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Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Ed Schlunder

I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I can program and
debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.

I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area. It is using a
74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between the PC and the
LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers of the 74AC244 chip
(half the chip is left unused). 

Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08 quad 2 input AND gate
chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND gate high so that
it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is cheaper and smaller
than the 74AC244.

The schematic also uses a DTC114 NPN transistor. I don't have any
DTC114 transistors. Would MMBT3904 work okay instead?

Any other tips for a DIY wiggler?

Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by bell_c_d

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I can program and
> debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.
> 
> I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area. It is using a
> 74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between the PC and the
> LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers of the 74AC244 
chip
> (half the chip is left unused). 
> 
> Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08 quad 2 input AND 
gate
> chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND gate high so 
that
> it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is cheaper and smaller
> than the 74AC244.
> 
> The schematic also uses a DTC114 NPN transistor. I don't have any
> DTC114 transistors. Would MMBT3904 work okay instead?
> 
> Any other tips for a DIY wiggler?
>

Unless actually building/debugger a wiggler is your gig, you might 
consider purchasing a cheap clone e.g. http://olimex.com/dev/arm-
jtag.html

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08


> I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I can program and
> debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.
>
> I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area. It is using a
> 74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between the PC and the
> LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers of the 74AC244 chip
> (half the chip is left unused).
>
> Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08 quad 2 input AND gate
> chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND gate high so that
> it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is cheaper and smaller
> than the 74AC244.
>
> The schematic also uses a DTC114 NPN transistor. I don't have any
> DTC114 transistors. Would MMBT3904 work okay instead?
>
> Any other tips for a DIY wiggler?

My version in jtag.zip definitely works!

What you propose should be OK. Don't forget to link pins 8 and 15 on the 
DB25 connector if you are using the Macraigor software.

Leon

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Sean

Leon:

Do you find any instability with your JTAG debugger?  I'm very confused as 
to why this would be instable, and if it is, why hasn't anyone figured out 
why and fixed it?  Considering the cheapest alternatives are several 
hundred dollars more expensive, I'm confused why we don't have a rock solid 
wiggler compatible JTAG debugger developed.

-- Sean

At 02:31 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@...>
>To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:09 PM
>Subject: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08
>
>
> > I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I can program and
> > debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.
> >
> > I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area. It is using a
> > 74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between the PC and the
> > LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers of the 74AC244 chip
> > (half the chip is left unused).
> >
> > Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08 quad 2 input AND gate
> > chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND gate high so that
> > it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is cheaper and smaller
> > than the 74AC244.
> >
> > The schematic also uses a DTC114 NPN transistor. I don't have any
> > DTC114 transistors. Would MMBT3904 work okay instead?
> >
> > Any other tips for a DIY wiggler?
>
>My version in jtag.zip definitely works!
>
>What you propose should be OK. Don't forget to link pins 8 and 15 on the
>DB25 connector if you are using the Macraigor software.
>
>Leon

Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by donhamilton2002

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Sean <embeddedrelated@w...> wrote:
>
> Leon:
> 
> Do you find any instability with your JTAG debugger?  I'm very
confused as 
> to why this would be instable, and if it is, why hasn't anyone
figured out 
> why and fixed it?  Considering the cheapest alternatives are several 
> hundred dollars more expensive, I'm confused why we don't have a
rock solid 
> wiggler compatible JTAG debugger developed.
> 
> -- Sean
> 

History has shown that when people build their own, problems acure.
When those same people buy a working wiggler, problems are solved.

Please, build your own. But if you start have problems, buy a
pre-built one and check your work.

I had built 2 wigglers from scratch. Bought one, then built a third.
Only the last two worked.

I think the problem is the design is _too_ simple. So it looks like it
should always work. 

Good Luck

Let us know if yours works.

hamilton

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Sean" <embeddedrelated@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08


> Leon:
>
> Do you find any instability with your JTAG debugger?  I'm very confused as
> to why this would be instable, and if it is, why hasn't anyone figured out
> why and fixed it?  Considering the cheapest alternatives are several
> hundred dollars more expensive, I'm confused why we don't have a rock 
> solid
> wiggler compatible JTAG debugger developed.

Mine works very well, better than the real Wiggler I've got.

Leon

Re: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Sean

Hamilton:

What did you do differently between the two that you built?

-- Sean


At 03:15 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Sean <embeddedrelated@w...> wrote:
> >
> > Leon:
> >
> > Do you find any instability with your JTAG debugger?  I'm very
>confused as
> > to why this would be instable, and if it is, why hasn't anyone
>figured out
> > why and fixed it?  Considering the cheapest alternatives are several
> > hundred dollars more expensive, I'm confused why we don't have a
>rock solid
> > wiggler compatible JTAG debugger developed.
> >
> > -- Sean
> >
>
>History has shown that when people build their own, problems acure.
>When those same people buy a working wiggler, problems are solved.
>
>Please, build your own. But if you start have problems, buy a
>pre-built one and check your work.
>
>I had built 2 wigglers from scratch. Bought one, then built a third.
>Only the last two worked.
>
>I think the problem is the design is _too_ simple. So it looks like it
>should always work.
>
>Good Luck
>
>Let us know if yours works.
>
>hamilton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Bertrik Sikken

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ed Schlunder wrote:
> I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I can program and
> debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.
> 
> I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area. It is using a
> 74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between the PC and the
> LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers of the 74AC244 chip
> (half the chip is left unused).
> 
> Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08 quad 2 input AND gate
> chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND gate high so that
> it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is cheaper and smaller
> than the 74AC244.
> 
> The schematic also uses a DTC114 NPN transistor. I don't have any
> DTC114 transistors. Would MMBT3904 work okay instead?
> 
> Any other tips for a DIY wiggler?

I just bought an Olimex Wiggler clone, it cost about 24 euros.
It can't make it work very well with OCDRemote (only at the
lowest speed), but it works without any problems with OpenOCD.

Perhaps we can improve upon the existing designs and create
the ultimate low-cost ARM JTAG cable, yet keeping it simple.
Some ideas:
* provide proper current limiting for all lines
* add readback of the RTCK signal (return clock)
* add readback of the targets' VCC (like the Olimex clone does)

Regards,
Bertrik
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Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by donhamilton2002

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Sean <embeddedrelated@w...> wrote:
>
> Hamilton:
> 
> What did you do differently between the two that you built?
> 
> -- Sean
> 
> 
This first one I built was from parts in my junk box.
A scrap vector board and a db-25 connector.

Through it together one late night.
Looked like hell, but its such a simple circuit.

Never worked.

Second one, I built with a little more care.
Some new parts, some scrap parts.

It looked like it worked, and the slowest speed. But it was flakey.
Failed more then it worked. ( Atmel demo board)
So I bought one from sparkfun.com

That one worked fine. So I built another just to see if I lost 
my knack in building things.

The last one seemed to work OK, but still flakey. 
I just gave up and use the pre-built one.

I have been building things for 20 years. This is not new.
Whenever I see someone posting a message that they can not get
a wiggler working, I have to ask "did you build it yourself ?".
Most times its yes, "but its such a simple circuit !!"

go figure.

hamilton

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Tom Walsh

Ed Schlunder wrote:

>I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I can program and
>debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.
>
>I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area. It is using a
>74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between the PC and the
>LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers of the 74AC244 chip
>(half the chip is left unused). 
>
>Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08 quad 2 input AND gate
>chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND gate high so that
>it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is cheaper and smaller
>than the 74AC244.
>
>  
>
However, it may not have the same drive levels (output current).  The 
'244 series is a buffer / driver, typically producting 12ma sink and 4ma 
source.  The '08 is a logic device, not a driver,  you will probably 
only find that it can do +/- 4ma (if you are lucky).

Output impedance would dictate how quickly signals may be driven high / 
low on the JTAG interface.  Too high an impedance == lousy signal edges 
/ ring / overshoot.

TomW


-- 
Tom Walsh - WN3L - Embedded Systems Consultant
http://openhardware.net, http://cyberiansoftware.com
"Windows? No thanks, I have work to do..."
----------------------------------------------------

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Arie de Muynck

From: "Bertrik Sikken" <bertrik@...>
> Perhaps we can improve upon the existing designs and create
> the ultimate low-cost ARM JTAG cable, yet keeping it simple.
> Some ideas:
> * provide proper current limiting for all lines
> * add readback of the RTCK signal (return clock)
> * add readback of the targets' VCC (like the Olimex clone does)

Also:

* use proper level shifting buffers or separate buffers for the LPT port
  side(5V logic) and the target side (target voltage).
* use low-pass filters (RC) + schmidttrigger receivers on the LPT port side.
* series termination resistor on each driven line, to LPT and to target.
* a (jumper selectable) nTRST drive, separate from the nRESET drive.
* optional: a 1mA LED indicator on the target side VCC.

The problems occur not just with building the thing - it's the wiggler
design itself that is a bit flakey, especially the lack of a noise filter
and schmidttrigger receiver on the CLK input at the LPT side. A 100...400
nsec RC filter should do it while still allowing up to 1 MHz clocking (above
LPT port speed levels). If this is not present, long LPT cables or improper
grounding will cause glitches that upset the JTAG state machine.

I fail to see the actual use of the RTCK signal - is this to be tested by SW
on the LPT status bits? Which CPU is so slow that this would make a
difference?

Regards,
Arie de Muijnck

Re: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "donhamilton2002" <hamilton@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:21 PM
Subject: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08


> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Sean <embeddedrelated@w...> wrote:
>>
>> Hamilton:
>> 
>> What did you do differently between the two that you built?
>> 
>> -- Sean
>> 
>> 
> This first one I built was from parts in my junk box.
> A scrap vector board and a db-25 connector.
> 
> Through it together one late night.
> Looked like hell, but its such a simple circuit.
> 
> Never worked.
> 
> Second one, I built with a little more care.
> Some new parts, some scrap parts.
> 
> It looked like it worked, and the slowest speed. But it was flakey.
> Failed more then it worked. ( Atmel demo board)
> So I bought one from sparkfun.com
> 
> That one worked fine. So I built another just to see if I lost 
> my knack in building things.
> 
> The last one seemed to work OK, but still flakey. 
> I just gave up and use the pre-built one.
> 
> I have been building things for 20 years. This is not new.
> Whenever I see someone posting a message that they can not get
> a wiggler working, I have to ask "did you build it yourself ?".
> Most times its yes, "but its such a simple circuit !!"

If my PCB design is used, it should work every time.

Leon

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Tom Walsh" <tom@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08


> Ed Schlunder wrote:
>
>>I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I can program and
>>debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.
>>
>>I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area. It is using a
>>74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between the PC and the
>>LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers of the 74AC244 chip
>>(half the chip is left unused).
>>
>>Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08 quad 2 input AND gate
>>chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND gate high so that
>>it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is cheaper and smaller
>>than the 74AC244.
>>
>>
>>
> However, it may not have the same drive levels (output current).  The
> '244 series is a buffer / driver, typically producting 12ma sink and 4ma
> source.  The '08 is a logic device, not a driver,  you will probably
> only find that it can do +/- 4ma (if you are lucky).
>
> Output impedance would dictate how quickly signals may be driven high /
> low on the JTAG interface.  Too high an impedance == lousy signal edges
> / ring / overshoot.

I think that is probably the case, contrary to what I said earlier. Ground 
bounce due to poor construction techniques may be one reason why some people 
have problems getting it to work reliably.

Leon

Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-16 by derbaier

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@b...> wrote:
>

> 
> I think that is probably the case, contrary to what I said earlier.
Ground 
> bounce due to poor construction techniques may be one reason why
some people 
> have problems getting it to work reliably.
> 
> Leon
>

There is also another problem that can occur, and is VERY difficult to
detect sometimes. Without a Schmidt trigger input, if the input
voltage to a logic device changes too slowly through the transition
region, the output will be metastable or oscillate. It happened to me
one time with a circuit that had a clock speed of just a few hundred
kilohertz, and the logic would not work!  In this case the clock input
was from an analog source that had a relatively slow transition time,
so the clock inside my logic had bursts of 50MHz oscillation on each
clock transition. When you have a scope set to look at a low frequency
signal of a few hundred kilohertz it was really hard to notice the
much higher 50MHz signal in the transistions, but the logic knew!!!!

So you need to be very careful with slew limiting the logic signals
with logic not designed to work with slow transitions.

--Dave

Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-17 by Ed Schlunder

Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and RC low
pass filters (as suggested here):

http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/

I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST. Won't
these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be useful?
My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open source.
Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?

Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually switch by
hand?

What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just trying to
get my first ARM project started.

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Arie de Muynck" <mygroups@x...> wrote:
>
> From: "Bertrik Sikken" <bertrik@z...>
> > Perhaps we can improve upon the existing designs and create
> > the ultimate low-cost ARM JTAG cable, yet keeping it simple.
> > Some ideas:
> > * provide proper current limiting for all lines
> > * add readback of the RTCK signal (return clock)
> > * add readback of the targets' VCC (like the Olimex clone does)
> 
> Also:
> 
> * use proper level shifting buffers or separate buffers for the LPT port
>   side(5V logic) and the target side (target voltage).
> * use low-pass filters (RC) + schmidttrigger receivers on the LPT
port side.
> * series termination resistor on each driven line, to LPT and to target.
> * a (jumper selectable) nTRST drive, separate from the nRESET drive.
> * optional: a 1mA LED indicator on the target side VCC.
> 
> The problems occur not just with building the thing - it's the wiggler
> design itself that is a bit flakey, especially the lack of a noise
filter
> and schmidttrigger receiver on the CLK input at the LPT side. A
100...400
> nsec RC filter should do it while still allowing up to 1 MHz
clocking (above
> LPT port speed levels). If this is not present, long LPT cables or
improper
> grounding will cause glitches that upset the JTAG state machine.
> 
> I fail to see the actual use of the RTCK signal - is this to be
tested by SW
> on the LPT status bits? Which CPU is so slow that this would make a
> difference?

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-17 by delta soft

For 74AC08 you can have "Outputs source/sink 24 mA",
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/74/74AC08.html

Adrian

--- Tom Walsh <tom@...> wrote:

> Ed Schlunder wrote:
> 
> >I'm thinking of building the DIY wiggler so that I
> can program and
> >debug some LPC2103 chips on the cheap.
> >
> >I see the wiggler.txt schematic in the files area.
> It is using a
> >74AC244 chip to do voltage level conversion between
> the PC and the
> >LPC21xx chip. It only seems to use 4 line drivers
> of the 74AC244 chip
> >(half the chip is left unused). 
> >
> >Would there be any problem with using a 74VHC08
> quad 2 input AND gate
> >chip instead? I would just tie one side of each AND
> gate high so that
> >it can be used as 4 line drivers. This chip is
> cheaper and smaller
> >than the 74AC244.
> >
> >  
> >
> However, it may not have the same drive levels
> (output current).  The 
> '244 series is a buffer / driver, typically
> producting 12ma sink and 4ma 
> source.  The '08 is a logic device, not a driver, 
> you will probably 
> only find that it can do +/- 4ma (if you are lucky).
> 
> Output impedance would dictate how quickly signals
> may be driven high / 
> low on the JTAG interface.  Too high an impedance ==
> lousy signal edges 
> / ring / overshoot.
> 
> TomW
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tom Walsh - WN3L - Embedded Systems Consultant
> http://openhardware.net, http://cyberiansoftware.com
> "Windows? No thanks, I have work to do..."
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 


Adrian Valeanu.
SC PROSAFE SRL
J/40/11835/2002 ; CUI 15026939
Aleea Politehnicii nr. 2
Bl. 5A, sc. 1 Ap. 17 Sector 6, BUCHAREST
ROMANIA
Tel/fax +40 (21) 781.38.58

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Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-17 by Sean

Why do you need to use 5V for the LPT side?  Most parts can be powered from 
either 3.3v or 5v and are tolerant to either regardless of the voltage they 
are running at?

-- Sean

At 05:01 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: "Bertrik Sikken" <bertrik@...>
> > Perhaps we can improve upon the existing designs and create
> > the ultimate low-cost ARM JTAG cable, yet keeping it simple.
> > Some ideas:
> > * provide proper current limiting for all lines
> > * add readback of the RTCK signal (return clock)
> > * add readback of the targets' VCC (like the Olimex clone does)
>
>Also:
>
>* use proper level shifting buffers or separate buffers for the LPT port
>   side(5V logic) and the target side (target voltage).
>* use low-pass filters (RC) + schmidttrigger receivers on the LPT port side.
>* series termination resistor on each driven line, to LPT and to target.
>* a (jumper selectable) nTRST drive, separate from the nRESET drive.
>* optional: a 1mA LED indicator on the target side VCC.
>
>The problems occur not just with building the thing - it's the wiggler
>design itself that is a bit flakey, especially the lack of a noise filter
>and schmidttrigger receiver on the CLK input at the LPT side. A 100...400
>nsec RC filter should do it while still allowing up to 1 MHz clocking (above
>LPT port speed levels). If this is not present, long LPT cables or improper
>grounding will cause glitches that upset the JTAG state machine.
>
>I fail to see the actual use of the RTCK signal - is this to be tested by SW
>on the LPT status bits? Which CPU is so slow that this would make a
>difference?
>
>Regards,
>Arie de Muijnck

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-17 by Sean

Just throwing out some additional ideas, as I am in the same boat you are 
(just starting out here):

For the +5v (is this really needed?)  You can try something akin to what 
you can do for a simple RS232 level driver:

http://www.piclist.com/techref/io/serial/ttl-rs232.htm

Basically using some resistors, diodes and caps you can steal power from 
individual lines, gang them together if needed.  You'll need diodes with 
really low level drops however to make this effective.

Alternatively you could try a simple voltage doubler circuit with a pair of 
normal-drop diodes.  3.3 * 2 = 6.6 - 2*0.7 = 5.2V which should work pretty 
well for the current levels required.

The wall brick really isn't necessary, and will be expensive and 
cumbersome.  You could always use something like MAX682/3/4 charge pumps 
(still cheaper than wall brick, or get a few samples for free), or 
alternately something like the
LM4871 audio amp can give a simple 3.3V to 5V conversion:

http://www.edn.com/article/CA240909.html

Or possibly a NJU7261U50 switching regulator (about $1 plus only a few 
external components) for 3.3V to 5V step-up at 250mA.

You may want to take a look at the 74LVC4245A part (CMOS OCTAL BUS 
TRANSCEIVER AND 3.3V TO 5V SHIFTER; but without schmitt), instead of the 
inverters.

As well since there are additional IO pins on the LPT side unused, is there 
anything we can do with this?

Perhaps add in an LED or two to give a visual indication of what is going on?

As well instead of using a 74HC14, how about 74AC08 quad AND-gate?  You can 
drive higher current, and you only need 4 gates anyway.  You won't get your 
5V side logic or schmitt either though (again, is this necessary?)

I know of several places of getting PCBs made fairly cheap, so if we can 
work out something that works well I wouldn't find footing some cash to 
have a pile of PCBs made to sell to the DIY-ers out there.

-- Sean

At 11:54 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
>schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and RC low
>pass filters (as suggested here):
>
><http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/>http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
>
>I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST. Won't
>these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be useful?
>My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open source.
>Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?
>
>Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually switch by
>hand?
>
>What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just trying to
>get my first ARM project started.
>
>--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Arie de Muynck" <mygroups@x...> wrote:
> >
> > From: "Bertrik Sikken" <bertrik@z...>
> > > Perhaps we can improve upon the existing designs and create
> > > the ultimate low-cost ARM JTAG cable, yet keeping it simple.
> > > Some ideas:
> > > * provide proper current limiting for all lines
> > > * add readback of the RTCK signal (return clock)
> > > * add readback of the targets' VCC (like the Olimex clone does)
> >
> > Also:
> >
> > * use proper level shifting buffers or separate buffers for the LPT port
> >   side(5V logic) and the target side (target voltage).
> > * use low-pass filters (RC) + schmidttrigger receivers on the LPT
>port side.
> > * series termination resistor on each driven line, to LPT and to target.
> > * a (jumper selectable) nTRST drive, separate from the nRESET drive.
> > * optional: a 1mA LED indicator on the target side VCC.
> >
> > The problems occur not just with building the thing - it's the wiggler
> > design itself that is a bit flakey, especially the lack of a noise
>filter
> > and schmidttrigger receiver on the CLK input at the LPT side. A
>100...400
> > nsec RC filter should do it while still allowing up to 1 MHz
>clocking (above
> > LPT port speed levels). If this is not present, long LPT cables or
>improper
> > grounding will cause glitches that upset the JTAG state machine.
> >
> > I fail to see the actual use of the RTCK signal - is this to be
>tested by SW
> > on the LPT status bits? Which CPU is so slow that this would make a
> > difference?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
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Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-17 by Stephen Pelc

> From: "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...>

> I think that is probably the case, contrary to what I said
> earlier. Ground bounce due to poor construction techniques may be
> one reason why some people have problems getting it to work
> reliably.

Some PC printer ports generate fast (<10ns) spikes of up to 1 
volt amplitude on some pins. They can be very difficult to 
remove, and will often trigger buffers that have TTL threshold 
levels. Most printer ports now run at about 3v and if the device 
is powered through the printer port, it is probably operating 
way outside its datasheet specs.

Stephen

> 
> Leon 
> 


--
Stephen Pelc, stephen@...
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 23 80 631441, fax: +44 23 80 339691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-17 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Stephen Pelc" <stephen@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:55 AM
Subject: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08


>> From: "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...>
> 
>> I think that is probably the case, contrary to what I said
>> earlier. Ground bounce due to poor construction techniques may be
>> one reason why some people have problems getting it to work
>> reliably.
> 
> Some PC printer ports generate fast (<10ns) spikes of up to 1 
> volt amplitude on some pins. They can be very difficult to 
> remove, and will often trigger buffers that have TTL threshold 
> levels. Most printer ports now run at about 3v and if the device 
> is powered through the printer port, it is probably operating 
> way outside its datasheet specs.

Mine is powered by the target system.


Leon

Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-17 by derbaier

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
> schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and RC low
> pass filters (as suggested here):
> 
> http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> 
> I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST. Won't
> these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be useful?
> My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open source.
> Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?
> 
> Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually switch by
> hand?
> 
> What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just trying to
> get my first ARM project started.
> 

Ed, your use of 'HC14 parts is exactly the same as ARM did in their
Application Note 31.  IMHO, I think that you will find the RC time
constant of your filters to be much too long!  With such large
resistors, the input capacitance of the of the Schmitt triggers will
probably be plenty of low pass filtering!  Also, if you want to save a
few parts, you can replace the transistor inverter and it's assocoated
base resistors with one of your left over 'HC14s with a series diode
on it's output to convert it to an equivalent of an open drain output.

A1. The signal connections on the PC side are fixed by the closed
source Macraigor software, so added enhancements to the hardeware will
not have Macraigor software support. In any case, the Wiggler clock is
probably much too slow for RTCK to be very useful unless the target
ARM is being clocked at a much slower than normal speed. RTCK has been
VERY useful for very high speed JTAG debuggers like TRACE32.

A2. The nTRST signal is the JTAG TAP controller reset. The other reset
signal is for the rest of the hardware. In other words, ARM intended
for them to be separately resetable, as they explain in section 12.3
of Application Note 31.

Regards,
-- Dave

Re: [lpc2000] Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC08

2006-01-17 by Bertrik Sikken

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Arie de Muynck wrote:
> From: "Bertrik Sikken" <bertrik@...>
>> Perhaps we can improve upon the existing designs and create
>> the ultimate low-cost ARM JTAG cable, yet keeping it simple.
>> Some ideas:
>> * provide proper current limiting for all lines
>> * add readback of the RTCK signal (return clock)
>> * add readback of the targets' VCC (like the Olimex clone does)
> 
> Also:
> 
> * use proper level shifting buffers or separate buffers for the LPT port
>   side(5V logic) and the target side (target voltage).
> * use low-pass filters (RC) + schmidttrigger receivers on the LPT port side.
> * series termination resistor on each driven line, to LPT and to target.
> * a (jumper selectable) nTRST drive, separate from the nRESET drive.
> * optional: a 1mA LED indicator on the target side VCC.
> 
> The problems occur not just with building the thing - it's the wiggler
> design itself that is a bit flakey, especially the lack of a noise filter
> and schmidttrigger receiver on the CLK input at the LPT side. A 100...400
> nsec RC filter should do it while still allowing up to 1 MHz clocking (above
> LPT port speed levels). If this is not present, long LPT cables or improper
> grounding will cause glitches that upset the JTAG state machine.
> 
> I fail to see the actual use of the RTCK signal - is this to be tested by SW
> on the LPT status bits? Which CPU is so slow that this would make a
> difference?

Well, if there are spare pins on the parallel port, unconnected pins
on the JTAG connector and unused buffers in the line driver, then
why _not_ just connect them?

We could use the RTCK pin to check if JTAG is echoing TCK properly
or not. Or it could be used to check if RTCK is indeed pulled-down
during reset (required for the LPC2148 for example).
I don't know if the RTCK can in practice be used to actually check
synchronisation with TCK, or how slow a CPU needs to be for that.

Ofcourse, if the goal is just to build an exact wiggler clone,
there's no need for it.

Regards,
Bertrik

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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Hm0dcHU63mgs6/cibCJBQQ0=
=ZGMA
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Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-20 by Ed Schlunder

I've been doing some more research on adding the nTRST signal to the
DIY wiggler. 

http://www.macraigor.com/downloads/pinouts.pdf
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=799377&group_id=52603&atid=469852

According to the above links, it looks like the genuine wiggler
actually already has support for driving the nTRST JTAG signal from
the parallel port's DATA4 pin. 

The existing DIY wiggler clone schematics have no connection of DATA4
to nTRST like the real wiggler appearantly has. Could this be why DIY
wiggler clones flake out on people? 

Here's the relevant section of ARM Application Note 31
(http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DAI0031C_using_eice.pdf):

"nRESET is used to reset the processor core and put it into a known
state, while nTRST is used to reset the TAP controller and the
EmbeddedICE macrocell, including the registers in the
breakpoint/watchpoint units. Both these resets must be applied before
the device will function correctly."

So, without any circuitry to drive nTRST, the TAP controller could end
up in an unusable state where the host can not communicate with the
JTAG port. Doing a nRESET, which is all the DIY wiggler has control
over, would reset the processor core but never reset the TAP
controller used for JTAG debugging.

I don't have a real wiggler, but given that the Macraigor pinouts PDF
file shows the nTRST pin as being type "i" instead of type "oc" like
the nRESET pin, I'm guessing that the nTRST signal should be connected
to the DATA4 pin using a line driver instead of an inverting open
collector transistor circuit as used for the nRESET signal. 

I've updated my schematic diagram to include the proposed change for TRST:

http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "derbaier" <dershu@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
> > schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and RC low
> > pass filters (as suggested here):
> > 
> > http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> > 
> > I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST. Won't
> > these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be useful?
> > My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open source.
> > Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?
> > 
> > Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually switch by
> > hand?
> > 
> > What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just trying to
> > get my first ARM project started.
> > 
> 
> Ed, your use of 'HC14 parts is exactly the same as ARM did in their
> Application Note 31.  IMHO, I think that you will find the RC time
> constant of your filters to be much too long!  With such large
> resistors, the input capacitance of the of the Schmitt triggers will
> probably be plenty of low pass filtering!  Also, if you want to save a
> few parts, you can replace the transistor inverter and it's assocoated
> base resistors with one of your left over 'HC14s with a series diode
> on it's output to convert it to an equivalent of an open drain output.
> 
> A1. The signal connections on the PC side are fixed by the closed
> source Macraigor software, so added enhancements to the hardeware will
> not have Macraigor software support. In any case, the Wiggler clock is
> probably much too slow for RTCK to be very useful unless the target
> ARM is being clocked at a much slower than normal speed. RTCK has been
> VERY useful for very high speed JTAG debuggers like TRACE32.
> 
> A2. The nTRST signal is the JTAG TAP controller reset. The other reset
> signal is for the rest of the hardware. In other words, ARM intended
> for them to be separately resetable, as they explain in section 12.3
> of Application Note 31.

RE: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-20 by Soentgerath, Guido

Hello Ed,
just one question:
why do you connect pin 2 of the jtag connector with VDD ?
 
Thanks,
Guido

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ed Schlunder
Sent: Freitag, 20. Januar 2006 09:28
To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14


I've been doing some more research on adding the nTRST signal to the
DIY wiggler. 

http://www.macraigor.com/downloads/pinouts.pdf
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=799377&group_id
=52603&atid=469852

According to the above links, it looks like the genuine wiggler
actually already has support for driving the nTRST JTAG signal from
the parallel port's DATA4 pin. 

The existing DIY wiggler clone schematics have no connection of DATA4
to nTRST like the real wiggler appearantly has. Could this be why DIY
wiggler clones flake out on people? 

Here's the relevant section of ARM Application Note 31
(http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DAI0031C_using_eice.pdf):

"nRESET is used to reset the processor core and put it into a known
state, while nTRST is used to reset the TAP controller and the
EmbeddedICE macrocell, including the registers in the
breakpoint/watchpoint units. Both these resets must be applied before
the device will function correctly."

So, without any circuitry to drive nTRST, the TAP controller could end
up in an unusable state where the host can not communicate with the
JTAG port. Doing a nRESET, which is all the DIY wiggler has control
over, would reset the processor core but never reset the TAP
controller used for JTAG debugging.

I don't have a real wiggler, but given that the Macraigor pinouts PDF
file shows the nTRST pin as being type "i" instead of type "oc" like
the nRESET pin, I'm guessing that the nTRST signal should be connected
to the DATA4 pin using a line driver instead of an inverting open
collector transistor circuit as used for the nRESET signal. 

I've updated my schematic diagram to include the proposed change for
TRST:

http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "derbaier" <dershu@s...> wrote:
>
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
> > schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and RC low
> > pass filters (as suggested here):
> > 
> > http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> > 
> > I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST.
Won't
> > these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be
useful?
> > My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open
source.
> > Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?
> > 
> > Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually switch
by
> > hand?
> > 
> > What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just trying to
> > get my first ARM project started.
> > 
> 
> Ed, your use of 'HC14 parts is exactly the same as ARM did in their
> Application Note 31.  IMHO, I think that you will find the RC time
> constant of your filters to be much too long!  With such large
> resistors, the input capacitance of the of the Schmitt triggers will
> probably be plenty of low pass filtering!  Also, if you want to save a
> few parts, you can replace the transistor inverter and it's assocoated
> base resistors with one of your left over 'HC14s with a series diode
> on it's output to convert it to an equivalent of an open drain output.
> 
> A1. The signal connections on the PC side are fixed by the closed
> source Macraigor software, so added enhancements to the hardeware will
> not have Macraigor software support. In any case, the Wiggler clock is
> probably much too slow for RTCK to be very useful unless the target
> ARM is being clocked at a much slower than normal speed. RTCK has been
> VERY useful for very high speed JTAG debuggers like TRACE32.
> 
> A2. The nTRST signal is the JTAG TAP controller reset. The other reset
> signal is for the rest of the hardware. In other words, ARM intended
> for them to be separately resetable, as they explain in section 12.3
> of Application Note 31.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-20 by Soentgerath, Guido

Hello Ed,
just one question:
why did you connect pin 2 of the jtag connector with VDD ?
 
Thanks,
Guido

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ed Schlunder
Sent: Freitag, 20. Januar 2006 09:28
To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14


I've been doing some more research on adding the nTRST signal to the
DIY wiggler. 

http://www.macraigor.com/downloads/pinouts.pdf
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=799377&group_id
=52603&atid=469852

According to the above links, it looks like the genuine wiggler
actually already has support for driving the nTRST JTAG signal from
the parallel port's DATA4 pin. 

The existing DIY wiggler clone schematics have no connection of DATA4
to nTRST like the real wiggler appearantly has. Could this be why DIY
wiggler clones flake out on people? 

Here's the relevant section of ARM Application Note 31
(http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DAI0031C_using_eice.pdf):

"nRESET is used to reset the processor core and put it into a known
state, while nTRST is used to reset the TAP controller and the
EmbeddedICE macrocell, including the registers in the
breakpoint/watchpoint units. Both these resets must be applied before
the device will function correctly."

So, without any circuitry to drive nTRST, the TAP controller could end
up in an unusable state where the host can not communicate with the
JTAG port. Doing a nRESET, which is all the DIY wiggler has control
over, would reset the processor core but never reset the TAP
controller used for JTAG debugging.

I don't have a real wiggler, but given that the Macraigor pinouts PDF
file shows the nTRST pin as being type "i" instead of type "oc" like
the nRESET pin, I'm guessing that the nTRST signal should be connected
to the DATA4 pin using a line driver instead of an inverting open
collector transistor circuit as used for the nRESET signal. 

I've updated my schematic diagram to include the proposed change for
TRST:

http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "derbaier" <dershu@s...> wrote:
>
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
> > schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and RC low
> > pass filters (as suggested here):
> > 
> > http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> > 
> > I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST.
Won't
> > these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be
useful?
> > My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open
source.
> > Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?
> > 
> > Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually switch
by
> > hand?
> > 
> > What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just trying to
> > get my first ARM project started.
> > 
> 
> Ed, your use of 'HC14 parts is exactly the same as ARM did in their
> Application Note 31.  IMHO, I think that you will find the RC time
> constant of your filters to be much too long!  With such large
> resistors, the input capacitance of the of the Schmitt triggers will
> probably be plenty of low pass filtering!  Also, if you want to save a
> few parts, you can replace the transistor inverter and it's assocoated
> base resistors with one of your left over 'HC14s with a series diode
> on it's output to convert it to an equivalent of an open drain output.
> 
> A1. The signal connections on the PC side are fixed by the closed
> source Macraigor software, so added enhancements to the hardeware will
> not have Macraigor software support. In any case, the Wiggler clock is
> probably much too slow for RTCK to be very useful unless the target
> ARM is being clocked at a much slower than normal speed. RTCK has been
> VERY useful for very high speed JTAG debuggers like TRACE32.
> 
> A2. The nTRST signal is the JTAG TAP controller reset. The other reset
> signal is for the rest of the hardware. In other words, ARM intended
> for them to be separately resetable, as they explain in section 12.3
> of Application Note 31.





________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 


	
*	 Visit your group "lpc2000
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________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-20 by Ed Schlunder

That's what everyone else seems to do... The original wiggler clone
schematic had it that way, the Olimex development boards seem to have
both pins 1&2 tied to target VDD, etc.

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Soentgerath, Guido"
<Guido.Soentgerath@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> just one question:
> why do you connect pin 2 of the jtag connector with VDD ?
> 
> From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Ed Schlunder
> Sent: Freitag, 20. Januar 2006 09:28
> To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14
> 
> 
> I've been doing some more research on adding the nTRST signal to the
> DIY wiggler. 
> 
> http://www.macraigor.com/downloads/pinouts.pdf
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=799377&group_id
> =52603&atid=469852
> 
> According to the above links, it looks like the genuine wiggler
> actually already has support for driving the nTRST JTAG signal from
> the parallel port's DATA4 pin. 
> 
> The existing DIY wiggler clone schematics have no connection of DATA4
> to nTRST like the real wiggler appearantly has. Could this be why DIY
> wiggler clones flake out on people? 
> 
> Here's the relevant section of ARM Application Note 31
> (http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DAI0031C_using_eice.pdf):
> 
> "nRESET is used to reset the processor core and put it into a known
> state, while nTRST is used to reset the TAP controller and the
> EmbeddedICE macrocell, including the registers in the
> breakpoint/watchpoint units. Both these resets must be applied before
> the device will function correctly."
> 
> So, without any circuitry to drive nTRST, the TAP controller could end
> up in an unusable state where the host can not communicate with the
> JTAG port. Doing a nRESET, which is all the DIY wiggler has control
> over, would reset the processor core but never reset the TAP
> controller used for JTAG debugging.
> 
> I don't have a real wiggler, but given that the Macraigor pinouts PDF
> file shows the nTRST pin as being type "i" instead of type "oc" like
> the nRESET pin, I'm guessing that the nTRST signal should be connected
> to the DATA4 pin using a line driver instead of an inverting open
> collector transistor circuit as used for the nRESET signal. 
> 
> I've updated my schematic diagram to include the proposed change for
> TRST:
> 
> http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> 
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "derbaier" <dershu@s...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
> > > schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and RC low
> > > pass filters (as suggested here):
> > > 
> > > http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST.
> Won't
> > > these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be
> useful?
> > > My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open
> source.
> > > Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?
> > > 
> > > Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually switch
> by
> > > hand?
> > > 
> > > What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just trying to
> > > get my first ARM project started.
> > > 
> > 
> > Ed, your use of 'HC14 parts is exactly the same as ARM did in their
> > Application Note 31.  IMHO, I think that you will find the RC time
> > constant of your filters to be much too long!  With such large
> > resistors, the input capacitance of the of the Schmitt triggers will
> > probably be plenty of low pass filtering!  Also, if you want to save a
> > few parts, you can replace the transistor inverter and it's assocoated
> > base resistors with one of your left over 'HC14s with a series diode
> > on it's output to convert it to an equivalent of an open drain output.
> > 
> > A1. The signal connections on the PC side are fixed by the closed
> > source Macraigor software, so added enhancements to the hardeware will
> > not have Macraigor software support. In any case, the Wiggler clock is
> > probably much too slow for RTCK to be very useful unless the target
> > ARM is being clocked at a much slower than normal speed. RTCK has been
> > VERY useful for very high speed JTAG debuggers like TRACE32.
> > 
> > A2. The nTRST signal is the JTAG TAP controller reset. The other reset
> > signal is for the rest of the hardware. In other words, ARM intended
> > for them to be separately resetable, as they explain in section 12.3
> > of Application Note 31.

Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-20 by ntfreak2000

The TSRT pin is optional, the jtag cell reset can be obtained by a TCK
sequence. Anyway most of the manufactursr eg, philips. ST reset this
when the SRST pin is asserted.

This is what causes the problem of setting a hardware breakpoint at 0
and doing a hard reset - does not work for a lot of devices.

For some reason ARM9 devices very rarely reset the cell when SRST is
asserted.

TRST would normally be pulled up to enable debugging.

Regards
Spen

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
>
> That's what everyone else seems to do... The original wiggler clone
> schematic had it that way, the Olimex development boards seem to have
> both pins 1&2 tied to target VDD, etc.
> 
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Soentgerath, Guido"
> <Guido.Soentgerath@s...> wrote:
> 
> > just one question:
> > why do you connect pin 2 of the jtag connector with VDD ?
> > 
> > From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> > Of Ed Schlunder
> > Sent: Freitag, 20. Januar 2006 09:28
> > To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14
> > 
> > 
> > I've been doing some more research on adding the nTRST signal to the
> > DIY wiggler. 
> > 
> > http://www.macraigor.com/downloads/pinouts.pdf
> >
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=799377&group_id
> > =52603&atid=469852
> > 
> > According to the above links, it looks like the genuine wiggler
> > actually already has support for driving the nTRST JTAG signal from
> > the parallel port's DATA4 pin. 
> > 
> > The existing DIY wiggler clone schematics have no connection of DATA4
> > to nTRST like the real wiggler appearantly has. Could this be why DIY
> > wiggler clones flake out on people? 
> > 
> > Here's the relevant section of ARM Application Note 31
> > (http://www.arm.com/pdfs/DAI0031C_using_eice.pdf):
> > 
> > "nRESET is used to reset the processor core and put it into a known
> > state, while nTRST is used to reset the TAP controller and the
> > EmbeddedICE macrocell, including the registers in the
> > breakpoint/watchpoint units. Both these resets must be applied before
> > the device will function correctly."
> > 
> > So, without any circuitry to drive nTRST, the TAP controller could end
> > up in an unusable state where the host can not communicate with the
> > JTAG port. Doing a nRESET, which is all the DIY wiggler has control
> > over, would reset the processor core but never reset the TAP
> > controller used for JTAG debugging.
> > 
> > I don't have a real wiggler, but given that the Macraigor pinouts PDF
> > file shows the nTRST pin as being type "i" instead of type "oc" like
> > the nRESET pin, I'm guessing that the nTRST signal should be connected
> > to the DATA4 pin using a line driver instead of an inverting open
> > collector transistor circuit as used for the nRESET signal. 
> > 
> > I've updated my schematic diagram to include the proposed change for
> > TRST:
> > 
> > http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> > 
> > --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "derbaier" <dershu@s...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Schlunder" <zilym@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for all the suggestions. I have put together an initial
> > > > schematic diagram using 74VHC14 schmitt trigger inverters and
RC low
> > > > pass filters (as suggested here):
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.k9spud.com/jtag/
> > > > 
> > > > I'm not sure how to add additional signals like RTCK and nTRST.
> > Won't
> > > > these kind of changes require software support on the PC to be
> > useful?
> > > > My understanding was that the Macraigor software was not open
> > source.
> > > > Where should these signals be connected to on the PC side?
> > > > 
> > > > Or are you just suggesting a jumper for the user to manually
switch
> > by
> > > > hand?
> > > > 
> > > > What is the nTRST signal useful for? I'm new to JTAG, just
trying to
> > > > get my first ARM project started.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Ed, your use of 'HC14 parts is exactly the same as ARM did in their
> > > Application Note 31.  IMHO, I think that you will find the RC time
> > > constant of your filters to be much too long!  With such large
> > > resistors, the input capacitance of the of the Schmitt triggers will
> > > probably be plenty of low pass filtering!  Also, if you want to
save a
> > > few parts, you can replace the transistor inverter and it's
assocoated
> > > base resistors with one of your left over 'HC14s with a series diode
> > > on it's output to convert it to an equivalent of an open drain
output.
> > > 
> > > A1. The signal connections on the PC side are fixed by the closed
> > > source Macraigor software, so added enhancements to the
hardeware will
> > > not have Macraigor software support. In any case, the Wiggler
clock is
> > > probably much too slow for RTCK to be very useful unless the target
> > > ARM is being clocked at a much slower than normal speed. RTCK
has been
> > > VERY useful for very high speed JTAG debuggers like TRACE32.
> > > 
> > > A2. The nTRST signal is the JTAG TAP controller reset. The other
reset
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > signal is for the rest of the hardware. In other words, ARM intended
> > > for them to be separately resetable, as they explain in section 12.3
> > > of Application Note 31.
>

Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-20 by Ed Schlunder

The real Wiggler has host control of the TRST. Even if the TAP
controller can be reset by a TCK sequence, wouldn't the Macraigor
OCDremote software likely implement support for reseting the TAP
controller only through the TRST signal and omit support for doing a
special TCK reset sequence? I wonder if this could explain why people
say that they have trouble with OCDremote while the OpenOCD software
works better. Does OpenOCD support the special TCK sequence for
reseting the TAP controller?

In other news, I'm starting to read up on the RTCK pin. The LPC2103
preliminary user's manual, section 20.5 says:

"On the LPC2101/02/03, the pins TMS, TCK, TDI, TDO, and TRST are
multiplexed with P0.27 - P0.31. To have them come up as a Debug port,
connect a weak bias resistor (4.7-10 k\u03a9 depending on the external JTAG
circuitry) between VSS and the RTCK pin. To have them come up as GPIO
pins, do not connect a bias resistor, and ensure that any external
driver connected to Pin 26 (RTCK) is either driving high or is in
high-impedance state during Reset."

This seems to be in contradiction with section 20.8.2, which says:

"The Primary JTAG port can be selected for debugging only when DBGSEL
and RTCK pins are HIGH at reset (see Figure 66). If at least one of
the DBGSEL or RTCK lines is LOW at reset, JTAG will not be enabled and
can not be used for later debugging."

Should RTCK be pulled high or pulled low to enable the JTAG debugger pins?

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "ntfreak2000" <ntfreak2@h...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> The TSRT pin is optional, the jtag cell reset can be obtained by a TCK
> sequence. Anyway most of the manufactursr eg, philips. ST reset this
> when the SRST pin is asserted.
> 
> This is what causes the problem of setting a hardware breakpoint at 0
> and doing a hard reset - does not work for a lot of devices.
> 
> For some reason ARM9 devices very rarely reset the cell when SRST is
> asserted.
> 
> TRST would normally be pulled up to enable debugging.

Re: [lpc2000] Re: Building DIY wiggler w/74VHC14

2006-01-21 by Dominic Rath

Hello,

On Friday 20 January 2006 21:10, Ed Schlunder wrote:
> The real Wiggler has host control of the TRST. Even if the TAP
> controller can be reset by a TCK sequence, wouldn't the Macraigor
> OCDremote software likely implement support for reseting the TAP
> controller only through the TRST signal and omit support for doing a
> special TCK reset sequence? I wonder if this could explain why people
> say that they have trouble with OCDremote while the OpenOCD software
> works better. Does OpenOCD support the special TCK sequence for
> reseting the TAP controller?
>

OpenOCD allows you to specify what reset configuration your jtag interface and 
your target offers: none, trst only, srst only, srst and trst, and the 
possibility that trst might pull srst (just for completeness), that srst 
pulls trst (lpcs behave that way, i.e. a system reset resets the test logic, 
too) or that both reset lines are combined.
If a reset configuration is specified that lacks trst, OpenOCD automatically 
uses the tck sequence.

If there's anything you're missing feel free to contact me, and I'll try to 
get it fixed.

Regards,

Dominic

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