The Logic Off Topic list

I am a long time user of Logic Audio on the mac and I just want to 
rant about how much it SUCKS.

I am so fricken tired of:

having to wait 60 seconds for my song to open

having automation data randomly disappear

having plugin setting randomly disappear

watching the file size of my songs grow over time even when I am 
removing things from them

how i have a 2 processor mac but logic only uses one of them

how i get ASIO errors when the perf meter shows one procesor 
completely free

how the audio system randomly DIES and I have to restart it

how logic regularly hard crashes my machine and I have to hold in the 
power button to reboot, losing all of my work.

how difficult and buggy it is to copy/import/merge environments 
between songs.

logic, emagic and apple all SUCK... too bad no other solution is any 
better.

rant mode over.

I also run Logic on a dual processor Mac and none of these problems affect
my system. If you want help to sort out the misbehaviours of the system you
are using you have to provide a little more information like operating
system, audio interface etc

Best wishes

Per Boysen
-- 
www.boysen.se
www.looproom.com

On 04-03-01 03.12,  "J" <josh@...> wrote:

> I am a long time user of Logic Audio on the mac and I just want to
> rant about how much it SUCKS.
> 
> I am so fricken tired of:
> 
> having to wait 60 seconds for my song to open
> 
> having automation data randomly disappear
> 
> having plugin setting randomly disappear
> 
> watching the file size of my songs grow over time even when I am
> removing things from them
> 
> how i have a 2 processor mac but logic only uses one of them
> 
> how i get ASIO errors when the perf meter shows one procesor
> completely free
> 
> how the audio system randomly DIES and I have to restart it
> 
> how logic regularly hard crashes my machine and I have to hold in the
> power button to reboot, losing all of my work.
> 
> how difficult and buggy it is to copy/import/merge environments
> between songs.
> 
> logic, emagic and apple all SUCK... too bad no other solution is any
> better.
> 
> rant mode over.

Yeah, I don't think Logic is that bad. I have complained many times about the 
clunky interface or awkward way of doing things at times. But it has been 
fairly stable - except for the "save your song" syndrome which comes up randomly. 
It may be that you have some larger system problem. Perhaps your files are 
getting fragmented and taking up more blocks and for that reason appear to be 
getting larger - or perhaps you don't have the preference checked to delete 
trash (in Logic) upon closing the song, so crap accumulates. I agree that the 
songs seem to load slowly. Its rather strange since you can open a photoshop file 
that is about 5 times bigger is less time.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OS: 9.2.2
Interface: MOTU 828
Logic 6.3.1
EXS24mkII
waves plugs 3.2.1

Maybe I should switch to X??? what about panther vs. jaguar???

I hate to seem like an incompetent user. I've got workarounds for 
everything and most of the problem is that I am seriously pushing 
this software to it's limits every day.

One solution I have come up with for the song-switching wait time and 
inter-song-mix-sync issue would be to have all my songs in one "song" 
with tempo changes in-between the songs.

J

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Per Boysen <per@b...> wrote:
> I also run Logic on a dual processor Mac and none of these problems 
affect
> my system. If you want help to sort out the misbehaviours of the 
system you
> are using you have to provide a little more information like 
operating
> system, audio interface etc
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Per Boysen
> -- 
> www.boysen.se
> www.looproom.com
> 
> 
> 
> On 04-03-01 03.12,  "J" <josh@u...> wrote:
> 
> > I am a long time user of Logic Audio on the mac and I just want to
> > rant about how much it SUCKS.
> > 
> > I am so fricken tired of:
> > 
> > having to wait 60 seconds for my song to open
> > 
> > having automation data randomly disappear
> > 
> > having plugin setting randomly disappear
> > 
> > watching the file size of my songs grow over time even when I am
> > removing things from them
> > 
> > how i have a 2 processor mac but logic only uses one of them
> > 
> > how i get ASIO errors when the perf meter shows one procesor
> > completely free
> > 
> > how the audio system randomly DIES and I have to restart it
> > 
> > how logic regularly hard crashes my machine and I have to hold in 
the
> > power button to reboot, losing all of my work.
> > 
> > how difficult and buggy it is to copy/import/merge environments
> > between songs.
> > 
> > logic, emagic and apple all SUCK... too bad no other solution is 
any

> > better.
> > 
> > rant mode over.

Honestly I love Logic.
Henrik Krogh
henrikkrogh@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On a fine day, 01-03-2004, TazmnianDv@... wrote:

>Perhaps your files are getting fragmented and taking up more blocks 
>and for that reason appear to be getting larger - or perhaps you 
>don't have the preference checked to delete trash (in Logic) upon 
>closing the song, so crap accumulates.

How about the undo-buffer/history?  Everything you do is stored in 
the history, which can make files huge if you have set a high 'max 
undo' count.  Try to clear the history and then resave the file 
(under a different name if you want).  You'll notice the file being 
considerably smaller.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

> Maybe I should switch to X??? what about panther vs. jaguar???
> 
> 

I'm still using 9.22 otherwise I lose most of my plugs. Also 9 is faster. And 
regarding X's ability to keep going after an application crash, thats little 
consolation if you are crashing often. Better not to crash Logic at all.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 2:12 Uhr +0000 01.03.2004, J wrote:
>watching the file size of my songs grow over time even when I am
>removing things from them

I found that lot's of cuts and splicing is what makes the song file 
grow bigger and bigger. A producer friend of mine (kind of a 
maniac!!) usually has songs about 7 MB because of this.

Saving your work and then saving the song in a new song with all the 
audio merged and optimized will significantly reduce the file size.

Cheers
Hans

>At 2:12 Uhr +0000 01.03.2004, J wrote:
>>watching the file size of my songs grow over time even when I am
>>removing things from them.

Any chance this could be connected to the undo function? Ya think?

LOL

M

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, TazmnianDv@a... wrote:
[...]
> songs seem to load slowly. Its rather strange since you can open a 
photoshop file 
> that is about 5 times bigger is less time.

apples and oranges, taz. Keep in mind that a Logic song may have any 
number of audio files and regions associated with it, EXS sampler 
instruments have audio files to load, other plugin settings, buffer 
initializations, etc. Your 200k .lso file might be hanging onto 
gigabytes of external media.

Is anybody using the Motu 896 HD ?, I already have high noise levels on one of the channels does anybody have problems with it ?

FELIPE

On 3/2/04 6:18 PM, "rob" <orbitborn@...> wrote:

> --- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, TazmnianDv@a... wrote:
> [...]
>> songs seem to load slowly. Its rather strange since you can open a
> photoshop file 
>> that is about 5 times bigger is less time.

Do you use EXS ? If yes use Exsmanager


Best regards
 
Cyril Blanc
Independent Quantum Leap Symphony orchestra forum (QLSO) for Mac
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qlso/"
A6 Andromeda forum :  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A6_andromeda/"
Petition :  ³Support of the APPLE LaserWriter 300 in MAC OS X²
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Ap1c1/petition.html

ya know I'd love to but OOPS! most of my instruments (thousands) are 
stuck forever in SampleCell format and thus EXSManager is totally 
useless to me.

J

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Cyril Blanc <blanc.cyril@w...> wrote:
> On 3/2/04 6:18 PM, "rob" <orbitborn@y...> wrote:
> 
> > --- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, TazmnianDv@a... wrote:
> > [...]
> >> songs seem to load slowly. Its rather strange since you can open 
a

> > photoshop file 
> >> that is about 5 times bigger is less time.
> 
> Do you use EXS ? If yes use Exsmanager

Why dont you convert them using CDEXTRACT or ...


On 3/4/04 3:41 AM, "J" <josh@...> wrote:

> ya know I'd love to but OOPS! most of my instruments (thousands) are
> stuck forever in SampleCell format and thus EXSManager is totally
> useless to me.
> 
> J
> 
> --- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Cyril Blanc <blanc.cyril@w...> wrote:
>> On 3/2/04 6:18 PM, "rob" <orbitborn@y...> wrote:
>> 
>>> --- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, TazmnianDv@a... wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> songs seem to load slowly. Its rather strange since you can open
> a
>>> photoshop file 
>>>> that is about 5 times bigger is less time.
>> 
>> Do you use EXS ? If yes use Exsmanager
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Thanks in advance.

Best regards
 
Cyril Blanc
Independent Quantum Leap Symphony orchestra forum (QLSO) for Mac
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qlso/"
A6 Andromeda forum :  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A6_andromeda/"
Petition :  ³Support of the APPLE LaserWriter 300 in MAC OS X²
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Ap1c1/petition.html

> Why dont you convert them using CDEXTRACT or ...
> 
DUH cuz with CDXtract you have to double click on each instrument to 
add them to the batch to be converted... I have thousands of 
instruments == 10s of thousands of mouse clicks to convert them

Thanks for trying though!

J

At 17:13 Uhr +0000 05.03.2004, J wrote:
>DUH cuz with CDXtract you have to double click on each instrument to
>add them to the batch to be converted... I have thousands of
>instruments == 10s of thousands of mouse clicks to convert them
>
>Thanks for trying though!

OK, very easy:

- assign key command "next instrument" to a midi note
- make a sequence with that note in it
- turn on cycle witha reasonable length (depending on how complex the 
samplecell instruments are)
- hit play and watch logic convert all you instruments.

Just make sure all the audio files are there.

Run project manager first then the searching will be a little faster

Instead of being such a cynic!

Cheers
Hans

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Hans Hafner <hanshafner@g...> wrote:
> - assign key command "next instrument" to a midi note
> - make a sequence with that note in it
> - turn on cycle witha reasonable length (depending on how complex the 
> samplecell instruments are)
> - hit play and watch logic convert all you instruments.
> Just make sure all the audio files are there.
> Run project manager first then the searching will be a little faster
> Instead of being such a cynic!

Dude, that's cool advice... I'll try it out! Does it skip/iterate 
through subfolders this way??

Thanks!!!

J

On a fine day, 07-03-2004, J wrote:

>--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Hans Hafner <hanshafner@g...> wrote:
>>  - assign key command "next instrument" to a midi note
>>  - make a sequence with that note in it
>>  - turn on cycle witha reasonable length (depending on how complex the
>>  samplecell instruments are)
>>  - hit play and watch logic convert all you instruments.
>>  Just make sure all the audio files are there.
>>  Run project manager first then the searching will be a little faster
>>  Instead of being such a cynic!
>
>Dude, that's cool advice... I'll try it out! Does it skip/iterate
>through subfolders this way??

Yes.  Just make sure that after loading the EXS in an Audio 
Instrument strip, you manually load the very 1st instrument from the 
EXS instrument list.  That way "next instrument" will start there and 
cycle through all available instruments, no matter how they're 
arranged.
Contrary to what Hans writes above, I've found that the length of the 
sequence (i.e. the time between succesive 'next instrument commands') 
isn't relevant.  If the EXS can't keep up, it will simply skip a 
command.  Last time I did this trick, I had a 1-bar sequence, and 
Logic playing at, I think, 120 bpm.
One thing to be aware of is the presence of double samples (i.e. 
identically named, etc).  If you have those, the EXS will halt when 
encountering them and ask you which of the 2 you want to use. 
Annoying if this happens in the fifth instrument, and you went to bed 
after the 1st...  Logic has been running all night, but nothing much 
has happened, since this dialog came up.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote:

> Yes.  Just make sure that after loading the EXS in an Audio 
> Instrument strip, you manually load the very 1st instrument from the 
> EXS instrument list.  That way "next instrument" will start there and 
> cycle through all available instruments, no matter how they're  arranged.
> Contrary to what Hans writes above, I've found that the length of the 
> sequence (i.e. the time between succesive 'next instrument commands') 
> isn't relevant.  If the EXS can't keep up, it will simply skip a 
> command.  Last time I did this trick, I had a 1-bar sequence, and 
> Logic playing at, I think, 120 bpm.
> One thing to be aware of is the presence of double samples (i.e. 
> identically named, etc).  If you have those, the EXS will halt when 
> encountering them and ask you which of the 2 you want to use. 
> Annoying if this happens in the fifth instrument, and you went to bed 
> after the 1st...  Logic has been running all night, but nothing much 
> has happened, since this dialog came up.

So are you saying it will convert the instruments even if it doesn't 
have the normal amount of time that would be required to load the 
instrument??? Why not have 5000 next instrument commands issued in a 
period of 5-10 seconds then?

J

On a fine day, 09-03-2004, J wrote:

>--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote:
>
>>  Yes.  Just make sure that after loading the EXS in an Audio
>>  Instrument strip, you manually load the very 1st instrument from the
>>  EXS instrument list.  That way "next instrument" will start there and
>>  cycle through all available instruments, no matter how they're  arranged.
>>  Contrary to what Hans writes above, I've found that the length of the
>>  sequence (i.e. the time between succesive 'next instrument commands')
>>  isn't relevant.  If the EXS can't keep up, it will simply skip a
>>  command.  Last time I did this trick, I had a 1-bar sequence, and
>>  Logic playing at, I think, 120 bpm.
>>  One thing to be aware of is the presence of double samples (i.e.
>>  identically named, etc).  If you have those, the EXS will halt when
>>  encountering them and ask you which of the 2 you want to use.
>>  Annoying if this happens in the fifth instrument, and you went to bed
>>  after the 1st...  Logic has been running all night, but nothing much
>>  has happened, since this dialog came up.
>
>So are you saying it will convert the instruments even if it doesn't
>have the normal amount of time that would be required to load the
>instrument??? Why not have 5000 next instrument commands issued in a
>period of 5-10 seconds then?

No, it _does_ have to load the instruments.  But if it's busy loading 
an instrument and then receives a 'next instrument' command, it just 
doesn't abort the loading action, but first finishes it before trying 
to load the next instrument.  So what I tried to do was: make the 
interval between successive 'loads' short enough so that small 
instruments would be dealt with as quickly as possible -- no use 
having a 20 second pause if some instruments load in 2 seconds.  And 
if an instrument does take 20 seconds while the commands come in 2 
second intervals, the EXS will simply skip 9 commands, or execute 
them later.

At the end, when you hit 'stop', you'll most likely get an error 
message saying that the EXS wasn't able to process all data in time, 
but that's of no consequence of course.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

OK so I am trying the whole... convert my thousands of SampleCell 
instruments by assigning the "next instrument" command to a midi note 
and then looping a sequence with that note in it.

All works fine when I play the note from my keyboard. The command is 
processed and the next instrument is loaded, but when I loop a 
sequence with that note, no dice! It don't work. What's going on 
here???

Thanks,

Josh

On a fine day, 11-03-2004, J wrote:

>OK so I am trying the whole... convert my thousands of SampleCell
>instruments by assigning the "next instrument" command to a midi note
>and then looping a sequence with that note in it.
>
>All works fine when I play the note from my keyboard. The command is
>processed and the next instrument is loaded, but when I loop a
>sequence with that note, no dice! It don't work. What's going on
>here???

Weird -- should work.  Have you tried a longer loop (more time 
between successive notes)?  Or another command altogether -- like 
using some controller instead of a note for the key command?

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

> Weird -- should work.  Have you tried a longer loop (more time 
> between successive notes)?  Or another command altogether -- like 
> using some controller instead of a note for the key command?


um, any reason why it isn't working? It just "plays" the note as 
usual when it is coming from a sequence, but not when it is coming 
from my controller. weird.

J

On a fine day, 11-03-2004, J wrote:

>  > Weird -- should work.  Have you tried a longer loop (more time
>>  between successive notes)?  Or another command altogether -- like
>  > using some controller instead of a note for the key command?
>
>um, any reason why it isn't working?

No -- like I said: it should work.  Hence my suggestion of using some 
other message instead of a note -- a controller for example.  Just 
give it a try and let us know.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In logic-ot@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote:
> On a fine day, 11-03-2004, J wrote:
> 
> >  > Weird -- should work.  Have you tried a longer loop (more time
> >>  between successive notes)?  Or another command altogether -- 
like
> >  > using some controller instead of a note for the key command?
> >
> >um, any reason why it isn't working?
> 
> No -- like I said: it should work.  Hence my suggestion of using 
some 
> other message instead of a note -- a controller for example.  Just 
> give it a try and let us know.
> 
ok, tried it. program changes, controller values... all the same 
thing. THey work when sent directly from my controller, but not when 
played from a sequence.

Some other facts: mapped midi events won't record or sound when 
played from the controller when midi remote is activated. I assume 
this is normal.

Also, "next instrument" command only works when the EXS plugin window 
is opened.

Any clues??? 

OS9.2.2 LAMP 6.3.2

At 17:57 Uhr +0000 12.03.2004, J wrote:
>ok, tried it. program changes, controller values... all the same
>thing. THey work when sent directly from my controller, but not when
>played from a sequence.

snip

>Any clues???

Yes, I think the EXS-Window has to be open.

Hans

On a fine day, 12-03-2004, J wrote:

>ok, tried it. program changes, controller values... all the same
>thing. THey work when sent directly from my controller, but not when
>played from a sequence.

Duh... I just tried myself, and it indeed doesn't work anymore...?! 
Do we have a genuine bug here or what?  Can anyone else try/confirm? 
I tried various controllers and notes, but none seem to invoke the 
'next instrument' command.

>Some other facts: mapped midi events won't record or sound when
>played from the controller when midi remote is activated. I assume
>this is normal.

Yes, of course.

>Also, "next instrument" command only works when the EXS plugin window
>is opened.

I think that always used to be the case.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/