EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hello there,

I was just playing back a song with an EXS24 that had a Sample Instrument
missing.  This happened to turn out sounding very cool.


How do I find out what sound the EXS24 was playing back?  What sound does
Logic pick if it can't load the  "proper" one?



Thanks,

Erland

---
www.mp3.com/erland

Erland wrote:
>I was just playing back a song with an EXS24 that had a Sample Instrument
>missing.  This happened to turn out sounding very cool.

!! Strange - I just get a sine wave!

>How do I find out what sound the EXS24 was playing back?  What sound does
>Logic pick if it can't load the  "proper" one?

Just click on the <Edit> button and you'll see a map of the files 
that are currently mapped.

Regards - Colin

> Default Sound In EXS?
> 
> Erland wrote:
>> I was just playing back a song with an EXS24 that had a Sample Instrument
>> missing.  This happened to turn out sounding very cool.
> 
> !! Strange - I just get a sine wave!
> 
This happened to me a ways back and I now use that sound a lot.
I slowed up the attack a bit and put delay on it and it's quite useful.

tom

>  > Default Sound In EXS?
>>
>>  Erland wrote:
>>>  I was just playing back a song with an EXS24 that had a Sample Instrument
>>>  missing.  This happened to turn out sounding very cool.
>>
>>  !! Strange - I just get a sine wave!
>>
>This happened to me a ways back and I now use that sound a lot.
>I slowed up the attack a bit and put delay on it and it's quite useful.

Thinking about this again....it's probably the EXS ADSR & filter 
section that makes the "default" sound more interesting sometimes. 
Maybe the original poster had some really wild settings loaded?

Regards - Colin

Yeah, ok, I guess it was just a simple sine wave then.  In the context of
the song it fit in really well.  It sounded sort of like an organ.

I didn't have the filter on.  Maybe a tad bit of reverb though.

thanks,

erland
--
mp3.com/erland



on 6/16/02 5:54 PM, exs-users@yahoogroups.com at exs-users@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:12:22 -0400
> From: Tom Hammer <hammeremail@...>
> Subject: RE: Default Sound In EXS?
> 
> 
>> Default Sound In EXS?
>> 
>> Erland wrote:
>>> I was just playing back a song with an EXS24 that had a Sample Instrument
>>> missing.  This happened to turn out sounding very cool.
>> 
>> !! Strange - I just get a sine wave!
>> 
> This happened to me a ways back and I now use that sound a lot.
> I slowed up the attack a bit and put delay on it and it's quite useful.
> 
> tom
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________

> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:35:00 +0200
> From: Colin Shapiro <musos@...>
> Subject: RE: Default Sound In EXS?
> 
>>> Default Sound In EXS?
>>> 
>>> Erland wrote:
>>>> I was just playing back a song with an EXS24 that had a Sample Instrument
>>>> missing.  This happened to turn out sounding very cool.
>>> 
>>> !! Strange - I just get a sine wave!
>>> 
>> This happened to me a ways back and I now use that sound a lot.
>> I slowed up the attack a bit and put delay on it and it's quite useful.
> 
> Thinking about this again....it's probably the EXS ADSR & filter
> section that makes the "default" sound more interesting sometimes.
> Maybe the original poster had some really wild settings loaded?
> 
> Regards - Colin
> 
>

On 6/17/02 4:47 PM, "erland" <musicmaker@...> wrote:

> Yeah, ok, I guess it was just a simple sine wave then.  In the context of
> the song it fit in really well.  It sounded sort of like an organ.
> 
> I didn't have the filter on.  Maybe a tad bit of reverb though.
> 
> thanks,
> 

I know quite a few drum and bass people who are using the EXS sine wave
through various distortion plug ins for their bass sounds...

Malcolm
-----------------
Malcolm Payne Music
NYC
http://www.malcolmpayne.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In exs-users@y..., Malcolm Payne <alt@m...> wrote:

> I know quite a few drum and bass people who are using the EXS sine 
wave
> through various distortion plug ins for their bass sounds...
> 
> Malcolm


I use it a lot. Very interesting with some heavy filtering and a 
synced square mod that modulates it in 3/4. Together with the filter 
envelope some really weird things can be accieved :-)

Best,
Mikael Adle
http://www.mp3.com/MikaelAdle
PS. I use this in the song "Welkome von Seduktion"

Dear folks

I did an Easy Install of LAMP 5 and can see the EXS Help file in the 
Logic folder, but it doesn't appear in the Help menu when an EXS is 
open, as I think it used to in 4.X (although I never read it). Should 
it? If so, how can I lure it from under its stone?  TIA Regards Brian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian wrote:
>I did an Easy Install of LAMP 5 and can see the EXS Help file in the
>Logic folder, but it doesn't appear in the Help menu when an EXS is
>open, as I think it used to in 4.X (although I never read it). Should
>it? If so, how can I lure it from under its stone?

Check this:
There should be a file called <EXS24 Guide> in the same folder as LAMP 5.x
If so, when Logic is running, just go up to the <Help> menu and 
select it there.

By the way, my v5.x install didn't add any new EXS help stuff - I 
dragged the old file in from my v4.x folder.
Are we talking about the same thing? My EXS help runs under the old 
Apple Guide whereas the v5 Logic Help runs under the newer html-based 
help system.

Regards - Colin

I use this sound quite a bit, its just a sinewave. Great for layering 
subbass, sine leads and sfx. There's a real OOOMPH in it in the 
bottom! Since ES1 doesnt have this kind of oscillator directly its a 
great complement.

The only thing that worries me is that at sometime Emagic will change 
the default/missing EXS sound to something else...

----- Original Message -----

From: gislemm

>I use this sound quite a bit, its just a sinewave. Great for layering
>subbass, sine leads and sfx. There's a real OOOMPH in it in the
>bottom! Since ES1 doesnt have this kind of oscillator directly its a
>great complement.

>The only thing that worries me is that at sometime Emagic will change
>the default/missing EXS sound to something else...

Create a sample by bouncing a note playing middle C..  You only need 1 cycle
of the waveform.

Hector.






.

Hector wrote:
> Create a sample by bouncing a note playing middle C..  You only need 1
cycle
> of the waveform.

Well, you better bounce like C0 through C6, a) to reduce CPU usage (which is
noticeable more or less drastically), especially on chords and b) to avoid
aliasing (which is indeed happening once the EXS has to pitch zones a lot).

Regards,
Sascha

On 6/19/02 8:38 AM, "Sascha Franck" <saschafranck@...> wrote:

> Well, you better bounce like C0 through C6, a) to reduce CPU usage (which is
> noticeable more or less drastically), especially on chords and b) to avoid
> aliasing (which is indeed happening once the EXS has to pitch zones a lot).
> 

I¹m sure (without trying) that one of the free synths can be set to generate
a pure sine as well. I found that sometimes the ESX is simply not playing
the sinewave after a re-boot. Another thing which may help ­ can you save
the ESX as a unique patch with no sounds in it? That might make a difference

Malcolm


-----------------
Malcolm Payne Music
NYC
http://www.malcolmpayne.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I\ufffdm sure (without trying) that one of the free synths can be set to
generate
> a pure sine as well.

Defenitely. I also use WaveLabs signal generator for such things every now
and then.

> I found that sometimes the ESX is simply not playing
> the sinewave after a re-boot.

Never happened over here.

> Another thing which may help \ufffd can you save
> the ESX as a unique patch with no sounds in it? That might make a
difference

Sure you can. Don't know whether it makes a difference though.

Anyways, I am currently working on a bunch of small simple patches, only
using more or less basic waveforms. Will post them once they're ready.

Regards,
Sascha

>>Hector wrote:
>> Create a sample by bouncing a note playing middle C..  You only need 1
>>cycle
>> of the waveform.

>Well, you better bounce like C0 through C6, a) to reduce CPU usage (which >is noticeable more or less drastically), especially on chords and b) to >avoid aliasing (which is indeed happening once the EXS has to pitch zones a >lot).

Maybe I wrong, it's a long time since learnt about this,  but I always thought that aliasing happens when the harmonics of a wave pass up and beyond the 20KHz frequency limit set by a 44.1 sample rate.   As a pure sine wave has no harmonics I do not see how aliasing could occur in this case.    Maybe you think the sine in question is not very pure?

regards Hector.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Well, you better bounce like C0 through C6, a) to reduce CPU usage (which >is noticeable more or less drastically), especially on chords and b) to >avoid aliasing (which is indeed happening once the EXS has to pitch zones a >lot).

  Maybe I wrong, it's a long time since learnt about this,  but I always thought that aliasing happens when the harmonics of a wave pass up and beyond the 20KHz frequency limit set by a 44.1 sample rate.   As a pure sine wave has no harmonics I do not see how aliasing could occur in this case.    Maybe you think the sine in question is not very pure?
No sampled wave is "pure", since it has "corners" on it.  When you raise the pitch of a sampled sound, you have to
throw out samples.  When you lower the pitch of a sample, you have to create new samples.  This means there
are decisions to be made about which samples to get rid of or create.  Sample a sine wave at 10kHz and play it
back 7 octaves lower (about 75Hz).  You will probably not be hearing a pure 75Hz tone, you will also hear nasty
"crusty" sounds, which are actually the "corners" of the original sample, expanded out to much bigger "size".
A lot of us love these artifacts and use them all them time in our music.  Nevertheless, it is "incorrect"
behavior.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hector wrote:
> Maybe I wrong, it's a long time since learnt about this,  but I always
thought that aliasing happens when the harmonics of a wave pass up and
beyond the 20KHz frequency limit set by a 44.1 sample rate.   As a pure sine
wave has no harmonics I do not see how aliasing could occur in this case.
Maybe you think the sine in question is not very pure?

Maybe you're right on that. I actually don't remember which waveforms I used
to test with, but I remember having some aliasing on single waveform
patches. Should give it another try.
Anyways, the CPU usage thing is valid - and for that alone it's allways
worth doing keymapped patches if possible.

Cheers,
Sascha

"Hector" <hector@...> wrote:
>>>Hector wrote:
>>> Create a sample by bouncing a note playing middle C..  You only need 1
>>>cycle
>>> of the waveform.
Sasha wrote:
>>Well, you better bounce like C0 through C6, a) to reduce CPU usage (which 
>>is noticeable more or less drastically), especially on chords and b) to 
>>avoid aliasing (which is indeed happening once the EXS has to pitch zones a 
>>lot).
Hector wrote:
>Maybe I wrong, it's a long time since learnt about this,  but I always 
>thought that aliasing happens when the harmonics of a wave pass up and 
>beyond the 20KHz frequency limit set by a 44.1 sample rate.   As a pure sine 
>wave has no harmonics I do not see how aliasing could occur in this case.    

That is the situation which applies when digitally recording analog
waveforms which contain frequencies above the Nyquist Limit (22.05 kHz in
the case of 44.1kHz sampling) -- anything above the limit will 'foldover"
so a 21kHz wave will foldover as a 950Hz wave. This spurious tone is an
alias and the sum of all these tones in a recorded signal is "aliasing noise" .

Sampling is a different matter. To take a set of digital samples
corresponding to one note -- C3 say -- and  spread it all over the keyboard
there are a couple of obvious approaches. First, you could use the same
sample set and just speed up the rate at which you read it -- read it at 4
times the clock speed to play it two octaves up or 1/4 the clockspeed to
transpose it down two octaves -- this is a bit like speeding up and slowing
down a tape recorder. 

However  -- if you want to preserve the same sample rate and audio fidelity
then you need to construct a new set of samples for every trasposed pitch.
Eg -- to go two octaves down you need to interpolate 3 samples (computed
guesses) between every sample in the original note.  To go two octaves up 3
quarters of the original samples need to be removed -- the process is
called decimation.

The quality of the algorithms for this interpolation in critical and all
samplers are not equal. It is this process of interpolation and decimation
that produces waveforms with frequency content not consistent with the
frequency spectrum of the original sample. Subsequent operations on these
waveforms by filters, pitchbend, glide and  FX also have potential to add
aliasing noise to tones.

>Maybe you think the sine in question is not very pure?
Doesn't matter how pure it is if it is going to be put through a process
(intepolation/decimation) which pollutes it.

As an example RGC Audio (Pentagon 1) uses wavetables as sources for
oscillators -- the sine wavetable is one cycle of a sine wave for every
midi note 0 - 127 -- starting with perfect sample sets with no aliasing is
the approach taken here to avoid aliasing in the output. Recording a bit of
C3 and playing it all over the keyboard is going to sound worse than
sampling every note or more practically every octave. 

Regards,
Murray