EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

One thing I wonder about is HIP HOP, TECHNO and all the thousands of Reggea 
tracks that has stolen sounds lyrics etc who is going to pay for this????

I think you are to naive to think that all those people are paying for 
themselvs and there are millions of people like them...

If I would me Stevie Wonder and someone sampled my tacks and didn\ufffdt pay for 
it I wouldn\ufffdt mind at all as long as the tracks are good..

I know that Roy Ayers is at least one of the guys I\ufffdve heard from that he 
feels happy to know that people sample him of.

And the music industry suck balls so I hope that they will continue to 
sample of big artists and good tracks!!

Like somebody else said here with Vanilla Ice thay played the same stuff as 
Sly and that\ufffds very common so I can\ufffdt imagine a world without stolen melodys 
that\ufffds the most common thing nowadays especially with software sampler midi 
tracks over the net FTP links with sounds etc....

It\ufffds part of the world and I like it and for all you sample companies I wish 
you the best but don\ufffdt count on to much rising business that\ufffds what I think 
anyway and if you don\ufffdt like it I don\ufffdt care!!

Anyway thanks for all the good EXS instruments they have keept me from 
buying sample CD\ufffds THANKS!!!

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.



_________________________________________________________________
H\ufffdmta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt p\ufffd http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp

Hi Alvaro

--- In exs-users@y..., "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001@h...> wrote:
> One thing I wonder about is HIP HOP, TECHNO and all the thousands 
of Reggea 
> tracks that has stolen sounds lyrics etc who is going to pay for 
this????

If they don't pay then they steal. The artist and the record company 
should clear everything before they use it. If not, the copyright 
holder can sue them.
 
> And the music industry suck balls so I hope that they will continue 
to 
> sample of big artists and good tracks!!
> 
> Like somebody else said here with Vanilla Ice thay played the same 
stuff as 
> Sly and that´s very common so I can´t imagine a world without 
stolen melodys 

If somebody steals another person's melody the copyright holder can 
sue him or her. That's what happened to Bee Gees (How Deep Is Your 
Love) and George Harrison (My Sweet Lord). Both of them paid lots of 
money for having stolen (knowingly or not, who knows) someone else's 
melody.

> It´s part of the world and I like it and for all you sample 
companies I wish 
> you the best but don´t count on to much rising business that´s what 
I think 
> anyway and if you don´t like it I don´t care!!

No matter what you feel you should at least be aware that you are 
breaking the law. What you choose to do with that knowledge is your 
own business. But I will strongly advice you to clear any lifted 
samples or whatever if you ever publish anything. That's for your own 
sake, mate.

Kind regards,

Soren Riis-Vestergaard

I understand but I\ufffdve heard tracks from Madonna-Busta Rhymes and I know they 
haven\ufffdt payed for all they used that\ufffds the thing I just think it\ufffds very 
strange that people like they don\ufffdt pay even if they really can afford it 
and I just wonder why??

Anyway I don\ufffdt want to start a copyright war I just really don\ufffdt understand 
major acts not paying and that\ufffds like everyday lunch for normal people!!

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.


>From: "sorenrv" <sorenrv@...>
>Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [exs] Re: Copyrights
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:24:25 -0000
>
>Hi Alvaro
>
>--- In exs-users@y..., "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001@h...> wrote:
> > One thing I wonder about is HIP HOP, TECHNO and all the thousands
>of Reggea
> > tracks that has stolen sounds lyrics etc who is going to pay for
>this????
>
>If they don't pay then they steal. The artist and the record company
>should clear everything before they use it. If not, the copyright
>holder can sue them.
>
> > And the music industry suck balls so I hope that they will continue
>to
> > sample of big artists and good tracks!!
> >
> > Like somebody else said here with Vanilla Ice thay played the same
>stuff as
> > Sly and that\ufffds very common so I can\ufffdt imagine a world without
>stolen melodys
>
>If somebody steals another person's melody the copyright holder can
>sue him or her. That's what happened to Bee Gees (How Deep Is Your
>Love) and George Harrison (My Sweet Lord). Both of them paid lots of
>money for having stolen (knowingly or not, who knows) someone else's
>melody.
>
> > It\ufffds part of the world and I like it and for all you sample
>companies I wish
> > you the best but don\ufffdt count on to much rising business that\ufffds what
>I think
> > anyway and if you don\ufffdt like it I don\ufffdt care!!
>
>No matter what you feel you should at least be aware that you are
>breaking the law. What you choose to do with that knowledge is your
>own business. But I will strongly advice you to clear any lifted
>samples or whatever if you ever publish anything. That's for your own
>sake, mate.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Soren Riis-Vestergaard
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos \ufffdr det enklaste s\ufffdttet att dela ut och skriva ut foton: 
http://photos.msn.se/Support/WorldWide.aspx

Alvaro Villalobos wrote:
  I understand but I´ve heard tracks from Madonna-Busta Rhymes and I know they 
  haven´t payed for all they used that´s the thing I just think it´s very 
  strange that people like they don´t pay even if they really can afford it 
  and I just wonder why??


    No offense, but how do you know this? Do you work for their labels? I would think they would clear all of their samples. Maybe there are exceptions but I wouldn't asume just because there are a lot of samples that they don't get cleared. It doesn't matter anyway, if they didn't clear them and they use them it doesn't make it right. 
   
     Now back on topic..........

   --Roger



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Often times it's not the opinion of the
musicians that matter, but rather the opinion of the record labels and
publishers and whether they feeling like suing for infringement or not.
Citing people who have escaped such law suits does not build a case for
others who may face real danger of being sued. In other words, just because
no one's suing, doesn't meant they won't or wouldn't to someone else. Just
more thoughts on intellectual property... Jer

> From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:33:10 +0100
> To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
> 
> One thing I wonder about is HIP HOP, TECHNO and all the thousands of Reggea
> tracks that has stolen sounds lyrics etc who is going to pay for this????
> 
> I think you are to naive to think that all those people are paying for
> themselvs and there are millions of people like them...
> 
> If I would me Stevie Wonder and someone sampled my tacks and didn´t pay for
> it I wouldn´t mind at all as long as the tracks are good..
> 
> I know that Roy Ayers is at least one of the guys I´ve heard from that he
> feels happy to know that people sample him of.
> 
> And the music industry suck balls so I hope that they will continue to
> sample of big artists and good tracks!!
> 
> Like somebody else said here with Vanilla Ice thay played the same stuff as
> Sly and that´s very common so I can´t imagine a world without stolen melodys
> that´s the most common thing nowadays especially with software sampler midi
> tracks over the net FTP links with sounds etc....
> 
> It´s part of the world and I like it and for all you sample companies I wish
> you the best but don´t count on to much rising business that´s what I think
> anyway and if you don´t like it I don´t care!!
> 
> Anyway thanks for all the good EXS instruments they have keept me from
> buying sample CD´s THANKS!!!
> 
> The best,
> 
> Alvaro Villalobos.
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hämta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt på http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

I'm curious how you are able to verify these accusations as well. I know
Puffy, I'm sorry... I mean P Diddy, pays out the nose for his but makes so
much money in the process at hardly matters. I'd be very surprised if a
major artist to such a major risk unless the other material is owned by the
same label, publisher, etc.

> From: "litepipe" <litepipe@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:19:05 -0500
> To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
> 
> Alvaro Villalobos wrote:
> I understand but I´ve heard tracks from Madonna-Busta Rhymes and I know they
> haven´t payed for all they used that´s the thing I just think it´s very
> strange that people like they don´t pay even if they really can afford it
> and I just wonder why??
> 
> 
> No offense, but how do you know this? Do you work for their labels? I would
> think they would clear all of their samples. Maybe there are exceptions but I
> wouldn't asume just because there are a lot of samples that they don't get
> cleared. It doesn't matter anyway, if they didn't clear them and they use them
> it doesn't make it right.
> 
> Now back on topic..........
> 
> --Roger
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

because most humans take what they can... also it may be cheaper to get sued
than to pay for the rights upfront. Record labels are practical about $ if
nothing else...

teddy

> 
> I understand but I´ve heard tracks from Madonna-Busta Rhymes and I know they
> haven´t payed for all they used that´s the thing I just think it´s very
> strange that people like they don´t pay even if they really can afford it
> and I just wonder why??
> 
> Alvaro Villalobos.

-- 
GO SEE 
http://www.teddybut.com and http://www.mp3.com/teddybut
Kumpelstiltskin Music, Inc./EMI Music Publishing
Burning Beagle Studios, Brooklyn, NY

I do know some people at Virgin and I\ufffdve been DJing for long time and I have 
encountered many samples on my records that I know they haven\ufffdt payed rights 
for and I mean a lot of f****** samples!!!

That\ufffds is also in the HIP HOP industry and I don\ufffdt want to sound as they are 
theifs because I think as long as they steal something and it sounds good I 
don\ufffdt care at all because I\ufffdm not making their samples anyway and when I 
hear a good track I don\ufffdt give a shit who they have sampled if they wouldn\ufffdt 
have been sampling me off course than I really would have been a happy man.

There are also major HIP HOP acts from Sweden that have sampled even bigger 
artists and they haven\ufffdt payed for anything could it be the same with major 
HIP HOP artist from France, England and Germany??

I play house music and at least 60-70 % have samples wich haven\ufffdt been payed 
for!

I think it\ufffds weird if you people think that all artists pay for their 
samples since I\ufffdve seen this for the past 15 years and it\ufffds getting bigger 
for everyday could this have something to do with samplers??

I think so anyway as long as there are people with samplers they will always 
sample of stuff that aren\ufffdt their own off course they sample stuff from 
others that\ufffds what I have seen meaby I\ufffdm the only one playing House, Techno 
and HIP HOP stuff???

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.

Ps. I don\ufffdt know if you people heard of Public Enemy but there are quite a 
few samples there as well. When Lenny Kravitz (Virgin) produced one of 
Madonnas track he sampled of Funky drummer from James Brown, Public Enemy 
said that Madonna had to pay for those samples but Madonna said that their 
track also had the same sample from Funky drummer what happened to James 
Brown and his band I don\ufffdt think they ever payed for those drums and they 
have been sampled of about 1000 times now and not everybody is paying for 
them could this has something to do because of the samples are in sample 
CD\ufffds and everybody has them or what? Ds.



>From: <HELP@...>
>Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:49:42 -0500
>
>I'm curious how you are able to verify these accusations as well. I know
>Puffy, I'm sorry... I mean P Diddy, pays out the nose for his but makes so
>much money in the process at hardly matters. I'd be very surprised if a
>major artist to such a major risk unless the other material is owned by the
>same label, publisher, etc.
>
> > From: "litepipe" <litepipe@...>
> > Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:19:05 -0500
> > To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
> >
> > Alvaro Villalobos wrote:
> > I understand but I\ufffdve heard tracks from Madonna-Busta Rhymes and I know 
>they
> > haven\ufffdt payed for all they used that\ufffds the thing I just think it\ufffds very
> > strange that people like they don\ufffdt pay even if they really can afford 
>it
> > and I just wonder why??
> >
> >
> > No offense, but how do you know this? Do you work for their labels? I 
>would
> > think they would clear all of their samples. Maybe there are exceptions 
>but I
> > wouldn't asume just because there are a lot of samples that they don't 
>get
> > cleared. It doesn't matter anyway, if they didn't clear them and they 
>use them
> > it doesn't make it right.
> >
> > Now back on topic..........
> >
> > --Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Kom med i v\ufffdrldens st\ufffdrsta e-posttj\ufffdnst; MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com/sv

I also think when a major label know something is going to be a hit or if it 
become a hit they pay their rights before getting sue that has aslo 
happened!

Ciao,

Alvaro.


>From: <HELP@...>
>Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:49:42 -0500
>
>I'm curious how you are able to verify these accusations as well. I know
>Puffy, I'm sorry... I mean P Diddy, pays out the nose for his but makes so
>much money in the process at hardly matters. I'd be very surprised if a
>major artist to such a major risk unless the other material is owned by the
>same label, publisher, etc.
>
> > From: "litepipe" <litepipe@...>
> > Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:19:05 -0500
> > To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
> >
> > Alvaro Villalobos wrote:
> > I understand but I\ufffdve heard tracks from Madonna-Busta Rhymes and I know 
>they
> > haven\ufffdt payed for all they used that\ufffds the thing I just think it\ufffds very
> > strange that people like they don\ufffdt pay even if they really can afford 
>it
> > and I just wonder why??
> >
> >
> > No offense, but how do you know this? Do you work for their labels? I 
>would
> > think they would clear all of their samples. Maybe there are exceptions 
>but I
> > wouldn't asume just because there are a lot of samples that they don't 
>get
> > cleared. It doesn't matter anyway, if they didn't clear them and they 
>use them
> > it doesn't make it right.
> >
> > Now back on topic..........
> >
> > --Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
H\ufffdmta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt p\ufffd http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp.

There is copyright on a melodie or a rythme not on a simple sound....
Igor

>
>
>There is copyright on a melodie or a rythme not on a simple sound....
>
You have two kinds of copyrights. One on the "master tape (= recording)" 
and one on melodies etc (= musical stuff).
http://www.wipo.org for full info.


-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Alvaro,

I'd like to shed some light on some of the claims you are making. Even though 
you're DJ'ing and you hear a lot of samples on records doesn't mean that they 
haven't been cleared or that no one is getting caught. That is usually often 
kept private. Things have changed ALOT in the record industry regarding 
samples in the last ten years. There are now many lawyers who are also DJs 
who specialize in Hip-Hop lawsuits.....it is a very lucrative field if you 
are a copyright attorney and you can "trainspot". There are tons of lawsuits, 
and payouts going on all the time over samples....you just don't hear about 
it as much in the news, because most of the time it doesn't actually go to 
court. The parties usually settle out of court. Every label has a staff of 
people that check out the new releases (big and small) to look for samples 
and lifts from their catalog. Sample clearance and licensing is a big 
business. Hip-hop records make a lot of money too, and since there isn't 
usually a big recording cost or a lot of live musicians, most of the 
traditional recording budget now goes into sample clearance. The legal issues 
surrounding sampling have even changed the sound of Hip-Hop...now there are 
less samples and loops used and more programmed beats and synth stuff, which 
is a direct result of artists, producers and labels not wanting to get sued 
or pay all their royalties/recording budget in sample clearance. It has 
actually altered the sound of the music.

That's my experience based on the cases I've been involved in, discussions 
with our copyright attorneys, and working with numerous hip-hop artists and 
producers.

-EP

In a message dated 2/13/02 10:22:21 AM, joeri@... writes:

>>There is copyright on a melodie or a rythme not on a simple sound....

>>
>You have two kinds of copyrights. One on the "master tape (= recording)"
>
>and one on melodies etc (= musical stuff).
>http://www.wipo.org for full info.

That is correct, and where so much of the confusion lies. Every modern 
musician should learn what the difference is IMO, otherwise it will bite you 
at some point if you're serious about your music.

One side note:

Regarding the copyright of a musical work, the law is based primarily on 
melody and lyric. An arrangement can also be copyrighted. However, 
contradictory to this post, a rhythm cannot be copyrighted. This is why 
different records can have the same rhythmic pattern, because it isn't 
possible to protect the musical pattern. Where the confusion comes for most 
people is that they assume that you can then use a sampled loop (which is 
illegal because ANY sound recording is fully protected under the Sound Recor
ding copyright act.) So you can't copyright a groove, but you can copyright a 
recording of that groove. That's why "sound alike" recordings are often done.

The basis for this law is interesting. In the early part of the 20th century, 
Irving Berlin tried to copyright all of the chords, so that noone could use 
his harmony. Luckily for all of us, the judge wisely ruled that harmony and 
rhythm are essential elements of all music, and you can't "own" them. It 
makes a lot of sense if you think about it....you can own your musical 
composition and the recording/duplication rights to it, but not the musical 
elements like the rhythm and the chords.

I've often thought about what the laws would be like if they were all written 
from scratch today, in a musical landscape where melody and lyric are not as 
important as they used to be.

-EP

Well I\ufffdm sorry to say this but I know numerous labels from America not 
paying for samples and that\ufffds are facts since I know some people around 
those labels!

So Mister Persing just because your stuff is legit it doesn\ufffdt mean Bin ladin 
is if you undertsand what I mean!


I also know of at least 10 artists that I know personally they have released 
a lot of stuff very much sampled and filtered and so on and they haven\ufffdt 
payed a penny for that!

Meaby you can track them down even though you meaby haven\ufffdt heard of labels 
such as Relief Records, Guidance Recordings and so on... the list is to 
large for me to right it down and those two are just from America there are 
much more in all over Europe but off course meaby you really think they all 
pay do you really think so Mr Persing!!??

The best,

Alvaro Villalobos.

>From: PersingEP@...
>Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:30:08 EST
>
>Alvaro,
>
>I'd like to shed some light on some of the claims you are making. Even 
>though
>you're DJ'ing and you hear a lot of samples on records doesn't mean that 
>they
>haven't been cleared or that no one is getting caught. That is usually 
>often
>kept private. Things have changed ALOT in the record industry regarding
>samples in the last ten years. There are now many lawyers who are also DJs
>who specialize in Hip-Hop lawsuits.....it is a very lucrative field if you
>are a copyright attorney and you can "trainspot". There are tons of 
>lawsuits,
>and payouts going on all the time over samples....you just don't hear about
>it as much in the news, because most of the time it doesn't actually go to
>court. The parties usually settle out of court. Every label has a staff of
>people that check out the new releases (big and small) to look for samples
>and lifts from their catalog. Sample clearance and licensing is a big
>business. Hip-hop records make a lot of money too, and since there isn't
>usually a big recording cost or a lot of live musicians, most of the
>traditional recording budget now goes into sample clearance. The legal 
>issues
>surrounding sampling have even changed the sound of Hip-Hop...now there are
>less samples and loops used and more programmed beats and synth stuff, 
>which
>is a direct result of artists, producers and labels not wanting to get sued
>or pay all their royalties/recording budget in sample clearance. It has
>actually altered the sound of the music.
>
>That's my experience based on the cases I've been involved in, discussions
>with our copyright attorneys, and working with numerous hip-hop artists and
>producers.
>
>-EP
>




_________________________________________________________________
Kom med i v\ufffdrldens st\ufffdrsta e-posttj\ufffdnst; MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com/sv

Its sounds like you only talk about the major industry and not the 
Underground labels wich are thousands specially from Europe!


>From: PersingEP@...
>Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:30:08 EST
>
>Alvaro,
>
>I'd like to shed some light on some of the claims you are making. Even 
>though
>you're DJ'ing and you hear a lot of samples on records doesn't mean that 
>they
>haven't been cleared or that no one is getting caught. That is usually 
>often
>kept private. Things have changed ALOT in the record industry regarding
>samples in the last ten years. There are now many lawyers who are also DJs
>who specialize in Hip-Hop lawsuits.....it is a very lucrative field if you
>are a copyright attorney and you can "trainspot". There are tons of 
>lawsuits,
>and payouts going on all the time over samples....you just don't hear about
>it as much in the news, because most of the time it doesn't actually go to
>court. The parties usually settle out of court. Every label has a staff of
>people that check out the new releases (big and small) to look for samples
>and lifts from their catalog. Sample clearance and licensing is a big
>business. Hip-hop records make a lot of money too, and since there isn't
>usually a big recording cost or a lot of live musicians, most of the
>traditional recording budget now goes into sample clearance. The legal 
>issues
>surrounding sampling have even changed the sound of Hip-Hop...now there are
>less samples and loops used and more programmed beats and synth stuff, 
>which
>is a direct result of artists, producers and labels not wanting to get sued
>or pay all their royalties/recording budget in sample clearance. It has
>actually altered the sound of the music.
>
>That's my experience based on the cases I've been involved in, discussions
>with our copyright attorneys, and working with numerous hip-hop artists and
>producers.
>
>-EP
>




_________________________________________________________________
H\ufffdmta MSN Explorer kostnadsfritt p\ufffd http://explorer.msn.se/intl.asp

>
>
>Its sounds like you only talk about the major industry and not the 
>Underground labels wich are thousands specially from Europe!
>
The majors is where almost all music sales are.

-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

What is the point of this discussion, Alvaro. It's pretty obvious that some
people pay and some people don't. It doesn't alter the ethics or the law.
Why are we beating a dead horse here. If this subject matter continues, I
will get out of this list. It's getting very, very, very old.

> From: "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:07:03 +0100
> To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
> 
> Well I´m sorry to say this but I know numerous labels from America not
> paying for samples and that´s are facts since I know some people around
> those labels!
> 
> So Mister Persing just because your stuff is legit it doesn´t mean Bin ladin
> is if you undertsand what I mean!
> 
> 
> I also know of at least 10 artists that I know personally they have released
> a lot of stuff very much sampled and filtered and so on and they haven´t
> payed a penny for that!
> 
> Meaby you can track them down even though you meaby haven´t heard of labels
> such as Relief Records, Guidance Recordings and so on... the list is to
> large for me to right it down and those two are just from America there are
> much more in all over Europe but off course meaby you really think they all
> pay do you really think so Mr Persing!!??
> 
> The best,
> 
> Alvaro Villalobos.
> 
>> From: PersingEP@...
>> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>> To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [exs] Re: Copyrights
>> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:30:08 EST
>> 
>> Alvaro,
>> 
>> I'd like to shed some light on some of the claims you are making. Even
>> though
>> you're DJ'ing and you hear a lot of samples on records doesn't mean that
>> they
>> haven't been cleared or that no one is getting caught. That is usually
>> often
>> kept private. Things have changed ALOT in the record industry regarding
>> samples in the last ten years. There are now many lawyers who are also DJs
>> who specialize in Hip-Hop lawsuits.....it is a very lucrative field if you
>> are a copyright attorney and you can "trainspot". There are tons of
>> lawsuits,
>> and payouts going on all the time over samples....you just don't hear about
>> it as much in the news, because most of the time it doesn't actually go to
>> court. The parties usually settle out of court. Every label has a staff of
>> people that check out the new releases (big and small) to look for samples
>> and lifts from their catalog. Sample clearance and licensing is a big
>> business. Hip-hop records make a lot of money too, and since there isn't
>> usually a big recording cost or a lot of live musicians, most of the
>> traditional recording budget now goes into sample clearance. The legal
>> issues
>> surrounding sampling have even changed the sound of Hip-Hop...now there are
>> less samples and loops used and more programmed beats and synth stuff,
>> which
>> is a direct result of artists, producers and labels not wanting to get sued
>> or pay all their royalties/recording budget in sample clearance. It has
>> actually altered the sound of the music.
>> 
>> That's my experience based on the cases I've been involved in, discussions
>> with our copyright attorneys, and working with numerous hip-hop artists and
>> producers.
>> 
>> -EP
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Kom med i världens största e-posttjänst; MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com/sv
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

Hi Alvaro

--- In exs-users@y..., "Alvaro Villalobos" <logicuser2001@h...> wrote:
> Well I´m sorry to say this but I know numerous labels from America 
not 
> paying for samples and that´s are facts since I know some people 
around 
> those labels!
Please let me suggest that this very interesting discussion about 
copyright that has been going on be focused on 1) can we find a 
common understanding on what the law is? and 2) how do we as 
individuals deal with the law?

There have been numerous posts dealing with these two related 
subjects and since I have made my point already I won't repeat it.

Alvaro, it seems to me that you are very focused on what someone 
somewhere out there is doing and not doing in relation to sample 
clearance. I wish that you would focus on what you are doing and not 
doing just as others have chimed in.

Kind regards,

Soren Riis-Vestergaard

I think we all know what is right or wrong.
Intelligent beings can rationalise anything but let me give an example or 2.

1:  I produced and wrote a track for a new artist with a major label. Paid
all the session players etc.
3 months later I¹m in Sydney on a writing session and I need a funk guitar
part for the song I¹m writing/programming. It¹s got a similar but faster
groove and is 2 steps higher. I grab tha data CD from the old session as the
part I want is on the CD. I go through the out-takes of the guitarist,
sample a few odds n sods, cut & paste and voila, funky new guitar part! I
then ring the session player and explain and tell him I¹ll be sending him a
partial session fee for the demo and the remainder if the track is produced
with his parts. Good vibes all round.

2:  I¹d been writing with a major dance artist who¹d had a world-wide hit
with a particular song.
I noticed about 6 months later that the title of this song had turned up,
re-arranged but almost un-recognisable in the chorus of a song I¹d written
which is gonna be a single for an artist. It was clear to me that the words
had been rattling around in my head all that time and had popped out in this
new song. I rang the first artist and her manager and explained the
situation. To their credit, they completely understood and after I mp3¹d a
copy of the new song they said I was an idiot for even worrying about it,
but appreciated the concern.

My point is...why don¹t we do what¹s right, not what we can get away with.
Then the sampling issue becomes a lot clearer.
If someone samples my work and tells me I¹ll feel a whole lot better about
than if I hear it on the radio after the fact.
Peace
Clive Young 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In exs-users@y..., PersingEP@a... wrote:
\\SNIP//
> The legal issues 
> surrounding sampling have even changed the sound of Hip-Hop...now 
there are 
> less samples and loops used and more programmed beats and synth 
stuff...
\\SNIP//

I agree, Eric.
 
I'd like to add that quite a few producers that do HipHop actually 
create full 'sample material' songs (say, a ballad with full band and 
vocals or a classical piece) to later sample it for the HipHop beat
(s). In my case, some of those full 'sample material' songs have 
ended up being used on their own by other interested clients as well.
 
Owning the copyright to both songs simplifies things immensely and 
negates the otherwise necessary clearance monies.
 
Another plus is that one's breadth in composition and songwriting is 
widened as you often need a 'good' song that lies outside of your 
core genres. You have to become adept at creating such songs as they 
must be able to stand nicely on their own (well, at least that is how 
I like it).
 
Given this circle, one might reasonably question the sanity of the 
practice of sampling :-) However, take a listen to well produced 
songs in some of your more sample laden genres (HipHop, Industrial, 
New Jack Swing, etc.). You will find some sounds and textures created 
by samplers that would be near impossible to duplicate with more 
traditional instrumentation (save through sampling its own self). Its 
like refried beans...
 
Hassan Davis
Dinaali Productions
www.dinaali.com

<HELP@...> very eloquently wrote:
> 
> What is the point of this discussion, Alvaro. It's pretty obvious that some
> people pay and some people don't. It doesn't alter the ethics or the law.
> Why are we beating a dead horse here. If this subject matter continues, I
> will get out of this list. It's getting very, very, very old.

while I agree that Alvaro's portion of the discussion is going nowhere fast
(please don't take that personally Alvaro), I was happy to be sharing ideas
on this copyright subject here and I really hope you don't leave the list
because of it, since I value your input in general.

Teddy K
-- 
GO SEE 
http://www.teddybut.com and http://www.mp3.com/teddybut
Kumpelstiltskin Music, Inc./EMI Music Publishing
Burning Beagle Studios, Brooklyn, NY

"Alvaro Villalobos" very eloquently wrote:
> 
> Its sounds like you only talk about the major industry and not the
> Underground labels wich are thousands specially from Europe!

Maybe the underground labels don't make enough $ off their stealing for
anyone to care dude.

Teddy K
-- 
GO SEE 
http://www.teddybut.com and http://www.mp3.com/teddybut
Kumpelstiltskin Music, Inc./EMI Music Publishing
Burning Beagle Studios, Brooklyn, NY

I meant no offense to Alvaro or anyone else. I was comfortable with the
string for some time. It's just, I think we are beating the issue to death.
We've discussed the law. We know the legal standing at this point.
Everything else is opinion, and the various perspectives have been fully
expressed as well. It seems anything further would fruitless. Whether
someone is paying for samples or not does not negate the fact that it's
illegal to do so. Whether one does so is not the issue. People are looking
for a bench mark for legality and ethics. That has been delineated. What you
do with that information is your own business. We could speak endlessly
about our various opinions, but that's not what this forum is about. We are
here to help each other in a practical manner.

PS: I'm glad that my contributions have been helpful some some list members.
I get a lot out of this list as well (currently downloading from the AKAI
pro site at 2.6Kbps on a cable modem --ouch!).

-------------------------
Apple G4 Dual-800Mhz
Mac OS 9.2.2
Logic Audio Platinum 4.8.1
512 MB of RAM (100 MB dedicated to Logic)
RME Hammerfall Multiface
    with analog jumpers set to
    -10dB inside the Multiface
Emagic Unitor8
-------------------------

Jer Olsen
http://MusicBootCamp.com/

"We give musicians the edge!"

> From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@...>
> Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:51:17 -0500
> To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [exs] Re: Copyrights
> 
> <HELP@...> very eloquently wrote:
>> 
>> What is the point of this discussion, Alvaro. It's pretty obvious that some
>> people pay and some people don't. It doesn't alter the ethics or the law.
>> Why are we beating a dead horse here. If this subject matter continues, I
>> will get out of this list. It's getting very, very, very old.
> 
> while I agree that Alvaro's portion of the discussion is going nowhere fast
> (please don't take that personally Alvaro), I was happy to be sharing ideas
> on this copyright subject here and I really hope you don't leave the list
> because of it, since I value your input in general.
> 
> Teddy K
> -- 
> GO SEE 
> http://www.teddybut.com and http://www.mp3.com/teddybut
> Kumpelstiltskin Music, Inc./EMI Music Publishing
> Burning Beagle Studios, Brooklyn, NY
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>