Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Minimum Velocities

2005-08-30 by Bob Gonzalez

I am working with a MarkIIIXG upright. We downloaded some Ampico expression rolls. Even with the volume control at max, some notes will not strike on play back. I looked at the file with Cakewalk and noticed that the missing notes had velocities around 30. I assume that when the XG volume is on maximum, the piano will try to play the velocities in the file with no lowering.

My question is: What is the lowest velocity number this piano must have to reliably play such fast moving music? Spencer Chase's editor will let you raise velocities in certain ranges without bothering other velocities. The piano has just run the self test and calibration program and passed. I just want to know how much to raise those soft notes.

Many thanks for all comments.

Bob Gonzalez

bgonzalez@...

Re: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities

2005-08-30 by Carol Beigel

I think I would look at the action regulation -
specifically the capstan adjustment let-off adjustment
since it is an upright piano.  Even at velocity of 30,
with the volume control set on 0 these notes should
play.

Carol Beigel

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Gonzalez" <bgonzalez@...>
To: <disklavier@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities

I am working with a MarkIIIXG upright.  We downloaded
some Ampico expression rolls.  Even with the volume
control at max, some notes will not strike on play
back.  I looked at the file with Cakewalk and noticed
that the missing notes had velocities around 30.  I
assume that when the XG volume is on maximum, the piano
will try to play the velocities in the file with no
lowering.

My question is: What is the lowest velocity number this
piano must have to reliably play such fast moving
music?  Spencer Chase's editor will let you raise
velocities in certain ranges without bothering other
velocities.  The piano has just run the self test and
calibration program and passed.  I just want to know
how much to raise those soft notes.

Many thanks for all comments.

Bob Gonzalez
bgonzalez@...

Re: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities

2005-08-31 by n9544c@aol.com

I have an MX100 II Disklavier and am becoming quite familiar with this instrument from the technical point of view.  This instrument has built in calibration tests that determine the minimum velocity required to strike each note based on the condition of the mechanical piano action.  Each notes action is independent from all the others and in an ideal world, the effort required of the drivers in the Disklavier to play softly would be equal for all notes.  However, this is not the case as the piano ages for a number of reasons.  Remarkably, Yamaha thought of this and the processor can actually test and tailor each note of the keyboard for good velocity within certain wear limits and resistance of the action.  In fact, if you think you can do better than the automatic keyboard calibration, it will let you try by adjusting the velocity played for each note with a given velocity in.  However, this is very difficult to do , at least for me and the auto procedure seems to do a better job. 
 
I do not know if the MKIII has this feature.  You could check with your local Yamaha service person or perhaps someone from the Piano Tuners Guild.  It may be that you just need a recalibration.
 
Regards,
 
Mike

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Gonzalez <bgonzalez@...>
To: disklavier@...
Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:20:39 -0700
Subject: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities

I am working with a MarkIIIXG upright.  We downloaded some Ampico expression rolls.  Even with the volume control at max, some notes will not strike on play back.  I looked at the file with Cakewalk and noticed that the missing notes had velocities around 30.  I assume that when the XG volume is on maximum, the piano will try to play the velocities in the file with no lowering.

My question is: What is the lowest velocity number this piano must have to reliably play such fast moving music?  Spencer Chase's editor will let you raise velocities in certain ranges without bothering other velocities.  The piano has just run the self test and calibration program and passed.  I just want to know how much to raise those soft notes.

Many thanks for all comments.

Bob Gonzalez
bgonzalez@...

To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
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To reach our group's web site go to:
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com 

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Re: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities

2005-08-31 by Carol Beigel

Yes, it is possible to adjust the ppp value of each
individual note on the Disklavier.  It must be done
from time to time, however, a good piano action
regulation should be done first.  Sometimes that is all
that is necessary.  You can find these programs in
maintenance mode.

Carol Beigel

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <n9544c@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities


> I have an MX100 II Disklavier and am becoming quite
familiar with this instrument from the technical point
of view.  This instrument has built in calibration
tests that determine the minimum velocity required to
strike each note based on the condition of the
mechanical piano action.  Each notes action is
independent from all the others and in an ideal world,
the effort required of the drivers in the Disklavier to
play softly would be equal for all notes.  However,
this is not the case as the piano ages for a number of
reasons.  Remarkably, Yamaha thought of this and the
processor can actually test and tailor each note of the
keyboard for good velocity within certain wear limits
and resistance of the action.  In fact, if you think
you can do better than the automatic keyboard
calibration, it will let you try by adjusting the
velocity played for each note with a given velocity in.
However, this is very difficult to do , at least for me
and the auto procedure seems to do a better job.
>
> I do not know if the MKIII has this feature.  You
could check with your local Yamaha service person or
perhaps someone from the Piano Tuners Guild.  It may be
that you just need a recalibration.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Gonzalez <bgonzalez@...>
> To: disklavier@...
> Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:20:39 -0700
> Subject: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities
>
>
> I am working with a MarkIIIXG upright.  We downloaded
some Ampico expression rolls.  Even with the volume
control at max, some notes will not strike on play
back.  I looked at the file with Cakewalk and noticed
that the missing notes had velocities around 30.  I
assume that when the XG volume is on maximum, the piano
will try to play the velocities in the file with no
lowering.
>
> My question is: What is the lowest velocity number
this piano must have to reliably play such fast moving
music?  Spencer Chase's editor will let you raise
velocities in certain ranges without bothering other
velocities.  The piano has just run the self test and
calibration program and passed.  I just want to know
how much to raise those soft notes.
>
> Many thanks for all comments.
>
> Bob Gonzalez
> bgonzalez@...
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:
disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's
founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated
012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and
links to midi sites among many other things, The url
is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are
getting too much mail, go the the web site and change
your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the
problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank
email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a
blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this
link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "disklavier" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
>

Re: [disklavier] Minimum Velocities

2005-08-31 by George F. Litterst

Good afternoon, Bob.

I have a question: Are you playing these files from your computer?

If so, be sure that the Disklavier is set to receive with the 500ms delay turned on. If the delay is off, the Disklavier might not play all of the notes when there are rapid repeated notes, particularly repeated notes with low velocity. What happens is that the message to turn each note off gets there before the Disklavier has had a chance to completely play the notes.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Aug 30, 2005, at 5:20 PM, Bob Gonzalez wrote:

I am working with a MarkIIIXG upright. We downloaded some Ampico expression rolls. Even with the volume control at max, some notes will not strike on play back. I looked at the file with Cakewalk and noticed that the missing notes had velocities around 30. I assume that when the XG volume is on maximum, the piano will try to play the velocities in the file with no lowering.

My question is: What is the lowest velocity number this piano must have to reliably play such fast moving music? Spencer Chase's editor will let you raise velocities in certain ranges without bothering other velocities. The piano has just run the self test and calibration program and passed. I just want to know how much to raise those soft notes.

Many thanks for all comments.

Bob Gonzalez
bgonzalez@...

To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...

Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@eGroups.com or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "disklavier" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-25 by londierowleik

"The piano has just run the self test and calibration program and passed."
hey, having an uprite markIII also.
interested in this system check.
how is the setup process to be done?
thx for your kind help: Lonnie

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Gonzalez" <bgonzalez@j...> wrote:
> I am working with a MarkIIIXG upright.  We downloaded some Ampico
expression rolls.  Even with the volume control at max, some notes
will not strike on play back.  I looked at the file with Cakewalk and
noticed that the missing notes had velocities around 30.  I assume
that when the XG volume is on maximum, the piano will try to play the
velocities in the file with no lowering.
> 
> My question is: What is the lowest velocity number this piano must
have to reliably play such fast moving music?  Spencer Chase's editor
will let you raise velocities in certain ranges without bothering
other velocities.  The piano has just run the self test and
calibration program and passed.  I just want to know how much to raise
those soft notes.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> 
> Many thanks for all comments.
> 
> Bob Gonzalez
> bgonzalez@j...

Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-25 by Spencer_Lists

Greetings Bob

I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.

Kerr Ampico,3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90,94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110


>>  >> My question is: What is the lowest velocity number
this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...






> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...

> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 

> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 

> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links



>  




-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-26 by George F. Litterst

Good morning, everyone.

In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.

Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the  
MIDI In delay turned off.

The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings  
that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).

Regards,
PianoBench

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:

> Greetings Bob
>
> I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
> you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
> duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
> giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
> We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
> adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
> lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
> preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
> problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
> send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.
>
> Kerr Ampico, 
> 3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
> 94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110
>
>
>
>>>>> My question is: What is the lowest velocity number
>>>>>
> this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
> Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
> ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
> the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
> know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
> comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
>> disklavier@...
>>
>
>
>> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
>> moderator, send it to:
>> disklavier-owner@...
>>
>
>
>> To reach our group's web site go to:
>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>
>
>
>> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
>> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
>> many other things, The url is:
>> http://MuncyFamily.com
>>
>
>
>> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
>> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
>> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
>> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank  
>> email to:
>> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>>
>
>
>> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
> 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> (707) 984-8356
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> ~-->
> <FONT COLOR="#000099">Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive  
> today at Network for Good!
> </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/iuUuID/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/ 
> MlLolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
> option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
> access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
> blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re[2]: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-26 by Spencer_Lists

Greetings George,

typing left handed, forgive lower case please.

it was a real surprise to me that the dkv would not play quick soft
notes. i would think that the mechanism and electronics should do
whatever is necessary to play any note sent to it, with the possible
exception of very quick brushed notes. the pianodisc brings all note
durations and velocities up to a minimum so they will play. this is
annoying at times as all brushed notes play audibly. i had to write a
program to remove them automatically.

the delay is turned on. without it it is much worse. the piano has
been regulated several times by a dealer tech. maybe there is a
shortage of dealer techs who know what they are doing.

it is interesting to hear of another piano with the same problem.


Monday, September 26, 2005, 7:25:47 AM, you wrote:
> Good morning, everyone.

> In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
> should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
> or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.

> Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
> properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the
> MIDI In delay turned off.

> The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings
> that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
> minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).

> Regards,
> PianoBench

> On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:

>> Greetings Bob
>>
>> I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
>> you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
>> duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
>> giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
>> We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
>> adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
>> lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
>> preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
>> problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
>> send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.
>>
>> Kerr Ampico, 
>> 3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
>> 94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> My question is: What is the lowest velocity number
>>>>>>
>> this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
>> Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
>> ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
>> the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
>> know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
>> comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
>>> disklavier@...
>>>
>>
>>
>>> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
>>> moderator, send it to:
>>> disklavier-owner@...
>>>
>>
>>
>>> To reach our group's web site go to:
>>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
>>> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
>>> many other things, The url is:
>>> http://MuncyFamily.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
>>> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
>>> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
>>> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank  
>>> email to:
>>> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>>> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Best regards,
>> Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
>> 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
>> Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
>> Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
>> Spencer@...
>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
>> (707) 984-8356
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
>> ~-->
>> <FONT COLOR="#000099">Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive  
>> today at Network for Good!
>> </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/iuUuID/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/ 
>> MlLolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ~->
>>
>> To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
>> disklavier@...
>>
>> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
>> moderator, send it to:
>> disklavier-owner@...
>>
>> To reach our group's web site go to:
>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>
>> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
>> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
>> many other things, The url is:
>> http://MuncyFamily.com
>>
>> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
>> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
>> option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
>> access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
>> blank email to:
>> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>




> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...

> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 

> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 

> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links



>  




-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-26 by Robert Welcyng

For those interested, I'm attaching a short midi file (type 0). �The duration of each note is 31 msec, approximately, and all notes are of velocity 10. �When this file is played on my Mark II DC3, all notes sound.

(Should you not find the attachment, contact me privately.)

Spencer_Lists wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

Greetings George,

typing left handed, forgive lower case please.

it was a real surprise to me that the dkv would not play quick soft
notes. i would think that the mechanism and electronics should do
whatever is necessary to play any note sent to it, with the possible
exception of very quick brushed notes. the pianodisc brings all note
durations and velocities up to a minimum so they will play. this is
annoying at times as all brushed notes play audibly. i had to write a
program to remove them automatically.

the delay is turned on. without it it is much worse. the piano has
been regulated several times by a dealer tech. maybe there is a
shortage of dealer techs who know what they are doing.

it is interesting to hear of another piano with the same problem.


Monday, September 26, 2005, 7:25:47 AM, you wrote:

Good morning, everyone.

In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.

Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the
MIDI In delay turned off.

The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings
that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).

Regards,
PianoBench

On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:

Greetings Bob

I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.

Kerr Ampico, 
3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110

My question is: What is the lowest velocity number

this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...

To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
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To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
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to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank  
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disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
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Yahoo! Groups Links

        



-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
~-->
Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive  
today at Network for Good!
"http://us.click.yahoo.com/iuUuID/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/ 
MlLolB/TM">Click Here!
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join

Yahoo! Groups Links

To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

 
    

-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-26 by Carol Beigel

I'm going to step in here wearing my piano technician
hat.  I doubt this problem has anything to do with MIDI
data.  My guess is that it is due to friction in the
piano action.  (I know, she always says that!!)

The first thing to check is the piano keys.  Can you
lift them up (about 1/4 inch) from the front end and
they fall back to rest under their own weight?  If they
don't, the key centers are probably way too tight.  I
see this about 1 in 10 pianos.  Only a good piano
technician with the proper tool should make this
adjustment.  It is very easy to do on a upright, but
much more labor intensive on a grand piano because all
the keys need to come off their pins and the bottom
holes in the keys need to be eased.  Sometimes there is
a sticky film on the key pins, so a good polishing can
be done at the same time.

When played so quietly as to not make a sound, do you
hear any groaning or squeaking?  Could be that all is
needed is a little teflon powder on the buckskin.  On a
grand piano, this is the knuckle; on an upright piano,
it is on the hammer butts.  We use only micro fine
powder, but the Hoppes brand sold in gun stores works
well and comes packaged with a nice needle applicator.

Sometimes the let-off adjustment is too wide.  Your
piano tech can determine if that is the problem.  Or,
on a grand piano, the jacks "cheat"; that is they
escape before the hammer has had its full swing.

And then of course can be tight action centers in
whippens and flanges.  This problem occurs a lot in
high humidity situations.  Again, a piano tech may need
to use a special lubricant, or repin the offending
parts.

If you are having this problem on an all electronic
piano like the DGT2, then check the volume control
knobs on the amplifier.

Carol Beigel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George F. Litterst" <PianoBench@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self
check


> Good morning, everyone.
>
> In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated
Disklavier
> should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk,
internal memory,
> or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is
on.
>
> Dropped notes are a potential problem if the
instrument is not
> properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives
MIDI data with the
> MIDI In delay turned off.
>
> The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own
internal settings
> that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an
appropriate
> minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35
on uprights).
>
> Regards,
> PianoBench
>
> On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:
>
> > Greetings Bob
> >
> > I have discovered, working with a friend who has
the same piano that
> > you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to
some extent on note
> > duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity.
We found that
> > giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note
problem in Ampico files.
> > We made a "preset" that seems to work well although
a program that
> > adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow
more subtlety in the
> > lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough
interest. Here is a
> > preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if
this is only a
> > problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the
problem too. I can
> > send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.
> >
> > Kerr Ampico,
> >
3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,
75,78,82,85,90,
> > 94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110
> >
> >
> >
> >>>>> My question is: What is the lowest velocity
number
> >>>>>
> > this piano must > have to reliably play such fast
moving music?
> > Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise
velocities in certain
> > ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The
piano has just run
> > the self test and > calibration program and passed.
I just want to
> > know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >>
Many thanks for all
> > comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> To Post a message to the group, send it to:
> >> disklavier@...
> >>
> >
> >
> >> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the
group's founder and
> >> moderator, send it to:
> >> disklavier-owner@...
> >>
> >
> >
> >> To reach our group's web site go to:
> >> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >>
> >
> >
> >> Todd's family web site was completely updated
012/22/03.  It
> >> contains some fun disklavier content and links to
midi sites among
> >> many other things, The url is:
> >> http://MuncyFamily.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> >> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you
are getting too
> >> much mail, go the the web site and change your
email delivery option
> >> instead.  That will fix the problem, while
maintaining your access
> >> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us
completely send a blank
> >> email to:
> >> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >>
> >
> >
> >> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a
blank email to:
> >> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this
link:
> >> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Best regards,
> > Spencer_Lists Chase
mailto:lists@...
> > 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> > Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> > Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> > Spencer@...
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> > (707) 984-8356
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
Sponsor -------------------- 
> > ~-->
> > <FONT COLOR="#000099">Life without art & music?
Keep the arts alive
> > today at Network for Good!
> > </FONT><A
HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/iuUuID/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/
> > MlLolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
--------------- 
> > ~->
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to:
> > disklavier@...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the
group's founder and
> > moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> > Todd's family web site was completely updated
012/22/03.  It
> > contains some fun disklavier content and links to
midi sites among
> > many other things, The url is:
> > http://MuncyFamily.com
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are
getting too
> > much mail, go the the web site and change your
email delivery
> > option instead.  That will fix the problem, while
maintaining your
> > access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us
completely send a
> > blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a
blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this
link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:
disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's
founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated
012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and
links to midi sites among many other things, The url
is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are
getting too much mail, go the the web site and change
your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the
problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank
email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a
blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this
link:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-27 by Ted East

All,

I tested the file on my mx100a upright. All notes sound at all volume
levels, in fact I did not detect a noticeable difference in volume
between 0 and -3. However I have noticed that my piano has problems
playing short quick notes in rapid succession. Is it possible to create
another test file but with the note being rapidly repeated before
progressing? 

-Ted

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 12:08 -0800, Robert Welcyng wrote:

> For those interested, I'm attaching a short midi file (type 0).  The
> duration of each note is 31 msec, approximately, and all notes are of
> velocity 10.  When this file is played on my Mark II DC3, all notes
> sound.
> 
> (Should you not find the attachment, contact me privately.)
> 
> Spencer_Lists wrote:
> 
> > Greetings George,
> > 
> > typing left handed, forgive lower case please.
> > 
> > it was a real surprise to me that the dkv would not play quick soft
> > notes. i would think that the mechanism and electronics should do
> > whatever is necessary to play any note sent to it, with the possible
> > exception of very quick brushed notes. the pianodisc brings all note
> > durations and velocities up to a minimum so they will play. this is
> > annoying at times as all brushed notes play audibly. i had to write a
> > program to remove them automatically.
> > 
> > the delay is turned on. without it it is much worse. the piano has
> > been regulated several times by a dealer tech. maybe there is a
> > shortage of dealer techs who know what they are doing.
> > 
> > it is interesting to hear of another piano with the same problem.
> > 
> > 
> > Monday, September 26, 2005, 7:25:47 AM, you wrote:
> >   
> > 
> > > Good morning, everyone.
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
> > > should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
> > > or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
> > > properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the
> > > MIDI In delay turned off.
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings
> > > that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
> > > minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > Regards,
> > > PianoBench
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > > Greetings Bob
> > > > 
> > > > I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
> > > > you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
> > > > duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
> > > > giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
> > > > We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
> > > > adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
> > > > lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
> > > > preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
> > > > problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
> > > > send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.
> > > > 
> > > > Kerr Ampico, 
> > > > 3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
> > > > 94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > > > > > My question is: What is the lowest velocity number
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >               
> > > > 
> > > > this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
> > > > Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
> > > > ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
> > > > the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
> > > > know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
> > > > comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > > To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> > > > > disklavier@...
> > > > > 
> > > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> > > > > moderator, send it to:
> > > > > disklavier-owner@...
> > > > > 
> > > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > > > > 
> > > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> > > > > contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> > > > > many other things, The url is:
> > > > > http://MuncyFamily.com
> > > > > 
> > > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > > > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> > > > > much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> > > > > instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
> > > > > to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank  
> > > > > email to:
> > > > > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> > > > > 
> > > > >         
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > > > > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > 
> > > > >         
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > >         
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
> > > > 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> > > > Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> > > > Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> > > > Spencer@...
> > > > http://www.spencerserolls.com
> > > > http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> > > > (707) 984-8356
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> > > > ~-->
> > > > <FONT COLOR="#000099">Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive  
> > > > today at Network for Good!
> > > > </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/iuUuID/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/ 
> > > > MlLolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > > > ~->
> > > > 
> > > > To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> > > > disklavier@...
> > > > 
> > > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> > > > moderator, send it to:
> > > > disklavier-owner@...
> > > > 
> > > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > > > 
> > > > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
> > > > contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> > > > many other things, The url is:
> > > > http://MuncyFamily.com
> > > > 
> > > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
> > > > much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
> > > > option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
> > > > access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
> > > > blank email to:
> > > > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> > > > 
> > > > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > > > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> > > > 
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> > > disklavier-owner@...
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> > > contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> > > http://MuncyFamily.com 
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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> > 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Robert Welcyng
> Anchorage, Alaska
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-27 by George F. Litterst

Good morning, everyone.

On Sep 27, 2005, at 9:42 AM, Ted East wrote:

All,

I tested the file on my mx100a upright. All notes sound at all volume levels, in fact I did not detect a noticeable difference in volume between 0 and -3.

If the notes were low velocity to begin with, your Disklavier will play them back with some minimum velocity that is appropriate to the instrument. Turning the volume down further will not push the actual playback velocity of the notes down beyond that built-in minimum.

However I have noticed that my piano has problems playing short quick notes in rapid succession.

Was this playback:

--from floppy disk?

I expect that this should be fine.

--from external MIDI with the MIDI In delay set to 500 ms?

I expect that this should be fine.

--from external MIDI with the MIDI In delay turned off?

I expect this to be a problem.

Is it possible to create another test file but with the note being rapidly repeated before progressing?

I am not sure what this means.

Regards,

PianoBench

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 12:08 -0800, Robert Welcyng wrote:

For those interested, I'm attaching a short midi file (type 0). The duration of each note is 31 msec, approximately, and all notes are of velocity 10. When this file is played on my Mark II DC3, all notes sound.

(Should you not find the attachment, contact me privately.)

Spencer_Lists wrote:

Greetings George,

typing left handed, forgive lower case please.

it was a real surprise to me that the dkv would not play quick soft
notes. i would think that the mechanism and electronics should do
whatever is necessary to play any note sent to it, with the possible
exception of very quick brushed notes. the pianodisc brings all note
durations and velocities up to a minimum so they will play. this is
annoying at times as all brushed notes play audibly. i had to write a
program to remove them automatically.

the delay is turned on. without it it is much worse. the piano has
been regulated several times by a dealer tech. maybe there is a
shortage of dealer techs who know what they are doing.

it is interesting to hear of another piano with the same problem.


Monday, September 26, 2005, 7:25:47 AM, you wrote:

Good morning, everyone.

In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.

Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the
MIDI In delay turned off.

The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings
that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).

Regards,
PianoBench

On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:

Greetings Bob

I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.

Kerr Ampico, 
3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110

My question is: What is the lowest velocity number

this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
comments. >>  >>; Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...

To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
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many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@spencerserolls.com
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356



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To reach our group's web site go to:
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
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To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

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disklavier-owner@Yahoogroups.com

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
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-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

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To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
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To reach our group's web site go to:
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
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SPONSORED LINKS
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Visit your group "disklavier" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
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Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-27 by Ted East

Good morning, George.

"Is it possible to create another test file but with the note being
rapidly repeated before progressing? "

The problem I experience is when the piano tries to play a soft quick
note repeatedly. The test file simply plays  A B C D F E F and so on,
which plays fine. I was asking to have the test file play AA BB CC DD EE
FF. Do you have any insight to why the piano fails to sound the the
second note?

-Ted

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, 2005-09-27 at 10:06 -0400, George F. Litterst wrote:

> Good morning, everyone.
> 
> On Sep 27, 2005, at 9:42 AM, Ted East wrote:
> 
> 
> > All,
> > 
> > I tested the file on my mx100a upright. All notes sound at all
> > volume levels, in fact I did not detect a noticeable difference in
> > volume between 0 and -3.
> 
> 
> 
> If the notes were low velocity to begin with, your Disklavier will
> play them back with some minimum velocity that is appropriate to the
> instrument. Turning the volume down further will not push the actual
> playback velocity of the notes down beyond that built-in minimum.
> 
> 
> > However I have noticed that my piano has problems playing short
> > quick notes in rapid succession.
> 
> 
> 
> Was this playback:
> 
> 
> --from floppy disk?
> I expect that this should be fine.
> 
> 
> --from external MIDI with the MIDI In delay set to 500 ms?
> I expect that this should be fine.
> 
> 
> --from external MIDI with the MIDI In delay turned off?
> I expect this to be a problem.
> 
> 
> > Is it possible to create another test file but with the note being
> > rapidly repeated before progressing? 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure what this means.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 12:08 -0800, Robert Welcyng wrote:
> > 
> > > For those interested, I'm attaching a short midi file (type 0).
> > >  The duration of each note is 31 msec, approximately, and all
> > > notes are of velocity 10.  When this file is played on my Mark II
> > > DC3, all notes sound.
> > > 
> > > (Should you not find the attachment, contact me privately.)
> > > 
> > > Spencer_Lists wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > Greetings George,
> > > > 
> > > > typing left handed, forgive lower case please.
> > > > 
> > > > it was a real surprise to me that the dkv would not play quick soft
> > > > notes. i would think that the mechanism and electronics should do
> > > > whatever is necessary to play any note sent to it, with the possible
> > > > exception of very quick brushed notes. the pianodisc brings all note
> > > > durations and velocities up to a minimum so they will play. this is
> > > > annoying at times as all brushed notes play audibly. i had to write a
> > > > program to remove them automatically.
> > > > 
> > > > the delay is turned on. without it it is much worse. the piano has
> > > > been regulated several times by a dealer tech. maybe there is a
> > > > shortage of dealer techs who know what they are doing.
> > > > 
> > > > it is interesting to hear of another piano with the same problem.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Monday, September 26, 2005, 7:25:47 AM, you wrote:
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > Good morning, everyone.
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
> > > > > should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
> > > > > or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
> > > > > properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the
> > > > > MIDI In delay turned off.
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings
> > > > > that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
> > > > > minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > PianoBench
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > > Greetings Bob
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
> > > > > > you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
> > > > > > duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
> > > > > > giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
> > > > > > We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
> > > > > > adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
> > > > > > lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
> > > > > > preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
> > > > > > problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
> > > > > > send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Kerr Ampico, 
> > > > > > 3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
> > > > > > 94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > My question is: What is the lowest velocity number
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > >               
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
> > > > > > Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
> > > > > > ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
> > > > > > the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
> > > > > > know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
> > > > > > comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> > > > > > > disklavier@...
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> > > > > > > moderator, send it to:
> > > > > > > disklavier-owner@...
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > > > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> > > > > > > contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> > > > > > > many other things, The url is:
> > > > > > > http://MuncyFamily.com
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > > > > > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> > > > > > > much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> > > > > > > instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
> > > > > > > to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank  
> > > > > > > email to:
> > > > > > > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > > > > > > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > > > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -- 
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
> > > > > > 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> > > > > > Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> > > > > > Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> > > > > > Spencer@...
> > > > > > http://www.spencerserolls.com
> > > > > > http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> > > > > > (707) 984-8356
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> > > > > > ~-->
> > > > > > <FONT COLOR="#000099">Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive  
> > > > > > today at Network for Good!
> > > > > > </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/iuUuID/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/ 
> > > > > > MlLolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > > > > > ~->
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> > > > > > disklavier@...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> > > > > > moderator, send it to:
> > > > > > disklavier-owner@...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
> > > > > > contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> > > > > > many other things, The url is:
> > > > > > http://MuncyFamily.com
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > > > > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
> > > > > > much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
> > > > > > option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
> > > > > > access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
> > > > > > blank email to:
> > > > > > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > > > > > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> > > > > disklavier-owner@...
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> > > > > contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> > > > > http://MuncyFamily.com 
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > > > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> > > > > much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> > > > > instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
> > > > > to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > > > > disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > > > > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > > > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >     
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > >      
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Robert Welcyng
> > > Anchorage, Alaska
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To Post a message to the group, send it to:
> > > disklavier@...
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Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-27 by George F. Litterst

Good afternoon, everyone.

Ted, as I mentioned to others in previous posts, I cannot make a definite statement as to whether your Disklavier is misbehaving unless I know whether playback:

--is from floppy disk or internal memory

--external MIDI with the MIDI In delay turned on

--external MIDI with the MIDI In delay turned off

I only expect a problem in the last of the 3 scenarios. Here is why:

Each note in a performance is stored as 2 messages: note-on and note-off. Unlike an electronic keyboard that can respond to these messages immediately and change the sound that you hear immediately, the Disklavier is somewhat sluggish because of its mechanical nature

If there is no MIDI In delay, the Disklavier responds to an incoming note-on message by immediately starting to move the key. You hear the result somewhat later. How much later depends upon how long it takes for the hammer to hit the strings.

At some point during the key downstroke, the hammer loses contact with the key and the hammer is sent in free flight toward the string. Either before or after the hammer hits the string (depending upon how short the note is), the key is released and returns to rest.

When, from external MIDI, you rapidly send repeated note-on messages for the same note or when you quickly follow a note-on message with a note-off message, you may interrupt the key-down stroke before it has a chance to finish its complete motion. The result may be that the hammer never hits the string. You may also trigger another key-down stroke before the key is reset and ready to engage the hammer again. In both cases, the intended note may not play properly or at all.

When the MIDI In delay is turned on, the Disklavier's processor looks at the incoming MIDI data, figures out when the hammers should hit the strings relative to each other and how fast they should travel when they strike. Then, the Disklavier figures when and how fast to move the keys in order to make it all work. In order to achieve this feat, the Disklavier needs a 1/2 second to process everything.

NOTE: When making experimental MIDI files to test a Disklavier's responsiveness, it is important to realize that you can easily (and mistakenly) create a MIDI file that no mechanical instrument can play properly under any circumstances. When making a test file, it is a good idea to ask yourself, "Could an excellent pianist play this file?" If the answer is, "Yes," then the file is a reasonable test file.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 27, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Ted East wrote:

Good morning, George.

"Is it possible to create another test file but with the note being rapidly repeated before progressing? "

The problem I experience is when the piano tries to play a soft quick note repeatedly. The test file simply plays A B C D F E F and so on, which plays fine. I was asking to have the test file play AA BB CC DD EE FF. Do you have any insight to why the piano fails to sound the the second note?

-Ted

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tue, 2005-09-27 at 10:06 -0400, George F. Litterst wrote:
Good morning, everyone.

On Sep 27, 2005, at 9:42 AM, Ted East wrote:

All,

I tested the file on my mx100a upright. All notes sound at all volume levels, in fact I did not detect a noticeable difference in volume between 0 and -3.

If the notes were low velocity to begin with, your Disklavier will play them back with some minimum velocity that is appropriate to the instrument. Turning the volume down further will not push the actual playback velocity of the notes down beyond that built-in minimum.

However I have noticed that my piano has problems playing short quick notes in rapid succession.

Was this playback:

--from floppy disk?
I expect that this should be fine.

--from external MIDI with the MIDI In delay set to 500 ms?
I expect that this should be fine.

--from external MIDI with the MIDI In delay turned off?
I expect this to be a problem.

Is it possible to create another test file but with the note being rapidly repeated before progressing?

I am not sure what this means.

Regards,
PianoBench
On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 12:08 -0800, Robert Welcyng wrote:
For those interested, I'm attaching a short midi file (type 0). The duration of each note is 31 msec, approximately, and all notes are of velocity 10. When this file is played on my Mark II DC3, all notes sound.

(Should you not find the attachment, contact me privately.)

Spencer_Lists wrote:
Greetings George,

typing left handed, forgive lower case please.

it was a real surprise to me that the dkv would not play quick soft
notes. i would think that the mechanism and electronics should do
whatever is necessary to play any note sent to it, with the possible
exception of very quick brushed notes. the pianodisc brings all note
durations and velocities up to a minimum so they will play. this is
annoying at times as all brushed notes play audibly. i had to write a
program to remove them automatically.

the delay is turned on. without it it is much worse. the piano has
been regulated several times by a dealer tech. maybe there is a
shortage of dealer techs who know what they are doing.

it is interesting to hear of another piano with the same problem.


Monday, September 26, 2005, 7:25:47 AM, you wrote:
  
Good morning, everyone.
    
  
In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.
    
  
Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the
MIDI In delay turned off.
    
  
The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings
that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).
    
  
Regards,
PianoBench
    
  
On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:
    
  
Greetings Bob

I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.

Kerr Ampico, 
3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110



      
My question is: What is the lowest velocity number

              
this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
comments. >>  >>; Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...







      
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

        
      
THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
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-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356



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To reach our group's web site go to:
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
    
  
To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...
    
  
To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
    
  
Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com 
    
  
THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
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to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
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-- 
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Anchorage, Alaska
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http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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Re[2]: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-27 by Spencer_Lists

Greetings George,

here is a file that has problems on the upright dkv. it was played through the midi input with the delay enabled. if attachments do not work, i can post on my web server.

there are two repetitions of the test. the first has the original velocities, the second has them raised to a minimum or 47 or so. in the first test there is some stumblieness to some of the quick notes, the worst being the last trill which plays very badly. it plays fine in the second repeat. this test is taken from an ampico piano roll that plays correctly on the ampico which is a small (5' 3") grand in good regulation.

--�

Best regards,

Spencer_Lists Chase � � � �mailto:lists@...

67550 Bell Springs Rd.

Garberville, �CA 95542 � �Postal service only.

Laytonville, CA 95454 � �UPS only.

Spencer@...

http://www.spencerserolls.com

http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm

(707) 984-8356

Re: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-28 by Robert Welcyng

There is a limit to how rapidly a single note can be repeated. �One constraint has to do with how quickly the keyboard escapement mechanism can recover--that is, fall back into place and be ready for the next note. �If the solenoid pulse hits the key before the hammer has returned, the series of notes sounded can become chaotically erratic. It's a complex matter. For example, the rebound of the hammer will be quicker for higher velocity notes and thus possibly allow for a more rapid succession of high velocity notes than of low velocity notes. The mass of bass hammers is greater than those of �treble hammers. The effective spring constants of the both the strings and the hammer felts also vary from bass to treble.

Be aware that there are basic differences in upright keyboard escapements versus of grands. �The grand escapement is specifically designed to allow more rapid repetition of single notes.

The file that I provided was intended only to dispel the myth that a properly maintained DKV may not sound a low velocity short note. �Regretfully, I decline to provide other test files. My reason is basically this: There is no standard specification for repetition rate that can be tested against. �Further, the dimensions of such an exploration lead to much experimentation and little useful knowledge. One must work with combinations of the following independent variables: Various models of grands and uprights, various keys of the 88, various note velocities, various note durations, and various repetition rates. Further, evaluations of what worked and what didn't are judgmental and sometimes ambiguous. (I speak from experience!)

In my view, the question is: Can the DKV reproduce what was manually recorded on it with an accuracy that satisfies the performer? If the answer is affirmative, then the DKV is doing what it is supposed to do. It's no secret that some exotic files such as converted piano rolls, step-recorded files, and other stuff found on the Internet demand more than a DKV can possibly deliver. The remedy is not always easy: Accept the DKV's performance as it is and provide it with a file, modified as necessary, that� plays to your satisfaction. Making file modifications is difficult because one lacks the non-existent characterization of the DKV--you're groping in the dark at times. Sometimes, I believe, it would be easier to just learn to play the piano.

Ted East wrote:

All,

I tested the file on my mx100a upright. All notes sound at all volume levels, in fact I did not detect a noticeable difference in volume between 0 and -3. However I have noticed that my piano has problems playing short quick notes in rapid succession. Is it possible to create another test file but with the note being rapidly repeated before progressing?

-Ted

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 12:08 -0800, Robert Welcyng wrote:

Greetings George,

typing left handed, forgive lower case please.

it was a real surprise to me that the dkv would not play quick soft
notes. i would think that the mechanism and electronics should do
whatever is necessary to play any note sent to it, with the possible
exception of very quick brushed notes. the pianodisc brings all note
durations and velocities up to a minimum so they will play. this is
annoying at times as all brushed notes play audibly. i had to write a
program to remove them automatically.

the delay is turned on. without it it is much worse. the piano has
been regulated several times by a dealer tech. maybe there is a
shortage of dealer techs who know what they are doing.

it is interesting to hear of another piano with the same problem.


Monday, September 26, 2005, 7:25:47 AM, you wrote:

Good morning, everyone.

In my experience, a properly regulated and calibrated Disklavier  
should not drop notes on playback from floppy disk, internal memory,  
or from external MIDI when the MIDI Delay feature is on.

Dropped notes are a potential problem if the instrument is not  
properly regulated or calibrated or if it receives MIDI data with the
MIDI In delay turned off.

The non-Pro, pre-Mark IV Disklaviers have their own internal settings
that insure that low-velocity notes play back at an  appropriate  
minimum velocity (about 20-25 on grands and about 35 on uprights).

Regards,
PianoBench

On Sep 25, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Spencer_Lists wrote:

Greetings Bob

I have discovered, working with a friend who has the same piano that
you do, that minimum playing velocity depends to some extent on note
duration. Very quick notes require higher velocity. We found that
giving a minimum of 47 cures the dropped note problem in Ampico files.
We made a "preset" that seems to work well although a program that
adjusts velocity only for short notes might allow more subtlety in the
lower ranges. I'll write it if there is enough interest. Here is a
preset string for Midimod2  I would like to know if this is only a
problem with upright DKVs or if grands have the problem too. I can
send a sample file to anyone who wants to try it.

Kerr Ampico, 
3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,47,50,51,53,56,59,63,67,71,73,75,78,82,85,90, 
94,100,104,108,110,110,110,110

My question is: What is the lowest velocity number

this piano must > have to reliably play such fast moving music?
Spencer Chase's editor > will let you raise velocities in certain
ranges without bothering > other velocities.  The piano has just run
the self test and > calibration program and passed.  I just want to
know how much to raise > those soft notes. >>  >> Many thanks for all
comments. >>  >> Bob Gonzalez >> bgonzalez@j...

To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank  
email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join

Yahoo! Groups Links

        
            


-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356



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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.� It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
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Re[2]: [disklavier] Re: Minimum Velocities+self check

2005-09-28 by Spencer_Lists

Greetings Robert,

i still find it odd that a 70+ year old mechanism has no trouble with the repeated notes but a modern day, state of the are one does. i would be interested in knowing if the problem with the trill at lower velocity is just on the upright or if it is a problem with the grands too.

Tuesday, September 27, 2005, 5:07:25 PM, you wrote:

Be aware that there are basic differences in upright keyboard escapements versus of grands. � The grand escapement is specifically designed to allow more rapid repetition of single notes.

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