The Logic Off Topic list

Well I'm over the shock now and on reflection it doesn't make much
difference in reality does it ?Upgrading my soundcard is a little more
complicated I suppose because I'll have to make sure it's mac\win compatible
and that goes for all the rest of the new purchases I'll make ... mac\win
...logic\cubase\protools et al....  HOWEVER... I'd suggest that anyone using
a mac thinks in terms of general business principles whenever they feel a
smirk coming on .
   1..    two thirds at least of  business turnover will be used to pay the
rent ,wages,stock options for brilliantly performing execs and one third ,if
you are lucky, will be profit .  Listen carefully kiddies now , if you ditch
one third of your customers will you be ditching your profit ? Now I know
nasdaq doesn't think in terms of profit or assets or boring shit like that ,
maybe thats why only a friggin maniac would invest in nasdaq companies , but
really boys and girls if you aint independantly wealthy  you should .
 2..      Once the takeover target is taken over it changes from a highly
desirable jewel in the crown to a LIABILITY , and when the accountants see a
liability they see an opportunity to rape and plunder ... loosely translated
that means 'bye Marcus.. new plans son ... 'bye beta testers .. new broom
folks...bye everybody who might remember where the bodies are buried.. heres
a non disclosure deal you will not refuse .
    So as you can see it gets more complicated as the implications unfold .
Would you invest in a company that throws profits away in the name of some
philosophical postion . If you would I've got a sony vcr I'd like to sell
you .  Survival depends on the biggest market share you can get not the
nicest ,coolest  share and as any telco victim will tell you the slippery
slope starts gently enough but when 32' per second squared takes over look
out boy cos it's out of control and all of a sudden you aint worth shit .
      So my position right now is I'll do the souncard upgrade but I wont be
buying any emagic products for a while and I wont be buying a mac for a
while [my win machine works great I dont need any more at the mo] because
I'm going to wait and see how the shit splatters before I invest money into
a quicksand and I strongly advise everybody else win or mac to do the same
thing ... wait and see .. all those win people who have just upgraded are in
a pretty good position really provided the support stays in place , should
the support disappear tho I can tell you the old Paul Wheeler consumer plan
kicks in .. that is mac or associates would never ever get a penny from me
as long as I live and neither would emagic ... it aint much but it's quick ,
dirty and it's all I've got except for slander and lies .
                                                     Paul

>   1..    two thirds at least of  business turnover will be used to pay the
>rent ,wages,stock options for brilliantly performing execs and one third ,if
>you are lucky, will be profit .  Listen carefully kiddies now , if you ditch
>one third of your customers will you be ditching your profit ? Now I know
>nasdaq doesn't think in terms of profit or assets or boring shit like that ,
>maybe thats why only a friggin maniac would invest in nasdaq companies , but
>really boys and girls if you aint independantly wealthy  you should .

Ok I listened up - and say this: they are not aquiring the asset in 
order to make it profitable, nor do they want it to make profits for 
them.  They are buying it for its intellectual assets in order to 
quickly bring to market a product for OSX.  They are buying 
expertise. Period. Strictly an R n D expense.

If they did not do this - it would take much longer for OSX to be a 
contender in this market and that has Apple worried - rather then 
biting their nails hoping for the killer app to arrive that would 
then rationalize their extensive investment in the OS - they are 
taking a pro-active measure - whether it pays off and maintains their 
traditional share of the creative/multimedia niche is something that 
remains to be seen. Its not a bad gamble.

>  2..      Once the takeover target is taken over it changes from a highly
>desirable jewel in the crown to a LIABILITY , and when the accountants see a
>liability they see an opportunity to rape and plunder ... loosely translated
>that means 'bye Marcus.. new plans son ... 'bye beta testers .. new broom
>folks...bye everybody who might remember where the bodies are buried.. heres
>a non disclosure deal you will not refuse .

I wonder if Marcus will be out of the picture - since he was the 
Emagic programmer who usually attended Apple's WWDC and always was a 
mac guy. More likely it is "bye" to the guys who worked on the 
Windows end.

But you have a point - Apple will have its own idea about who beta's 
what - maybe that means "bye" ference...  but I only guess.

It also means in all likelyhood that things will change for emagicusa 
- Apple has its own strong distribution presence in the US.

>     So as you can see it gets more complicated as the implications unfold .
>Would you invest in a company that throws profits away in the name of some
>philosophical postion . If you would I've got a sony vcr I'd like to sell
>you .  Survival depends on the biggest market share you can get not the
>nicest ,coolest  share and as any telco victim will tell you the slippery
>slope starts gently enough but when 32' per second squared takes over look
>out boy cos it's out of control and all of a sudden you aint worth shit .

You can sell me the sony as long as your price is low enough - and 
providing, of course, that it is digital beta. :-)

>       So my position right now is I'll do the souncard upgrade but I wont be
>buying any emagic products for a while and I wont be buying a mac for a
>while [my win machine works great I dont need any more at the mo] because
>I'm going to wait and see how the shit splatters before I invest money into
>a quicksand and I strongly advise everybody else win or mac to do the same
>thing ... wait and see .. all those win people who have just upgraded are in
>a pretty good position really provided the support stays in place , should
>the support disappear tho I can tell you the old Paul Wheeler consumer plan
>kicks in .. that is mac or associates would never ever get a penny from me
>as long as I live and neither would emagic ... it aint much but it's quick ,
>dirty and it's all I've got except for slander and lies .

I think you will be much happier with Steinberg

Actually if all of LAWdom goes over there it would be interesting to 
sit on their e-list and see if the ex-logic guys are saying "wow this 
is great - why didn't I switch to Cubase sooner?" or will they be 
bitching "this Cubase function is ok but we used to have feature x in 
Logic..."

In either case you will be content with preserving your hardware 
investment and secure in the knowledge that you are using the chosen 
platform of the gods...

I think it goes likes this : 70,000 PC users and 130,000 Mac users.  Probably 
half of the PC users will switch to mac, and half go to cubase. So Emagic has 
135,000 users. However, Emagic is the Mercedes of Sequencers these days.  So 
if you want to be pro, you'll go mac - just as it was a few years ago. So the 
mac sales will increase and the Logic (mac only) sales will increase. Also, 
Emagic can jettison the PC programmers - or use them for other purposes 
within Apple - maybe porting Quicktme 6 to windows or iPod to Windows.

By the way, Apple this exact same thing with "Shake" - pro video software. 
Adios Windows support.

I know the Windows Logic users are mad as hell - but so am I mad as hell as 
many of my favorite apps being squeezed out by Microsoft (Wordperfect, 
Persuasion,etc). However, I still use Excel - becuase its the best software 
for spreadsheets on the mac - despite the fact that I hate Microsoft and 
wouldn't give them a penny if i didn't have to. I think some of the new Apple 
haters will realize that Apple doesn't give a damn whether they continue or 
not - but it might be in the USER'S OWN INTEREST to keep using Logic.

> I think you will be much happier with Steinberg


Thanks for the advice , but like I say it will be a little while before I
make any soft\hard moves at all . Actually I dont have much trouble seeing
the ultimate irony of all the maccers I know saying "oh mate you should use
logic on a mac and me saying Oh no mate I'm happy with protools\win ."
  As far as mac buying logic for expertise only all I can say is accountants
do exist [there are probably some ex arthur anderson looking for a gig as we
speak] and that research and developement are easy cost cutting targets and
should the it world disappear even further up its own bum as it seems to be
doing at the moment then they will have their day in the sun .
  The idea of logic being unavailable to me fills me with no joy , sascha or
ferenc hav ing to  leave  their comfort zone gives me no joy , marcus's
advice becoming irrelevant to ME fills with no joy , altho the upside of
never having to listen to yet more bullshit from people who cant see the
wood for the trees going on with a platform war is mildly warming .
     I will say I love vst's , thanx steinberg , and they do have some new
vox proccesing thing which looks interesting , also I recived a huge email
from the steinberg distribution here in oz on the eve of that horrible first
day about their products [actually I got it three times] so they are on the
ball here at least , I got logic for the audio part not knowing much about
sequencing when i jumped in , so they midi aspect was something I had to put
a lot of time into and then discovered I didn't need too much at all other
than a better understanding of getting my vst's to work better .

                                                        Paul

TazmnianDv@... wrote:

>I think it goes likes this : 70,000 PC users and 130,000 Mac users.  Probably 
>half of the PC users will switch to mac, and half go to cubase. So Emagic has 
>135,000 users.
>
Fuzzy math. :)))

>However, Emagic is the Mercedes of Sequencers these days.  So 
>if you want to be pro, you'll go mac - just as it was a few years ago.
>
That's the strategy of Mac now. They're buying Emagic imo because they 
want to show that Mac is for pro's. If they didn't buy it, they would be 
proven wrong.

>So the 
>mac sales will increase
>
If Emagic makes the difference to Mac sales then I'm very worried about 
the amount of sales Mac has in total.

>Also, 
>Emagic can jettison the PC programmers - or use them for other purposes 
>within Apple - maybe porting Quicktme 6 to windows or iPod to Windows.
>
As a beta tester, I can tell you that I'd rather leave Emagic than be 
used for such purposes. I think that feeling goes for most testers.
And I don't think what you say is possible either. Apple and Emagic are 
not "that" integrated (yet).

>I know the Windows Logic users are mad as hell
>
Obviously. Now we have to spend a huge amount of money or say adios.

> - but so am I mad as hell as 
>many of my favorite apps being squeezed out by Microsoft
>
Of course.

>(Wordperfect, 
>Persuasion,etc). However, I still use Excel - becuase its the best software 
>for spreadsheets on the mac 
>
At least you have it on mac.

>- despite the fact that I hate Microsoft and 
>wouldn't give them a penny if i didn't have to. I think some of the new Apple 
>haters will realize that Apple doesn't give a damn whether they continue or 
>not - but it might be in the USER'S OWN INTEREST to keep using Logic.
>
Exactly!!

-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

--- In logic-ot@y..., Joeri Vankeirsbilck <joeri@b...> wrote:
> TazmnianDv@a... wrote:
> 
> >I think it goes likes this : 70,000 PC users and 130,000 Mac users.
 Probably 
> >half of the PC users will switch to mac, and half go to cubase. So
Emagic has 
> >135,000 users.
> >
> Fuzzy math. :)))
> 
> >However, Emagic is the Mercedes of Sequencers these days.  So 
> >if you want to be pro, you'll go mac - just as it was a few years ago.
> >
> That's the strategy of Mac now. They're buying Emagic imo because they 
> want to show that Mac is for pro's. If they didn't buy it, they
would be 
> proven wrong.
> 

Anyone seen CUBASE SX I belive the sequencer is just like LOGIC?
I agree Logic is the best but using a BIG BANG approach instead of
enticing users over to MAC would have been better. Also multitasking
on PC ie running say more than one program at a time can this be done
on MAC? Magix has a scaled down version of LOGIC maybe they could pick
up the tread in future. Does anyone know if emagic has dropped their
SEQUIOA and SAMPLITUDE line as well for PC which was coming from Magix
or is it just for Logic windows that is no more on PC....trying crying
times.

GRAMJESS

> >So the 
> >mac sales will increase
> >
> If Emagic makes the difference to Mac sales then I'm very worried about 
> the amount of sales Mac has in total.
> 
> >Also, 
> >Emagic can jettison the PC programmers - or use them for other
purposes 
> >within Apple - maybe porting Quicktme 6 to windows or iPod to Windows.
> >
> As a beta tester, I can tell you that I'd rather leave Emagic than be 
> used for such purposes. I think that feeling goes for most testers.
> And I don't think what you say is possible either. Apple and Emagic are 
> not "that" integrated (yet).
> 
> >I know the Windows Logic users are mad as hell
> >
> Obviously. Now we have to spend a huge amount of money or say adios.
> 
> > - but so am I mad as hell as 
> >many of my favorite apps being squeezed out by Microsoft
> >
> Of course.
> 
> >(Wordperfect, 
> >Persuasion,etc). However, I still use Excel - becuase its the best
software 
> >for spreadsheets on the mac 
> >
> At least you have it on mac.
> 
> >- despite the fact that I hate Microsoft and 
> >wouldn't give them a penny if i didn't have to. I think some of the
new Apple 
> >haters will realize that Apple doesn't give a damn whether they
continue or 

> >not - but it might be in the USER'S OWN INTEREST to keep using Logic.
> >
> Exactly!!
> 
> -- 
> Joeri Vankeirsbilck
> joeri@b...
> 
> Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
> List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Joeri
I hope you will switch to mac or dual platform - who else would keep such 
good control of the list? You can't leave logic!

>>135,000 users.
>Fuzzy math. :)))

    Sorry, you caught me! 165,000 projected Mac/Logic users.


>>So the mac sales will increase
>If Emagic makes the difference to Mac sales then I'm very worried about
>the amount of sales Mac has in total.

Well mac is about 5-6% - but of a huge number. Volvo and Jaguar and other 
luxury cars - put together don't have 5% of the auto market. Apple is taking 
back their own turf - music, video, digital art. I hope they have some plans 
for some killer business applications too. 

 
>>Emagic can jettison the PC programmers - or use them for other purposes
>>within Apple - maybe porting Quicktme 6 to windows or iPod to Windows.
>>
>As a beta tester, I can tell you that I'd rather leave Emagic than be 
>used for such purposes. I think that feeling goes for most testers.
>And I don't think what you say is possible either. Apple and Emagic are
>not "that" integrated (yet).

I was referring to Emagic Windows programmers -not beta testers. But there is 
nothing to be ashamed of in developing cutting edge mac stuff ported to 
windows.

Hi,

>I hope you will switch to mac or dual platform - who else would keep such 
>good control of the list? You can't leave logic!
>
I'm the last person to have even thought of not using Logic, but some 
people at Apple might leave me no choice.
I haven't decided yet and I'm not in a hurry, but I've started informing 
myself of the options.
Unfortunately, everything points towards SX so far. I will definitely 
pick up their crossgrade asap to test. Even if I decide to stick with 
Emagic, then I'll need an up-to-date sequencer on PC anyway.
Steinberg's marketing was very clever: instead of trying to find a 
reason to use Cubase SX, they reversed it and now push Emagic to prove 
that they are worth sticking with.

>>>So the mac sales will increase
>>>      
>>>
>>If Emagic makes the difference to Mac sales then I'm very worried about
>>the amount of sales Mac has in total.
>>    
>>
>Well mac is about 5-6% - but of a huge number. Volvo and Jaguar and other 
>luxury cars - put together don't have 5% of the auto market. Apple is taking 
>back their own turf - music, video, digital art. I hope they have some plans 
>for some killer business applications too. 
>
If I got a Mac, then it'd be a Logic-only computer. Right now I can not 
justify that investment. I use my computer for everything (and it's 
perfectly stable).
I hope Apple/Emagic comes up with an offer and I hope that offer will be 
tempting... unfortunately all we got so far is silence. :-(((

Cheers,
Joeri

-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

How easy is it to convert you Logic files to Cubase? I hate to say this, but 
Nuendo is supposed to be really good and is PC only.  

>Anyone seen CUBASE SX I belive the sequencer is just like LOGIC?
>I agree Logic is the best but using a BIG BANG approach instead of
>enticing users over to MAC would have been better. Also multitasking
>on PC ie running say more than one program at a time can this be done
>on MAC? Magix has a scaled down version of LOGIC maybe they could pick
>up the tread in future. Does anyone know if emagic has dropped their
>SEQUIOA and SAMPLITUDE line as well for PC which was coming from Magix
>or is it just for Logic windows that is no more on PC....trying crying
>times.
>
>GRAMJESS

>  >Also,
>>Emagic can jettison the PC programmers - or use them for other purposes
>>within Apple - maybe porting Quicktme 6 to windows or iPod to Windows.
>  >
>As a beta tester, I can tell you that I'd rather leave Emagic than be
>used for such purposes. I think that feeling goes for most testers.
>And I don't think what you say is possible either. Apple and Emagic are
>not "that" integrated (yet).

It occurs to me that not that many Emagic programmers are 
specifically Mac or Windows.

Remember a few years ago, Gerhard announced that they had developed 
some sort of "unified development engine"  which allowed the program 
to be developed on an abstract layer -  some variant of C one would 
guess, and then compiled for ppc and x86 simultaneously.

This was annouced with much fanfare as it meant that delays in 
releasing Windows updates were eliminated. So most of the work is 
done in some other programming environment.  My guess is that  jobs 
are secure for most of the developers.

The real difference is on front line support staff and the beta 
program. In this area things will certainly change.

Apple doesn't need Emagic programming talent to take existing product 
to Windows - they do that already. QT as a media player already 
exists. QT as a content creator - I don't think will happen - Apple 
wants that market firmly located on their own hardware.
As for iPod - nice mp3 player, and a dandy file transfer device. But 
it assumes (even for recharging the battery)  Firewire. Wouldn't make 
sense until Dell, Gateway and every other pc OEM is including this 
facility on every machine. Given Intel's very public resistance to 
Firewire, I don't think this will ever happen. Too bad really, a 
gazillion pc users already have PCI to Firewire cards and are happily 
editing home movies from their DV cams. They don't care that the wire 
was developed by Apple any more than Mac users care that USB was 
developed by Intel. But Intel cares - which is why Firewire on the 
mobo will never happen on pc.

>
>How easy is it to convert you Logic files to Cubase? I hate to say this, but
>Nuendo is supposed to be really good and is PC only.

Nuendo exists also on Mac. I don't know if the Mac version 
significantly differs from pc or not. Ask Steinberg.

Great program for audio.

Not so great for MIDI.