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2003-06-15 by Steve Pogson
Hi, I'm new to the EXS and I'm looking for a quality piano instrument for a client who wants to record some piano music but is unhappy with the various piano patches I already have. I've seen a sample bosendorfer piano which looks very good but I wonder if anyone has direct experience of this or other piano instruments many thanks Steve Pogson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-06-15 by simon the guy
I am using the Bosendorfer 275 and love it. The samples are great, I think sampled for 20 or 30 seconds each with 4 samples (pedal up) and 4 samples (pedal down) per note so about 800 megs total in samples or so ( I think). I heard the Bosendorfer Imperial as well at the Bardstown.com sight and they had some good demos. So I found it to be a good quality piano for the Ram-challenged (those of us who are limited to 1 gig ram( powerbooks ect)). So I am very happy with the Bosendorfer stuff. simon
On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 11:41 PM, Steve Pogson wrote: > Hi, > I'm new to the EXS and I'm looking for a quality piano instrument for > a client who wants to record some piano music but is unhappy with the > various piano patches I already have. I've seen a sample bosendorfer > piano which looks very good but I wonder if anyone has direct > experience of this or other piano instruments > > many thanks > > Steve Pogson > >
2003-06-16 by Dan Chapman
on 6/15/03 2:41 PM, Steve Pogson at stevepogson@... wrote: > Hi, > I'm new to the EXS and I'm looking for a quality piano instrument for a client > who wants to record some piano music but is unhappy with the various piano > patches I already have. I've seen a sample bosendorfer piano which looks very > good but I wonder if anyone has direct experience of this or other piano > instruments > > many thanks > > Steve Pogson Here's a useful site: http://emusician.com/ar/emusic_aint_grand/index.htm Dan
2003-06-16 by Dan Chapman
on 6/15/03 2:41 PM, Steve Pogson at stevepogson@... wrote: > Hi, > I'm new to the EXS and I'm looking for a quality piano instrument for a client > who wants to record some piano music but is unhappy with the various piano > patches I already have. I've seen a sample bosendorfer piano which looks very > good but I wonder if anyone has direct experience of this or other piano > instruments > > many thanks > > Steve Pogson > Also please check out this comparison site: http://www.gigfiles.com/keyboards-piano-grand-compare.asp Dan
2003-06-16 by prs151
Steve, I have the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand from Bardstown Audio. IMHO it is amazing and the best I've tried. Also, Kip McGinnis is a great guy and very attentive regarding tech support. You should be aware that it's a huge instrument so it helps to have lots of RAM. Best, Marc --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Pogson" <stevepogson@w...> wrote: > Hi, > I'm new to the EXS and I'm looking for a quality piano instrument for a client who wants to record some piano music but is unhappy with the various piano patches I already have. I've seen a sample bosendorfer piano which looks very good but I wonder if anyone has direct experience of this or other piano instruments
> > many thanks > > Steve Pogson > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-06-16 by hicknarvey
I also have the Bardstown Bosendorfer and second everything that Marc says. Fantastic instrument, fantastic support. Another quite astonishing piano collection is the Vintaudio Upright Library. Two incredible uprights (a Steinway and a 1908 Clinton). They both have great character and are a joy to play. Both the Bardstown and the Vintaudio are RAM hungry but blow the East West collection out of the water! I used to use mainly the Steinway D Ped (Akai converted) from the East West Ultimate Pianos but since discovering the above it's now lying pretty dormant... Nick --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "prs151" <marcdilo@h...> wrote: > Steve, > I have the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand from Bardstown Audio. IMHO it > is amazing and the best I've tried. Also, Kip McGinnis is a great > guy and very attentive regarding tech support. > You should be aware that it's a huge instrument so it helps to have
> lots of RAM. > Best, > Marc >
2003-06-16 by Nick Batzdorf
From: Dan Chapman <dan@...> >Also please check out this comparison site: > >http://www.gigfiles.com/keyboards-piano-grand-compare.asp I was wondering what happened to those recordings I made for him! Thanks for the link. For some reason (perhaps a corrupted MP3?) he didn't put up the best recording I sent him: the Kurzweil K250 - from 1984. The K2500's new piano is quite good, and the same samples as the K250's in the K2000, 1000PX, and K2500 (it has the old piano as well) just don't stand up to the K250. Of course, it has problems - only one velocity layer, and not a lot of air (since it's limited to 12k). But it's still incredibly playable. To me, all the sampled examples on that site sound pretty sad next to the one of the real piano - and that real piano recording is awful. While they all have more clarity, the sampled pianos have much rougher dynamics than the real one. Their envelopes are also wrong, possibly due to overzealous use of compression and possibly due to the way they're recorded. And they all have a slightly plastic and brittle sound quality, especially in the midrange. And while the explanation on that site is a little funky, he's right to point out that they all have some phasing problems to one degree or another. Maybe if you could sample every possible combination of notes with the pedal up and down, with many more velocity layers... -- Nick Batzdorf 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434
2003-06-16 by Nick Batzdorf
By the way, I don't mean to insult the efforts of all these developers! The sampled pianos are all very good. It's just that the technology has a ways to go before it matches a real piano in an A/B comparison. -- Nick Batzdorf 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434
2003-07-20 by esiegel2
Hello: I am a pianist who is looking for the best exsII piano sample library. I am grateful for all the responses on this thread. For the Bardstown library, would it be useable on a G4 550 laptop with 768 RAM? What does it mean for overall performance that it is so RAM hungry? I am using the Steinway C from East West and am...underwhelmed. So far, the most playable sampled piano I have used is the resident samples in my ensoniq ZR76, which includes the Coakley Perfect Piano. Hardly perfect, and the samples are much shorter and fewer than some of the libraries, but the integration is better, the velocity curves and sample mapping to velocity work better for me. Thanks. Eric --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@e...> wrote: > By the way, I don't mean to insult the efforts of all these > developers! The sampled pianos are all very good. It's just that the > technology has a ways to go before it matches a real piano in an A/B
> comparison. > -- > > Nick Batzdorf > 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434
2003-07-21 by Andy Abernathy
I had this idea from all I had read that the Bardstown Bosendorfer would be= nearly perfect - maybe my expectations were too high, but it was a disappointment = for me. To me, there is an inconsitency in some notes/velocities that really surpri= sed me - I also realize how hard it must be to get all those velocities perfect. I hav= en't been able to use it on several of my pieces because of a choked sounding note(s) in t= he lower register. I was using it with the 30 day trial of EXS24 - my trial has expi= red and I haven't bought EXS24 because my main reason was to use it with Bardstown. I= need to complain to Bardstown, but w/o EXS24 to play it I've forgotten which not= es were not working for me... The Bardstown Bosendorfer can sound nice on the right tune - it just wasn't= what I was expecting. Of course it sounds nothing like a Steinway or the piano use= d on Holy Grail Piano - something along these lines might have suited me better. Just my 2¢ - your mileage may vary! Andy --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "esiegel2" <esiegel2@y...> wrote:
> Hello: > > I am a pianist who is looking for the best exsII piano sample > library. I am grateful for all the responses on this thread. For > the Bardstown library, would it be useable on a G4 550 laptop with > 768 RAM? What does it mean for overall performance that it is so > RAM hungry? > > I am using the Steinway C from East West and am...underwhelmed. So > far, the most playable sampled piano I have used is the resident > samples in my ensoniq ZR76, which includes the Coakley Perfect > Piano. Hardly perfect, and the samples are much shorter and fewer > than some of the libraries, but the integration is better, the > velocity curves and sample mapping to velocity work better for me. > > Thanks. > > Eric > > --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@e...> > wrote: > > By the way, I don't mean to insult the efforts of all these > > developers! The sampled pianos are all very good. It's just that > the > > technology has a ways to go before it matches a real piano in an > A/B > > comparison. > > -- > > > > Nick Batzdorf > > 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434
2003-07-22 by jenrique gc
hi, I lost track of whom of you wrote it, but someone said was using the exs24 with a Titanium 550 (loaded w/768 MB ram). How does it work? I havent bought the exs24 yet, I'm just *listening* to this list prior to purchase.I'll get a G5 in January but for now i just have a Ti550. Should i get the exs24 now, will it work with my computer? how many instances/voices should i expect? thanx in advance [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2003-07-22 by Nick Batzdorf
(Sorry for the sloppy quoting, but this one has too many droppings to clean up properly.) After my post below, I heard Michiel Post's Grandioso B\ufffdsendorfer demo and bought it. It sounds totally real in a concert or orchestral setting (only, because of the miking technique), the best one I've heard by a long shot. But playing it is different from other sampled pianos, because even the dry version is wet, and it's in a hall - i.e. you're playing a piano that's some distance away! My second favorite sampled piano is still the 19-year-old one in my Kurzweil 250. >I had this idea from all I had read that the Bardstown Bosendorfer would be= > > nearly >perfect - maybe my expectations were too high, but it was a disappointment = > >for me. >To me, there is an inconsitency in some notes/velocities that really surpri= > >sed me - I >also realize how hard it must be to get all those velocities perfect. I hav= > >en't been able >to use it on several of my pieces because of a choked sounding note(s) in t= > >he lower >register. I was using it with the 30 day trial of EXS24 - my trial has expi= > >red and I >haven't bought EXS24 because my main reason was to use it with Bardstown. I= > > need >to complain to Bardstown, but w/o EXS24 to play it I've forgotten which not= > >es were >not working for me... > >The Bardstown Bosendorfer can sound nice on the right tune - it just wasn't= > > what I >was expecting. Of course it sounds nothing like a Steinway or the piano use= > >d on Holy >Grail Piano - something along these lines might have suited me better. > >Just my 2\ufffd - your mileage may vary! >Andy > > >--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "esiegel2" <esiegel2@y...> wrote: >> Hello:\ufffd >> >> I am a pianist who is looking for the best exsII piano sample >> library. I am grateful for all the responses on this thread. For >> the Bardstown library, would it be useable on a G4 550 laptop with >> 768 RAM? What does it mean for overall performance that it is so >> RAM hungry? >> > > I am using the Steinway C from East West and am...underwhelmed. So >> far, the most playable sampled piano I have used is the resident >> samples in my ensoniq ZR76, which includes the Coakley Perfect >> Piano. Hardly perfect, and the samples are much shorter and fewer >> than some of the libraries, but the integration is better, the >> velocity curves and sample mapping to velocity work better for me. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Eric >> >> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Nick Batzdorf <recording@e...> > > wrote: > > > By the way, I don't mean to insult the efforts of all these > > > developers! The sampled pianos are all very good. It's just that > > the > > > technology has a ways to go before it matches a real piano in an > > A/B > > > comparison. > > > -- > > > -- Nick Batzdorf 818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434
2003-07-22 by Mike Auty
You are not alone. I bought it as well and am very disappointed. There are distorted notes in the lower registers as well as clicks in the samples in the right channel around notes F#3, G3 and G#3. I am trying to edit these myself to make it workable anyhow. Seems people running it on giga and kontakt can't hear these problems. -mike On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 09:39 AM, exs-users@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> I had this idea from all I had read that the Bardstown Bosendorfer > would be= > nearly > perfect - maybe my expectations were too high, but it was a > disappointment = > for me. > To me, there is an inconsitency in some notes/velocities that really > surpri= > sed me - I > also realize how hard it must be to get all those velocities perfect. > I hav= > en't been able > to use it on several of my pieces because of a choked sounding note(s) > in t= > he lower > register. I was using it with the 30 day trial of EXS24 - my trial has > expi= > red and I > haven't bought EXS24 because my main reason was to use it with > Bardstown. I= > need > to complain to Bardstown, but w/o EXS24 to play it I've forgotten > which not= > es were > not working for me... > > The Bardstown Bosendorfer can sound nice on the right tune - it just > wasn't= > what I > was expecting. Of course it sounds nothing like a Steinway or the > piano use= > d on Holy > Grail Piano - something along these lines might have suited me better. > > Just my 2¢ - your mileage may vary! > Andy
2003-07-23 by bardstown_audio
Over the last several years many people have become accustomed to playing sampled pianos that have been extensively processed with noise reduction and filters. Sampled digital pianos with all of this processing sound very even, consistent, and in general sound perfect from note to note, but they do NOT sound like a real piano. They have more of the characteristics of a synth where every note sounds even from one end of the keyboard to the other. Many piano recordings have been produced in years past with these processed digital pianos by musicians who have home studio setups with digital keyboards and without having a real piano at their disposal, or in studios where they did not have a real quality piano and were equipped with digital keyboards instead. Practically all sampled pianos that are available, with the exception of the Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial Grand, have been processed with low pass filters and noise reduction. But on the other hand, the pure, natural, and pristine sound of the sample recordings of the Bardstown Bosendorfer did not necessitate any of these destructive processes. With the Bardstown Bosendorfer you have the full natural and unprocessed raw sound of the instrument that was sample recorded because this is the sound that most people want, which perfectly emulates the sound of the real Bosendorfer Imperial Model 290 that was sample recorded. The Bosendorfer Imperial Model 290, which was sample recorded in order to produce the Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial Grand, was professionally adjusted and tuned by one of the best piano technicians in the US immediately before the sample recording process began. The very best professional recording equipment and techniques were used in the sample recording process of this piano. Unlike other sampled pianos that are available, all notes on the Bardstown Bosendorfer were chromatically sample recorded at all velocity levels of pedal up, pedal down, and release note off, which captures the ambient sound of the performance hall in which this Bosendorfer was sample recorded. And also unlike other sampled pianos that are available, all notes on the Bardstown Bosendorfer were individually edited and tweaked by hand one note at a time and without the use of any streamlined batch processes in order to insure the very highest quality. This process took a little over a year to complete. You do have the option of easily applying your own low pass filters if desired. Low pass filter controls are easily accessible in all of the various software samplers, including, EXS24, Giga, Kontakt, and HALion. Low pass filters do make any sampled instrument, including the Bardstown Bosendorfer, sound softer and provide more of a mellow warming sounding instrument. An excessive amount of filters will make any sampled piano take on more of the characteristics of digital pianos that have been produced over the last several years. If you are accustomed to this sound and prefer a processed digital piano sound, you can very easily apply these filters on the Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial Grand in any of the samplers mentioned above in order to achieve this character and sound. For soft classical, soft new age, and soft ballads, a moderate amount of low pass filtering may be desirable in some situations, but there again this is a subjective opinion that will vary from person to person. Recording engineers who record musicians who are playing soft classical, soft new age, and soft ballads on REAL pianos will sometimes apply low pass filtering to the piano tracks in order to produce a sound they are wanting. The Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial Grand provides the full, pure, pristine, and natural sounds of the real Bosendorfer Imperial Model 290, and by having these full, pristine, and natural sounds of the real instrument, the user can very easily apply low pass filtering and EQ to suit their individual taste. Most people, and myself included, prefer the pure natural pristine sound of the Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial Grand without any filtering or EQ processing. With sampled pianos that have been processed, you cannot take away these filtered or equalized sounds in order to have a pristine and unprocessed sound, but you can very easily ad these processing effects if so desired. Usually within a half an hour of playing around with this sampled Bosendorfer Imperial Grand piano, most people are able to determine what works and sounds best for them (whether to filter or not to filter), depending on their various styles of music and playing styles. Kindest regards, Kip McGinnis Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Mike Auty <mailinglist@c...> wrote: > You are not alone. I bought it as well and am very disappointed. > There are distorted notes in the lower registers as well as clicks in > the samples in the right channel around notes F#3, G3 and G#3. I am > trying to edit these myself to make it workable anyhow. Seems people > running it on giga and kontakt can't hear these problems. > > > -mike > > On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 09:39 AM, exs-users@yahoogroups.com > wrote: > > > I had this idea from all I had read that the Bardstown Bosendorfer > > would be= > > nearly > > perfect - maybe my expectations were too high, but it was a > > disappointment = > > for me. > > To me, there is an inconsitency in some notes/velocities that really > > surpri= > > sed me - I > > also realize how hard it must be to get all those velocities perfect. > > I hav= > > en't been able > > to use it on several of my pieces because of a choked sounding note(s) > > in t= > > he lower > > register. I was using it with the 30 day trial of EXS24 - my trial has > > expi= > > red and I > > haven't bought EXS24 because my main reason was to use it with > > Bardstown. I= > > need > > to complain to Bardstown, but w/o EXS24 to play it I've forgotten > > which not= > > es were > > not working for me... > > > > The Bardstown Bosendorfer can sound nice on the right tune - it just > > wasn't= > > what I > > was expecting. Of course it sounds nothing like a Steinway or the > > piano use= > > d on Holy > > Grail Piano - something along these lines might have suited me better.
> > > > Just my 2¢ - your mileage may vary! > > Andy