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Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-13 by Hakon Gudmundsson

If you need a PCB board of your design try H-Instruments:

Get 5 pcs of your PCB boards. 5 indentical boards.
2 layers. Any size less than 100x100mm only 59.95$ with shipping
Any size less than 50x50mm only 29.95 $ with free shipping

See: http://www.h-instruments.com or http://www.h-instruments.ecrater.com

We accept Gerber files in RS-274X Format.
Gerber files should contain following layers:
- Gerber Board Outline
- Gerber Bottom Layer
- Gerber Top Layer
- Gerber Bottom Solder Resist
- Gerber Top Solder Resist
- Gerber Bottom Overlay
- Gerber Top Overlay
- Gerber Bottom Paste
- Gerber Top Paste
Spec:
Files Types: Gerber 274-X, 274 and Aperture file

Material: FR - 4

Layer Count: 2

Maximum Panel Size: 100mm x 100mm

Board Size Tolerance: +/- 0.2mm

Board Thickness: 1.6 mm

Board Thickless Tolerance: +/- 10%

Minimum Line Width and Spacing: 0.1524mm

Minimum Hole Diameter: 0.3mm

Standard Lead Time: 5 - 7 business days


Free airmail shipping with tracking no. includet
We send to USA, Canada and most countries in Europe.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-15 by Mike Payson

Wow, more than 2x the price of the competition, and half as many boards:
http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19_20. In fact
for about the same price as your boards, I can get 10 boards from Itead and
get them shipped via DHL.

What makes it worth the extra money? Are they actually made in the UK?

On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Hakon Gudmundsson
<h_instruments@yahoo.com>wrote:

> If you need a PCB board of your design try H-Instruments:
>
> Get 5 pcs of your PCB boards. 5 indentical boards.
> 2 layers. Any size less than 100x100mm only 59.95$ with shipping
> Any size less than 50x50mm only 29.95 $ with free shipping
>
> See: http://www.h-instruments.com or http://www.h-instruments.ecrater.com
>
> We accept Gerber files in RS-274X Format.
> Gerber files should contain following layers:
> - Gerber Board Outline
> - Gerber Bottom Layer
> - Gerber Top Layer
> - Gerber Bottom Solder Resist
> - Gerber Top Solder Resist
> - Gerber Bottom Overlay
> - Gerber Top Overlay
> - Gerber Bottom Paste
> - Gerber Top Paste
> Spec:
> Files Types: Gerber 274-X, 274 and Aperture file
>
> Material: FR - 4
>
> Layer Count: 2
>
> Maximum Panel Size: 100mm x 100mm
>
> Board Size Tolerance: +/- 0.2mm
>
> Board Thickness: 1.6 mm
>
> Board Thickless Tolerance: +/- 10%
>
> Minimum Line Width and Spacing: 0.1524mm
>
> Minimum Hole Diameter: 0.3mm
>
> Standard Lead Time: 5 - 7 business days
>
>
> Free airmail shipping with tracking no. includet
> We send to USA, Canada and most countries in Europe.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-19 by Hakon Gudmundsson

Hi. Thank you for your responce.
The price at iteadstudio is + shipping.
at h-instruments it is with free shipping (air-mail) includet.
Regards



--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Mike Payson <mike@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Wow, more than 2x the price of the competition, and half as many boards:
> http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=19_20. In fact
> for about the same price as your boards, I can get 10 boards from Itead and
> get them shipped via DHL.
> 
> What makes it worth the extra money? Are they actually made in the UK?
> 
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Hakon Gudmundsson
> <h_instruments@...>wrote:
> 
> > If you need a PCB board of your design try H-Instruments:
> >
> > Get 5 pcs of your PCB boards. 5 indentical boards.
> > 2 layers. Any size less than 100x100mm only 59.95$ with shipping
> > Any size less than 50x50mm only 29.95 $ with free shipping
> >
> > See: http://www.h-instruments.com or http://www.h-instruments.ecrater.com
> >
> > We accept Gerber files in RS-274X Format.
> > Gerber files should contain following layers:
> > - Gerber Board Outline
> > - Gerber Bottom Layer
> > - Gerber Top Layer
> > - Gerber Bottom Solder Resist
> > - Gerber Top Solder Resist
> > - Gerber Bottom Overlay
> > - Gerber Top Overlay
> > - Gerber Bottom Paste
> > - Gerber Top Paste
> > Spec:
> > Files Types: Gerber 274-X, 274 and Aperture file
> >
> > Material: FR - 4
> >
> > Layer Count: 2
> >
> > Maximum Panel Size: 100mm x 100mm
> >
> > Board Size Tolerance: +/- 0.2mm
> >
> > Board Thickness: 1.6 mm
> >
> > Board Thickless Tolerance: +/- 10%
> >
> > Minimum Line Width and Spacing: 0.1524mm
> >
> > Minimum Hole Diameter: 0.3mm
> >
> > Standard Lead Time: 5 - 7 business days
> >
> >
> > Free airmail shipping with tracking no. includet
> > We send to USA, Canada and most countries in Europe.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-20 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Hakon Gudmundsson" 

> at h-instruments it is with free shipping (air-mail) includet.

What kind of air-mail shipping are we talking about here?  If it's just ordinary air-mail that takes one to two weeks, the value is just a few dollars and your price is still way above the competition.  If it's an expedited service with guaranteed delivery, then you may have a story.

Graham.

Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-20 by Electroniclab66

Hi.
I can see that seed-studio has good prices. I have not found this page before.
I am manly looking for good PCB prices for my self, so thank you for this information.

Regards
--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "ecros_technology" <Yahoo37849@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Hakon Gudmundsson" 
> 
> > at h-instruments it is with free shipping (air-mail) includet.
> 
> What kind of air-mail shipping are we talking about here?  If it's just ordinary air-mail that takes one to two weeks, the value is just a few dollars and your price is still way above the competition.  If it's an expedited service with guaranteed delivery, then you may have a story.
> 
> Graham.
>

RE: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-20 by Dave McLaughlin

Is this courier shipping or standard postal service?
 
For some people in some countries, myself included, courier is the only way
to guarantee delivery in a few days. Postal service to Indonesia where I am
located takes weeks. I have seen stuff take 6-8 weeks for delivery. I know
you don't indicate my location but it may still affect others.
 
I get my PCB's from EzPCB in China and have been using them for a few years
now with great service and much lower costs than your website shows and only
$30 shipping with TNT and great delivery times of 2-3 days.
 
Sorry, but you need to be offering something a little more to get the
business.
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Hakon Gudmundsson
Sent: 19 May 2011 23:24
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
 
  
Hi. Thank you for your responce.
The price at iteadstudio is + shipping.
at h-instruments it is with free shipping (air-mail) includet.
Regards

> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Hakon Gudmundsson
> <h_instruments@...>wrote:
> 
> > If you need a PCB board of your design try H-Instruments:
> >
> > Get 5 pcs of your PCB boards. 5 indentical boards.
> > 2 layers. Any size less than 100x100mm only 59.95$ with shipping
> > Any size less than 50x50mm only 29.95 $ with free shipping
> >
> > See: http://www.h-instruments.com or
http://www.h-instruments.ecrater.com
> >
> > We accept Gerber files in RS-274X Format.
> > Gerber files should contain following layers:
> > - Gerber Board Outline
> > - Gerber Bottom Layer
> > - Gerber Top Layer
> > - Gerber Bottom Solder Resist
> > - Gerber Top Solder Resist
> > - Gerber Bottom Overlay
> > - Gerber Top Overlay
> > - Gerber Bottom Paste
> > - Gerber Top Paste
> > Spec:
> > Files Types: Gerber 274-X, 274 and Aperture file
> >
> > Material: FR - 4
> >
> > Layer Count: 2
> >
> > Maximum Panel Size: 100mm x 100mm
> >
> > Board Size Tolerance: +/- 0.2mm
> >
> > Board Thickness: 1.6 mm
> >
> > Board Thickless Tolerance: +/- 10%
> >
> > Minimum Line Width and Spacing: 0.1524mm
> >
> > Minimum Hole Diameter: 0.3mm
> >
> > Standard Lead Time: 5 - 7 business days
> >
> >
> > Free airmail shipping with tracking no. includet
> > We send to USA, Canada and most countries in Europe.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-20 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Electroniclab66" <electroniclab66@...> wrote:
>
> I can see that seed-studio has good prices ...
> I am manly looking for good PCB prices ...

Yeah, I'm "manly" too when I look for good prices.

Let me share my experience.  I ordered a small design from Seeed Studio mainly (or was that also "manly") to test the Fusion PCB service.  The board was 1.6  by 1.25 inches and at the time I placed the order the price for this was $20 for 10 pieces.  The order process was laborious, but worked as explained on the Web site.  I selected the cheap shipping so the total came to $23.52.  Note that prices seem to have gone up a little, but more options are available now.

I placed the order on April 2.  I received a notice of an "exception" on the order, but all that means is that they can't ship immediately (they have to make the things first).  The order shipped on April 11 and arrived on April 25.  So, 23 days from order to receipt.  Obviously this would have been less if I'd ponied up a few more bucks for shipping.

I received 12 PCBs, not 10.  Five were packaged separately and marked "tested".  The quality was fine.  In particualy, the finish really was HASL, not just the solder dip you get from some suppliers who advertise HASL.  In other words, there were no bumps of solder on the pads.  In even more other words, planarity was good, so these PCBs would be OK for fine pitch parts.

One weird thing.  I use Eagle, so I downloaded the Seeed Studio DRC file.  Everything was as expected except that the minimum restring was 10 mils.  This is not consistent with minimum trace/space rules of 6 mils and may be an oversight.  So, if you're going to go close to the edge you may want to watch this or ask Seeed Studio if this is an error.  I would expect something closer to 7 or 8 mils.  Mind you, if I had to criticize the boards, I would say that the drills are not in the middle of the pads, so maybe they have a naff drill machine.

Graham.

RE: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-21 by Dave McLaughlin

Hi Graham,
 
Shipping seems like a long time. I would be interested to know how far you
are from them?
 
As I said earlier, I use EzPCB and get boards in 2 days delivery (after 7-8
days production) from China to Indonesia. For me this is quick and they are
much cheaper than others I have used.
 
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ecros_technology
Sent: 21 May 2011 03:27
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
 

I placed the order on April 2. I received a notice of an "exception" on the
order, but all that means is that they can't ship immediately (they have to
make the things first). The order shipped on April 11 and arrived on April
25. So, 23 days from order to receipt. Obviously this would have been less
if I'd ponied up a few more bucks for shipping.

Graham.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-21 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Dave McLaughlin" <dave_mclaughlin@...> wrote:

> Shipping seems like a long time.
> I would be interested to know
> how far you are from them?

Sorry, I didn't know that you can no longer get this information from my profile.  Seeed Studio is in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China and I am near Boston, Massachusetts.  (I am the only Graham Davies in this area according to LinkedIn.)  Google maps gives the travel distance as 12,146 miles and the travel time as 38 days 15 hours, although this is by road and kayak (someone at Google has a sense of humor).  Basically, I am on the other side of the world.

As I wrote, the PCB order I reported was mainly an experiment.  Usually, I would select a faster shipping method for an actual project, if I even went offshore for prototypes (I usually use PCB Fab Express and get them in a week or less, delivered).  This PCB was from a project that was cancelled by the customer after I had completed the design (don't you just hate that, and, no, he didn't pay).

I have not used EzPCB.  Fiddling with their ordering application, it seems that for my test order they would have charged $50 for five pieces as compared to $23.52 for ten (12 actually delivered).  The price does not increase until one side of the board exceeds 99 mm, but Seeed studio is still cheaper.  EMS shipping is $30.  I'd have to go to checkout to get this figure from Seeed, but it's probably the same.  So, at least for small boards, Seeed is less money for more pieces.

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-21 by Mike Payson

On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:57 AM, ecros_technology
<Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com>wrote:
>
> I have not used EzPCB.  Fiddling with their ordering application, it seems
> that for my test order they would have charged $50 for five pieces as
> compared to $23.52 for ten (12 actually delivered).  The price does not
> increase until one side of the board exceeds 99 mm, but Seeed studio is
> still cheaper.  EMS shipping is $30.  I'd have to go to checkout to get this
> figure from Seeed, but it's probably the same.  So, at least for small
> boards, Seeed is less money for more pieces.


Using EzPCB's online quote engine, five 100x100mm boards is $65 with free HK
Post shipping or $95 with EMS. Compare that too $25 + $5 shipping (or +$30
for EMS) from Iteadstudio or Seedstudio. Not only is the price more than 50%
lower, you also get 2x as many boards (or more). If you can make your board
smaller, < 5x5cm, then the cost drops to $10 + $4 shipping for the same 10
boards. Seriously, under $15 for 10 pcbs with silkscreens and solder masks.
For that price I think I can deal with the hassles of making Gerbers and
waiting a few extra days. :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-22 by Dave McLaughlin

Here's a question for you in reference to Seeedstudio. Can they do odd
shaped boards and handle cutouts? Ie, not just square or rectangle.
 
This is one board I had done with EzPCB last year.
 
http://www.axoninstruments.biz/Services/CIMG1667-thumb.JPG
 
A lot of my boards have cutouts or tabs or curved corners and although I pay
more from EzPCB they do a great job. These are always commercial designs so
the little extra costs is fine. 
 
I will give Seeedstudio a go for one of my home projects as price wise it
certainly is much lower. 
 
Do they have a better shipping option though as anything that uses the
postal service (even EMS) can lead to 4-8 weeks delivery here in Indonesia.
I don't mind paying around $40 for DHL, TNT etc.
 
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Payson
Sent: 21 May 2011 23:29
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
 
  
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:57 AM, ecros_technology
<Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com <mailto:Yahoo37849%40ecrostech.com> >wrote:
>
> I have not used EzPCB. Fiddling with their ordering application, it seems
> that for my test order they would have charged $50 for five pieces as
> compared to $23.52 for ten (12 actually delivered). The price does not
> increase until one side of the board exceeds 99 mm, but Seeed studio is
> still cheaper. EMS shipping is $30. I'd have to go to checkout to get this
> figure from Seeed, but it's probably the same. So, at least for small
> boards, Seeed is less money for more pieces.

Using EzPCB's online quote engine, five 100x100mm boards is $65 with free HK
Post shipping or $95 with EMS. Compare that too $25 + $5 shipping (or +$30
for EMS) from Iteadstudio or Seedstudio. Not only is the price more than 50%
lower, you also get 2x as many boards (or more). If you can make your board
smaller, < 5x5cm, then the cost drops to $10 + $4 shipping for the same 10
boards. Seriously, under $15 for 10 pcbs with silkscreens and solder masks.
For that price I think I can deal with the hassles of making Gerbers and
waiting a few extra days. :-)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-22 by Mike Payson

Yes, they do any shape within the limits of the size boards you order. Here
is a round board I made a year or so ago:

https://picasaweb.google.com/mikepayson/Eagle?authkey=Gv1sRgCIOit4qPkIqjWg#5415641075268235010

On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Dave McLaughlin <
dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:

> Here's a question for you in reference to Seeedstudio. Can they do odd
> shaped boards and handle cutouts? Ie, not just square or rectangle.
>
> This is one board I had done with EzPCB last year.
>
> http://www.axoninstruments.biz/Services/CIMG1667-thumb.JPG
>
> A lot of my boards have cutouts or tabs or curved corners and although I
> pay
> more from EzPCB they do a great job. These are always commercial designs so
> the little extra costs is fine.
>
> I will give Seeedstudio a go for one of my home projects as price wise it
> certainly is much lower.
>
> Do they have a better shipping option though as anything that uses the
> postal service (even EMS) can lead to 4-8 weeks delivery here in Indonesia.
> I don't mind paying around $40 for DHL, TNT etc.
>
>
> Dave...
> ---
> Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
> ---
>
>
>
> From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike Payson
> Sent: 21 May 2011 23:29
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom
> made
>
>
> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:57 AM, ecros_technology
> <Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com <mailto:Yahoo37849%40ecrostech.com> >wrote:
> >
> > I have not used EzPCB. Fiddling with their ordering application, it seems
> > that for my test order they would have charged $50 for five pieces as
> > compared to $23.52 for ten (12 actually delivered). The price does not
> > increase until one side of the board exceeds 99 mm, but Seeed studio is
> > still cheaper. EMS shipping is $30. I'd have to go to checkout to get
> this
> > figure from Seeed, but it's probably the same. So, at least for small
> > boards, Seeed is less money for more pieces.
>
> Using EzPCB's online quote engine, five 100x100mm boards is $65 with free
> HK
> Post shipping or $95 with EMS. Compare that too $25 + $5 shipping (or +$30
> for EMS) from Iteadstudio or Seedstudio. Not only is the price more than
> 50%
> lower, you also get 2x as many boards (or more). If you can make your board
> smaller, < 5x5cm, then the cost drops to $10 + $4 shipping for the same 10
> boards. Seriously, under $15 for 10 pcbs with silkscreens and solder masks.
> For that price I think I can deal with the hassles of making Gerbers and
> waiting a few extra days. :-)
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-26 by Mike Payson

Was interested in EzPCB because they appear to offer to populate 0402
resistors and capacitors for free. It was unclear, though, so I asked
their live support representative. This is a transcript of the live
chat:

Nila
Hello Friend,Welcome to EzPCB.Can I help you?

Hello
Can you confirm that your ez proto service includes the smt resistors
and capacitors you list on your site?
or is that fo an extra charge?

Nila
hi friend,
what is the parts you need?

Hello
0402 resistors
I do not have an exact part list, but probably not more than 20 in
standard values

Nila
we provide the service,but we have condition
you must help us to popularize our website

Hello
Happy to if it makes my life easier!
So for 5 of a 100x80mm 2 layer board with those components populated
it would be $50?

Nila
we provide the service,but we have condition  you must help us to
popularize our website
such as post topics on facebook or twitter or forum etc
the topic must refer to ezpcb and webiste link

Hello
Ah, I am happy to refer to companies that I like, but will not do it
as a condition of the sale
Too bad, was excited about your service
That is bad business, and I will not participate, and will publicize
that you require this to get the service.

Nila
this is other sale method,many clients like this way
do you think this to good way to get free parts?

Hello
I do, and am happy to tell people about good service
I regularly participate in several electronics related online forums
And regularly recommend several services, including your competitors
Your service is not the best prrice, but with the populated components
it is compelling
But I will not pubblicize you as a condition of doing business, ONLY
if I am happy with your service

Nila
now ez-pro price is very low

Hello
So to get the free components I have to give you a link where I have
recommended your service?

Nila
yes

Hello
Ok, sorry I cannot do business with you



On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Dave McLaughlin
<dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Here's a question for you in reference to Seeedstudio. Can they do odd
> shaped boards and handle cutouts? Ie, not just square or rectangle.
>
> This is one board I had done with EzPCB last year.
>
> http://www.axoninstruments.biz/Services/CIMG1667-thumb.JPG
>
> A lot of my boards have cutouts or tabs or curved corners and although I pay
> more from EzPCB they do a great job. These are always commercial designs so
> the little extra costs is fine.
>
> I will give Seeedstudio a go for one of my home projects as price wise it
> certainly is much lower.
>
> Do they have a better shipping option though as anything that uses the
> postal service (even EMS) can lead to 4-8 weeks delivery here in Indonesia.
> I don't mind paying around $40 for DHL, TNT etc.
>
>
> Dave...
> ---
> Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
> ---
>
>
>
> From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike Payson
> Sent: 21 May 2011 23:29
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
>
>
> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:57 AM, ecros_technology
> <Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com <mailto:Yahoo37849%40ecrostech.com> >wrote:
>>
>> I have not used EzPCB. Fiddling with their ordering application, it seems
>> that for my test order they would have charged $50 for five pieces as
>> compared to $23.52 for ten (12 actually delivered). The price does not
>> increase until one side of the board exceeds 99 mm, but Seeed studio is
>> still cheaper. EMS shipping is $30. I'd have to go to checkout to get this
>> figure from Seeed, but it's probably the same. So, at least for small
>> boards, Seeed is less money for more pieces.
>
> Using EzPCB's online quote engine, five 100x100mm boards is $65 with free HK
> Post shipping or $95 with EMS. Compare that too $25 + $5 shipping (or +$30
> for EMS) from Iteadstudio or Seedstudio. Not only is the price more than 50%
> lower, you also get 2x as many boards (or more). If you can make your board
> smaller, < 5x5cm, then the cost drops to $10 + $4 shipping for the same 10
> boards. Seriously, under $15 for 10 pcbs with silkscreens and solder masks.
> For that price I think I can deal with the hassles of making Gerbers and
> waiting a few extra days. :-)
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

0402 parts (was: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards ...)

2011-05-26 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Mike Payson <mike@...> wrote:

> ... interested in EzPCB ... offer to populate 0402
> resistors and capacitors for free ... asked support representative ... transcript of the live chat:

Thank you very much for going to this trouble and posting the results of your investigation.

I don't want to warp this thread off its topic, but if I correctly read between the lines that you don't like populating 0402 components, I have to agree with you.  Everything down to 0603 is fine, but with 0402 I have trouble getting the right amount of solder paste without a stencil (i.e. for prototypes).  As a result, about 10% of the parts "tombstone" (stand up on end) and I have to laboriously reposition them after reflow.

I have decided not to use 0402 parts.  Unless I omit the silkscreen marking of the ref. des., they don't really save that much space.  Also, I can get a trace under an 0603 part, which helps routing and can save vias so, again, I'm not convinced that an 0402 saves space.  If the customer requires 0402, of course, them I'm OK with that.

We should also be clear that the EzPCB offer applies only to "parts in stock".  It's not at all clear how to find out what that means.

Graham.

RE: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-26 by Dave McLaughlin

Hi Mike,
 
That is obviously a very poor response you got from Nila. I have been
dealing with her personally for about 2 years now. I never use the online
ordering but instead send direct to her my order and it always works out a
better price this way.
 
I am also very surprised by the attitude she gave you in respect to the free
offer. She don't need to request you to post a link as I am sure that once
you had used the service I am sure you would have quite happily posted on a
forum somewhere just because you felt it was a good service.
 
If you don't mind, I would like to complain to her about how she approached
you seeing as it was myself who recommended them. They need to rethink their
customer service in this situation.
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Payson
Sent: 26 May 2011 14:53
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
 
  
Was interested in EzPCB because they appear to offer to populate 0402
resistors and capacitors for free. It was unclear, though, so I asked
their live support representative. This is a transcript of the live
chat:

Nila
Hello Friend,Welcome to EzPCB.Can I help you?

Hello
Can you confirm that your ez proto service includes the smt resistors
and capacitors you list on your site?
or is that fo an extra charge?

Nila
hi friend,
what is the parts you need?

Hello
0402 resistors
I do not have an exact part list, but probably not more than 20 in
standard values

Nila
we provide the service,but we have condition
you must help us to popularize our website

Hello
Happy to if it makes my life easier!
So for 5 of a 100x80mm 2 layer board with those components populated
it would be $50?

Nila
we provide the service,but we have condition you must help us to
popularize our website
such as post topics on facebook or twitter or forum etc
the topic must refer to ezpcb and webiste link

Hello
Ah, I am happy to refer to companies that I like, but will not do it
as a condition of the sale
Too bad, was excited about your service
That is bad business, and I will not participate, and will publicize
that you require this to get the service.

Nila
this is other sale method,many clients like this way
do you think this to good way to get free parts?

Hello
I do, and am happy to tell people about good service
I regularly participate in several electronics related online forums
And regularly recommend several services, including your competitors
Your service is not the best prrice, but with the populated components
it is compelling
But I will not pubblicize you as a condition of doing business, ONLY
if I am happy with your service

Nila
now ez-pro price is very low

Hello
So to get the free components I have to give you a link where I have
recommended your service?

Nila
yes

Hello
Ok, sorry I cannot do business with you





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-26 by Mike Payson

Please feel free. I am absolutely shocked by that response, and would
love to have you, an existing customer, tell her you are as well. She
was quite explicit, though. I clipped the bit at the end where she
backpedaled after I told her I planned to post her comments, when she
said, "well, if you really object we will let it go..." (though in
much more broken English). I just closed the window. I will not
participate in their spam.

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 3:21 AM, Dave McLaughlin
<dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Mike,
>
> That is obviously a very poor response you got from Nila. I have been
> dealing with her personally for about 2 years now. I never use the online
> ordering but instead send direct to her my order and it always works out a
> better price this way.
>
> I am also very surprised by the attitude she gave you in respect to the free
> offer. She don't need to request you to post a link as I am sure that once
> you had used the service I am sure you would have quite happily posted on a
> forum somewhere just because you felt it was a good service.
>
> If you don't mind, I would like to complain to her about how she approached
> you seeing as it was myself who recommended them. They need to rethink their
> customer service in this situation.
>
> Dave...
> ---
> Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
> ---
>
>
>
> From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike Payson
> Sent: 26 May 2011 14:53
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
>
>
> Was interested in EzPCB because they appear to offer to populate 0402
> resistors and capacitors for free. It was unclear, though, so I asked
> their live support representative. This is a transcript of the live
> chat:
>
> Nila
> Hello Friend,Welcome to EzPCB.Can I help you?
>
> Hello
> Can you confirm that your ez proto service includes the smt resistors
> and capacitors you list on your site?
> or is that fo an extra charge?
>
> Nila
> hi friend,
> what is the parts you need?
>
> Hello
> 0402 resistors
> I do not have an exact part list, but probably not more than 20 in
> standard values
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition
> you must help us to popularize our website
>
> Hello
> Happy to if it makes my life easier!
> So for 5 of a 100x80mm 2 layer board with those components populated
> it would be $50?
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition you must help us to
> popularize our website
> such as post topics on facebook or twitter or forum etc
> the topic must refer to ezpcb and webiste link
>
> Hello
> Ah, I am happy to refer to companies that I like, but will not do it
> as a condition of the sale
> Too bad, was excited about your service
> That is bad business, and I will not participate, and will publicize
> that you require this to get the service.
>
> Nila
> this is other sale method,many clients like this way
> do you think this to good way to get free parts?
>
> Hello
> I do, and am happy to tell people about good service
> I regularly participate in several electronics related online forums
> And regularly recommend several services, including your competitors
> Your service is not the best prrice, but with the populated components
> it is compelling
> But I will not pubblicize you as a condition of doing business, ONLY
> if I am happy with your service
>
> Nila
> now ez-pro price is very low
>
> Hello
> So to get the free components I have to give you a link where I have
> recommended your service?
>
> Nila
> yes
>
> Hello
> Ok, sorry I cannot do business with you
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-26 by Mike Payson

And yes, I am always VERY happy to promote companies that I like, as
many of you know. This sort of behavior is really self destructive in
the long run. Good service WILL be promoted, demanding people promote
you to get that level of service will never be a good business model.

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 3:21 AM, Dave McLaughlin
<dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Mike,
>
> That is obviously a very poor response you got from Nila. I have been
> dealing with her personally for about 2 years now. I never use the online
> ordering but instead send direct to her my order and it always works out a
> better price this way.
>
> I am also very surprised by the attitude she gave you in respect to the free
> offer. She don't need to request you to post a link as I am sure that once
> you had used the service I am sure you would have quite happily posted on a
> forum somewhere just because you felt it was a good service.
>
> If you don't mind, I would like to complain to her about how she approached
> you seeing as it was myself who recommended them. They need to rethink their
> customer service in this situation.
>
> Dave...
> ---
> Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
> ---
>
>
>
> From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike Payson
> Sent: 26 May 2011 14:53
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
>
>
> Was interested in EzPCB because they appear to offer to populate 0402
> resistors and capacitors for free. It was unclear, though, so I asked
> their live support representative. This is a transcript of the live
> chat:
>
> Nila
> Hello Friend,Welcome to EzPCB.Can I help you?
>
> Hello
> Can you confirm that your ez proto service includes the smt resistors
> and capacitors you list on your site?
> or is that fo an extra charge?
>
> Nila
> hi friend,
> what is the parts you need?
>
> Hello
> 0402 resistors
> I do not have an exact part list, but probably not more than 20 in
> standard values
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition
> you must help us to popularize our website
>
> Hello
> Happy to if it makes my life easier!
> So for 5 of a 100x80mm 2 layer board with those components populated
> it would be $50?
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition you must help us to
> popularize our website
> such as post topics on facebook or twitter or forum etc
> the topic must refer to ezpcb and webiste link
>
> Hello
> Ah, I am happy to refer to companies that I like, but will not do it
> as a condition of the sale
> Too bad, was excited about your service
> That is bad business, and I will not participate, and will publicize
> that you require this to get the service.
>
> Nila
> this is other sale method,many clients like this way
> do you think this to good way to get free parts?
>
> Hello
> I do, and am happy to tell people about good service
> I regularly participate in several electronics related online forums
> And regularly recommend several services, including your competitors
> Your service is not the best prrice, but with the populated components
> it is compelling
> But I will not pubblicize you as a condition of doing business, ONLY
> if I am happy with your service
>
> Nila
> now ez-pro price is very low
>
> Hello
> So to get the free components I have to give you a link where I have
> recommended your service?
>
> Nila
> yes
>
> Hello
> Ok, sorry I cannot do business with you
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-26 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:
>
> ... Five boards [from EzPCB] for
> $10 apiece is quite a deal.

... except that, as we determined earlier in this thread, it's far from the best deal available.

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-26 by Zack Widup

That's a shame. Five boards as you described, even unpopulated, for
$10 apiece is quite a deal.

Zack
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 5/26/11, Mike Payson <mike@kludgineering.com> wrote:
> Was interested in EzPCB because they appear to offer to populate 0402
> resistors and capacitors for free. It was unclear, though, so I asked
> their live support representative. This is a transcript of the live
> chat:
>
> Nila
> Hello Friend,Welcome to EzPCB.Can I help you?
>
> Hello
> Can you confirm that your ez proto service includes the smt resistors
> and capacitors you list on your site?
> or is that fo an extra charge?
>
> Nila
> hi friend,
> what is the parts you need?
>
> Hello
> 0402 resistors
> I do not have an exact part list, but probably not more than 20 in
> standard values
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition
> you must help us to popularize our website
>
> Hello
> Happy to if it makes my life easier!
> So for 5 of a 100x80mm 2 layer board with those components populated
> it would be $50?
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition  you must help us to
> popularize our website
> such as post topics on facebook or twitter or forum etc
> the topic must refer to ezpcb and webiste link
>
> Hello
> Ah, I am happy to refer to companies that I like, but will not do it
> as a condition of the sale
> Too bad, was excited about your service
> That is bad business, and I will not participate, and will publicize
> that you require this to get the service.
>
> Nila
> this is other sale method,many clients like this way
> do you think this to good way to get free parts?
>
> Hello
> I do, and am happy to tell people about good service
> I regularly participate in several electronics related online forums
> And regularly recommend several services, including your competitors
> Your service is not the best prrice, but with the populated components
> it is compelling
> But I will not pubblicize you as a condition of doing business, ONLY
> if I am happy with your service
>
> Nila
> now ez-pro price is very low
>
> Hello
> So to get the free components I have to give you a link where I have
> recommended your service?
>
> Nila
> yes
>
> Hello
> Ok, sorry I cannot do business with you
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Dave McLaughlin
> <dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:
>> Here's a question for you in reference to Seeedstudio. Can they do odd
>> shaped boards and handle cutouts? Ie, not just square or rectangle.
>>
>> This is one board I had done with EzPCB last year.
>>
>> http://www.axoninstruments.biz/Services/CIMG1667-thumb.JPG
>>
>> A lot of my boards have cutouts or tabs or curved corners and although I
>> pay
>> more from EzPCB they do a great job. These are always commercial designs
>> so
>> the little extra costs is fine.
>>
>> I will give Seeedstudio a go for one of my home projects as price wise it
>> certainly is much lower.
>>
>> Do they have a better shipping option though as anything that uses the
>> postal service (even EMS) can lead to 4-8 weeks delivery here in
>> Indonesia.
>> I don't mind paying around $40 for DHL, TNT etc.
>>
>>
>> Dave...
>> ---
>> Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>> From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of Mike Payson
>> Sent: 21 May 2011 23:29
>> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom
>> made
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:57 AM, ecros_technology
>> <Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com <mailto:Yahoo37849%40ecrostech.com> >wrote:
>>>
>>> I have not used EzPCB. Fiddling with their ordering application, it seems
>>> that for my test order they would have charged $50 for five pieces as
>>> compared to $23.52 for ten (12 actually delivered). The price does not
>>> increase until one side of the board exceeds 99 mm, but Seeed studio is
>>> still cheaper. EMS shipping is $30. I'd have to go to checkout to get
>>> this
>>> figure from Seeed, but it's probably the same. So, at least for small
>>> boards, Seeed is less money for more pieces.
>>
>> Using EzPCB's online quote engine, five 100x100mm boards is $65 with free
>> HK
>> Post shipping or $95 with EMS. Compare that too $25 + $5 shipping (or +$30
>> for EMS) from Iteadstudio or Seedstudio. Not only is the price more than
>> 50%
>> lower, you also get 2x as many boards (or more). If you can make your
>> board
>> smaller, < 5x5cm, then the cost drops to $10 + $4 shipping for the same 10
>> boards. Seriously, under $15 for 10 pcbs with silkscreens and solder
>> masks.
>> For that price I think I can deal with the hassles of making Gerbers and
>> waiting a few extra days. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-26 by Zack Widup

Yeah, I see. I forgot about the earlier messages talking about this.

You know what they say ... as you get older, the first thing to go is your
memory and the second thing is ... I forget what that is.
:-)

Zack


On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 10:17 AM, ecros_technology <Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com
> wrote:

>
>
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@...> wrote:
> >
> > ... Five boards [from EzPCB] for
>
> > $10 apiece is quite a deal.
>
> ... except that, as we determined earlier in this thread, it's far from the
> best deal available.
>
> Graham.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] 0402 parts (was: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards ...)

2011-05-26 by Mike Payson

On the particular board I am designing there are probably a dozen places
where using 0402 would be beneficial, and in these cases, I don't need to
run traces underneath them. In general, I use 0805 or above, but for this
particular board the extra density would be nice.

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 3:54 AM, ecros_technology
<Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com>wrote:

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Mike Payson <mike@...> wrote:
>
> > ... interested in EzPCB ... offer to populate 0402
> > resistors and capacitors for free ... asked support representative ...
> transcript of the live chat:
>
> Thank you very much for going to this trouble and posting the results of
> your investigation.
>
> I don't want to warp this thread off its topic, but if I correctly read
> between the lines that you don't like populating 0402 components, I have to
> agree with you.  Everything down to 0603 is fine, but with 0402 I have
> trouble getting the right amount of solder paste without a stencil (i.e. for
> prototypes).  As a result, about 10% of the parts "tombstone" (stand up on
> end) and I have to laboriously reposition them after reflow.
>
> I have decided not to use 0402 parts.  Unless I omit the silkscreen marking
> of the ref. des., they don't really save that much space.  Also, I can get a
> trace under an 0603 part, which helps routing and can save vias so, again,
> I'm not convinced that an 0402 saves space.  If the customer requires 0402,
> of course, them I'm OK with that.
>
> We should also be clear that the EzPCB offer applies only to "parts in
> stock".  It's not at all clear how to find out what that means.
>
> Graham.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AVR-Chat] 0402 parts (was: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards ...)

2011-05-27 by Dave McLaughlin

Hi guys,
 
More in response to Graham, but have you considered some of the low cost
prototype stencil offers that are now being made if you are considering
doing such small SMD devices?
 
I recently did a board (2 off as it happens) for a customer and I ordered a
stencil at the same time. I had used 0.5mm pitch FPC connectors and a number
of QFN devices on the board which are a nightmare to hand solder (they also
have GND pads on the underside). Using the stencil and a cheap Chinese
stencil machine from eBay, both boards came out of the oven and worked first
time. I was converted there and then to the use of a stencil and my air
dispensing kit now sits and gathers dust (unless I do some simple SMD board
that is)
 
 
PS.. I have kicked ezPCB's butt for the response Mile received. I don't work
for them but I am a happy customer and I basically told them to change their
tactics as regards getting new customers. Let's see if this makes a
change!!!
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Payson
Sent: 27 May 2011 01:15
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] 0402 parts (was: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards
..)
 
  
On the particular board I am designing there are probably a dozen places
where using 0402 would be beneficial, and in these cases, I don't need to
run traces underneath them. In general, I use 0805 or above, but for this
particular board the extra density would be nice.

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 3:54 AM, ecros_technology
<Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com <mailto:Yahoo37849%40ecrostech.com> >wrote:

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AVR-Chat%40yahoogroups.com> , Mike
Payson <mike@...> wrote:
>
> > ... interested in EzPCB ... offer to populate 0402
> > resistors and capacitors for free ... asked support representative ...
> transcript of the live chat:
>
> Thank you very much for going to this trouble and posting the results of
> your investigation.
>
> I don't want to warp this thread off its topic, but if I correctly read
> between the lines that you don't like populating 0402 components, I have
to
> agree with you. Everything down to 0603 is fine, but with 0402 I have
> trouble getting the right amount of solder paste without a stencil (i.e.
for
> prototypes). As a result, about 10% of the parts "tombstone" (stand up on
> end) and I have to laboriously reposition them after reflow.
>
> I have decided not to use 0402 parts. Unless I omit the silkscreen marking
> of the ref. des., they don't really save that much space. Also, I can get
a
> trace under an 0603 part, which helps routing and can save vias so, again,
> I'm not convinced that an 0402 saves space. If the customer requires 0402,
> of course, them I'm OK with that.
>
> We should also be clear that the EzPCB offer applies only to "parts in
> stock". It's not at all clear how to find out what that means.
>
> Graham.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Mike Payson

FWIW, After Dave forwarded my email to the company I received an email from
the CEO. His initial response was a bit wishy-washy, apologizing but not
actually stating they had changed the policy, but after following up with
him he made it clear that they would no longer ask people to post links
prior to ordering. In addition, he gave me some unsolicited (and in my case
unneeded, but appreciated anyway) technical advice regarding the use of 0402
components on my board (put succinctly, don't do it unless you know what you
are doing).

At this point, I am willing to accept that the problem was simply a cultural
difference (he said this is a standard business practice in China) and let
it slide. They have changed their policy, so that is all that matters to me.

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Mike Payson <mike@kludgineering.com>wrote:

> Was interested in EzPCB because they appear to offer to populate 0402
> resistors and capacitors for free. It was unclear, though, so I asked
> their live support representative. This is a transcript of the live
> chat:
>
> Nila
> Hello Friend,Welcome to EzPCB.Can I help you?
>
> Hello
> Can you confirm that your ez proto service includes the smt resistors
> and capacitors you list on your site?
> or is that fo an extra charge?
>
> Nila
> hi friend,
> what is the parts you need?
>
> Hello
> 0402 resistors
> I do not have an exact part list, but probably not more than 20 in
> standard values
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition
> you must help us to popularize our website
>
> Hello
> Happy to if it makes my life easier!
> So for 5 of a 100x80mm 2 layer board with those components populated
> it would be $50?
>
> Nila
> we provide the service,but we have condition  you must help us to
> popularize our website
> such as post topics on facebook or twitter or forum etc
> the topic must refer to ezpcb and webiste link
>
> Hello
> Ah, I am happy to refer to companies that I like, but will not do it
> as a condition of the sale
> Too bad, was excited about your service
> That is bad business, and I will not participate, and will publicize
> that you require this to get the service.
>
> Nila
> this is other sale method,many clients like this way
> do you think this to good way to get free parts?
>
> Hello
> I do, and am happy to tell people about good service
> I regularly participate in several electronics related online forums
> And regularly recommend several services, including your competitors
> Your service is not the best prrice, but with the populated components
> it is compelling
> But I will not pubblicize you as a condition of doing business, ONLY
> if I am happy with your service
>
> Nila
> now ez-pro price is very low
>
> Hello
> So to get the free components I have to give you a link where I have
> recommended your service?
>
> Nila
> yes
>
> Hello
> Ok, sorry I cannot do business with you
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Dave McLaughlin
> <dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:
> > Here's a question for you in reference to Seeedstudio. Can they do odd
> > shaped boards and handle cutouts? Ie, not just square or rectangle.
> >
> > This is one board I had done with EzPCB last year.
> >
> > http://www.axoninstruments.biz/Services/CIMG1667-thumb.JPG
> >
> > A lot of my boards have cutouts or tabs or curved corners and although I
> pay
> > more from EzPCB they do a great job. These are always commercial designs
> so
> > the little extra costs is fine.
> >
> > I will give Seeedstudio a go for one of my home projects as price wise it
> > certainly is much lower.
> >
> > Do they have a better shipping option though as anything that uses the
> > postal service (even EMS) can lead to 4-8 weeks delivery here in
> Indonesia.
> > I don't mind paying around $40 for DHL, TNT etc.
> >
> >
> > Dave...
> > ---
> > Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of Mike Payson
> > Sent: 21 May 2011 23:29
> > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom
> made
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:57 AM, ecros_technology
> > <Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com <mailto:Yahoo37849%40ecrostech.com> >wrote:
> >>
> >> I have not used EzPCB. Fiddling with their ordering application, it
> seems
> >> that for my test order they would have charged $50 for five pieces as
> >> compared to $23.52 for ten (12 actually delivered). The price does not
> >> increase until one side of the board exceeds 99 mm, but Seeed studio is
> >> still cheaper. EMS shipping is $30. I'd have to go to checkout to get
> this
> >> figure from Seeed, but it's probably the same. So, at least for small
> >> boards, Seeed is less money for more pieces.
> >
> > Using EzPCB's online quote engine, five 100x100mm boards is $65 with free
> HK
> > Post shipping or $95 with EMS. Compare that too $25 + $5 shipping (or
> +$30
> > for EMS) from Iteadstudio or Seedstudio. Not only is the price more than
> 50%
> > lower, you also get 2x as many boards (or more). If you can make your
> board
> > smaller, < 5x5cm, then the cost drops to $10 + $4 shipping for the same
> 10
> > boards. Seriously, under $15 for 10 pcbs with silkscreens and solder
> masks.
> > For that price I think I can deal with the hassles of making Gerbers and
> > waiting a few extra days. :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Zack Widup

I have never made two-layer boards but I have made many double-sided
boards myself. I'm not set up to mass-produce boards but I can usually
make 3 or 4 at a time with no problem.

I made some boards for 47 and 78 GHz (millimeter-wave) ham radio
projects. The tiny circuits are etched on 5-mil thick Duroid
teflon-fiberglass board. I used some HSCH9251 "flip-chip" diodes.
These have packages about 10 mils square, and with leads the devices
are about 28 mils long. The leads are a few mils wide. They look like
fly specks. You can't solder them; there are two common ways of
mounting them - wirebonding and with conductive silver-epoxy such as
Epotek H20e. I use the silver epoxy.

Zack
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 5/13/11, Hakon Gudmundsson <h_instruments@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you need a PCB board of your design try H-Instruments:
>
> Get 5 pcs of your PCB boards. 5 indentical boards.
> 2 layers. Any size less than 100x100mm only 59.95$ with shipping
> Any size less than 50x50mm only 29.95 $ with free shipping
>
> See: http://www.h-instruments.com or http://www.h-instruments.ecrater.com
>
> We accept Gerber files in RS-274X Format.
> Gerber files should contain following layers:
> - Gerber Board Outline
> - Gerber Bottom Layer
> - Gerber Top Layer
> - Gerber Bottom Solder Resist
> - Gerber Top Solder Resist
> - Gerber Bottom Overlay
> - Gerber Top Overlay
> - Gerber Bottom Paste
> - Gerber Top Paste
> Spec:
> Files Types: Gerber 274-X, 274 and Aperture file
>
> Material: FR - 4
>
> Layer Count: 2
>
> Maximum Panel Size: 100mm x 100mm
>
> Board Size Tolerance: +/- 0.2mm
>
> Board Thickness: 1.6 mm
>
> Board Thickless Tolerance: +/- 10%
>
> Minimum Line Width and Spacing: 0.1524mm
>
> Minimum Hole Diameter: 0.3mm
>
> Standard Lead Time: 5 - 7 business days
>
>
> Free airmail shipping with tracking no. includet
> We send to USA, Canada and most countries in Europe.
>
>
>

RE: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Dave McLaughlin

Hi Zack,
 
Just a quick one. 2 layer boards are the same as double sided.!  :o)
 
I am working on a design that is 6 layer just now. My first beyond 4 and
have to learn high speed design. It is Cortex A8 based.
 
I found a really interesting article from Bluechip Technology on this very
subject but it is related to use with Altium Designer (which luckily I have)
 
It is interesting to see how much more thought has to go into PCB design
once you start dealing with high frequency and strict timing on processor
bus lines etc. Have only ever worked with microcontrollers such as AVR and
PIC etc, this is quite a challenge but one I am enjoying the learning
exercise as a hobby. As I progress and get it all working I can take this
over to my workplace.
 
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Zack Widup
Sent: 27 May 2011 11:37
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
 
  
I have never made two-layer boards but I have made many double-sided
boards myself. I'm not set up to mass-produce boards but I can usually
make 3 or 4 at a time with no problem.

I made some boards for 47 and 78 GHz (millimeter-wave) ham radio
projects. The tiny circuits are etched on 5-mil thick Duroid
teflon-fiberglass board. I used some HSCH9251 "flip-chip" diodes.
These have packages about 10 mils square, and with leads the devices
are about 28 mils long. The leads are a few mils wide. They look like
fly specks. You can't solder them; there are two common ways of
mounting them - wirebonding and with conductive silver-epoxy such as
Epotek H20e. I use the silver epoxy.

Zack




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Dave McLaughlin

Oops. Forgot to link to the design file.
 
http://www.bluechiptechnology.co.uk/~bluedownloads/Single_Board_Computers/Hi
SpeedDesignTutorialforAltiumDesigner.pdf
 
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Dave McLaughlin
Sent: 27 May 2011 11:51
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
 
  
Hi Zack,

I found a really interesting article from Bluechip Technology on this very
subject but it is related to use with Altium Designer (which luckily I have)


Dave...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Mike Payson

If you can deal with a small board (>2" square), Seeed or Itead are really
tough to beat. $10 + $3 shipping for 10 boards-- including double sided
silkscreens and solder masks. You can go to a 4x4" board for $25 + $4
shipping from either company as well. I have ordered from both, and I can
tell you their shipping is slow, but otherwise the service is great. I
ordered my last board from Itead and it shipped within 5 days, but it took
18 days to arrive from China.

Both Seeed and Itead offer higher speed shipping, but for some reason
Iteadstudio charges about $10 less for DHL ($25 vs $35), at least for the
5x5cm (2") boards. Seeed also seems a bit slower to first ship the board, so
in spite of the nicer website, my current preference is Itead, but both
should be fine.

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have never made two-layer boards but I have made many double-sided
> boards myself. I'm not set up to mass-produce boards but I can usually
> make 3 or 4 at a time with no problem.
>
> I made some boards for 47 and 78 GHz (millimeter-wave) ham radio
> projects. The tiny circuits are etched on 5-mil thick Duroid
> teflon-fiberglass board. I used some HSCH9251 "flip-chip" diodes.
> These have packages about 10 mils square, and with leads the devices
> are about 28 mils long. The leads are a few mils wide. They look like
> fly specks. You can't solder them; there are two common ways of
> mounting them - wirebonding and with conductive silver-epoxy such as
> Epotek H20e. I use the silver epoxy.
>
> Zack
>
> On 5/13/11, Hakon Gudmundsson <h_instruments@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If you need a PCB board of your design try H-Instruments:
> >
> > Get 5 pcs of your PCB boards. 5 indentical boards.
> > 2 layers. Any size less than 100x100mm only 59.95$ with shipping
> > Any size less than 50x50mm only 29.95 $ with free shipping
> >
> > See: http://www.h-instruments.com or
> http://www.h-instruments.ecrater.com
> >
> > We accept Gerber files in RS-274X Format.
> > Gerber files should contain following layers:
> > - Gerber Board Outline
> > - Gerber Bottom Layer
> > - Gerber Top Layer
> > - Gerber Bottom Solder Resist
> > - Gerber Top Solder Resist
> > - Gerber Bottom Overlay
> > - Gerber Top Overlay
> > - Gerber Bottom Paste
> > - Gerber Top Paste
> > Spec:
> > Files Types: Gerber 274-X, 274 and Aperture file
> >
> > Material: FR - 4
> >
> > Layer Count: 2
> >
> > Maximum Panel Size: 100mm x 100mm
> >
> > Board Size Tolerance: +/- 0.2mm
> >
> > Board Thickness: 1.6 mm
> >
> > Board Thickless Tolerance: +/- 10%
> >
> > Minimum Line Width and Spacing: 0.1524mm
> >
> > Minimum Hole Diameter: 0.3mm
> >
> > Standard Lead Time: 5 - 7 business days
> >
> >
> > Free airmail shipping with tracking no. includet
> > We send to USA, Canada and most countries in Europe.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Mike Payson

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:57 PM, Dave McLaughlin <
dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:

> Oops. Forgot to link to the design file.
>
>
> http://www.bluechiptechnology.co.uk/~bluedownloads/Single_Board_Computers/Hi
> SpeedDesignTutorialforAltiumDesigner.pdf
>
>
Man, Altium looks nice. Wish they offered a free version for home use!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Dave McLaughlin

Hi Mike,
 
Yeah, this is something we have been asking them to consider with limited
design capacity like a lot of software out there.
 
This would introduce a lot more people to it and I am sure increase their
sales at the end of the day.
 
I particularly like the 3D features which make integration with the
mechanical designs a breeze. I can design the PCB and position the
connectors etc and know that when I build the board, the holes will line up.
So far since I have used these features I have not had a single design where
the holes had to be filed.! Great for the occasion small runs where you
don't bother with a first prototype.
 
The only good thing is that if you work for a company who has Altium and you
use it there, you can install it on your own PC and use it at home. The way
this works is that you can only use it in one place at a time so if you was
at home, you can't be at work.
 
Dave...
---
Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
---
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Payson
Sent: 27 May 2011 12:03
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
 
Man, Altium looks nice. Wish they offered a free version for home use!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: 0402 parts

2011-05-27 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Dave McLaughlin" <dave_mclaughlin@...> wrote:

> ... Graham ... have you considered some
> of the low cost prototype stencil offers
> that are now being made ... ?

Short answer, no.

My customers have a habit of delaying approval until the project can no longer be done by the required date.  As a result, on a paid project, I don't have the luxury of off-shore prototypes.  Usually, I use PCB Fab Express.  Either I pony up for a laser-cut stainless steel prototype (frameless) stencil from another source or I avoid parts that require a stencil.

I can handle 0.5mm pitch FPC connectors and ICs using the established process of depositing a thin continuous bead of solder paste across all the pads and removing bridges, if necessary, with de-soldering braid after reflow.

QFN devices I avoid entirely.  The first time I used them (with a stencil) they lifted up at a slight angle, perhaps due to outgassing of flux in the solderpaste on the die pad, and so the connections did not all solder.  Of course, once this has happened, it is not possible to correct it by hand.  Basically, I have lost my nerve.  I am waiting for an opportunity to piggy-back another attempt onto some other job that needs a stencil.

Regarding other stencil materials, for example, mylar, the laser raises a burr that in my opinion makes them unusable for fine pitch work.

Graham.

Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Mike Payson <mike@...> wrote:
>
> ... the CEO ... [of EzPCB] gave me
> some ... technical advice regarding
> the use of 0402 components ... (put
> succinctly, don't do it unless you
> know what you are doing).

Might this advice benefit the group?  Or, is it too complicated to post?  What does he mean by "know[ing] what you are doing"?

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Leon Heller

On 27/05/2011 13:28, ecros_technology wrote:
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Mike Payson<mike@...>  wrote:
>>
>> ... the CEO ... [of EzPCB] gave me
>> some ... technical advice regarding
>> the use of 0402 components ... (put
>> succinctly, don't do it unless you
>> know what you are doing).
>
> Might this advice benefit the group?  Or, is it too complicated to post?  What does he mean by "know[ing] what you are doing"?

I don't think that I'd have any problems with them. I'd hand-solder them 
with my Metcal soldering station and stereo microscope.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Zack Widup

Whoops, guess I was thinking of three-layer boards.
:-)

On most of my AVR projects I try to keep most of the traces on one side and
mostly a ground plane on the other. I can't do plated-through holes.

Microcontrollers haven't gotten fast enough yet where you need to use
microwave substrates like Duroid or Takonics.

Zack


On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Dave McLaughlin <
dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Zack,
>
> Just a quick one. 2 layer boards are the same as double sided.! :o)
>
> I am working on a design that is 6 layer just now. My first beyond 4 and
> have to learn high speed design. It is Cortex A8 based.
>
> I found a really interesting article from Bluechip Technology on this very
> subject but it is related to use with Altium Designer (which luckily I
> have)
>
> It is interesting to see how much more thought has to go into PCB design
> once you start dealing with high frequency and strict timing on processor
> bus lines etc. Have only ever worked with microcontrollers such as AVR and
> PIC etc, this is quite a challenge but one I am enjoying the learning
> exercise as a hobby. As I progress and get it all working I can take this
> over to my workplace.
>
>
>
> Dave...
> ---
> Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!!!
> ---
>
> From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Zack Widup
> Sent: 27 May 2011 11:37
>
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made
>
>
>
> I have never made two-layer boards but I have made many double-sided
> boards myself. I'm not set up to mass-produce boards but I can usually
> make 3 or 4 at a time with no problem.
>
> I made some boards for 47 and 78 GHz (millimeter-wave) ham radio
> projects. The tiny circuits are etched on 5-mil thick Duroid
> teflon-fiberglass board. I used some HSCH9251 "flip-chip" diodes.
> These have packages about 10 mils square, and with leads the devices
> are about 28 mils long. The leads are a few mils wide. They look like
> fly specks. You can't solder them; there are two common ways of
> mounting them - wirebonding and with conductive silver-epoxy such as
> Epotek H20e. I use the silver epoxy.
>
> Zack
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Cheap 2 layer prototype PCB boards - custom made

2011-05-27 by Mike Payson

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:28 AM, ecros_technology
<Yahoo37849@ecrostech.com>wrote:

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Mike Payson <mike@...> wrote:
> >
> > ... the CEO ... [of EzPCB] gave me
> > some ... technical advice regarding
> > the use of 0402 components ... (put
> > succinctly, don't do it unless you
> > know what you are doing).
>
> Might this advice benefit the group?  Or, is it too complicated to post?
>  What does he mean by "know[ing] what you are doing"?


That was my paraphrasing. Here is his actual comment:


> I don't know what is your project for. If it's a serious product, the board
> must be soldered with machine if there're 0402 on it. For DIY projects, we
> don't suggest 0402 because it's not reliable when soldered manually. I don't
> think you'll like to make a stencil for a DIY project.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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