EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Message posted by king karnov <kingkarnov@...>:

hello im new, well, how do i individually envelope my drums, in a quick and
efficient way?

At 23:57 Uhr -0500 08.09.2006, king karnov wrote:
>Message posted by king karnov 
><<mailto:kingkarnov%40hotmail.com>kingkarnov@...>:
>
>hello im new, well, how do i individually envelope my drums, in a quick and
>efficient way?


But them all on different tracks and instruments.

One EXS instance and track for the kick
One EXS instance and track for the snare
etc...

Fastest and simplest way.

What do you mean by the word "envelope"?

At 11:48 AM 9/9/2006, you wrote:

>What do you mean by the word "envelope"?

Send me a letter and either I'll explain it to you, or you'll already 
have figured it out (by definition). OK, dumb joke.

An "envelope" is the term used for a parameter in a sampler that 
alters the attack and release of a sound (among other things). You 
can take a sound and make it "fade in" from silence as you hit a key, 
or take a sound and have it "fade out" after you release the key.

Drum sounds need short or no fading in, so you'd set the Attack 
parameter of the envelope to 0. Soft pad sounds need fading in 
usually, so you'd set the attack time to "50" or some larger number.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

--- Garth Hjelte <garth@...> wrote:

> At 11:48 AM 9/9/2006, you wrote:
> 
> >What do you mean by the word "envelope"?
> 
> Send me a letter and either I'll explain it to you,
> or you'll already 
> have figured it out (by definition). OK, dumb joke.

Oh man,

you don't really explain to someone what an envelope
is? There are 1000 web pages and 10 printed pages in
the manual. Also a young user should be encouraged to
dinf out on his own or how will he ever learn it?

ts ts ts - so you choose to waste your time with your
message as I choose to waste my time with this one :-)

Cheers
J


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jurgen Frenz - Beijing Film Academy - Sound Department
7 Huangtingzi #405
100088 Beijing - PRC
Mobile +86 135 110 220 34
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You're both missing the point. The original question was, "how do i
individually envelope my drums, in a quick and
efficient way?"

Since drum envelopes are fairly obvious, the way he phrased his
question was in such a way that I thought he intended another meaning.
I'm still waiting for the original poster to answer the question.

At 04:40 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote:

>You're both missing the point. The original question was, "how do i
>individually envelope my drums, in a quick and
>efficient way?"
>
>Since drum envelopes are fairly obvious, the way he phrased his
>question was in such a way that I thought he intended another meaning.
>I'm still waiting for the original poster to answer the question.

Oh, OK, I see. I missed the main point because you didn't quote him, 
your question was just "out there".

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

At 12:50 AM 9/9/2006, you wrote:

> >hello im new, well, how do i individually envelope my drums, in a quick and
> >efficient way?
>
>But them all on different tracks and instruments.
>
>One EXS instance and track for the kick
>One EXS instance and track for the snare
>etc...
>
>Fastest and simplest way.

You can also use Groups to set up individual envelope settings for 
each drum, so you only have to use one isntance.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

At 9:24 Uhr -0500 11.09.2006, Garth Hjelte wrote:
>At 12:50 AM 9/9/2006, you wrote:
>
>> >hello im new, well, how do i individually envelope my drums, in a quick and
>> >efficient way?
>>
>>But them all on different tracks and instruments.
>>
>>One EXS instance and track for the kick
>>One EXS instance and track for the snare
>>etc...
>>
>>Fastest and simplest way.
>
>You can also use Groups to set up individual envelope settings for
>each drum, so you only have to use one isntance.

Of course, but the visual overview is a mess to say it mildly.

;-)

Cheers
Hans

At 11:39 AM 9/11/2006, you wrote:

> >> >hello im new, well, how do i individually envelope my drums, in 
> a quick and
> >> >efficient way?
> >>
> >>But them all on different tracks and instruments.
> >>
> >>One EXS instance and track for the kick
> >>One EXS instance and track for the snare
> >>etc...
> >>
> >>Fastest and simplest way.
> >
> >You can also use Groups to set up individual envelope settings for
> >each drum, so you only have to use one isntance.

>Of course, but the visual overview is a mess to say it mildly.

Makes sense, you'd have say 4-5 EXS instances and you'd see the 
settings on the front panel graphically. Still, a bit overkill?

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

At 12:29 Uhr -0500 11.09.2006, Garth Hjelte wrote:
>Makes sense, you'd have say 4-5 EXS instances and you'd see the
>settings on the front panel graphically. Still, a bit overkill?

I agree, but faster to work with. And I can apply different compressors, filters and FX to each of the instruments.

There is no way to do all that in one instance without it becoming a total mess.

But think about it, that's what it used to be: kick on channel one, snare on channel two etc... from a mix standpoint it makes _much_ more sense.

Cheers
Hans

At 02:05 PM 9/11/2006, you wrote:

> >Makes sense, you'd have say 4-5 EXS instances and you'd see the
> >settings on the front panel graphically. Still, a bit overkill?
>
>I agree, but faster to work with. And I can apply different 
>compressors, filters and FX to each of the instruments.

That's right, you give yourself the ability to "open up".

>There is no way to do all that in one instance without it becoming a 
>total mess.

It's not that bad, in fact it's all right and easy if you are used to 
the editor. In fact, if you are doing drums, Groups are essential - see below.

Just open up the EXS editor, and the Groups show nicely to the right. 
They show the proper group via MIDI if you set it up that way.

>But think about it, that's what it used to be: kick on channel one, 
>snare on channel two etc... from a mix standpoint it makes _much_ more sense.

I programmed some of Discrete Drums stuff, whose claim to fame is 
multi-channel drum sets. I custom-programmed them to use different 
outputs, out of the Groups. It's not mandatory to have to use 
separate instances if you want separate outputs.

Plus, the groups allow the hi-hat muting, plus any other drum muting 
you may want - PLUS any Round Robin things.

Nevertheless, I'm agreeing with you and not disputing what you are 
saying. Just a different angle, point of view.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

At 15:00 Uhr -0500 11.09.2006, Garth Hjelte wrote:
>It's not that bad, in fact it's all right and easy if you are used to
>the editor. In fact, if you are doing drums, Groups are essential - see below.
>
>Just open up the EXS editor, and the Groups show nicely to the right.
>They show the proper group via MIDI if you set it up that way.

I'm not trying to be a stickler, yes, you can have different envelopes for different groups.

But on top of the PITA that that involves and the fact that it's written to the instrument and might not be useful in the next song you can't apply different FX to single instruments in this setup.

Personally I think yes, technically the EXS can work as a drum sampler, but practically it's baloni and you have to split it up to get decent results.

Cheers
Hans

At 01:21 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:

> >It's not that bad, in fact it's all right and easy if you are used to
> >the editor. In fact, if you are doing drums, Groups are essential 
> - see below.
> >
> >Just open up the EXS editor, and the Groups show nicely to the right.
> >They show the proper group via MIDI if you set it up that way.

>I'm not trying to be a stickler, yes, you can have different 
>envelopes for different groups.
>
>But on top of the PITA that that involves and the fact that it's 
>written to the instrument and might not be useful in the next song 
>you can't apply different FX to single instruments in this setup.
>
>Personally I think yes, technically the EXS can work as a drum 
>sampler, but practically it's baloni and you have to split it up to 
>get decent results.

Makes sense, thanks for the discussion.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

At 8:54 Uhr -0500 12.09.2006, Garth Hjelte wrote:
>Makes sense, thanks for the discussion.

Another reason why I abandoned the EXS to work as a drum sampler was: when you use the multiout EXS and different outputs and AUX object to apply FX to different channels you run into the problem Logic has with soloing when auxes and busses are used.

I discussed this behaviour in length on the LUG and finally people understood that soloing does as a matter of fact not work correctly in a setup such as would make sense for a multiout drum instrument.

Again: it is possible but not very practical.

And from a practical stand-point my personal suggestion is to just use one instrument per EXS instance.

Cheers
Hans