Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Upon purchasing my DTXPRESS II system over a year ago, I immediately 
knew I wanted to upgrade the hi-hat pad.  I wanted a more natural 
looking and feeling cymbal, so I chose to purchase a Pintech Zenbal 
Hi-hat cymbal.

It's been disappointing.  First off, without any module modification, 
the zenbal cymbal carried very low volume.  For months I've been 
modifying the settings to get it to play loud.  I just can't push the 
module any higher.  I can't get adequate volume out of the cymbal.  
On top of that, simultaneous hits with the snare and the hi-hat 
eliminate the hi-hat strikes.  This has bummed me out.  I again have 
modified the rejection settings on the module but can't keep it from 
continuing.  I'm out of ideas unless someone out there has a similar 
setup and has it working well.  Please let me know your tricks if 
you're out there.

This foul path has led me to some conclusions that may or may not be 
entirely true.  My first thought is that mixing drum components from 
different manufacturers is tricky and troublesome.  My second thought 
is, naturally, it is better in my case to use a Yamaha-based product 
to ensure compatability.  So if that is true, what Yamaha pad is the 
right pad for me?

That has led me to research the RHH130 pad now included in the 
DTXPRESS III.  It has the right "Look."  But I have these questions:

1) Is this pad compatable with the DTXPRESS II module?  Will I have 
volume issues?

2)  How does this pad work?  The write-ups on the web say it attaches 
to a standard hi-hat cymbal stand (which I have, albeit an old one).  
How does a standard hi-hat stand peddle manipulate this pad?  Is the 
pad split into two parts are the top and the upper and bottom halves 
trigger the pedal activity?  What happens to my current hi-hat 
pedal?  I assume that's not used anymore.

Thanks for any helpful responses in advance!

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jggallow" <jggallow@y...> wrote:
> It's been disappointing.  First off, without any module 
modification, 
> the zenbal cymbal carried very low volume.  For months I've been 
> modifying the settings to get it to play loud.  I just can't push 
the 
> module any higher.  I can't get adequate volume out of the cymbal.  
> On top of that, simultaneous hits with the snare and the hi-hat 
> eliminate the hi-hat strikes.  This has bummed me out.  I again 
have 
> modified the rejection settings on the module but can't keep it 
from 
> continuing.  I'm out of ideas unless someone out there has a 
similar 
> setup and has it working well.  Please let me know your tricks if 
> you're out there.

The problem of the snare cancelling the hi hat entailed a flaw in the 
specific rejection setting out of the box when the II came out. If 
I'm not mistaken, we discovered it on this board and called Yamaha's 
attention to it. It wouldn't have mattered whether the hi hat 
component were a Yamaha or any other company's, since the problem was 
with the module. Your difficulty seems too similar for coincidence, 
though you've presumably had yours long enough to have rectified it 
in the usual way. 
 
> This foul path has led me to some conclusions that may or may not 
be 
> entirely true.  My first thought is that mixing drum components 
from 
> different manufacturers is tricky and troublesome.  

This idea has more merit with mixing/matching on a Yamaha base than 
on any other company's. Most after-market e-drum gear is 
manufactured, first and foremost, to be compatible with Roland's. 
Most of the time, use with Yamaha gear won't be a total failure, 
although it has been at times, but perfect compatibility with Yamaha 
has been elusive enough at least to cause inconvenience. Pintech has 
always been one of the brands most adaptable to a Yamaha context. 

> My second thought is, naturally, it is better in my case to use a 
Yamaha-based product 
> to ensure compatability.  So if that is true, what Yamaha pad is 
the 
> right pad for me?
> 
> That has led me to research the RHH130 pad now included in the 
> DTXPRESS III.  It has the right "Look."  But I have these questions:
> 
> 1) Is this pad compatable with the DTXPRESS II module?  Will I have 
> volume issues?
> 
> 2)  How does this pad work?  The write-ups on the web say it 
attaches 
> to a standard hi-hat cymbal stand (which I have, albeit an old 
one).  
> How does a standard hi-hat stand peddle manipulate this pad?  Is 
the 
> pad split into two parts are the top and the upper and bottom 
halves 
> trigger the pedal activity?  What happens to my current hi-hat 
> pedal?  I assume that's not used anymore.

Staying within the Yamaha camp is safest, unless you have good 
information or personal experience otherwise. The RHH130 is 
compatible with the II. I don't know of any volume issues. It 
connects and behaves like your HH65. Most hi hat stands appear to 
accommodate it; it just needs proper room to clamp. The pad itself is 
stationary on the hi hat stand; it does not work like an acoustic hi 
hat, with two cymbals that open aand close. Since you use the stand 
for the foot action, your current HH65 would go to pasture, ebay, 
another board member, or perhaps to another input as a second kick 
pedal.

Ed

Thanks for the response.  I have some follow-ups:

I don't recall having any cancelling issues with the snare and hi-
hat when I used the stock TP65 pad that came with the kit.  I've 
only noticed it with since I changed to the Pintech zenbal.  Was 
this problem with the module noticible only when other 
manufacturer's components were mixed with the kit?  Also, was there 
ever a fix or patch for the "flaw"?  I really would like to find a 
solution to my current problem and not have to buy another cymbal.  
I actually like the Pintech cymbal; I just hate the low volume and 
the cancelling with simultaneous snare hits.  That's a show-stopper 
in my book!

Still a little confused on the RHH130 and the stand integration.  My 
question is how does the standard hi-hat stand pedal manipulate the 
hi-hat closing/opening sound?  what is the pedal action physically 
doing to the cymbal?  If I were to start tapping out a beat 
with the hi-hat peddle, how does that register a sound since there 
is no more hi-hat foot controller pedal that pugged into the 
module.  I assume that connection actually connects somewhere into 
the RHH130 itself (I presume the RHH130 has two cable connections 
then).  Is this correct.  If you could please describe how it 
connects.



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jggallow" <jggallow@y...> wrote:
> > It's been disappointing.  First off, without any module 
> modification, 
> > the zenbal cymbal carried very low volume.  For months I've been 
> > modifying the settings to get it to play loud.  I just can't 
push 
> the 
> > module any higher.  I can't get adequate volume out of the 
cymbal.  
> > On top of that, simultaneous hits with the snare and the hi-hat 
> > eliminate the hi-hat strikes.  This has bummed me out.  I again 
> have 
> > modified the rejection settings on the module but can't keep it 
> from 
> > continuing.  I'm out of ideas unless someone out there has a 
> similar 
> > setup and has it working well.  Please let me know your tricks 
if 
> > you're out there.
> 
> The problem of the snare cancelling the hi hat entailed a flaw in 
the 
> specific rejection setting out of the box when the II came out. If 
> I'm not mistaken, we discovered it on this board and called 
Yamaha's 
> attention to it. It wouldn't have mattered whether the hi hat 
> component were a Yamaha or any other company's, since the problem 
was 
> with the module. Your difficulty seems too similar for 
coincidence, 
> though you've presumably had yours long enough to have rectified 
it 
> in the usual way. 
>  
> > This foul path has led me to some conclusions that may or may 
not 
> be 
> > entirely true.  My first thought is that mixing drum components 
> from 
> > different manufacturers is tricky and troublesome.  
> 
> This idea has more merit with mixing/matching on a Yamaha base 
than 
> on any other company's. Most after-market e-drum gear is 
> manufactured, first and foremost, to be compatible with Roland's. 
> Most of the time, use with Yamaha gear won't be a total failure, 
> although it has been at times, but perfect compatibility with 
Yamaha 
> has been elusive enough at least to cause inconvenience. Pintech 
has 
> always been one of the brands most adaptable to a Yamaha context. 
> 
> > My second thought is, naturally, it is better in my case to use 
a 
> Yamaha-based product 
> > to ensure compatability.  So if that is true, what Yamaha pad is 
> the 
> > right pad for me?
> > 
> > That has led me to research the RHH130 pad now included in the 
> > DTXPRESS III.  It has the right "Look."  But I have these 
questions:
> > 
> > 1) Is this pad compatable with the DTXPRESS II module?  Will I 
have 
> > volume issues?
> > 
> > 2)  How does this pad work?  The write-ups on the web say it 
> attaches 
> > to a standard hi-hat cymbal stand (which I have, albeit an old 
> one).  
> > How does a standard hi-hat stand peddle manipulate this pad?  Is 
> the 
> > pad split into two parts are the top and the upper and bottom 
> halves 
> > trigger the pedal activity?  What happens to my current hi-hat 
> > pedal?  I assume that's not used anymore.
> 
> Staying within the Yamaha camp is safest, unless you have good 
> information or personal experience otherwise. The RHH130 is 
> compatible with the II. I don't know of any volume issues. It 
> connects and behaves like your HH65. Most hi hat stands appear to 
> accommodate it; it just needs proper room to clamp. The pad itself 
is 
> stationary on the hi hat stand; it does not work like an acoustic 
hi 
> hat, with two cymbals that open aand close. Since you use the 
stand 

> for the foot action, your current HH65 would go to pasture, ebay, 
> another board member, or perhaps to another input as a second kick 
> pedal.
> 
> Ed

The canceling issue was not really a flawed design issue. Each of the
pads on the rack are nearer or farther from the other pads. The farther
away and the mounting on different sections of the rack tubing, reduces
the vibration between pads. So typically Yamaha setup the rejection
settings and specific rejection settings based on what would generally
work in most cases. If you are a heavy hitter, you are going have more
problems right of the bat than someone who is a light hitter. The issue
with the snare and the hihat is that they are mounted on the same rack
tube that is only supported from one end and it thus more subject to
excess vibration. With the TP65 hihat pad and the TP65S snare pad on the
same rack tube the specific rejection settings were set higher between
the two pads, so that hitting one pad would not trigger the other pad.
They showed an alternate mounting location for heavy hitters of putting
the TP65 Hihat pad on the tube with the module. This gives ample
isolation and lets you reduce the rejection settings. 
 
Since you Pintech zenbal is producing a lower sound level, you are
probably trying to make up for it by hitting it harder than you were
hitting the TP65 pad. Thus you are have a interference problem. You
could move the zenbal to the module rack tube, if possible and then you
could reduce the rejection settings to eliminate the cancellation
problems. 
 
As far as the volume level of the zenbal, unfortunately, there are only
input attenuation switches for inputs 1 through 6 on the back of the
module. Also, I not sure where the peizo on it is located. On the Yamaha
cymbal pads it is located on the underside of the pad from where you hit
it. If is located on the opposite side of the cymbal for the zenbal, you
will get a lower level of triggering. If this is the case, what would
happen if you rotated the zenbal so the Peizo was closer to you. Do you
still get a lower level?
 
As far as the RHH130, look in the photo archive under "Inside the
dtxpress" under the "RHH130" for the photos I took of mine taken apart.
The center rod that moves up and down holds a heavy weighted disk that
moves up and down on a rubber rocker pad. That pad presses down on a FSR
ribbon. This the same principle that is being used on the HH65, it just
has been moved from under the foot pedal to inside the cymbal pad.
 
OGD

________________________________

From: jggallow Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 3:03 PM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: RHH130 Hi-hat upgrade for DTXPRESS II



Thanks for the response.  I have some follow-ups:

I don't recall having any cancelling issues with the snare and hi-
hat when I used the stock TP65 pad that came with the kit.  I've 
only noticed it with since I changed to the Pintech zenbal.  Was 
this problem with the module noticible only when other 
manufacturer's components were mixed with the kit?  Also, was there 
ever a fix or patch for the "flaw"?  I really would like to find a 
solution to my current problem and not have to buy another cymbal.  
I actually like the Pintech cymbal; I just hate the low volume and 
the cancelling with simultaneous snare hits.  That's a show-stopper 
in my book!

Still a little confused on the RHH130 and the stand integration.  My 
question is how does the standard hi-hat stand pedal manipulate the 
hi-hat closing/opening sound?  what is the pedal action physically 
doing to the cymbal?  If I were to start tapping out a beat 
with the hi-hat peddle, how does that register a sound since there 
is no more hi-hat foot controller pedal that pugged into the 
module.  I assume that connection actually connects somewhere into 
the RHH130 itself (I presume the RHH130 has two cable connections 
then).  Is this correct.  If you could please describe how it 
connects.



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jggallow" <jggallow@y...> wrote:
> > It's been disappointing.  First off, without any module 
> modification, 
> > the zenbal cymbal carried very low volume.  For months I've been 
> > modifying the settings to get it to play loud.  I just can't 
push 
> the 
> > module any higher.  I can't get adequate volume out of the 
cymbal.  
> > On top of that, simultaneous hits with the snare and the hi-hat 
> > eliminate the hi-hat strikes.  This has bummed me out.  I again 
> have 
> > modified the rejection settings on the module but can't keep it 
> from 
> > continuing.  I'm out of ideas unless someone out there has a 
> similar 
> > setup and has it working well.  Please let me know your tricks 
if 
> > you're out there.
> 
> The problem of the snare cancelling the hi hat entailed a flaw in 
the 
> specific rejection setting out of the box when the II came out. If 
> I'm not mistaken, we discovered it on this board and called 
Yamaha's 
> attention to it. It wouldn't have mattered whether the hi hat 
> component were a Yamaha or any other company's, since the problem 
was 
> with the module. Your difficulty seems too similar for 
coincidence, 
> though you've presumably had yours long enough to have rectified 
it 
> in the usual way. 
>  
> > This foul path has led me to some conclusions that may or may 
not 
> be 
> > entirely true.  My first thought is that mixing drum components 
> from 
> > different manufacturers is tricky and troublesome.  
> 
> This idea has more merit with mixing/matching on a Yamaha base 
than 
> on any other company's. Most after-market e-drum gear is 
> manufactured, first and foremost, to be compatible with Roland's. 
> Most of the time, use with Yamaha gear won't be a total failure, 
> although it has been at times, but perfect compatibility with 
Yamaha 
> has been elusive enough at least to cause inconvenience. Pintech 
has 
> always been one of the brands most adaptable to a Yamaha context. 
> 
> > My second thought is, naturally, it is better in my case to use 
a 
> Yamaha-based product 
> > to ensure compatability.  So if that is true, what Yamaha pad is 
> the 
> > right pad for me?
> > 
> > That has led me to research the RHH130 pad now included in the 
> > DTXPRESS III.  It has the right "Look."  But I have these 
questions:
> > 
> > 1) Is this pad compatable with the DTXPRESS II module?  Will I 
have 
> > volume issues?
> > 
> > 2)  How does this pad work?  The write-ups on the web say it 
> attaches 
> > to a standard hi-hat cymbal stand (which I have, albeit an old 
> one).  
> > How does a standard hi-hat stand peddle manipulate this pad?  Is 
> the 
> > pad split into two parts are the top and the upper and bottom 
> halves 
> > trigger the pedal activity?  What happens to my current hi-hat 
> > pedal?  I assume that's not used anymore.
> 
> Staying within the Yamaha camp is safest, unless you have good 
> information or personal experience otherwise. The RHH130 is 
> compatible with the II. I don't know of any volume issues. It 
> connects and behaves like your HH65. Most hi hat stands appear to 
> accommodate it; it just needs proper room to clamp. The pad itself 
is 
> stationary on the hi hat stand; it does not work like an acoustic 
hi 
> hat, with two cymbals that open aand close. Since you use the 
stand 
> for the foot action, your current HH65 would go to pasture, ebay, 
> another board member, or perhaps to another input as a second kick 
> pedal.
> 
> Ed





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