Datacolor User to User Support Group.

I am about to make a purchase - can't decide if I need the Elite 
version, or if should use X-Rite Eye-One. I currently use Spyder2 on 
my older machine. My new machine runs Vista 64, will be printing to 
an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 from CS4

1.I do not need projector calibration - is that a large part of why 
the Elite package is so much more expensive than the Pro?

2.Spyder3 Pro cannot change B/W Luminance. How important is that?

 
3.I read a posoting saying that luminace calibration more important 
for LCDs - true?

4.Why should I get Spyder3 Elite instead of the X-rite Eye-One 
Dispaly 2?

I read a review that says Spyder3 Elite suffers  "Limited correction 
of luminance" compared to an LaCie Eye-One

For the price of Spyder3 Elite, I could get the X-rite Eye-one 
Display 2 calibrator - version 3.6 of the i1Match software is suposed 
to be Vista 64 compatible...


Thanks

Well, I'll see if I can answer this sufficiently from my iPhone...

First off: EyeOne Display2 is an older generation of calibrator; it  
has the sensors that were used in Spyder2 in it. Spyder3 has a lot of  
technical improvements, sampling a much larger area of the screen, at  
more color ranges, with more sensitivity, etc.

Next: Elite offers a lot more than projector calibration. It allows  
you to custom tune multiple displays to a closer match numerically, it  
offers L* calibration, calibearion to video standards, and more.

Pro does allow you to adjust white luminance to an appropriate range,  
it just doesn't offer numerical targetting of Luminance, as it's  
philosophy is to avoid numbers where possible.

Yes, luminance targetting is important with LCDs, as they are so  
bright, which requires adjustment for differing ambient luggt levels.

I'm not aware if any way that Spyder3 is limited in it's ability to  
target luminance, within the range of luminance control the monitor  
offers.

Spyder3 products are all Vista64 capable; for quite a while they were  
thme only calibrators that were.

Sorry my answers are out of order...

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Nov 15, 2008, at 2:14 PM, "madigan_bill" <madigan_bill@...>  
wrote:

> I am about to make a purchase - can't decide if I need the Elite
> version, or if should use X-Rite Eye-One. I currently use Spyder2 on
> my older machine. My new machine runs Vista 64, will be printing to
> an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 from CS4
>
> 1.I do not need projector calibration - is that a large part of why
> the Elite package is so much more expensive than the Pro?
>
> 2.Spyder3 Pro cannot change B/W Luminance. How important is that?
>
>
> 3.I read a posoting saying that luminace calibration more important
> for LCDs - true?
>
> 4.Why should I get Spyder3 Elite instead of the X-rite Eye-One
> Dispaly 2?
>
> I read a review that says Spyder3 Elite suffers  "Limited correction
> of luminance" compared to an LaCie Eye-One
>
> For the price of Spyder3 Elite, I could get the X-rite Eye-one
> Display 2 calibrator - version 3.6 of the i1Match software is suposed
> to be Vista 64 compatible...
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Oh, I just noticed it is the Lacie EyeOne that you were referring to  
on the luminance issue. Lacie has been marketing their proprietary  
calibrators, from various companies, for years as being superior. They  
are certainly more convenient, for the displays they are paired with,  
as they have automated adjustments, saving you from having to adjust  
the display controls yourself. How "limited" that makes the Spyder is  
a matter of how much it bothers you to adjust the luminance control  
yourself. Seems a rather thin advantage to me.

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Nov 15, 2008, at 2:14 PM, "madigan_bill" <madigan_bill@...>  
wrote:

> I am about to make a purchase - can't decide if I need the Elite
> version, or if should use X-Rite Eye-One. I currently use Spyder2 on
> my older machine. My new machine runs Vista 64, will be printing to
> an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 from CS4
>
> 1.I do not need projector calibration - is that a large part of why
> the Elite package is so much more expensive than the Pro?
>
> 2.Spyder3 Pro cannot change B/W Luminance. How important is that?
>
>
> 3.I read a posoting saying that luminace calibration more important
> for LCDs - true?
>
> 4.Why should I get Spyder3 Elite instead of the X-rite Eye-One
> Dispaly 2?
>
> I read a review that says Spyder3 Elite suffers  "Limited correction
> of luminance" compared to an LaCie Eye-One
>
> For the price of Spyder3 Elite, I could get the X-rite Eye-one
> Display 2 calibrator - version 3.6 of the i1Match software is suposed
> to be Vista 64 compatible...
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Thanks for your quick response. At this point I am leaning towards 
Spyder3 because of your/Datacolor responses to questions from this 
group. (I searched the x-rite site for hours trying to get info about 
Vista 64 compatibility. Found just one sentence - appears their 
latest drivers do support Vista 64 - but I shouldn't have to search 
for so long just to get such inadequate info.

Still not sure about advantage of Elite - Datacolor website appears 
to have little information about the advantage. 

You said Elite 
>"offers L* calibration, calibearion to video standards, and more."

QUESTION 1. What is L* calibration?

You said
> "Pro does allow you to adjust white luminance to an appropriate 
range,  it just doesn't offer numerical targetting of Luminance, as 
it's  philosophy is to avoid numbers where possible"

QUESTION 2. Can you give me more info about targetting luminance, and 
how/why the Elite solution is superior?

QUESTION 3. Can one uprgrade from Pro to Elite? Upgrade from either 
Pro or Elite to the Spyder3 Print package? (IF not, why not? I 
think x-rite offers upgrades from cheaper to more expensive, more 
inclusive solutions)

QUESTION 4. When installilng the Spyder3 software (which I assume I 
will download from your site) do I need to run it in "Compatibility 
mode"? or is the driver native 64-bit?

If you are interested in the website review that mentioned 
Spyder3's "Limited correction of luminance" you can email me directly

Thanks again for your quick response.




--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, Cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I'll see if I can answer this sufficiently from my iPhone...
> 
> First off: EyeOne Display2 is an older generation of calibrator; 
it  
> has the sensors that were used in Spyder2 in it. Spyder3 has a lot 
of  
> technical improvements, sampling a much larger area of the screen, 
at  
> more color ranges, with more sensitivity, etc.
> 
> Next: Elite offers a lot more than projector calibration. It 
allows  
> you to custom tune multiple displays to a closer match numerically, 
it  
> offers L* calibration, calibearion to video standards, and more.
> 
> Pro does allow you to adjust white luminance to an appropriate 
range,  
> it just doesn't offer numerical targetting of Luminance, as it's  
> philosophy is to avoid numbers where possible.
> 
> Yes, luminance targetting is important with LCDs, as they are so  
> bright, which requires adjustment for differing ambient luggt 
levels.
> 
> I'm not aware if any way that Spyder3 is limited in it's ability 
to  
> target luminance, within the range of luminance control the 
monitor  
> offers.
> 
> Spyder3 products are all Vista64 capable; for quite a while they 
were  
> thme only calibrators that were.
> 
> Sorry my answers are out of order...
> 
> C. D. Tobie
> WW Product Technology Mngr.
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> DataColor.com
> CDTobie@...
> 
> On Nov 15, 2008, at 2:14 PM, "madigan_bill" <madigan_bill@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > I am about to make a purchase - can't decide if I need the Elite
> > version, or if should use X-Rite Eye-One. I currently use Spyder2 
on
> > my older machine. My new machine runs Vista 64, will be printing 
to
> > an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 from CS4
> >
> > 1.I do not need projector calibration - is that a large part of 
why
> > the Elite package is so much more expensive than the Pro?
> >
> > 2.Spyder3 Pro cannot change B/W Luminance. How important is that?
> >
> >
> > 3.I read a posoting saying that luminace calibration more 
important
> > for LCDs - true?
> >
> > 4.Why should I get Spyder3 Elite instead of the X-rite Eye-One
> > Dispaly 2?
> >
> > I read a review that says Spyder3 Elite suffers  "Limited 
correction
> > of luminance" compared to an LaCie Eye-One
> >
> > For the price of Spyder3 Elite, I could get the X-rite Eye-one
> > Display 2 calibrator - version 3.6 of the i1Match software is 
suposed

> > to be Vista 64 compatible...
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

I'll try to answer all your questions in the morning, when I'm at a  
real computer...

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:02 AM, "madigan_bill" <madigan_bill@...>  
wrote:

> Thanks for your quick response. At this point I am leaning towards
> Spyder3 because of your/Datacolor responses to questions from this
> group. (I searched the x-rite site for hours trying to get info about
> Vista 64 compatibility. Found just one sentence - appears their
> latest drivers do support Vista 64 - but I shouldn't have to search
> for so long just to get such inadequate info.
>
> Still not sure about advantage of Elite - Datacolor website appears
> to have little information about the advantage.
>
> You said Elite
>> "offers L* calibration, calibearion to video standards, and more."
>
> QUESTION 1. What is L* calibration?
>
> You said
>> "Pro does allow you to adjust white luminance to an appropriate
> range,  it just doesn't offer numerical targetting of Luminance, as
> it's  philosophy is to avoid numbers where possible"
>
> QUESTION 2. Can you give me more info about targetting luminance, and
> how/why the Elite solution is superior?
>
> QUESTION 3. Can one uprgrade from Pro to Elite? Upgrade from either
> Pro or Elite to the Spyder3 Print package? (IF not, why not? I
> think x-rite offers upgrades from cheaper to more expensive, more
> inclusive solutions)
>
> QUESTION 4. When installilng the Spyder3 software (which I assume I
> will download from your site) do I need to run it in "Compatibility
> mode"? or is the driver native 64-bit?
>
> If you are interested in the website review that mentioned
> Spyder3's "Limited correction of luminance" you can email me directly
>
> Thanks again for your quick response.
>
>
>
>
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, Cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>>
>> Well, I'll see if I can answer this sufficiently from my iPhone...
>>
>> First off: EyeOne Display2 is an older generation of calibrator;
> it
>> has the sensors that were used in Spyder2 in it. Spyder3 has a lot
> of
>> technical improvements, sampling a much larger area of the screen,
> at
>> more color ranges, with more sensitivity, etc.
>>
>> Next: Elite offers a lot more than projector calibration. It
> allows
>> you to custom tune multiple displays to a closer match numerically,
> it
>> offers L* calibration, calibearion to video standards, and more.
>>
>> Pro does allow you to adjust white luminance to an appropriate
> range,
>> it just doesn't offer numerical targetting of Luminance, as it's
>> philosophy is to avoid numbers where possible.
>>
>> Yes, luminance targetting is important with LCDs, as they are so
>> bright, which requires adjustment for differing ambient luggt
> levels.
>>
>> I'm not aware if any way that Spyder3 is limited in it's ability
> to
>> target luminance, within the range of luminance control the
> monitor
>> offers.
>>
>> Spyder3 products are all Vista64 capable; for quite a while they
> were
>> thme only calibrators that were.
>>
>> Sorry my answers are out of order...
>>
>> C. D. Tobie
>> WW Product Technology Mngr.
>> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
>> DataColor.com
>> CDTobie@...
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2008, at 2:14 PM, "madigan_bill" <madigan_bill@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am about to make a purchase - can't decide if I need the Elite
>>> version, or if should use X-Rite Eye-One. I currently use Spyder2
> on
>>> my older machine. My new machine runs Vista 64, will be printing
> to
>>> an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 from CS4
>>>
>>> 1.I do not need projector calibration - is that a large part of
> why
>>> the Elite package is so much more expensive than the Pro?
>>>
>>> 2.Spyder3 Pro cannot change B/W Luminance. How important is that?
>>>
>>>
>>> 3.I read a posoting saying that luminace calibration more
> important
>>> for LCDs - true?
>>>
>>> 4.Why should I get Spyder3 Elite instead of the X-rite Eye-One
>>> Dispaly 2?
>>>
>>> I read a review that says Spyder3 Elite suffers  "Limited
> correction
>>> of luminance" compared to an LaCie Eye-One
>>>
>>> For the price of Spyder3 Elite, I could get the X-rite Eye-one
>>> Display 2 calibrator - version 3.6 of the i1Match software is
> suposed
>>> to be Vista 64 compatible...
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

Does Elite offer simple, less specific choices as well as the more 
specific, more technical choices you mention? The reviews with screen 
shots of the set-up process appear to include such options ("Elite 
allows you to specify your own luminance level, by candela value, 
instead of the simplified numberless version in Pro.") 

BTW, I had previously scrutinized the chart comparing Pro and Elite - 
the chart lists the differences, but does not explain why you would 
choose one over the other, why that difference matters, or how the 
different options would impact the calibration process.

Thanks

>
> 
> On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:02:47 AM, madigan_bill <madigan_bill@...> 
> wrote:
> 
> Still not sure about advantage of Elite - Datacolor website appears
> to have little information about the advantage.
> 
> Try this comparison chart:
> 
> <http://spyder.datacolor.com/s3compare.php>
> 
> 
> You said Elite
> > "offers L* calibration, calibearion to video standards, and more."
> 
> QUESTION 1. What is L* calibration?
> 
> L* is a non-gamma curve based on the eye's response to light, which 
is 
> used in scientific color spaces such as L*a*b*. The L* curve built 
> into Spyder3Elite emulates this non-gamma curve, and offers a 
> different response, with more shadow detail, which may suit your 
uses 
> better than a standard gamma curve. There is a fair amount about 
this 
> on the web if you google it, but a good deal of its in German, as 
> Germany is where L* is most popular.
> 
> 
> You said
> > "Pro does allow you to adjust white luminance to an appropriate 
> range,  it just doesn't offer numerical targetting of Luminance, as
> it's  philosophy is to avoid numbers where possible"
> 
> QUESTION 2. Can you give me more info about targetting luminance, 
and
> how/why the Elite solution is superior?
> 
> Pro checks your ambient light, in our five general ranges from dim 
to 
> very bright, then puts up a scale that allows you to adjust your 
> backlight to an appropiate level for your ambient light, so there 
are 
> only five levels, and two of those are not recommended (high and 
very 
> high). Elite allows you to specify your own luminance level, by 
> candela value, instead of the simplified numberless version in Pro. 
> This suits advanced users who know what a candela is, and what the 
> values mean. It would only add confusion for more basic users 
> unfamiliar with such these terms and scales.
> 
> 
> QUESTION 3. Can one uprgrade from Pro to Elite? Upgrade from either
> Pro or Elite to the Spyder3 Print package? (IF not, why not? I
> think x-rite offers upgrades from cheaper to more expensive, more
> inclusive solutions)
> 
> You can upgrade from Pro to Elite, send a note to our support 
ticket 
> system on the website for upgrading in the US. Other regions may 
vary 
> in how they do this. Pro or Elite to Print would not be an upgrade, 
> they are different products (like "upgrading" from a scanner to a 
> printer). You can buy both in a bundle, and save that way, or you 
can 
> buy them separately, in which case you don't get the bundle saving. 
> Take your pick. X-Rite's upgrades will be a lot more money than any 
of 
> our configurations.
> 
> 
> QUESTION 4. When installilng the Spyder3 software (which I assume I
> will download from your site) do I need to run it in "Compatibility
> mode"? or is the driver native 64-bit?
> 
> 64 bit drivers for Vista and XP included. In ten languages, with 
cross 
> compatible Windows and Mac serial numbers, while we're at it. Oh, 
and 
> Print will profile remote printers, which the ColorMunki does not 
do, 
> Print will profile Canon Pro printers, which the ColorMunki can't 
do, 
> and Pro and Elite will calibrate CRT displays, which the ColorMunki 
> can't do. There's a comparison chart for all of that on our website:
> 
> <But I can't put my finger on that particular one at the moment! >
> 
> And a comparison of manufacturer's specs of our spectro and other 
> devices on the market. The ColorMunki would be similar to, or 
perhaps 
> a bit less accurate than, the EyeOne spectro that its based on:
> 
> <http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-compare1005.php>
> 
> And while I'm posting URLs, here's one that compares Spyder2 to 
> Spyder3:
> 
> <http://spyder.datacolor.com/s3compare2.php>
> 
> 
> If you are interested in the website review that mentioned
> Spyder3's "Limited correction of luminance" you can email me 
directly

> Or you can email it to me directly... address below.
> 
> --
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/spyder3
>

Thanks - I am buying Elite - my decision due largely to your 
responses - nice to know that if I have questions, I will get a 
timely response.
--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
> 
> On Nov 24, 2008, at 10:38:50 AM, madigan_bill <madigan_bill@...> 
> wrote:
> 
> Does Elite offer simple, less specific choices as well as the more
> specific, more technical choices you mention?
> ___
> Yes, in fact you can set Elite to run just like Pro, for situations 
> where simplicity is the key virtue. But simply choosing "Gamma 
> 2.2/Whitepoint 6500" or some similar setting in Elite makes it 
simple, 
> without removing the other functionality where desired.
> 
>   The reviews with screen
> shots of the set-up process appear to include such options ("Elite
> allows you to specify your own luminance level, by candela value,
> instead of the simplified numberless version in Pro.")
> 
> BTW, I had previously scrutinized the chart comparing Pro and 
Elite -
> the chart lists the differences, but does not explain why you would
> choose one over the other, why that difference matters, or how the
> different options would impact the calibration process.
> Yes, the goal is a comparison chart, not an educational document on 
> all the functions and factors of display calibration and profiling. 
If 
> you download the PDF of the Help files for Elite from our website, 
you 

> can read what amounts to a whole book on the details and logic of 
> calibration and profiling. The Pro Help, by the way, is a subset of 
> the Elite Help, without the pages that relate to advanced tools and 
> advanced target options.
> --
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/spyder3
>