed, wrong, or even outright stupid, I expect someone will offer a correction. I can 
fully appreciate that you would rather have critical conversations not take place, and the 
great thing about the Internet is that you can decline to participate in them, as you have 
chosen.

Cheers.

Spoken like a true Mac user, misspellings and all <VBG>.......

pjs
"kansas - the flat & happy state"
Fine Art Prints by Patrick
Digital Reproduction of Original Fine Art
www.oegallery.com/BlueWhaleProductions
no habla mac :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: marko.mili
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:38 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: Upgrade Program?


If a user said that my app was crashing (I originally brought up this
problem on Aug 31 in
a post titled "Linear Grayscale crash in Spyder2PRO", and didn't immediately
try to
continue to discuss it, since I had just received your product 2 days prior
and was still
trying to figure out details of its operation), my response woldn't be
simply that we tested
it and it works, implying that it is user's problem. If I were then told
that it is confirmed to
crash on 2 different computers while performing a particular function, I
would think that it
may very well be an actual problem and ask for more info or direct the user
to other
channels. An opportunity lost, perhaps.

This, after all, is a public forum for discussion about colorvision
products, and I see it as
perfectly appropriate to point out warts and gems alike. My objectives,
along with most
other participants here I suspect, are to enhance my own use of the product,
try to benefit
others by conveying my experiences with it, and even simply to satisfy
curiosity about the
products for no immedate practical benefit. Frankly, as a user I can't
imagine many
situations where I would feel I ought to keep this private, and if my
conclusions are
uninformed, wrong, or even outright stupid, I expect someone will offer a
correction. I can
fully appreciate that you would rather have critical conversations not take
place, and the
great thing about the Internet is that you can decline to participate in
them, as you have
chosen.

Cheers.

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
> In a message dated 10/23/07 12:38:14 AM, marko.mili@... writes:
> > I originally brought up this problem on Aug 31 in
> > a post titled "Linear Grayscale crash in Spyder2PRO"
> 
> This bug is fixed in an update available here:
> 
> ftp://software:5067ware@.../mac/Spyder2/Spyder2PRO_2.3.1_Installer.zip
> 
> This should cover your L-Star issue as well. The universal rule is go to the 
> company in question's website, and download the latest version of the 
> software. If the bug still occurs contact their tech support. You don't appear to have 
> done either.

As you are well aware, the latest version available right now for OSX on 
http://www.colorvision.com/dl_software.php is Spyder2PRO 2.2, dated March 30, 2006. 
And it says: "This page contains the latest updates for ColorVision's color management 
software." Perhaps you shouldn't keep updates secret, and we wouldn't be having this 
conversation.

All that said, you have my thanks for looking into it. I'll test it later today.

I  agree 100%.  That is a very clear purpose of forums such as this, which 
is quite different, in purpose and result, than contacting the manufacturers 
site.

David Pal


*********************************

This, after all, is a public forum for discussion about colorvision 
products, and I see it as
perfectly appropriate to point out warts and gems alike.




----- Original Message ----- 

From: "marko.mili" <marko.mili@...>
To: <colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: Upgrade Program?


> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>> In a message dated 10/22/07 6:42:56 PM, marko.mili@... writes:
>> As a professional programmer, I would expect you to understand that most 
>> of
>> what you cover in your post would be much more appropriate in a private
>> correspondence than on a list. As such, I won't be covering it here.
>
> If a user said that my app was crashing (I originally brought up this 
> problem on Aug 31 in
> a post titled "Linear Grayscale crash in Spyder2PRO", and didn't 
> immediately try to
> continue to discuss it, since I had just received your product 2 days 
> prior and was still
> trying to figure out details of its operation), my response woldn't be 
> simply that we tested
> it and it works, implying that it is user's problem. If I were then told 
> that it is confirmed to
> crash on 2 different computers while performing a particular function, I 
> would think that it
> may very well be an actual problem and ask for more info or direct the 
> user to other
> channels. An opportunity lost, perhaps.
>
> This, after all, is a public forum for discussion about colorvision 
> products, and I see it as
> perfectly appropriate to point out warts and gems alike. My objectives, 
> along with most
> other participants here I suspect, are to enhance my own use of the 
> product, try to benefit
> others by conveying my experiences with it, and even simply to satisfy 
> curiosity about the
> products for no immedate practical benefit. Frankly, as a user I can't 
> imagine many
> situations where I would feel I ought to keep this private, and if my 
> conclusions are
> uninformed, wrong, or even outright stupid, I expect someone will offer a 
> correction. I can
> fully appreciate that you would rather have critical conversations not 
> take place, and the
> great thing about the Internet is that you can decline to participate in 
> them, as you have
> chosen.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

If you have a problem/solution etc. Yes. If you want to discuss programing which most folks, I suspect wouldn't have a clue as to what you're talking about and probably could care less, No! I personally could give a damn about the programing underlying a product and am more concerned about tips, tricks and solutions. My 2 cents. :-)

Walt

>-----Original Message-----
>From: magickPal [mailto:magick246@...]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 08:11 AM
>To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Upgrade Program?
>
>I  agree 100%.  That is a very clear purpose of forums such as this, which 
>is quite different, in purpose and result, than contacting the manufacturers 
>site.
>
>David Pal
>
>
>*********************************
>
>This, after all, is a public forum for discussion about colorvision 
>products, and I see it as
>perfectly appropriate to point out warts and gems alike.
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "marko.mili" <marko.mili@...>
>To: <colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:37 PM
>Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: Upgrade Program?
>
>
>> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>>> In a message dated 10/22/07 6:42:56 PM, marko.mili@... writes:
>>> As a professional programmer, I would expect you to understand that most 
>>> of
>>> what you cover in your post would be much more appropriate in a private
>>> correspondence than on a list. As such, I won't be covering it here.
>>
>> If a user said that my app was crashing (I originally brought up this 
>> problem on Aug 31 in
>> a post titled "Linear Grayscale crash in Spyder2PRO", and didn't 
>> immediately try to
>> continue to discuss it, since I had just received your product 2 days 
>> prior and was still
>> trying to figure out details of its operation), my response woldn't be 
>> simply that we tested
>> it and it works, implying that it is user's problem. If I were then told 
>> that it is confirmed to
>> crash on 2 different computers while performing a particular function, I 
>> would think that it
>> may very well be an actual problem and ask for more info or direct the 
>> user to other
>> channels. An opportunity lost, perhaps.
>>
>> This, after all, is a public forum for discussion about colorvision 
>> products, and I see it as
>> perfectly appropriate to point out warts and gems alike. My objectives, 
>> along with most
>> other participants here I suspect, are to enhance my own use of the 
>> product, try to benefit
>> others by conveying my experiences with it, and even simply to satisfy 
>> curiosity about the
>> products for no immedate practical benefit. Frankly, as a user I can't 
>> imagine many
>> situations where I would feel I ought to keep this private, and if my 
>> conclusions are
>> uninformed, wrong, or even outright stupid, I expect someone will offer a 
>> correction. I can
>> fully appreciate that you would rather have critical conversations not 
>> take place, and the
>> great thing about the Internet is that you can decline to participate in 
>> them, as you have
>> chosen.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

If you want a general discussion of warts and gems - these lists are fine. 
But if you want action on your problem, far better to contact support and 
get it sorted.

Although CDT is obviously a talented, multi-tasking senior manager, he isn't 
a one-man support department!

Bob Frost.


----- Original Message ----- 

From: "magickPal" <magick246@...>


>I  agree 100%.  That is a very clear purpose of forums such as this, which
> is quite different, in purpose and result, than contacting the 
> manufacturers
> site.

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "marko.mili" <marko.mili@...> wrote:
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@ wrote:
> > This bug is fixed in an update available here:
> > 
> > ftp://software:5067ware@/mac/Spyder2/Spyder2PRO_2.3.1_Installer.zip
> 
> All that said, you have my thanks for looking into it. I'll test it later today.

Tested it and it works. Thanks for the update.

Again, I agree.  To me the lists are for open discussion.  Personally, I 
would often prefer within topic, but that depends on the site and the 
posters.  What I find offensive, is the rather self righteous policing by 
individuals who have a clearly disproportionate resistance to some things, 
that seems to go well beyond what they are protesting.   Sometimes even 
within topical parameters, it may not be what an individual might be 
interested in.  The obvious solution to not liking a particular drift, is 
not to read it.  No big deal.  One good example for me, is the 
EPSON_Printers group, which describes itself as a completely open forum. It 
is....... It is also the most informative site on Epson Printers and 
associated problems, techniques Etc., by very knowledgeable individuals. 
You can also get up to date on environmental issues, in the mix : )

That said, I have to commend Mr. Tobie on his extremely helpful responses to 
those that are having problems.  I know of no other profiling software 
company that has a person such as he to respond to the difficulties that 
many of us encounter in getting the fearsome descriptive "Color Management" 
under control.  I have learned much from his contributions and save a great 
many of them to a file. I would think that his contributions, regarding his 
product, to this and other websites, has brought many to purchasing that 
would not have without him. The success and example, set by his actions 
could be an example to other software manufacturers, who have the more 
typical hard nosed practices towards those who are merely trying to use 
their product for what it was designed for. This is why I chose Colorvision 
for myself.


David Pal






----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Bob Frost" <bob@...>
To: <colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Upgrade Program?


> If you want a general discussion of warts and gems - these lists are fine.
> But if you want action on your problem, far better to contact support and
> get it sorted.
>
> Although CDT is obviously a talented, multi-tasking senior manager, he 
> isn't
> a one-man support department!
>
> Bob Frost.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "magickPal" <magick246@...>
>
>
>>I  agree 100%.  That is a very clear purpose of forums such as this, which
>> is quite different, in purpose and result, than contacting the
>> manufacturers
>> site.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>