Disklavier

Hi all

After a lengthy absence (taking piano lessons) I'm back again and I hope someone on the forum has some advice they can offer.

I have an MX100IIXG which has just celebrated its 10th birthday and sounds even better than when it arrived from the dealer (take a bow Greg - my tuner). I've used Bose powered speakers (PC speakers) for the ensemble parts for many years but they have recently failed.

I thought I could send the ensemble signal to a pre-amp then into the main stereo I have in the living room. Unfortunately the sound is very poor quality - and somewhat distorted at higher volumes. I tried changing the balance on the main menu, but that made little difference.

Has anybody connected their XG module through a stereo system, or should I just go out and buy another pair of powered speakers? The latter seems a waste as the stereo (Bose) is quite an excellent unit.

Cheers
Ken

My suggestion is that you buy new powered speakers.  Usually, the better 
quality the sound, the uglier they are!  I own a MarkIIXG.  The output is 
dual monaural, so you don't really need a set of stereo speakers unless you 
want the same sound coming from two different places. Ensemble sounds are 
not audio, but MIDI instruments (data run through a synthesizer), and that 
is why you need powered speakers.

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "kenmortgages" <kenmortgages@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:52 PM
Subject: [disklavier] External Speakers for MX100IIXG


> Hi all
>
> After a lengthy absence (taking piano lessons) I'm back again and I hope 
> someone on the forum has some advice they can offer.
>
> I have an MX100IIXG which has just celebrated its 10th birthday and sounds 
> even better than when it arrived from the dealer (take a bow Greg - my 
> tuner). I've used Bose powered speakers (PC speakers) for the ensemble 
> parts for many years but they have recently failed.
>
> I thought I could send the ensemble signal to a pre-amp then into the main 
> stereo I have in the living room. Unfortunately the sound is very poor 
> quality - and somewhat distorted at higher volumes. I tried changing the 
> balance on the main menu, but that made little difference.
>
> Has anybody connected their XG module through a stereo system, or should I 
> just go out and buy another pair of powered speakers? The latter seems a 
> waste as the stereo (Bose) is quite an excellent unit.
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
>
>
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Hi All

 

I own a Disklavier M3 (DYUS1) and did some research into powered monitors
because the wireless connections to my HiFi did not work very well. 

I thought a nice compromise would be the Yamaha MSP3 Powered Monitor. It can
be fit / tinkered in the piano, directly to the big board that you would
dismount when tuning your piano, firing up to the upper lid, that can be set
open for more volume. Most speakers won't fit in there so that was a big
premium not wanting to see more electrical equipment.

 

Just give it a thought; I have not done the experiment but will definitely
do so in due time.

 

Best regards

Dirk

 

 

Van: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] Namens
kenmortgages
Verzonden: zondag 10 januari 2010 0:53
Aan: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [SPAM] [disklavier] External Speakers for MX100IIXG

 

  

Hi all

After a lengthy absence (taking piano lessons) I'm back again and I hope
someone on the forum has some advice they can offer.

I have an MX100IIXG which has just celebrated its 10th birthday and sounds
even better than when it arrived from the dealer (take a bow Greg - my
tuner). I've used Bose powered speakers (PC speakers) for the ensemble parts
for many years but they have recently failed.

I thought I could send the ensemble signal to a pre-amp then into the main
stereo I have in the living room. Unfortunately the sound is very poor
quality - and somewhat distorted at higher volumes. I tried changing the
balance on the main menu, but that made little difference.

Has anybody connected their XG module through a stereo system, or should I
just go out and buy another pair of powered speakers? The latter seems a
waste as the stereo (Bose) is quite an excellent unit.

Cheers
Ken





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database 4758 (20100110) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

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Ken,
You should be able to do that. Can you give any more details, like what 
is the 'pre-amp' that you mention, type & length of cables, type of 
input on the stereo?

Scott Jackson

kenmortgages wrote:

>  
>
> I thought I could send the ensemble signal to a pre-amp then into the 
> main stereo I have in the living room. Unfortunately the sound is very 
> poor quality - and somewhat distorted at higher volumes. I tried 
> changing the balance on the main menu, but that made little difference.
>

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Scott Jackson <scottwaynejackson@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
> You should be able to do that. Can you give any more details, like what 
> is the 'pre-amp' that you mention, type & length of cables, type of 
> input on the stereo?
> 
> Scott Jackson
> 
Thanks Scott, Carol, Pianobench & Dirk

The pre-amp was just an inexpensive Tandy job. Its main function is to enable a turntable input to the main stereo.

I kept the cables to 1.5 metres (a little under 5 feet) and the inputs I have available are Auxiliary, Video and Tape. I tried them all to no avail. I'm pretty sure that Carol is correct - the XG output is not normal audio but I'm not sure it's a digital output either.

I also followed up on Carol's advice and borrowed a reasonable quality (Creative Gigabyte T40) set of powered speakers. These worked after a fashion, but the reproduction is very "tinny". I modified some midi files to change volume, velocity (very touchy on some piano parts as we know) and fiddled the balance. My partner has a sharp ear and told me the resulting ensemble sounds were worse than some of my practice sessions. :)

Yamaha Australia isn't very helpful with advice either, but I did track down a Yamaha MSP3 at a large music outlet (apparently they are now superseded) for about AUD375 - twice what they are in the US on the web. I'm going to have a look and listen later in the week. JBL also has a monitor speaker that might work, and it's about $250.

Any more suggestions are welcome!

Greetings kenmortgages,

i tend to stay away from Radio Schlock stuff because most of it is
crap but they do have a nice little mixer for about $39 that matches
impedances and allows reasonable control over gain. of course, they
require you to add a power supply to it for another $25 if you buy it
from them, but it will run on almost any DC wall wart over about 5
volts.

i do prefer the stuff made by Radio Design Labs. they have some really
nice little mixers and also a passive combiner that is useful. you can
find their stuff on E-Bay for about 20% of list price. i just got
about $350 worth of stuff for a project for $49 this included a mike
preamp with huge gain. their stuff is much cleaner than the RS models.

Monday, January 11, 2010, 2:53:22 PM, you wrote: >   


> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Scott Jackson <scottwaynejackson@...> wrote:
>>
>> Ken,
>> You should be able to do that. Can you give any more details, like what 
>> is the 'pre-amp' that you mention, type & length of cables, type of 
>> input on the stereo?
>> 
>> Scott Jackson
>> 
> Thanks Scott, Carol, Pianobench & Dirk

> The pre-amp was just an inexpensive Tandy job. Its main function is
> to enable a turntable input to the main stereo.

> I kept the cables to 1.5 metres (a little under 5 feet) and the
> inputs I have available are Auxiliary, Video and Tape. I tried them
> all to no avail. I'm pretty sure that Carol is correct - the XG
> output is not normal audio but I'm not sure it's a digital output either.

> I also followed up on Carol's advice and borrowed a reasonable
> quality (Creative Gigabyte T40) set of powered speakers. These
> worked after a fashion, but the reproduction is very "tinny". I
> modified some midi files to change volume, velocity (very touchy on
> some piano parts as we know) and fiddled the balance. My partner has
> a sharp ear and told me the resulting ensemble sounds were worse
> than some of my practice sessions.  

> Yamaha Australia isn't very helpful with advice either, but I did
> track down a Yamaha MSP3 at a large music outlet (apparently they
> are now superseded) for about AUD375 - twice what they are in the US
> on the web. I'm going to have a look and listen later in the week.
> JBL also has a monitor speaker that might work, and it's about $250.

> Any more suggestions are welcome!

> 
 

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--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Frank & Gean Evans" <evans@...> wrote:
>
> Just one more suggestion... Have you tried to connect the XG output direct into the "Aux" input on the sound system without the preamp? 
> It sounds like your signal level is  high enough with out a preamp.
> Just a thought.
> Regards
> Frank
 
Thanks Frank

Tried that some time ago.  Very faint signal that kicked the overload when I tried to nurture it higher. On a positive note, Yamaha Australia have contacted me again in an effort to find a solution. Sell me a MkIV?

Cheers

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...> wrote:
>
> Of course there is an ultra sonic signal in the audio file; it's the MIDI data.  From the box on the MarkIIXG, you only take one cable into the speaker from the L mono output.
> 
> There is a diffence between MIDI data output and that from a turntable.  The turntable is audio output.  You plug it into your stereo amplifier and it comes out great through the speakers.
> 
> MIDI data is data; not an audio file.  You need a tone generator to hear any sounds - and there can be any number of them reproducint the MIDI data.  The same data can be trumpets, strings, chorus, etc.  It is what is produced through the tone generator that comes out the speakers for the Ensemble sounds.
> 
> The MIDI data on Channel 1 and 2 play the keys on the piano, but that data can also be simultaneously output through the tone generator as a tone generated piano sound.  I believe the setting on the Disklavier is keyboard out.
> 
> You need a lot of power to hear MIDI data.  I have been playing with the MIDI data from my piano and converting it with Virtual Instruments through Apple's Logic Studio and now Pro Tools 8LE with my MBox2.  I am amazed how good the Native Instruments Akoustic piano sounds through the MBox2 versus the soundcard on the iMac.
> 
> The MarkIIXG has a daughter board inside that is the tone generator (the DB50?).  Converting MIDI to digital audio takes lots of computing power, and the results are proportional to what is costs to set it up.  To hear an expample, take one of your Disklavier files with Ensemble sounds into your computer and listen to it.  On my PC desktop, the sound was so unbearably awful I went on a 3 year quest to improve it!
> 
> The minimun good powered speakers I have heard on these things start at $150 per speaker, but the $300 ones sound a lot better. (The $1000 per pair sound even better but they will never be a part of this household!)
> 
> Carol Beigel
> 

Hi Carol

Actually the "Output" from that port on the DKC500RXG is audio (analogue) - it can't be MIDI because that's a digital signal and you couldn't put that into any sort of speaker.  All that clever stuff is done inside the control unit.  What really galls me is that Yamaha doesn't seem to know the output strength of the signal.  If I knew that I could find the way to get a clean signal into my stereo.

However, given the clues here I've had discussions with several audio technicians in Sydney today (where the DK and I reside), and Friday I'm going to borrow a Behringer speaker to try out at home.  You wouldn't believe how many times I've been asked to "bring in the instrument and we'll test out our systems for you".

The real issue is the cost of the speakers, and for a single speaker I'm expecting to pay $500.  And it looks quite ugly as well.  Hopefully it's going to be the right combination, and I can camouflage it as well.

I recently had the pleasure of listening to a MkIV Grand in a city shopping centre (the QVB for locals) and the sound is VERY impressive.  However at $60+k it's not coming out of my retirement nest egg.  I still think that Yamaha Disklaviers are amongst the best instruments in the world; and I've worked on 4 continents over the last 35 years and heard and seen a lot.

I'll keep the forum posted with progress.  As always, the input, comments and knowledge here are immense.

Cheers
Ken

Finally! It wasn't all that difficult, particularly taking Carol's advice. I purchased a pair of Behringer MS40 powered speakers from my local music shop, after listening to a Yamaha MSP3A, a Yamaha HS-50M and a JBL upmarket something expensive. The Behringers are slightly more porweful than the equivalent Yamaha, not as pretty looking, but at USD200 a good deal. The sound output is excellent for an average living room. Like the MSP3A they have in-built tone control which adds to the experience.

The music shop was quite happy to let me take the speakers home to try them, offering a full refund if I wasn't satisfied. Believe me, that approach was refreshing.

Thanks everyone for your input. That did the trick, whilst I'm still waiting on a reply from Yamaha Australia.

Bring on the DKC-850 now.