EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Technodork, I'm afraid to inform you that you will NOT be seeing native systems running at the efficiency of dedicated DSP hardware
systems like Pro Tools.  I own a G4 running Logic Platinum with lots of RAM, big drives etc. etc. and I work with Pro Tools on a regular
basis.  There are several key elements you left out of your discussion.  First of all, the type of plug-in determines how many you can
open.  Logic's own plug-ins run native 32bit under Logic's audio engine which is G4 native.  As a result you have a high plug-in count.
The minute you start using CPU intensive plug-ins that are non native such as the Waves plug-ins, that plug-in count drops hugely.  In
reality the native Logic plug-ins, although I love them, do not compete with the Gold bundle's sound quality in any respect.  As far as
the track count is concerned, you may be seeing 80 tracks of audio, but as soon as you start making edits and cuts in those tracks, the
strain on the hard drive will increase dramatically and your track count will decrease.  Sure if you have 80 linear tracks of audio with
no edits or cuts or crossfades or any other edit of any sort, they'll play back.  Start cutting and your track count will drop.

The comparison between Pro Tools and native systems is beginning to get ridiculous.  Pro Tools allows 64 tracks of audio playing back with
hundreds of edits and cuts and fades without so much as a hiccup.  This is not the case of native systems.  Also, most importantly, the
TDM plug-ins are way better.  Way better.  For that very same reason, companies like Bomb Factory, Serrato, Focusrite, Lexicon and a
shopping list of others will NOT support VST.  In the professional arena, you cannot compare say Roomulator with the Lexiverb.  Or compare
Finalator with C4.  Now I'm gonna get a hundred replies saying that they do professional work and who am I to say you're not a
professional if you don't own Pro Tools, so let me qualify by saying that Pro Tools has merely set the professional standard.  That
standard is first and foremost, compatibility.  Almost all pros working in film and tv for example own a Pro Tools rig simply so they can
be one hundred percent compatible with one another.  This saves time since time costs money.  They simply take their drives and plug them
in, and since they all have the same plug-ins, the sessions immediately open and play back irregardless of how many plug-ins or tracks or
edits.  This is not the same process on a native system.  A Cubase user on his multiprocessor G4 with a gazillion megs of RAM and fourteen
500 gig firewire drives cannot simply get up and go to another studio with a different G4 or G3 setup running Logic or Digital Performer
and be up and running in a minute, or at all.

So to answer your remarks Technodork, this system may work well when you work alone or if you have non-stop linear audio, but the moment
things get a hair more complicated than that, native is not the answer.

Oh, and one more thing.  Before you get too excited about the new quad processor machines, remember dedicated DSP hardware systems like
Pro Tools are not standing still in time.  Digidesign WILL continue to push their DSP farm cards to newer levels effectively placing them
several levels above native, just as they are now.  Native has made progress, but their is still no comparison.  I, like you work with
native, and I am a working professional making my entire living with these goodies, and although happy with native's capability, can in
reality see why people pay large sums for their Pro Tools rigs.

My two cents...

Kaveh Cohen.

technodork_2000@... wrote:

> Sadie, Sonic, ProTools, all just tools of choice, use what works
> best for you. Although both Sadie and Sonic aren't real multitrack
> solutions, especially when it comes down to availability of plug
> ins, and cost per track. Sonic has always been rediculously
> overpriced for what it offered, Sadie was a much more affordable
> tool, used mainly only for broadcast and mastering suites, and
> Sonic soon to be relegated to nothing more than a DVD
> authoriing system. I used a Sadie for 3 years, and loved it, very
> intuitive interface, but they never kept up with Digidesign on
> number of tracks, and I/O and compatibility of plug ins.
>
> I completely disagree with your statement -
> " CPU = Costs savings.  Limited amount of resource for
> multi-track editing" thats a rediculous statement, or at least one
> from someone that doesn't own a current computer, I am
> running a Dual Processor 533mhz Mac with 1 gig of ram,
> running Logic Platinum, and I can get over 80 tracks of audio,
> with more plug-ins than you can count, I record them into Logic
> as SDII's, transfer them over to a VST Firewire drive, and hand
> them to my mix guy with Pro Tools Mix Plus, he plugs in the
> FireWire drive, drags the files into Pro Tools, and wa
> laaaaaah........, except he has to start muting tracks immediately
> because of the 64 voice limit on Pro Tools.
>
> All this to say, with Multi processor machines, and increasing
> chip speed and efficiency, and the soon to come Quad
> Processor Macs.............host based systems will be equally
> capable as their TDM counterparts, just wait for Logic 5.0.........