The Logic Off Topic list

Koolmusic wrote :

>>They are really a unique people.
>And which people is not?

The Japanese feel they are uniquely unique. For example they didn't want 
to import foreign beef in the 80's because Japanese intestines were 
longer or shorter than other peoples from official sources.


>>Afganistan is more like Somalia in my view - war lords, factions, famine,
>>destruction, hatred.
>
>Who from Somalia has flown planes into towers?
>Who from Somalia has been accused of doing so?
>Who from Somalia has been accused of aiding and abetting those who do?

I hate to let the air out of your analogy, but I don't think any Afgans 
actually hijacked the Sept 11 planes at all. The El Quaeda operation is 
primarily Saudi, Egyptian and Algerian. In fact the widow of Egypt's 
assasinted president Sadat said that the assholes who killed her husband 
are the same crew who did the Sept 11 deal. Mohaommed Ata, the lead 
bastard hijacker was Egyptian. (However, it is widely known now that Bin 
Laden spent $3 million to send his fighters into Somalia and may have 
been responsible for the 18 Army rangers who died.)

Afgan is being systemically dismantled now because they provide a base of 
operations for Bin Laden and his terrorism, extortion, and heroin 
rackets. And no one says it directly, but Bush hints at it - the Taliban 
are just complete assholes and desserve to be removed from power in the 
same way they came to power - by military force.

And of course you missed the point entirely. I never said the Somalis 
were or were not terrorists, nor that the did or did not desserve any 
attention. The discussion was about how to rebuild Afganistan later after 
the attacks end. Someone suggested treating them like Japan, and I 
compared the overall chaotic situation to be more like Somalia. 


>You have also kindly given a most apt description -- as far as I can divine 
>-- of a certain nation not too far away from where you sit right this very 
>minute where there are also people dying upon the streets from hunger and 
>from enforced homelessness and from hatred even as I write these words. It 
>is simply that the people who oversee such acts of brutality are given a 
>far more polite description.

What you are talking about? Mexico? South Central LA? Haiti? El Salvador? 
I'm at a loss as to what country you are referring to. I don't see the 
connection. Mexico is a poor country but no one is kicked out thier homes 
- except the 100 Americans who bought luxury beach front homes from a 
Mexican - only to find later that he had not purchased the lots correctly 
- and so after these Americans spent huge sums building beautiful houses 
on these lots in Rosarito, they were summarily kicked off the land they 
paid for with nothing to show for it. Or are you talking about the way 
the Euro settlers treated the native Indians in North America 150-300 
years ago? Please explain your point a little less cryptically.

GA Moore wrote:

>Please explain your point a little less cryptically.

No.
I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually.

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


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GA Moore wrote:

>Please explain your point a little less cryptically.

No.
I have complete confidence in you.
I'm quite sure you'll figure it out eventually.

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


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GA Moore wrote:

>The Japanese feel they are uniquely unique.
I hate to repeat myself ... but ... which peoples on this planet is NOT 
uniquely unique.

>For example they didn't want
>to import foreign beef in the 80's because Japanese intestines were
>longer or shorter than other peoples from official sources.

You do not seem to like the Japanese very much. In spite of what you say. 
And ... I am not trying to be cryptic.

Kool Musick
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>  >You have also kindly given a most apt description -- as far as I can divine
>>-- of a certain nation not too far away from where you sit right this very
>>minute where there are also people dying upon the streets from hunger and
>>from enforced homelessness and from hatred even as I write these words. It
>>is simply that the people who oversee such acts of brutality are given a
>>far more polite description.
>
>What you are talking about? Mexico? South Central LA? Haiti? El Salvador?

Let me guess... the USA ?

Many illegal immigrants in Belgium are homeless, some did indeed die 
of hunger or of cold last winter. And since I heard poverty is far 
worse in the States than here...

>>>minute where there are also people dying upon the streets from hunger and
>>>from enforced homelessness and from hatred even as I write these words. It

>Let me guess... the USA ?
>
>Many illegal immigrants in Belgium are homeless, some did indeed die 
>of hunger or of cold last winter. And since I heard poverty is far 
>worse in the States than here...

Why do you think all the homeless people come to sunny California? When 
you go to San Francisco they take over any public grassy area. 

However, no one is forced to be homeless by hatred or anything else - a 
bunch of Kool bullshit. With all of the welfare, government sponsored 
rehabilitation programs, unemployment benefits, homeless shelters, church 
programs, salvation army, and good ole food stamps there is no reason be 
homeless or hungry. Millions of illegal aliens sneak in to this country 
every year to make money. If people who don't even speak English can make 
money and send some back home, shouldn't a native speaker find something 
productive to do if he chooses to? And most of the homeless I have seen 
are white, maybe some black but very few hispanic or asian. So are you 
saying white people are hated and thrown from their houses? 

Kool, put down the hash pipe and bong and get some grip on reality. 
You're trying too hard to be kool, and only being silly. When you come 
down from your high, try doing some research about how real refugees live 
and what it would be like to have an armed foreign invasion force come 
and kick you out of your house. 

>>For example they didn't want
>>to import foreign beef in the 80's because Japanese intestines were
>>longer or shorter than other peoples from official sources.
>
>You do not seem to like the Japanese very much. In spite of what you say. 

Is it your place to judge others? I was merely repeating a true but funny 
story. There are many of these excuses which come from the Japanese 
themselves. They believe they are different than other people. And I 
believe them. But you don't believe me. Hey, this will be a good one to 
contemplate while smoker reefer with some pals, huh?

>Kool, put down the hash pipe
Never smoked one.

>and bong
No.


>When you come
>down from your high, try doing some research about how real refugees live
>and what it would be like to have an armed foreign invasion force come
>and kick you out of your house.
Been there, done that. Soldiers have marched up to my home and placed me 
under arrest. They imprisoned me and my sisters and my brother and my 
mother and my father. They were foreigners, too. I was also very interested 
in the make and model of their guns. That is my reality.

> > You do not seem to like the Japanese very much. In spite of what you say.
>Is it your place to judge others?
I could swear that my sentence contained the conditional 'seem'.

>Hey, this will be a good one to
>contemplate while smoker reefer with some pals, huh?
As above ... I do not smoke reefers. Never have. What makes you think that 
I either do now or that I ever have?

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


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At 10:00 AM -0400 10/13/01, GAmoore@... wrote:
>  >>For example they didn't want
>>>to import foreign beef in the 80's because Japanese intestines were
>>>longer or shorter than other peoples from official sources.
>>
>>You do not seem to like the Japanese very much. In spite of what you say.
>
>Is it your place to judge others? I was merely repeating a true but funny
>story. There are many of these excuses which come from the Japanese
>themselves.

It's a fact.  Then there was the stiff protectionism against foreign 
skis in 70s - 80s because of the special and unique Japanese snow. 
Things are so unique here that even the physics of ice are different. 
Or the protectionism against foreign rice because it "tastes inferior 
and Japanese people would not want to eat it" which of course makes 
one wonder why they have to protect their market from it if no one 
would want to buy it anyway.

As a sixteen year resident of Tokyo I could spend days on this rant 
but then that would give people the impression that I don't like 
Japanese people and that is not the case.  I do wish they would 
either tell the truth or lie a little better when they are imposing 
tariffs on things they don't want to import though.   I also wish 
they would let more foreign vegetables in because food costs a 
freaking fortune here even when you cook it yourself.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

Dennis Gunn wrote:

>It's a fact.  Then there was the stiff protectionism against foreign
>skis in 70s - 80s because of the special and unique Japanese snow.
Well ... it is true that such things are rather silly. However, I don't 
think one needs to go as far as the unique uniqueness of Japanese to do it. 
Seems to me that simple protectionism and xenophobia and a desire to 
protect Japanese jobs and industry should just about cover it. The rest is 
just a feeble excuse IMO.

>Things are so unique here that even the physics of ice are different.
People always look for good excuses to justify their stupidity. I thought 
that the primary question at issue was whether that kind of absurdity is 
unique to the Japanese. I do not think it is. That's all that I was saying. 
The REASONS may be uniquely Japanese and would surely have to be to work in 
this particular situation, but I just didn't think that the underlying 
motivation was uniquely Japanese.


>As a sixteen year resident of Tokyo I could spend days on this rant
>but then that would give people the impression that I don't like
>Japanese people and that is not the case.
Not at all, Dennis. You have been the source of very many wry and amusing 
stories about your experiences which I have greatly enjoyed, although I 
must confess that I have never before been motivated to say so. Your little 
tales have also always been notable for the fact that they are very similar 
to the kinds of stories that perhaps a Japanese in America might tell of 
the USA -- just wry humour and the little observations of life that make 
life easier. I had never detected any ulterior motive in anything you said 
before. Please do not stop your tales on my account. (Not that I think you 
would). But ... I am quite sincere in saying that I have enjoyed them. With 
all due respect.

>I do wish they would
>either tell the truth
>or lie a little better when they are imposing
>tariffs on things they don't want to import though.
Well ... surely ... governments everywhere find it very hard to undertake 
actions of this kind without looking incredibly stupid. A goodly number of 
the British are looking very stupid right now coming up with all sorts of 
arcane reasons about their 'innate Britishness' in order to have as little 
to do with Europe as possible. The basic underlying motivation is 
protectionism and xenophobia, but the reasons given are often a touch amusing.

>I also wish
>they would let more foreign vegetables in because food costs a
>freaking fortune here even when you cook it yourself.

Yes .... I've heard other people say this before. And, it's often in the 
little things like that that stupidities really show themselves. I remember 
once being told a story by a friend of mine speaking about policies 
instituted his own country shortly after a military coup. The incoming 
soldiers issued a decree that people were not to use toilet paper any more. 
The reason being, of course, that 'real' people, 'real' peasants, did not 
use such a thing and therefore there was no need of it. Went down a storm 
in the embassies and foreign corporations, of course, who had absolutely no 
intention of ever doing without toilet paper!

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


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Huh?????

----- Original Message -----

From: "Kool Musick" <koolmusick@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] Uniquely Unique


> GA Moore wrote:
>
> >Please explain your point a little less cryptically.
>
> No.
> I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually.
>
> Kool Musick
> Keep Musick Kool
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
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> Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

> However, no one is forced to be homeless by hatred or anything else - a
> bunch of Kool bullshit. With all of the welfare, government sponsored
> rehabilitation programs, unemployment benefits, homeless shelters, church
> programs, salvation army, and good ole food stamps there is no reason be
> homeless or hungry. Millions of illegal aliens sneak in to this country

Actually I would disagree with the "there is no reason".  I've known of some
unfortunate folks who slipped through the cracks; welfare is limited and you
have to be savvy to manipulate it.  If you don't know how, you can in fact
end up homeless.  Once homeless, you find out that very few government
programs will help you at all, they mostly require an address.  Yes there
are homeless shelters and all sorts of private charities, but in some areas
they are overwhelmed.  And it is dangerous for a person to travel from
overwhelmed areas to places where they might get help, because they have to
rely on their wits not to get into trouble yet to find food on their
travels.  And if they get someplace or remain tenacious until they can get
consistent help, it's very very difficult to take the next step as it is
quite difficult to get a job.  Without a job it's always a simple quick step
into oblivion.

Add to this that some 60% of the homeless are mentally ill, well that's 60%
that can't do a thing for themselves.

It is not a systematic, deliberate thing except for the unwillingness by
both liberals, who think that institutionalization is cruel (or at least did
in the '70s when they started "liberating" the mentally ill), and
conservatives, who don't want to pay for the mentally ill to be treated
because they see those treatments as ineffectual and doing no good.  I don't
see how it's created by hate.  But it is real and even for quite capable
people who fall into these circumstances sometimes impossible to escape.