Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hello,

I'm very interested in buying a DS9XP set and was
wondering if this was a good choice.  I've read
practically everything in this list - you guys are
great and very informative.  I can't wait to get my
hands on my very own and have some fun.  I'm planning
on still using my acoustic set for live stuff and for
some practicing.  I plan on using DTXpress for both
purposes, too.

Does this set have cymbal choke function?  That would
be very nice.  Also, how do you layer 2 voices on 1
pad, like a bell sound and a ride sound?  If you have
any advice for me let me know.

The best price that I've found is $979.99 and that's
at http://www.contois.com (thanks to you guys for the
addy.)  I was also wondering if anybody knows of a
place to find it even cheaper.

Thanks very much for all you do.  I love the
DTXpressions website!!!

doogy

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I have been using electronic kits for a few years. My current 
setup is an Alesis DM5 with a Pintech mesh pad kit with a Hart 
Accusnare, Visulite crash cymbals, Pintech CV hi-hat pedal (I also 
have a HatKat pedal). I have 4 outs which I have grouped as Kick, 
snare, cymbals, toms. The 4 outs go to 6 channel line mixer. The kick 
is panned left, the snare, cymbals and toms are panned right. Then I 
go into an Alesis stereo 32 band equalizer, a Behringer stereo 
compressor/ limiter, an Aphex stereo Aural Exciter and a Digitech 
Reverb. The kick which is on the left channel goes to a Tubeworks 
300watt bass amp to a Tubeworks 4x10 cabinet and the Snare, cymbals 
and toms which are on the right channel go to a Roland KC500 keyboard 
amp (150 watt, 4 line mixer amp, 15inch speaker and horn tweeter). 
Sometimes I use only the KC500 and sometimes the Tubeworks setup.
    I like the DM5 except for the HiHat. The HiHat sounds are so-so 
and you can either play the high hat closed or open. No inbetween 
half open sloshy if you open the high hat a little. 
    I found a used DTXpress module on ebay and I paid $182.50 for it. 
Was this a good price? I especially liked the integrated song 
feature, the metronome feature and the onboard midi recording 
features which the DM5 does not have.  Does anyone have any advice 
for setting up the kit? 

Claudio Ortiz

Hi Claudio,

Actually, a good price for a used dtxpress module these days would 
be about $10-$20--just kidding. The $182.50 is the lowest price that 
I've seen yet, and I'm not just saying that because you bought it 
from my best friend in the whole world (no, not me). 

Your kit sounds wonderful. The dtxpress module surpasses the Alesis 
in hh capability; with the right controller, you get open, closed, 
and everything in between. If you're planning on using the Pintech 
with it, you may have to get an adapter. Drumbalaya sells it. Also, 
I've heard reports that the Acusnare may not work at its best 
through Yamaha electronics. We'd be eager to get your perspective on 
it. 

It seems like you won't need much help with creating the module's 
environment. I'm particularly intrigued by he Tubeworks bass amp. Is 
it in fact a tube amp? That would be interesting. Tubes have a 
checkered history with bass frequencies, though from the wattage, 
it's probably a solid state. Anyway, give us a holler if you run 
into any difficulties or have observations to make. As Ross Perot 
said, we're all ears. 

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Ortiz <MrPhoney@a...>" 
<MrPhoney@a...> wrote:
>      I have been using electronic kits for a few years. My current 
> setup is an Alesis DM5 with a Pintech mesh pad kit with a Hart 
> Accusnare, Visulite crash cymbals, Pintech CV hi-hat pedal (I also 
> have a HatKat pedal). I have 4 outs which I have grouped as Kick, 
> snare, cymbals, toms. The 4 outs go to 6 channel line mixer. The 
kick 
> is panned left, the snare, cymbals and toms are panned right. Then 
I 
> go into an Alesis stereo 32 band equalizer, a Behringer stereo 
> compressor/ limiter, an Aphex stereo Aural Exciter and a Digitech 
> Reverb. The kick which is on the left channel goes to a Tubeworks 
> 300watt bass amp to a Tubeworks 4x10 cabinet and the Snare, 
cymbals 
> and toms which are on the right channel go to a Roland KC500 
keyboard 
> amp (150 watt, 4 line mixer amp, 15inch speaker and horn tweeter). 
> Sometimes I use only the KC500 and sometimes the Tubeworks setup.
>     I like the DM5 except for the HiHat. The HiHat sounds are so-
so 
> and you can either play the high hat closed or open. No inbetween 
> half open sloshy if you open the high hat a little. 
>     I found a used DTXpress module on ebay and I paid $182.50 for 
it. 

> Was this a good price? I especially liked the integrated song 
> feature, the metronome feature and the onboard midi recording 
> features which the DM5 does not have.  Does anyone have any advice 
> for setting up the kit? 
> 
> Claudio Ortiz

http://hartdynamics.com/products/ecymbal/index.html


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Thanks for the reply. I believe that the HatKat will work. It has 
3 inputs Trigger, Switch and Control. I will let you know about the 
Accusnare. The response on it is phenomenal. Buzz rolls, double 
strokes, dynamics are fantastic. Much better than the pintech mesh 
pad or a rubber pad. I read that the Snare output on the DTXpress is 
for a membrane type pad, that you should use output 9/10 for a non-
membrane type pad/trigger. 
    The TubeWorks bass head has a Tube/F.E.T switch. I don't know if 
it emulates tubes or if it has tubes. All I can say is that it takes 
2 rack spaces and is HEAVY.
    If the DTXpress is as nice as I think it is, I will use it for my 
main kit and the DM5 for percussion and effects with a Hart Pad.
    By the way. Try an Aphex Aural Exciter w/Big Bottom.
Claudio Ortiz

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
<liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> Hi Claudio,
> 
> Actually, a good price for a used dtxpress module these days would 
> be about $10-$20--just kidding. The $182.50 is the lowest price 
that 
> I've seen yet, and I'm not just saying that because you bought it 
> from my best friend in the whole world (no, not me). 
> 
> Your kit sounds wonderful. The dtxpress module surpasses the Alesis 
> in hh capability; with the right controller, you get open, closed, 
> and everything in between. If you're planning on using the Pintech 
> with it, you may have to get an adapter. Drumbalaya sells it. Also, 
> I've heard reports that the Acusnare may not work at its best 
> through Yamaha electronics. We'd be eager to get your perspective 
on 
> it. 
> 
> It seems like you won't need much help with creating the module's 
> environment. I'm particularly intrigued by he Tubeworks bass amp. 
Is 
> it in fact a tube amp? That would be interesting. Tubes have a 
> checkered history with bass frequencies, though from the wattage, 
> it's probably a solid state. Anyway, give us a holler if you run 
> into any difficulties or have observations to make. As Ross Perot 
> said, we're all ears. 
> 
> Ed
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Ortiz <MrPhoney@a...>" 
> <MrPhoney@a...> wrote:
> >      I have been using electronic kits for a few years. My 
current 
> > setup is an Alesis DM5 with a Pintech mesh pad kit with a Hart 
> > Accusnare, Visulite crash cymbals, Pintech CV hi-hat pedal (I 
also 
> > have a HatKat pedal). I have 4 outs which I have grouped as Kick, 
> > snare, cymbals, toms. The 4 outs go to 6 channel line mixer. The 
> kick 
> > is panned left, the snare, cymbals and toms are panned right. 
Then 
> I 
> > go into an Alesis stereo 32 band equalizer, a Behringer stereo 
> > compressor/ limiter, an Aphex stereo Aural Exciter and a Digitech 
> > Reverb. The kick which is on the left channel goes to a Tubeworks 
> > 300watt bass amp to a Tubeworks 4x10 cabinet and the Snare, 
> cymbals 
> > and toms which are on the right channel go to a Roland KC500 
> keyboard 
> > amp (150 watt, 4 line mixer amp, 15inch speaker and horn 
tweeter). 
> > Sometimes I use only the KC500 and sometimes the Tubeworks setup.
> >     I like the DM5 except for the HiHat. The HiHat sounds are so-
> so 
> > and you can either play the high hat closed or open. No inbetween 
> > half open sloshy if you open the high hat a little. 
> >     I found a used DTXpress module on ebay and I paid $182.50 for 
> it. 
> > Was this a good price? I especially liked the integrated song 
> > feature, the metronome feature and the onboard midi recording 
> > features which the DM5 does not have.  Does anyone have any 
advice 

> > for setting up the kit? 
> > 
> > Claudio Ortiz

Aphex Aural Exciter w/Big Bottom? There's a joke there somewhere, 
but I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot colorectal surgeon. Yes, the 
snare input, like the others, is stereo, meaning that a dual-zone 
snare would have to go into 9/10 or take up two other inputs. The 
issue with the hh controller is mainly polarity; I don't know if the 
Kat will work w/o adaptor. As for tube/FET switch, compare them; the 
tubbier, less defined bass sound may well be from tubes.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Ortiz <MrPhoney@a...>" 
<MrPhoney@a...> wrote:
>     Thanks for the reply. I believe that the HatKat will work. It 
has 
> 3 inputs Trigger, Switch and Control. I will let you know about 
the 
> Accusnare. The response on it is phenomenal. Buzz rolls, double 
> strokes, dynamics are fantastic. Much better than the pintech mesh 
> pad or a rubber pad. I read that the Snare output on the DTXpress 
is 
> for a membrane type pad, that you should use output 9/10 for a non-
> membrane type pad/trigger. 
>     The TubeWorks bass head has a Tube/F.E.T switch. I don't know 
if 
> it emulates tubes or if it has tubes. All I can say is that it 
takes 
> 2 rack spaces and is HEAVY.
>     If the DTXpress is as nice as I think it is, I will use it for 
my 
> main kit and the DM5 for percussion and effects with a Hart Pad.
>     By the way. Try an Aphex Aural Exciter w/Big Bottom.
> Claudio Ortiz
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
> <liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Claudio,
> > 
> > Actually, a good price for a used dtxpress module these days 
would 
> > be about $10-$20--just kidding. The $182.50 is the lowest price 
> that 
> > I've seen yet, and I'm not just saying that because you bought 
it 
> > from my best friend in the whole world (no, not me). 
> > 
> > Your kit sounds wonderful. The dtxpress module surpasses the 
Alesis 
> > in hh capability; with the right controller, you get open, 
closed, 
> > and everything in between. If you're planning on using the 
Pintech 
> > with it, you may have to get an adapter. Drumbalaya sells it. 
Also, 
> > I've heard reports that the Acusnare may not work at its best 
> > through Yamaha electronics. We'd be eager to get your 
perspective 
> on 
> > it. 
> > 
> > It seems like you won't need much help with creating the 
module's 
> > environment. I'm particularly intrigued by he Tubeworks bass 
amp. 
> Is 
> > it in fact a tube amp? That would be interesting. Tubes have a 
> > checkered history with bass frequencies, though from the 
wattage, 
> > it's probably a solid state. Anyway, give us a holler if you run 
> > into any difficulties or have observations to make. As Ross 
Perot 
> > said, we're all ears. 
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Ortiz <MrPhoney@a...>" 
> > <MrPhoney@a...> wrote:
> > >      I have been using electronic kits for a few years. My 
> current 
> > > setup is an Alesis DM5 with a Pintech mesh pad kit with a Hart 
> > > Accusnare, Visulite crash cymbals, Pintech CV hi-hat pedal (I 
> also 
> > > have a HatKat pedal). I have 4 outs which I have grouped as 
Kick, 
> > > snare, cymbals, toms. The 4 outs go to 6 channel line mixer. 
The 
> > kick 
> > > is panned left, the snare, cymbals and toms are panned right. 
> Then 
> > I 
> > > go into an Alesis stereo 32 band equalizer, a Behringer stereo 
> > > compressor/ limiter, an Aphex stereo Aural Exciter and a 
Digitech 
> > > Reverb. The kick which is on the left channel goes to a 
Tubeworks 
> > > 300watt bass amp to a Tubeworks 4x10 cabinet and the Snare, 
> > cymbals 
> > > and toms which are on the right channel go to a Roland KC500 
> > keyboard 
> > > amp (150 watt, 4 line mixer amp, 15inch speaker and horn 
> tweeter). 
> > > Sometimes I use only the KC500 and sometimes the Tubeworks 
setup.
> > >     I like the DM5 except for the HiHat. The HiHat sounds are 
so-
> > so 
> > > and you can either play the high hat closed or open. No 
inbetween 
> > > half open sloshy if you open the high hat a little. 
> > >     I found a used DTXpress module on ebay and I paid $182.50 
for 

> > it. 
> > > Was this a good price? I especially liked the integrated song 
> > > feature, the metronome feature and the onboard midi recording 
> > > features which the DM5 does not have.  Does anyone have any 
> advice 
> > > for setting up the kit? 
> > > 
> > > Claudio Ortiz

Hi Claudio,

Your new xpress madule has had a FAT pedal hooked to
it before, and it does require an adapter to make it
work.  You also have to be careful where the adapter
goes - I believe it has to go to the MODULE end of the
cable, not at the pedal side of the cable.  The
adapter was around $10 when I got it, but as Ed
mentioned, Drumbalaya carries them too.  Welcome to
the group...Walt
--- "liberatusvirus <liberatusvirus@...>"
<liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
> Aphex Aural Exciter w/Big Bottom? There's a joke
> there somewhere, 
> but I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot colorectal
> surgeon. Yes, the 
> snare input, like the others, is stereo, meaning
> that a dual-zone 
> snare would have to go into 9/10 or take up two
> other inputs. The 
> issue with the hh controller is mainly polarity; I
> don't know if the 
> Kat will work w/o adaptor. As for tube/FET switch,
> compare them; the 
> tubbier, less defined bass sound may well be from
> tubes.
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Ortiz
> <MrPhoney@a...>" 
> <MrPhoney@a...> wrote:
> >     Thanks for the reply. I believe that the
> HatKat will work. It 
> has 
> > 3 inputs Trigger, Switch and Control. I will let
> you know about 
> the 
> > Accusnare. The response on it is phenomenal. Buzz
> rolls, double 
> > strokes, dynamics are fantastic. Much better than
> the pintech mesh 
> > pad or a rubber pad. I read that the Snare output
> on the DTXpress 
> is 
> > for a membrane type pad, that you should use
> output 9/10 for a non-
> > membrane type pad/trigger. 
> >     The TubeWorks bass head has a Tube/F.E.T
> switch. I don't know 
> if 
> > it emulates tubes or if it has tubes. All I can
> say is that it 
> takes 
> > 2 rack spaces and is HEAVY.
> >     If the DTXpress is as nice as I think it is, I
> will use it for 
> my 
> > main kit and the DM5 for percussion and effects
> with a Hart Pad.
> >     By the way. Try an Aphex Aural Exciter w/Big
> Bottom.
> > Claudio Ortiz
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus 
> > <liberatusvirus@y...>" <liberatusvirus@y...>
> wrote:
> > > Hi Claudio,
> > > 
> > > Actually, a good price for a used dtxpress
> module these days 
> would 
> > > be about $10-$20--just kidding. The $182.50 is
> the lowest price 
> > that 
> > > I've seen yet, and I'm not just saying that
> because you bought 
> it 
> > > from my best friend in the whole world (no, not
> me). 
> > > 
> > > Your kit sounds wonderful. The dtxpress module
> surpasses the 
> Alesis 
> > > in hh capability; with the right controller, you
> get open, 
> closed, 
> > > and everything in between. If you're planning on
> using the 
> Pintech 
> > > with it, you may have to get an adapter.
> Drumbalaya sells it. 
> Also, 
> > > I've heard reports that the Acusnare may not
> work at its best 
> > > through Yamaha electronics. We'd be eager to get
> your 
> perspective 
> > on 
> > > it. 
> > > 
> > > It seems like you won't need much help with
> creating the 
> module's 
> > > environment. I'm particularly intrigued by he
> Tubeworks bass 
> amp. 
> > Is 
> > > it in fact a tube amp? That would be
> interesting. Tubes have a 
> > > checkered history with bass frequencies, though
> from the 
> wattage, 
> > > it's probably a solid state. Anyway, give us a
> holler if you run 
> > > into any difficulties or have observations to
> make. As Ross 
> Perot 
> > > said, we're all ears. 
> > > 
> > > Ed
> > > 
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Ortiz
> <MrPhoney@a...>" 
> > > <MrPhoney@a...> wrote:
> > > >      I have been using electronic kits for a
> few years. My 
> > current 
> > > > setup is an Alesis DM5 with a Pintech mesh pad
> kit with a Hart 
> > > > Accusnare, Visulite crash cymbals, Pintech CV
> hi-hat pedal (I 
> > also 
> > > > have a HatKat pedal). I have 4 outs which I
> have grouped as 
> Kick, 
> > > > snare, cymbals, toms. The 4 outs go to 6
> channel line mixer. 
> The 
> > > kick 
> > > > is panned left, the snare, cymbals and toms
> are panned right. 
> > Then 
> > > I 
> > > > go into an Alesis stereo 32 band equalizer, a
> Behringer stereo 
> > > > compressor/ limiter, an Aphex stereo Aural
> Exciter and a 
> Digitech 
> > > > Reverb. The kick which is on the left channel
> goes to a 
> Tubeworks 
> > > > 300watt bass amp to a Tubeworks 4x10 cabinet
> and the Snare, 
> > > cymbals 
> > > > and toms which are on the right channel go to
> a Roland KC500 
> > > keyboard 
> > > > amp (150 watt, 4 line mixer amp, 15inch
> speaker and horn 
> > tweeter). 
> > > > Sometimes I use only the KC500 and sometimes
> the Tubeworks 
> setup.
> > > >     I like the DM5 except for the HiHat. The
> HiHat sounds are 
> so-
> > > so 
> > > > and you can either play the high hat closed or
> open. No 
> inbetween 
> > > > half open sloshy if you open the high hat a
> little. 
> > > >     I found a used DTXpress module on ebay and
> I paid $182.50 
> for 
> > > it. 
> > > > Was this a good price? I especially liked the
> integrated song 
> > > > feature, the metronome feature and the onboard
> midi recording 
> > > > features which the DM5 does not have.  Does
> anyone have any 
> > advice 
> > > > for setting up the kit? 
> > > > 
> > > > Claudio Ortiz
> 
> 


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Hmmm.. :::the Skeptic in me jumps forward and grabs the keyboard:::! :)

I've have never been able to get anyone to explain to me what *exactly*
an Aphex Aural Exciter does (now if it was Oral exciter, I might begin to
guess :D). I've seen the product from BBE and I've talked to some of the
sales folks that sell them and some of the true-believers that use them,
but they always seem to use words that leave me queasy. Descriptive terms
such as "Punch", "Depth", "Penetration", "Presence". Nice words all, but
I don't know what type of a circuit gives "Presence"? How many "Presence
Units" per sq-inch does it add exactly? Is it measured in
"Mili-Presence", "Prese-watts?" or what? :) I understand EQ, compression,
limiters, gates, flanger, delay, distortion, clipping etc. But no one has
been able to tell just what the silly thing *does* without resorting to
these very subjective terms.

From descriptions of users/sales people, my best guess is that it does
some type of reverse-compression (bass freq between 50 and 90 hz that
comes in at +1 db is gained on a curve to increase the dynamic range of
bass, oposite of a compressor) or some type of psychic-acoustic phase
inversion weirdness (I'm also dubious on the ROI when giving money to a
psychic of any type!) So, in short, does anyone with an *electronics* or
*acoustic engineering* background have a decent explanation of what the
point of the module is, or it another example of the much-coveted Marshal
Amp that goes to "11"? :)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG


Claudio Ortiz said:
>    Try an Aphex Aural Exciter w/Big Bottom.
> Claudio Ortiz

Vern,

I have it on good authority that the band Spinal Tap used Aural 
Exciters w/Big Bottoms on the "Smell the Glove" tour. Sorry, I 
couldn't resist.

I can't comment on the credibility of this particular product, but I 
wonder if you're familiar with the high-end audio press, which 
flaunts observations in metaphorical language because nothing in 
objective, scientific language would appear to explain the sonic 
characteristics (putatively) heard. I'm a bit of a skeptic myself, 
but I have witnessed the differences between, say, two solid state 
preamps in the upper reaches of audiophilia that cannot easily be 
accounted for by specs. This is not to imply that charlatans don't 
exist, but scientific discourse does not always get the last word.

The proof, of this pudding at least, is that I can converse 
intelligibly with like-minded people about comparative audible 
signatures of electronic components that will not reduce to the 
script of mathematical measurement. In audio, unlike in the physics 
of cosmology or quanta, we at least have our ears and eyes to make 
intelligent discriminations that may surpass what may be 
respresented within the confines of a particular formal discipline. 

Anyway, I like to think that I can approach such things with an open 
mind. But if I can't perceive what I'm told is there, and I'm not 
convinced that the theory behind it is coherent and reasonable, it 
certainly doesn't have much of a leg left to stand on.

I ramble, but this is an interesting topic. I hope people respond.

Ed


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> Hmmm.. :::the Skeptic in me jumps forward and grabs the 
keyboard:::! :)
> 
> I've have never been able to get anyone to explain to me what 
*exactly*
> an Aphex Aural Exciter does (now if it was Oral exciter, I might 
begin to
> guess :D). I've seen the product from BBE and I've talked to some 
of the
> sales folks that sell them and some of the true-believers that use 
them,
> but they always seem to use words that leave me queasy. 
Descriptive terms
> such as "Punch", "Depth", "Penetration", "Presence". Nice words 
all, but
> I don't know what type of a circuit gives "Presence"? How 
many "Presence
> Units" per sq-inch does it add exactly? Is it measured in
> "Mili-Presence", "Prese-watts?" or what? :) I understand EQ, 
compression,
> limiters, gates, flanger, delay, distortion, clipping etc. But no 
one has
> been able to tell just what the silly thing *does* without 
resorting to
> these very subjective terms.
> 
> From descriptions of users/sales people, my best guess is that it 
does
> some type of reverse-compression (bass freq between 50 and 90 hz 
that
> comes in at +1 db is gained on a curve to increase the dynamic 
range of
> bass, oposite of a compressor) or some type of psychic-acoustic 
phase
> inversion weirdness (I'm also dubious on the ROI when giving money 
to a
> psychic of any type!) So, in short, does anyone with an 
*electronics* or
> *acoustic engineering* background have a decent explanation of 
what the
> point of the module is, or it another example of the much-coveted 
Marshal

> Amp that goes to "11"? :)
> 
> Vern
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> Claudio Ortiz said:
> >    Try an Aphex Aural Exciter w/Big Bottom.
> > Claudio Ortiz

If you want to call Pintech about the adapter to see whether they 
can send one out to you faster, the number is 1-800-445-0506 (864-
288-1500).


Ed


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, MrPhoney@a... wrote:
> I ordered the adapter from Drumbalaya. It cost 29.95 and is on 
backorder. 
> Scotty at drumbalaya mentioned that Pintech has an adapter but I 
couldn't 

> find it on their website. 
> 
> Claudio Ortiz

After I wrote that thing, I figured that I might have wiped out the 
whole board with boredom. Walt said it must have been too much 
caffeine; I think it may have been too little. 

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, MrPhoney@a... wrote:
> How's your career as a political speech writing going?

I dunno about bordom, but it seems relevant to this list if only because
the nuances of analog vs digital drums comes up so frequently. If the
Aural Exciter can put back what many musicians find lacking when
listening to a "real" drumset compared to an electronic drumset, than I'm
happy to entertain the discussion... :)

In the description first given (of the Aural Exciter), that the high
frequencies "fly" to your ear more quickly than the low frequencies,
isn't the speed of sound a set-in-steel constant? (well, except maybe for
barometric pressure or some such). I can't imagine why "highs" would
travel "faster" than lows... For example, if the marching band bass drum
is struck right when cymbals are crashed, on the other end of the field I
hear them *together*, I've never noticed an difference in speed between
highs and lows... Anyone care to comment?

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG



liberatusvirus said:

> After I wrote that thing, I figured that I might have wiped out the
> whole board with boredom. Walt said it must have been too much
> caffeine; I think it may have been too little.
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, MrPhoney@a... wrote:
>> How's your career as a political speech writing going?
>
>
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I quite enjoyed it actually!

And I might mention that I am an electronics engineer, do audio design and
high performance speaker design as a hobby. I almost don't want to get
started on the high-end esoteric "audiophile" equipment discussion -- it's one
that I've been involved in many many times over the past 20 years or so.

Suffice it to say there are "true believers" and nothing you do will change
their mind. My own (as unbiased as I can be) opinion is that audio has a lot
of psycho-acoustic elements and not everything one hears (which I believe is
different for every person -- after all they each have unique "transducers")
can be easily quantified or measured. But I also believe that every sound, 
coloration and nuance of reproduction and processing equipment can be explained.
Sometimes it's just not easy to do. As an old-time audio engineering saying goes,
"If you can't measure what you're hearing, you must not be measuring the right
thing!"

Oh yeah, there is a lot of "hooey" out there too!

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:09:44 -0000, liberatusvirus " \ufffd<liberatusvirus@...>\ufffdwrote:
>\ufffdAfter I wrote that thing, I figured that I might have wiped out the
>\ufffdwhole board with boredom. Walt said it must have been too much
>\ufffdcaffeine; I think it may have been too little.
>\ufffd

Well, okay, I guess I'm in. Matt may be more qualified for this than 
I am, but since the waves for bass frequencies are longer, wouldn't 
it take longer and further for them to propagate? High frequencies 
do have at least the psychological illusion of being faster, and 
(Matt?) poor tweeter design, among other things, can interfere with 
the path of high frequency sound waves. I suppose if that were true, 
someone could find a way to manipulate at least the perception of 
how "quickly" sound hits your ears. 

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> I dunno about bordom, but it seems relevant to this list if only 
because
> the nuances of analog vs digital drums comes up so frequently. If 
the
> Aural Exciter can put back what many musicians find lacking when
> listening to a "real" drumset compared to an electronic drumset, 
than I'm
> happy to entertain the discussion... :)
> 
> In the description first given (of the Aural Exciter), that the 
high
> frequencies "fly" to your ear more quickly than the low 
frequencies,
> isn't the speed of sound a set-in-steel constant? (well, except 
maybe for
> barometric pressure or some such). I can't imagine why "highs" 
would
> travel "faster" than lows... For example, if the marching band 
bass drum
> is struck right when cymbals are crashed, on the other end of the 
field I
> hear them *together*, I've never noticed an difference in speed 
between
> highs and lows... Anyone care to comment?
> 
> Vern
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> 
> liberatusvirus said:
> > After I wrote that thing, I figured that I might have wiped out 
the
> > whole board with boredom. Walt said it must have been too much
> > caffeine; I think it may have been too little.
> >
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, MrPhoney@a... wrote:
> >> How's your career as a political speech writing going?
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~--> New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More 
flexibility. More
> > control. More power.
> > Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/kkLolB/TM
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
----~->

> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I currently have a DTX module and 1 dual zone cymbal
for sale, both
work fine and are on ebay, Item # 2511970437 for
anyone interested. 
Items are both shipped from Illinois so any US
bidders, there are no
customs or duty fees and shipping will be low.  email
me with any
questions.  geh_z34@....  Thanks!


__________________________________________________
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Claudio Ortiz Said:
> When we listen to live acoustic music as in an orchestra
> or dixieland band all the sounds get to our ear in a
> certain order. The highs travel faster, the lows
> travel slower.

As I was doing some research today on Sonar Ranging systems, I came
across this description of how Sonar works from well known author John
Iovine (author of many books on microcontrollers, robotics and other neat
tech stuff. see his book on amazon
here:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0071354794/ref%3Dnosim/robotbooks-20/103-2794261-5227019)
Here's the relevant passage:

-------------- CLIP ----------------
The velocity of sound through the air is about 1100 feet per second. The
exact speed of sound actually varies slightly with the temperature of the
air. As a rule of thumb, velocity changes by 1 foot per second per degree
Farenheit. Thus, at 32 degrees F, sound travles at a velocity of
approximately 1100 feet per second. at 70 degrees F, the speed of sound
is closer to 1140 feet per second.

The frequency of a sound has no effect on it's velocity. So, two sounds
with different frequencies will travel at the same speed through the same
media. However, the media (the material which a sound travels) does
effect the speed. For instance, sounds travels 4000 feet per second
through water.
------------ END CLIP --------------

This was in the opening section describing using Sonar range finders to
determine locations and distance to objects. It was important to
establish that frequency doesn't affect the speed since the sonar system
was using ultrasonic sound (49.4 khz) in the finished product yet the
experiments used clearly audible sound to excercise the system and
demonstrate the principles clearly. After construction the freq is raised
to above the threshhold of human hearing so it won't be contantly
"pinging" and annoying people as it takes readings....

So... I'm back to square one again. I *still* don't know if/what the
Aphex (or BBE) Aural Exciter/Sonic Maximizer does. :( If it *does* have
the ability to make electronic drums sound more like "real" drums I'd
like to know how...? :)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG