Datacolor User to User Support Group.

I am having difficulty calibrating with Spyder3 Elite.  I had previously used Spyder2PRO with good results before purchasing Spyder3 Elite.  Whenever I calibrate now, my monitor is flat, not vibrant, dull, pale.  My soft proofing to my photos which I print with profiles I make from PrintFix Pro is also off.  It is not my prints, they are fine.  I just can't get my monitor to calibrate well.  

When I go through the new display process using Spyder3 Elite, I think where I am getting into trouble is with the backlight control and the white luminance. I check the backlight control button because the brightness control on my monitor controls the backlight. When I reset to factory default, brightness goes to 50%. If I calibrate at this level, the monitor is much too bright and CIExyY measures about 250. When I check the ambient light recommendations, it suggests 5800 and 125. 125-130 has always been the white luminance value I have used in the past when I calibrated with Spyder2 and my monitor always looked good at this setting. It was recommended to use Colorimeter CIExyY to see my white luminance value and so I have in the past tried to adjust the brightness control to get a CIExyY value of about 125-130 when I calibrated. This way always worked well for me in the past with Spyder2.  When I do that now with Spyder3, my monitor is still pale, flat, not looking as I am used to it looking. So the problem is, do I leave the brightness at factory default, which really looks bad, or do I adjust my brightness control, and if so, to what level?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Matthew Kraus

On May 12, 2009, at 9:34 PM, tech4x5 wrote:

> I am having difficulty calibrating with Spyder3 Elite.  I had  
> previously used Spyder2PRO with good results before purchasing  
> Spyder3 Elite.  Whenever I calibrate now, my monitor is flat, not  
> vibrant, dull, pale.  My soft proofing to my photos which I print  
> with profiles I make from PrintFix Pro is also off.  It is not my  
> prints, they are fine.  I just can't get my monitor to calibrate well.
>
> When I go through the new display process using Spyder3 Elite, I  
> think where I am getting into trouble is with the backlight control  
> and the white luminance. I check the backlight control button  
> because the brightness control on my monitor controls the backlight.  
> When I reset to factory default, brightness goes to 50%. If I  
> calibrate at this level, the monitor is much too bright and CIExyY  
> measures about 250. When I check the ambient light recommendations,  
> it suggests 5800 and 125. 125-130 has always been the white  
> luminance value I have used in the past when I calibrated with  
> Spyder2 and my monitor always looked good at this setting. It was  
> recommended to use Colorimeter CIExyY to see my white luminance  
> value and so I have in the past tried to adjust the brightness  
> control to get a CIExyY value of about 125-130 when I calibrated.  
> This way always worked well for me in the past with Spyder2.  When I  
> do that now with Spyder3, my monitor is still pale, flat, not  
> looking as I am used to it looking. So the problem is, do I leave  
> the brightness at factory default, which really looks bad, or do I  
> adjust my brightness control, and if so, to what level?

What OS, and what application and app version are you viewing photos  
in? Have you just changed displays, or do you have profiles from the  
same display from both S2Pro and S3Elite? If so, lease email both to  
me off list in a zip archive. What display make and model? What color  
gamut does it claim, if it claims one?

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

Thanks for the reply.  You have always been extremely responsive and helpful.  My OS is Windows XP Home and I am using PS CS4.  I am using a Dell UltraSharp 2407 FPW-HC monitor and have been using it for over a year.  And my calibrations worked in the past with Spyder2 PRO on it.  It is the same display, but I have moved so my viewing area is obviously different.  The viewing environmemt seems visually to me to be about the same, but obviously it's not exact.  Spyder2 PRO revealed both my old and current viewing areas to be be moderately low and recommended 5800 and 125 cd/m2. 
     When you ask for profiles, do you mean the .icm profiles?  If so, I can send you a prior Spyder2 and a current Spyder3 Elite profile.  Please tell me how to get this to you.
     When using Spyder2 PRO previously, I ended up calibrating after first adjusting my Br control to get CIExxY value to be about 125-130.  When using Spyder3 Elite, I am just running it at the factory default settings with the brightness at 50%.  Could this make have anything to do with my problem?
     Just let me know how to get the profiles to you and I'll send them right away.  

Thanks,
Matthew Kraus



 --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On May 12, 2009, at 9:34 PM, tech4x5 wrote:
> 
> > I am having difficulty calibrating with Spyder3 Elite.  I had  
> > previously used Spyder2PRO with good results before purchasing  
> > Spyder3 Elite.  Whenever I calibrate now, my monitor is flat, not  
> > vibrant, dull, pale.  My soft proofing to my photos which I print  
> > with profiles I make from PrintFix Pro is also off.  It is not my  
> > prints, they are fine.  I just can't get my monitor to calibrate well.
> >
> > When I go through the new display process using Spyder3 Elite, I  
> > think where I am getting into trouble is with the backlight control  
> > and the white luminance. I check the backlight control button  
> > because the brightness control on my monitor controls the backlight.  
> > When I reset to factory default, brightness goes to 50%. If I  
> > calibrate at this level, the monitor is much too bright and CIExyY  
> > measures about 250. When I check the ambient light recommendations,  
> > it suggests 5800 and 125. 125-130 has always been the white  
> > luminance value I have used in the past when I calibrated with  
> > Spyder2 and my monitor always looked good at this setting. It was  
> > recommended to use Colorimeter CIExyY to see my white luminance  
> > value and so I have in the past tried to adjust the brightness  
> > control to get a CIExyY value of about 125-130 when I calibrated.  
> > This way always worked well for me in the past with Spyder2.  When I  
> > do that now with Spyder3, my monitor is still pale, flat, not  
> > looking as I am used to it looking. So the problem is, do I leave  
> > the brightness at factory default, which really looks bad, or do I  
> > adjust my brightness control, and if so, to what level?
> 
> What OS, and what application and app version are you viewing photos  
> in? Have you just changed displays, or do you have profiles from the  
> same display from both S2Pro and S3Elite? If so, lease email both to  
> me off list in a zip archive. What display make and model? What color  
> gamut does it claim, if it claims one?
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
> 
> 
> 
> Datacolor
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>

On May 13, 2009, at 10:36 AM, tech4x5 wrote:

>     When you ask for profiles, do you mean the .icm profiles?

Yes...

>  If so, I can send you a prior Spyder2 and a current Spyder3 Elite  
> profile.

Those are the two we would need for comparison...

>  Please tell me how to get this to you.

Well, there's an email address right in my signature clip that would  
do, or send directly to <CDTobie@...> and save the forward...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On May 13, 2009, at 10:36 AM, tech4x5 wrote:

>   When using Spyder2 PRO previously, I ended up calibrating after  
> first adjusting my Br control to get CIExxY value to be about  
> 125-130.  When using Spyder3 Elite, I am just running it at the  
> factory default settings with the brightness at 50%.  Could this  
> make have anything to do with my problem?

If you are not using S3Elite in a mode that will set your white  
luminance to a targetted value, then thats issue  number one. If you  
choose the Ambient Light function, and your space is similarly bright  
to the last one, that value should be set for you (if not, cheat, and  
shade the Spyder a bit so that it will offer you the same value). Or  
you could dig into the special functions, using the special button at  
the bottom a couple of times, to burrow down to where you can select  
custom lumianance values, and leave black blank, but set white to 125.  
Results will be the same either way. If either of those methods  
corrects your results to more closely match your Spyder2 results, you  
have found and solved your problem. If not, then send me those files  
we discussed...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

Thanks again.  I like the idea of trying custom luminances.  If I wish to set the B&W luminances (black left blank and white at 125), what's the best way to access this dialog window so I can make these settings?  I know I could go to Expert Console and check measured mode, but is there a better way than this?
     What's the difference between starting the process at the factory default level (which in my case is 50% brightness and 50% contrast) or changing the brightness value to get CIExyY to about 125 before I start calibrating?

Thanks,
Matthew Kraus   
     



-colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On May 13, 2009, at 10:36 AM, tech4x5 wrote:
> 
> >   When using Spyder2 PRO previously, I ended up calibrating after  
> > first adjusting my Br control to get CIExxY value to be about  
> > 125-130.  When using Spyder3 Elite, I am just running it at the  
> > factory default settings with the brightness at 50%.  Could this  
> > make have anything to do with my problem?
> 
> If you are not using S3Elite in a mode that will set your white  
> luminance to a targetted value, then thats issue  number one. If you  
> choose the Ambient Light function, and your space is similarly bright  
> to the last one, that value should be set for you (if not, cheat, and  
> shade the Spyder a bit so that it will offer you the same value). Or  
> you could dig into the special functions, using the special button at  
> the bottom a couple of times, to burrow down to where you can select  
> custom lumianance values, and leave black blank, but set white to 125.  
> Results will be the same either way. If either of those methods  
> corrects your results to more closely match your Spyder2 results, you  
> have found and solved your problem. If not, then send me those files  
> we discussed...
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
> 
> 
> 
> Datacolor
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>

On May 13, 2009, at 11:42 AM, tech4x5 wrote:

>     Thanks again.  I like the idea of trying custom luminances.  If  
> I wish to set the B&W luminances (black left blank and white at  
> 125), what's the best way to access this dialog window so I can make  
> these settings?  I know I could go to Expert Console and check  
> measured mode, but is there a better way than this?
>     What's the difference between starting the process at the  
> factory default level (which in my case is 50% brightness and 50%  
> contrast) or changing the brightness value to get CIExyY to about  
> 125 before I start calibrating?

Well, you can "roll your own" and set the white luminance in advance,  
but we put features for this into the software, so that you won't need  
to. To get to Measured Luminance mode, Choose ReCAL, then Change these  
settings, then Advanced (button at bottom), then after choosing  
appropriate gamma and whitepoint, the next screen lets you choose  
Luminance Mode. Choose Measured, leave Black blank (it will then be  
filled in with the display's native black) and type in 125 for White  
Luminance. Once you have finished defining your custom settings, they  
will be used indefinately, unless you change them. Or you can name  
this custom set of settings and choose it by name in the future. Oh,  
and you'll want to set the Ambient Light Compensation function in the   
Calibration Settings off when you get to it, since you have choosen  
your own White Luminance, and don't want the Ambient Light Wizard to  
do it for you...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

Error message!! I was going along fine just as you suggested, but it never let me match current values and target values during the calibration process.  Is it supposed to do this, or should yhe calibration process just procede automatically?   Should it just go on it's own, or am I supposed to get this option to compare and adjust?  Regardless, as the calibration goes along on it's own, near the end of the calibration process I got an error which says "The calibrated White Luminance of the display is too high - your adjustmets did not achieve the desired target value.  The calibrated value is 257.6 and the target value is 125.  You should either reduce the White Luminance of the display or increase the White Luminance target value.  If you have enabled Ambient Light compensation, then you need to increase the ambient room light to get a higher target value recommendation."

What do I do? How do I reduce the White Luminance of the display? Should I be adjusting the brightness control either at the beginning or somewhere along the way?
Thanks,
Matthew Kraus

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On May 13, 2009, at 11:42 AM, tech4x5 wrote:
> 
> >     Thanks again.  I like the idea of trying custom luminances.  If  
> > I wish to set the B&W luminances (black left blank and white at  
> > 125), what's the best way to access this dialog window so I can make  
> > these settings?  I know I could go to Expert Console and check  
> > measured mode, but is there a better way than this?
> >     What's the difference between starting the process at the  
> > factory default level (which in my case is 50% brightness and 50%  
> > contrast) or changing the brightness value to get CIExyY to about  
> > 125 before I start calibrating?
> 
> Well, you can "roll your own" and set the white luminance in advance,  
> but we put features for this into the software, so that you won't need  
> to. To get to Measured Luminance mode, Choose ReCAL, then Change these  
> settings, then Advanced (button at bottom), then after choosing  
> appropriate gamma and whitepoint, the next screen lets you choose  
> Luminance Mode. Choose Measured, leave Black blank (it will then be  
> filled in with the display's native black) and type in 125 for White  
> Luminance. Once you have finished defining your custom settings, they  
> will be used indefinately, unless you change them. Or you can name  
> this custom set of settings and choose it by name in the future. Oh,  
> and you'll want to set the Ambient Light Compensation function in the   
> Calibration Settings off when you get to it, since you have choosen  
> your own White Luminance, and don't want the Ambient Light Wizard to  
> do it for you...
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
> 
> 
> 
> Datacolor
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>

Excuse me for injecting my 2 cents but I'd like to make a suggestion.  I used the Spyder2 Pro with a Dell 19" UltraSharp monitor for 2 years and got terrific results. I currently use the Spyder3 Elite with a Dell 2209WA, an IPS screen LCD.  I tried every configuration of calibration, including experimenting with different temperatures from 6500K down to 5500K and Native. I tried calibrating with only the Brightness control. I tried different custom white luminance targets.

After all the experimentation I found the best combination:

Calibrate in a dim room, not pitch black
Shades/blinds drawn so no ambient light is throwing glare ontop the monitor.
No lights on, just the dim natural light.
reset the display description and tell the software you have Brightness and Contrast controls, no RGB sliders (NEVER touch the RGB controls)
Reset the monitor to factory default settings with he OSD controls.
Use the Expert console.
Set:
6500K/2.2 Gamma
Ambient light compensation Off.
Gray On.
Measured Mode.
130 for white target, leave Black blank.
Click Measure at bottom left.

During the calibration, use your Brightness AND Contrast controls to get within 1+/- of the target value.

I have gotten fantastic results from this... My display looks good and my prints are dead on match to how the image look in Photoshop CS4.  Typically this leaves my Brightness at about 20-25 and Contrast at 75-80.

On May 13, 2009, at 6:26 PM, tech4x5 wrote:

> Error message!! I was going along fine just as you suggested, but it  
> never let me match current values and target values during the  
> calibration process.  Is it supposed to do this, or should yhe  
> calibration process just procede automatically?   Should it just go  
> on it's own, or am I supposed to get this option to compare and  
> adjust?  Regardless, as the calibration goes along on it's own, near  
> the end of the calibration process I got an error which says "The  
> calibrated White Luminance of the display is too high - your  
> adjustmets did not achieve the desired target value.

If you do not have your display defined as having backlight controls,  
then the calibration process won't ask you to adjust the (nonexistent)  
controls, and you won't be able to hit your white luminance target. Go  
to the "Go" menu in Spyder3Elite, and choose the Edit Display  
Information, to rerun the Display Wizard, and let you check the  
correct options for your display this time. That should solve the  
problem you describe.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

I'm alost there!  After calibrating with factory default of C50 and Br50, I set target for 130 and let it do it's thing and it's pretty darn close.  I found that some minor tweaking improves it very slightly and now it looks great.  I hope this isn't a no no.  What I did was after the calibration, I changed the front contrast control from 50 to 47 and I now I really like it.  
     My question is, is that OK to do?  Or after I set my factory default in the beginning of the process to Br50/C50, would I be better changing the contrast to 47 from 50 before I calibrate.  Do either of these ways seem OK, and if so, would you have a preference for which way I would do it, or doesn't make a difference whether I change the contrast before or after calibration?  Or any other suggestion how I could tweak this?

Thanks,
Matthew Kraus 

   --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On May 13, 2009, at 6:26 PM, tech4x5 wrote:
> 
> > Error message!! I was going along fine just as you suggested, but it  
> > never let me match current values and target values during the  
> > calibration process.  Is it supposed to do this, or should yhe  
> > calibration process just procede automatically?   Should it just go  
> > on it's own, or am I supposed to get this option to compare and  
> > adjust?  Regardless, as the calibration goes along on it's own, near  
> > the end of the calibration process I got an error which says "The  
> > calibrated White Luminance of the display is too high - your  
> > adjustmets did not achieve the desired target value.
> 
> If you do not have your display defined as having backlight controls,  
> then the calibration process won't ask you to adjust the (nonexistent)  
> controls, and you won't be able to hit your white luminance target. Go  
> to the "Go" menu in Spyder3Elite, and choose the Edit Display  
> Information, to rerun the Display Wizard, and let you check the  
> correct options for your display this time. That should solve the  
> problem you describe.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
> 
> 
> 
> Datacolor
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>

On May 14, 2009, at 12:44 PM, tech4x5 wrote:

>     I'm alost there!  After calibrating with factory default of C50  
> and Br50, I set target for 130 and let it do it's thing and it's  
> pretty darn close.  I found that some minor tweaking improves it  
> very slightly and now it looks great.  I hope this isn't a no no.   
> What I did was after the calibration, I changed the front contrast  
> control from 50 to 47 and I now I really like it.
>     My question is, is that OK to do?  Or after I set my factory  
> default in the beginning of the process to Br50/C50, would I be  
> better changing the contrast to 47 from 50 before I calibrate.  Do  
> either of these ways seem OK, and if so, would you have a preference  
> for which way I would do it, or doesn't make a difference whether I  
> change the contrast before or after calibration?  Or any other  
> suggestion how I could tweak this?

That degree of change is not going to cause mismatches, as its less  
than the variability from one situation, screen surface, or device  
type to another. Should be fine. Next time you can problably just  
calibrate at 47 instead of 50.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...