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ATI Catalyst drivers and monitor profile being deactivated

ATI Catalyst drivers and monitor profile being deactivated

2008-08-22 by tad_awa

I would like to suggest the addition of "Calibration On/Calibration 
Off" controls to the Spyder3Utility. Currently there is some 
problems with ATI Drivers (from at least Version 8.2 to current) in 
that upon closing the CCC (Catalyst Control Center)the monitor 
profile is "lost" and by opening Spyder3Elite 3.0.4 and clicking 
Actions>Calibration Off, followed by clicking Actions>Calibration On 
it reloads the monitor profile. This is repeatable and happens with 
Crossfire(X) on or off.

 I have done just a quick search to see if others are having issues 
with the ATI drivers in an attempt to locate a workaround. It 
appears that what ever the ATI drivers are doing the Spyder3Utility 
is unable to tell if the default profile (selected in Color 
Management, within the display properties) is indeed activated.

 Any information or advice you can provide would be greatly 
appreciated. Likewise, if you need more information from me, I would 
be happy to assist.

Windows XP SP2
ATI Catalyst drivers 8.8
Spyder3Studio

Thank you for your time in this matter and best regards,
Thomas Adams

Re: [colorvision_group] ATI Catalyst drivers and monitor profile being deactivated

2008-08-22 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 8/22/08 11:42:17 AM, ThomasHAdams@... writes:


I would like to suggest the addition of "Calibration On/Calibration
Off" controls to the Spyder3Utility. Currently there is some
problems with ATI Drivers (from at least Version 8.2 to current) in
that upon closing the CCC (Catalyst Control Center)the monitor
profile is "lost" and by opening Spyder3Elite 3.0.4 and clicking
Actions>Calibration Off, followed by clicking Actions>Calibration On
it reloads the monitor profile. This is repeatable and happens with
Crossfire(X) on or off.

I have done just a quick search to see if others are having issues
with the ATI drivers in an attempt to locate a workaround. It
appears that what ever the ATI drivers are doing the Spyder3Utility
is unable to tell if the default profile (selected in Color
Management, within the display properties) is indeed activated.

Any information or advice you can provide would be greatly
appreciated. Likewise, if you need more information from me, I would
be happy to assist.


Our recommendation is that you NOT LOAD videocard utilities, and if they are automatically loaded when installing drivers, that you REMOVE them, or at least NOT OPEN them or use them. No matter how often we explain to the videocard companies that the VLUT slots in their cards need to be untouched, in order for color management to function, they "forget" and utilize these same correction locations for adjustment functions offered in their utilities.

We are adding more aggressive functions to Spyder3Utility in the next update to attempt to correct such errors automatically in as many cases as possible, but the safest solution is to not load, open, or run any type of videocard utility on a color managed system. This advice is roughly equivalent to suggesting you not smoke, or carry an open flame in a fireworks factory... you can blow your color management skyhigh with such utilities, and if you care about managed color, you want nothing to do with these utilities.

Another Utility worth avoiding is called "Shades", which lowers the brightness of your screen... but it does so by writing new data to the videocard VLUTs, which loses you your color calibration.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3



**************
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

Re: ATI Catalyst drivers and monitor profile being deactivated

2008-08-28 by tad_awa

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:

 Our recommendation is that you NOT LOAD videocard utilities, and if 
they are automatically loaded when installing drivers, that you 
REMOVE them, or at least NOT OPEN them or use them. No matter how 
often we explain to the videocard companies that the VLUT slots in 
their cards need to be untouched, in order for color management to 
function, they "forget" and utilize these same correction locations 
for adjustment functions offered in their utilities. 

 We are adding more aggressive functions to Spyder3Utility in the 
next update to attempt to correct such errors automatically in as 
many cases as possible, but the safest solution is to not load, 
open, or run any type of videocard utility on a color managed 
system. This advice is roughly equivalent to suggesting you not 
smoke, or carry an open flame in a fireworks factory... you can blow 
your color management skyhigh with such utilities, and if you care 
about managed color, you want nothing to do with these utilities. 

 Another Utility worth avoiding is called "Shades", which lowers the 
brightness of your screen... but it does so by writing new data to 
the videocard VLUTs, which loses you your color calibration.
 
C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
-----------------------------------------------------------

Tobie,

Thank you for your reply and your advice. 

Some observations:

 When I open Spyder3Elite 3.0.4, I can choose Calibration Off. And 
the profile reverts back to the windows color management default 
profile. However, when I close Spyder3Elite 3.0.4 the profile then 
automatically reverts back to 6500k profile I have created in 
Spyder3Elite 3.0.4. Therefore in order to do this, I must leave the 
program running/minimized. This is due to the Spyder3Utility I 
believe, is this thinking correct?

 In Call of Duty 4, I get profiles switching back and fourth 
(default and 6500k) when the game changes maps etc. I believe this 
is during a vid(eo) restart in which case a gamma setting may be 
introduced, so that makes sense with your previous explanation about 
vLUT.

  However, I have noticed that if I have the Spyder3Elite 3.0.4 
program running, and select Calibration OFF, that it prevents the 
6500k profile from being loaded and I can open/close ATI CCC and 
play CoD4 without any changes to the current profile. I thought this 
was strange which is why when I originally posted I requested the 
addition of the Calibration on/off to the Spyder3Utility so that it 
would in fact give the same ability as having the Spyder3Elite 3.0.4 
application open and minimized. Apparently as written, the 
application has the ability to override the utility and maintain the 
default profile when a user does not wish to utilize a profile for a 
color managed workflow.

 I leave the Spyder3Utility running in taskbar 24/7. If I "kill" the 
Spyder3Utility in the taskbar, I am able to play games, and run ATI 
CCC without issue.  I have had some more time to experiment and 
would like to see the Calibration on/off  added to Spyder3Utility as 
well as the ability to load/unload/reset (to default from selected in
windows color management) profiles.  This would allow easy access to 
important functions. Allowing the user to select which profile is to 
be used. While adding the ability to turn calibration off when a 
profile for color managed workflow is not required and back on when 
it is required.

 I would really appreciate the added features, and I will be looking 
forward to an update to the utility. I would even be willing to test 
an alpha/beta if need be . Thank you for your time in this matter.

Best regards,
Thomas Adams

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: ATI Catalyst drivers and monitor profile being deactivated

2008-08-28 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 8/28/08 Thomas Adams writes:


Tobie,

Thank you for your reply and your advice.

>Some observations:

>When I open Spyder3Elite 3.0.4, I can choose Calibration Off. And
the profile reverts back to the windows color management default
profile. However, when I close Spyder3Elite 3.0.4 the profile then
automatically reverts back to 6500k profile I have created in
Spyder3Elite 3.0.4.


You are confusing the calibration data with the profile. When you choose "Calibration Off" its nulling out the calibration corrections to the videocard, not defaulting to a different ICC profile for the display. When you quit the application, a failsafe feature is reapplying the video corrections, so that your display is properly color managed.

Therefore in order to do this, I must leave the
program running/minimized. This is due to the Spyder3Utility I
believe, is this thinking correct?


Not exactly. What you are looking for is a way to leave the videocorrections off...

In Call of Duty 4, I get profiles switching back and fourth
(default and 6500k) when the game changes maps etc. I believe this
is during a vid(eo) restart in which case a gamma setting may be
introduced, so that makes sense with your previous explanation about
vLUT.


Ah, I see. This isn't profiles switching back and forth, its dualing banjos, with us setting the correct color corrections to the videocard, and them changing them, and us fixing them again, etc...

>However, I have noticed that if I have the Spyder3Elite 3.0.4
program running, and select Calibration OFF, that it prevents the
6500k profile from being loaded and I can open/close ATI CCC and
play CoD4 without any changes to the current profile.


What is happening is that you have the Utility off (since our main application is on) so it is not checking and correcting the video LUT calibration every minute. We are aware of this situation, and our next update will offer further options that will allow for what you want. But I have to say the same thing about games as I said earlier about video card utilities: they should not be messing with your LUTs, and you really shouldn't run such software on a serious color managed system. Not being a gamer, thats easy for me to say...

> I thought this
was strange which is why when I originally posted I requested the
addition of the Calibration on/off to the Spyder3Utility so that it
would in fact give the same ability as having the Spyder3Elite 3.0.4
application open and minimized. Apparently as written, the
application has the ability to override the utility and maintain the
default profile when a user does not wish to utilize a profile for a
color managed workflow.


Other than your continuing confusion between profiles and calibration data, yes, this is what we will be offering in the next dot upgrade.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@datacolor.com
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3


I leave the Spyder3Utility running in taskbar 24/7. If I "kill" the
Spyder3Utility in the taskbar, I am able to play games, and run ATI
CCC without issue. I have had some more time to experiment and
would like to see the Calibration on/off added to Spyder3Utility as
well as the ability to load/unload/reset (to default from selected in
windows color management) profiles. This would allow easy access to
important functions. Allowing the user to select which profile is to
be used. While adding the ability to turn calibration off when a
profile for color managed workflow is not required and back on when
it is required.

I would really appreciate the added features, and I will be looking
forward to an update to the utility. I would even be willing to test
an alpha/beta if need be . Thank you for your time in this matter.





**************
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

Re: ATI Catalyst drivers and monitor profile being deactivated

2008-08-29 by tad_awa

C. David Tobie,

 Thank you again for your time as well as the clarification and 
corrections. I will be looking forward to the update. As soon as my 
wife "O.K.'s" my Mac, I will have my Color Managed system all to its 
self :) Time to go and do some sweet talking ; ) 

I also really appreciate the ability to communicate on the Colorvision 
Group as well, a very useful tool.

Best regards,
Thomas Adams

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