Disklavier

after waiting all this time and agonizing between the the DGC1 (5'3")
and the DC2 (5'8"). So I finally went for the C2 and had it 
delivered to my condo last week and, firstly, I can't believe how 
loud it is. I do have oak floors and only 8 foot ceilings but after 
listening to the C2 for hours in the store never thought it would be 
that loud in my place at the lowest setting (on acoustic). The 
dealer does not think the smaller DGC1 would be any quieter (not 
sure I agree), so I guess I am stuck and will be using the digital 
setting much more frequently than planned which really defeats the 
puropose. I haven't even tried the Disklav yet on the setting where 
other instruments are playing in the background. But... MUCH WORSE, 
the lid on my brand new baby has a blemish on it that was not 
noticeable in the store during the day but is very apparent in my 
home in the evening under the lights. Its about the size of a 
quarter on the top left edge in the very spot where the front lid 
flap comes down onto the main lid in the open position - so its only 
apparent when the full lid is closed, but very noticeable. It will 
not come off with with a damp cloth. The dealer is telling me not to 
worry - they will come look at it and that it will be fixed but I am 
worried about having anything done to a brand new piano after 
reading all the recommendations against applying any polishes or 
other chemicals that can damage the finish. And the thought of 
having it refinished really scares me. The dealer did say that in 
the worse case scenario they can replace the lid from another C2. 
Has anyone heard of doing that? Another dealer I happened to be 
chatting with said you can't do that - that each lid is unique to 
its own piano - i.e. that a lid from one C2 cannot just be put on 
another C2 - that it will not fit perfectly. I guess one other thing 
I could do is put a rubber stopper on the lid over the blemish to 
hide it (would have to put one on the other side as well) as I 
noticed that some grands have rubber stoppers on the lids for the 
front flaps to sit on - but Yamahas do not. Can anyone PLEASE give 
me some advice? I am so upset. New piano maybe? Thanks.
Ron

Hi Ron,
 
There are several things you can do to quieten down the piano.  I suggest
the following:
 
1)  Place a rug under the full length of the piano.  The sound reflection
off the oak floor will have a significant impact on the perceived loudness.
I too have hardwood floors and the difference before and after the rug is
quite astonishing.  The depth of pile of the rug should also be considered.
Plusher rugs tend to work better at this task.
 
2)  If a rug under the piano alone does not meet your needs for acoustic
dampening, then you need to consider similar dampening of other large
surfaces that are sound reflective  (i.e.  your walls).  If the walls are
bare, then they should be the next 'target area' after the floors.  Every
one has different taste, style and needs when it comes to wall decorations.
Decorative rugs work well in my opinion.  I have 3 young children so I also
use a fabric covered notice board on which I pin up the never ending supply
of drawings, painting and certificates of participation that get sent home.
 
3)  I purchased a genuine Yamaha piano cover moreso to protect my
investment, but it also helps dampen the acoustic loudness of the piano.
The outside of the cover is finished in a black satin (or similar) whilst
the inside is soft scarlet felt that matches the colour of the felt used
inside the piano.  Personally, I leave the cover on most of the time and
only flip open the front of the lid.  In that way I gain a good compromise
between loudness and visual effect.   It is also possible to open the lid
and leave the cover on.  I only take the cover off when I am putting on a
performance, the rest of the time it stays on and it looks the part. 
 
4)  Furniture placement is also a factor, especially items that have large
flat surfaces such as glass display cabinets.  Perhaps some rearrangement of
furniture might be doable ?
 
  
 
 
Re the blemish, I can well understand your angst !  One of my children is
severely autistic and much to my horror, when left in the care of a so
called 'professional carer' one day a couple of years back, he was 'allowed'
to chew all over the top of my music rest :(  Eventually my insurance
company made good on my claim of accidental damage, and I was provided with
a new music desk and rest, but not without a fight.  Luckily, you have
immediately pointed out the problem to your dealer.  It is their
responsibility to fix this, so keep at them until they do !  I know music
desk/rests, legs and lyres etc are available as spare parts from Yamaha so I
would be extremely surprised if lids were not also available.  I also
suspect that it would not be too difficult to get any such replacement lid
to fit your piano perfectly.  Yamaha spare parts are really good and the
fact that this piano is mass produced makes me suspect that tight tolerances
exist.  I'm sure someone else on this list has some experience with
restoring pianos and could perhaps confirm interchangeability of lids
between the exact same model of piano.
 
I sincerely hope that you do not have to go to the extent of getting the
whole piano replaced.  That sounds extreme given the problem is a minor
blemish which your dealer should take care of.
 
Best of luck and do let us know how you go with this.
 
Michael Weinstock
Melbourne, Australia
 
 
ps.  If you really want a smaller piano, I'd gladly swap you my DGH1 which
is 5'3".    I'd even throw in the much beloved aforementioned cover ;-)  

-----Original Message-----
From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of manhattanboy100
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:46 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [disklavier] So Disappointed - Just purchased my brand new DC2 Mark
IV.....



after waiting all this time and agonizing between the the DGC1 (5'3")
and the DC2 (5'8"). So I finally went for the C2 and had it 
delivered to my condo last week and, firstly, I can't believe how 
loud it is. I do have oak floors and only 8 foot ceilings but after 
listening to the C2 for hours in the store never thought it would be 
that loud in my place at the lowest setting (on acoustic). The 
dealer does not think the smaller DGC1 would be any quieter (not 
sure I agree), so I guess I am stuck and will be using the digital 
setting much more frequently than planned which really defeats the 
puropose. I haven't even tried the Disklav yet on the setting where 
other instruments are playing in the background. But... MUCH WORSE, 
the lid on my brand new baby has a blemish on it that was not 
noticeable in the store during the day but is very apparent in my 
home in the evening under the lights. Its about the size of a 
quarter on the top left edge in the very spot where the front lid 
flap comes down onto the main lid in the open position - so its only 
apparent when the full lid is closed, but very noticeable. It will 
not come off with with a damp cloth. The dealer is telling me not to 
worry - they will come look at it and that it will be fixed but I am 
worried about having anything done to a brand new piano after 
reading all the recommendations against applying any polishes or 
other chemicals that can damage the finish. And the thought of 
having it refinished really scares me. The dealer did say that in 
the worse case scenario they can replace the lid from another C2. 
Has anyone heard of doing that? Another dealer I happened to be 
chatting with said you can't do that - that each lid is unique to 
its own piano - i.e. that a lid from one C2 cannot just be put on 
another C2 - that it will not fit perfectly. I guess one other thing 
I could do is put a rubber stopper on the lid over the blemish to 
hide it (would have to put one on the other side as well) as I 
noticed that some grands have rubber stoppers on the lids for the 
front flaps to sit on - but Yamahas do not. Can anyone PLEASE give 
me some advice? I am so upset. New piano maybe? Thanks.
Ron

Ron,

If you get the smaller piano, it will be quieter in volume, but it 
probably wont have the bass or overall tonal depth of the larger C2.

Its all subjective though, so if you like the way the DGC1 sounds or 
if you cant tell the difference, exchange for the smaller piano.

Keep in mind that your C2 is designed to light up a 300-400 person 
sized room without amplification. You bought a piano with some real 
b@lls, and if I were you, Id be pretty smug about that. =)

Think about putting a nice persian rug big enough to fit under the 
c2. That will quiet it and soften it some.

If you bought a new C2 it shouldnt have ANY scratches, blems or 
problems of any kind. Dont let them pull any Sh__ on you.

Give them these options:
A) fix it
B) Replace It
C) Give you a substansial discount
or
D) Refund your money entirely

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "manhattanboy100" 
<manhattanboy100@...> wrote:
>
> after waiting all this time and agonizing between the the DGC1 
(5'3")
> and the DC2 (5'8"). So I finally went for the C2 and had it 
> delivered to my condo last week and, firstly, I can't believe how 
> loud it is. I do have oak floors and only 8 foot ceilings but 
after 
> listening to the C2 for hours in the store never thought it would 
be 
> that loud in my place at the lowest setting (on acoustic). The 
> dealer does not think the smaller DGC1 would be any quieter (not 
> sure I agree), so I guess I am stuck and will be using the digital 
> setting much more frequently than planned which really defeats the 
> puropose. I haven't even tried the Disklav yet on the setting 
where 
> other instruments are playing in the background. But... MUCH 
WORSE, 
> the lid on my brand new baby has a blemish on it that was not 
> noticeable in the store during the day but is very apparent in my 
> home in the evening under the lights. Its about the size of a 
> quarter on the top left edge in the very spot where the front lid 
> flap comes down onto the main lid in the open position - so its 
only 
> apparent when the full lid is closed, but very noticeable. It will 
> not come off with with a damp cloth. The dealer is telling me not 
to 
> worry - they will come look at it and that it will be fixed but I 
am 
> worried about having anything done to a brand new piano after 
> reading all the recommendations against applying any polishes or 
> other chemicals that can damage the finish. And the thought of 
> having it refinished really scares me. The dealer did say that in 
> the worse case scenario they can replace the lid from another C2. 
> Has anyone heard of doing that? Another dealer I happened to be 
> chatting with said you can't do that - that each lid is unique to 
> its own piano - i.e. that a lid from one C2 cannot just be put on 
> another C2 - that it will not fit perfectly. I guess one other 
thing 

> I could do is put a rubber stopper on the lid over the blemish to 
> hide it (would have to put one on the other side as well) as I 
> noticed that some grands have rubber stoppers on the lids for the 
> front flaps to sit on - but Yamahas do not. Can anyone PLEASE give 
> me some advice? I am so upset. New piano maybe? Thanks.
> Ron
>

Ron
 
Check this web site.
 
_https://www.pianoparts.com/index1.html_ 
(https://www.pianoparts.com/index1.html) 
 
In the search drop down click on sound isolation.
 
My DGC1A is in a 24' x 24' room with Cathedral ceiling and the volume is  
turned down all the way. So I am not sure if a smaller piano will help any. The  
person I bought it from sold it because it was too loud for his apartment. He  
had it on hardwood floors also. 
You will also find that the PianoSoft Audio Plus Cd's vary  in volume and 
some can be very loud. I am glad I got the Silent  System on my Mark III so I can 
at least adjust the audio output to  match the piano volume.
There is not much you can do with the piano volume though. A rug under the  
piano will help a lot. 
 
Good Luck



************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. 
 Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Ron, any dealer knows about this issue, our dealer here in Orlando  
cautioned us on this. Our living room is 50X25 with a single pitch  
cathedral ceiling and the DGC1A is so loud on the low settings it's  
hard to have a conversation in the room. All the way up and the  
neighbors can hear it if our windows are open 400 feet away. Now it  
sounds great, you just have to listen to the performance and not  
expect to be talking at the same time. Forget about the cocktail  
party with the piano in the background, it's going to be in the  
foreground. I would imagine the C2 would be all that much louder. We  
tried the rug thing and treatments on the walls to an extent with no  
noticeable reduction. I think it's going to be very loud for you  
period. Yes using the speakers is a complete waste of time since you  
are just listening to a pair of speakers driven by a synthesizer  
facing the floor, not an acoustic piano. Perhaps you should try the  
DGC1A. If the dealer did not caution you about volume you should call  
them on this for sure, they know about the problem you are having,  
don't let them tell you otherwise.

JI

On Mar 16, 2007, at 10:45 PM, manhattanboy100 wrote:

> after waiting all this time and agonizing between the the DGC1 (5'3")
> and the DC2 (5'8"). So I finally went for the C2 and had it
> delivered to my condo last week and, firstly, I can't believe how
> loud it is. I do have oak floors and only 8 foot ceilings but after
> listening to the C2 for hours in the store never thought it would be
> that loud in my place at the lowest setting (on acoustic). The
> dealer does not think the smaller DGC1 would be any quieter (not
> sure I agree), so I guess I am stuck and will be using the digital
> setting much more frequently than planned which really defeats the
> puropose. I haven't even tried the Disklav yet on the setting where
> other instruments are playing in the background. But... MUCH WORSE,
> the lid on my brand new baby has a blemish on it that was not
> noticeable in the store during the day but is very apparent in my
> home in the evening under the lights. Its about the size of a
> quarter on the top left edge in the very spot where the front lid
> flap comes down onto the main lid in the open position - so its only
> apparent when the full lid is closed, but very noticeable. It will
> not come off with with a damp cloth. The dealer is telling me not to
> worry - they will come look at it and that it will be fixed but I am
> worried about having anything done to a brand new piano after
> reading all the recommendations against applying any polishes or
> other chemicals that can damage the finish. And the thought of
> having it refinished really scares me. The dealer did say that in
> the worse case scenario they can replace the lid from another C2.
> Has anyone heard of doing that? Another dealer I happened to be
> chatting with said you can't do that - that each lid is unique to
> its own piano - i.e. that a lid from one C2 cannot just be put on
> another C2 - that it will not fit perfectly. I guess one other thing
> I could do is put a rubber stopper on the lid over the blemish to
> hide it (would have to put one on the other side as well) as I
> noticed that some grands have rubber stoppers on the lids for the
> front flaps to sit on - but Yamahas do not. Can anyone PLEASE give
> me some advice? I am so upset. New piano maybe? Thanks.
> Ron
>
>
>
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Here is another website you can checkout for sound reduction.  It
seems like a really high quality product.  Good luck!!! 
http://www.edwardsstringcovers.com/


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "manhattanboy100" 

<manhattanboy100@...> wrote:

>
> after waiting all this time and agonizing between the the DGC1 (5'3")
> and the DC2 (5'8"). So I finally went for the C2 and had it 
> delivered to my condo last week and, firstly, I can't believe how 
> loud it is. I do have oak floors and only 8 foot ceilings but after 
> listening to the C2 for hours in the store never thought it would be 
> that loud in my place at the lowest setting (on acoustic). The 
> dealer does not think the smaller DGC1 would be any quieter (not 
> sure I agree), so I guess I am stuck and will be using the digital 
> setting much more frequently than planned which really defeats the 
> puropose. I haven't even tried the Disklav yet on the setting where 
> other instruments are playing in the background. But... MUCH WORSE, 
> the lid on my brand new baby has a blemish on it that was not 
> noticeable in the store during the day but is very apparent in my 
> home in the evening under the lights. Its about the size of a 
> quarter on the top left edge in the very spot where the front lid 
> flap comes down onto the main lid in the open position - so its only 
> apparent when the full lid is closed, but very noticeable. It will 
> not come off with with a damp cloth. The dealer is telling me not to 
> worry - they will come look at it and that it will be fixed but I am 
> worried about having anything done to a brand new piano after 
> reading all the recommendations against applying any polishes or 
> other chemicals that can damage the finish. And the thought of 
> having it refinished really scares me. The dealer did say that in 
> the worse case scenario they can replace the lid from another C2. 
> Has anyone heard of doing that? Another dealer I happened to be 
> chatting with said you can't do that - that each lid is unique to 
> its own piano - i.e. that a lid from one C2 cannot just be put on 
> another C2 - that it will not fit perfectly. I guess one other thing 
> I could do is put a rubber stopper on the lid over the blemish to 
> hide it (would have to put one on the other side as well) as I 
> noticed that some grands have rubber stoppers on the lids for the 
> front flaps to sit on - but Yamahas do not. Can anyone PLEASE give 
> me some advice? I am so upset. New piano maybe? Thanks.
> Ron
>

I think everything you are concerned about can be
fixed.  The blemish on the cabinet can be obliterated
by a good furniture touch-up person.  I am sure the
dealer employs one!  The loudness can be taken care of
in at least three ways.  First, have the piano
technician come out and voice the piano.  I have yet to
meet a set of piano hammers that cannot be voiced
quietly!  The tech can also get in maintenance mode and
turn down the velocity.  There may also be a software
update that will fix this problem.

Put a thick carpet under the piano.  Use those foam
baffles.  I have included some information about them
on my website:  www.carolrpt.com.  Either make them
yourself or buy them from Edwards String Covers.  Use
at least two layers UNDER the piano, and if that does
not do the trick, use a layer on top of the strings
under the lid. The nice thing about baffles on top is
that they are easily removed when you want to hear more
volume.

There is software that will also allow you to turn down
the volume, also on my website.  However, I doubt you
will need it.  If you are trying to hold a conversation
while listening to your piano, I doubt it will be
noticed that the music is actually coming from the
amplifier instead of the strings.  Try out all the
features on your instrument and learn to customize the
settings for your tastes.  It is a wonderful instrument
and should give you everything you ask!

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message -----
From: "manhattanboy100" <manhattanboy100@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: [disklavier] So Disappointed - Just purchased
my brand new DC2 Mark IV.....


> after waiting all this time and agonizing between the
the DGC1 (5'3")
> and the DC2 (5'8"). So I finally went for the C2 and
had it
> delivered to my condo last week and, firstly, I can't
believe how
> loud it is. I do have oak floors and only 8 foot
ceilings but after
> listening to the C2 for hours in the store never
thought it would be
> that loud in my place at the lowest setting (on
acoustic). The
> dealer does not think the smaller DGC1 would be any
quieter (not
> sure I agree), so I guess I am stuck and will be
using the digital
> setting much more frequently than planned which
really defeats the
> puropose. I haven't even tried the Disklav yet on the
setting where
> other instruments are playing in the background.
But... MUCH WORSE,
> the lid on my brand new baby has a blemish on it that
was not
> noticeable in the store during the day but is very
apparent in my
> home in the evening under the lights. Its about the
size of a
> quarter on the top left edge in the very spot where
the front lid
> flap comes down onto the main lid in the open
position - so its only
> apparent when the full lid is closed, but very
noticeable. It will
> not come off with with a damp cloth. The dealer is
telling me not to
> worry - they will come look at it and that it will be
fixed but I am
> worried about having anything done to a brand new
piano after
> reading all the recommendations against applying any
polishes or
> other chemicals that can damage the finish. And the
thought of
> having it refinished really scares me. The dealer did
say that in
> the worse case scenario they can replace the lid from
another C2.
> Has anyone heard of doing that? Another dealer I
happened to be
> chatting with said you can't do that - that each lid
is unique to
> its own piano - i.e. that a lid from one C2 cannot
just be put on
> another C2 - that it will not fit perfectly. I guess
one other thing
> I could do is put a rubber stopper on the lid over
the blemish to
> hide it (would have to put one on the other side as
well) as I
> noticed that some grands have rubber stoppers on the
lids for the
> front flaps to sit on - but Yamahas do not. Can
anyone PLEASE give
> me some advice? I am so upset. New piano maybe?
Thanks.
> Ron
>
>
>
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>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:
disklavier@...
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>
>
>

Hi Ron,

Another Ron here.   I know how you feel.  I purchased a DC5 (Mark III, 
slightly used)
from of all places Manhattan.   Yes the sound is daunting in the room I 
have it in
(if the piano was any longer it would be a tough fit).    For my own 
playing I don't
mind (it does bother my wife).   The canned Disklavier disks are on the 
fringe of
being too loud even at their minimum setting.

Since the Mk3 doesn't have all the lovely computer storage built in, 
most of my
material I keep on a PC (which rolls around in a little rack under the 
piano).
I use the Van Basco karaoke player to library all the pieces.  It has  a 
very
nice "midi volume" that will get the piano down to a reasonable volume.

The finish on the piano is repairable, especially if you haven't applied 
anything
with silicones or waxes to it.   That's the beauty of laquer.   New 
finish will
disolve into the existing finish and blend perfectly.

I think that most of this disappointment is unwarranted.  All of these problems can be taken care of.  Any good woodworker can completely eliminate the