Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Ok, here's the question I found myself asking yesterday as I was trying
to figure out a "sound mystery" with my module...

On the module, the LCD "bar graph" shows a vertical deflection in
proportion to trigger "strength" (i.e. velocity). It occurred to me, does
it reflect the signal "after" it has been processed by rejection/self
rejection settings, or before?

The reason I'm curious, is that based on my observations, I am guessing
it shows "before" the rejection processing. In testing, I found the
deflection seems identical for each of the the triggers I made in a
straight 4/4 kick pattern (kick only, watching the display carefully),
yet some of the sounds made by the module are significantly louder than
others.

This is really annoying as it makes the kick jump in and out of the mix
at random points when playing along with music. And yes, it does it when
I have the module out through the PA, OR when I have the module
"headphones only" so it isn't an issue with noise bleed from the PA.

I was trying to use the bar-graph to see if there was a "bigger" kick
signal getting sent at different times, but I couldn't see any
difference. :(

So other than answering the mystery of where the meter deflection is
coming from, has anyone else seen this "periodic loud kick" behavior and
know how to tweak for it? :)

Vern

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

> From: Vernon Graner  

 > So other than answering the mystery of where the meter deflection is
 > coming from, has anyone else seen this "periodic loud kick" behavior and
 > know how to tweak for it? :)

 Vern,
 
I would be willing to bet that if you made no changes to the module and
plugged in a brand new KP65, the problem would go away (for a while anyway.)
 
Both of my KP65's have had similar problems. I have read about others having
similar problems, as well. The problem, I believe, after having taknig the
KP65 apart multiple times is the foam between the outer rubber surface and
the metal plate that the piezo is attached to. The outer rubber covering is
heavier that most people realize, it is probably 3/16" thick. But even with
that thickness it still gives in when struck by the pedal. The foam is
probably closer to a 1/2" thick but it is not a dense heavy material. After
regularly playing on it, the foam starts to breakdown and it creates a
cavity or dimple. Since the outer rubber covering is so heavy, lights hit to
it do not push the rubber covering back far enough to make contact with the
foam and thus the peizo, which is very well isolated from the frame and
plastic housing, simply does not detect the hit. Thus you have to kick
harder with the pedal. A heavier strike will push the rubber back far enough
to make contact with the foam and will be detected as a heavier hit. Thus
the "hot hits" and erratic behaviour.
 
The reason I have come to this conclusion, is that, I have not made any
adjustments to the KP65 from the module stand point. The KP65 work
flawlessly for the first year and the new KP65's that I just got with my
Dtxtreme IIS, work flawlessly. I opened up one of the original KP65's and
added a piece of foam to "replace" the damaged section (the dimple) and it
is now working OK again. Unfortunately, the foam is not what was designed as
a user replaceable item. Maybe it and the outer covering should have been
designed as a user replaceable component.
 
OGD 





 
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Pete,
 
I know that is one of the first things that I looked at on mine, when I was
having the problem, but once I added the foam insert the problem went away.
But Pete is right, you should always check the cables and connectors for
loose connections first.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: Peter Corona [] 
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:14 AM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DTXpress] Volume meter- b4 or after self rejection?


Anyone mention the possible bad connection inside the Kick Tower? Check the
electrode there.
 
Pete



 

 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
>  
> "........I just got with my
> Dtxtreme IIS"....., > OGD 
> 
> So, OGD!
  How do you like your DTXtremeIIS so far??? It will be good to hear 
from a very experienced e-drummer. I keep wanting to shout praises, 
but realize this IS my 1st and only e-kit and I cannot offer 
comparisons- only subjective opinions (which just happen to 
be "EXTREMEly" positive- DON'T excuse the pun!)
Thanks
Dan
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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Man.. I would be *really* surprised if it was a problem that comes about
with "wear". I received the kit as a xmas present from my wife about 2
yrs ago now and including the 30 minutes I played it this weekend (when I
discovered the kick volume anomaly) I be VERY surprised if I've put more
than 8-10 hours of TOTAL playing time on the entire kit (I do some times
use the module as a General MIDI device, without playing the kit).

It's embarassing to say, but I really get no time with the kit. 2 kids,
full time job + part time job(s) and having to place the kit on the
second floor of the house which precludes much late night playing...
::sigh::

Maybe the foam just "rots" after a year? I guess I need to dload the pics
of the inside of the unit and see about scheduling time to take the tower
apart. Just what I need... another project.. bleh.. :P

Vern

PS: Come to think of it, i'll bet I have spent more time on replying to
threads/moderating/updating the web forums etc. for this group than I
have playing my kit... thats really sad... :P
-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG




rdamon@... said:

> Pete,
>
> I know that is one of the first things that I looked at on mine, when I
> was
> having the problem, but once I added the foam insert the problem went
> away.
> But Pete is right, you should always check the cables and connectors for
> loose connections first.
>
> OGD
>
>    _____
>
> From: Peter Corona []
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:14 AM
> To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DTXpress] Volume meter- b4 or after self rejection?
>
>
> Anyone mention the possible bad connection inside the Kick Tower? Check
> the
> electrode there.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Vern,
 
It is not just the amount of playing time to consider, it is also, how
forceful the strikes are and if you typically leave the beater head press
against the pad between beats or if you leave the beater head in a neutral
position. It has been a few months since I opened up my KP65, but the
"dimple" in the foam is about 1" diameter and 1/4" deep on mine. 
 
OGD

   _____  

From: Vernon Graner  
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:27 PM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DTXpress] Volume meter- b4 or after self rejection?


Man.. I would be *really* surprised if it was a problem that comes about
with "wear". I received the kit as a xmas present from my wife about 2
yrs ago now and including the 30 minutes I played it this weekend (when I
discovered the kick volume anomaly) I be VERY surprised if I've put more
than 8-10 hours of TOTAL playing time on the entire kit (I do some times
use the module as a General MIDI device, without playing the kit).

It's embarassing to say, but I really get no time with the kit. 2 kids,
full time job + part time job(s) and having to place the kit on the
second floor of the house which precludes much late night playing...
::sigh::

Maybe the foam just "rots" after a year? I guess I need to dload the pics
of the inside of the unit and see about scheduling time to take the tower
apart. Just what I need... another project.. bleh.. :P

Vern

 
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Dan,
 
I haven't actually had alot of time the past few weeks to play around with
it. I am renovating a room to get more space for a home office/drum room. I
am trying to plan out how I am going to combine the two IIS with the
existing pads from the DtxpressII kits in order to use up all the inputs on
IIS. I have photo of the basic kit that I "doctored" in Photoshop that shows
how I want it to end up looking like, I just have to finish the renovation
and then figure out how arrange the rack for all the pads. I may end up
doing a three tier rack, with the cymbals on the upper rack, the toms on the
middle rack and the misc. percussion pads on the lower rack. I will post the
"proposed" layout to the gallery, if you  are interested in seeing it.
 
OGD
 
 


   _____  

From: Dan Cheak  
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:52 AM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Volume meter- b4 or after self rejection?


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
>  
> "........I just got with my
> Dtxtreme IIS"....., > OGD 
> 
> So, OGD!
  How do you like your DTXtremeIIS so far??? It will be good to hear 
from a very experienced e-drummer. I keep wanting to shout praises, 
but realize this IS my 1st and only e-kit and I cannot offer 
comparisons- only subjective opinions (which just happen to 
be "EXTREMEly" positive- DON'T excuse the pun!)
Thanks
Dan

 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
>. I may end up
> doing a three tier rack, with the cymbals on the upper rack, the 
toms on the
> middle rack and the misc. percussion pads on the lower rack. I 
will post the
> "proposed" layout to the gallery, if you  are interested in seeing 
it.
>  
> OGD
>  Definitey!!! I am too jealous!!
>  
> 
> 
>    _____  
> 
> From: Dan Cheak  
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 11:52 AM
> To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Volume meter- b4 or after self rejection?
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> >  
> > "........I just got with my
> > Dtxtreme IIS"....., > OGD 
> > 
> > So, OGD!
>   How do you like your DTXtremeIIS so far??? It will be good to 
hear 
> from a very experienced e-drummer. I keep wanting to shout 
praises, 
> but realize this IS my 1st and only e-kit and I cannot offer 
> comparisons- only subjective opinions (which just happen to 
> be "EXTREMEly" positive- DON'T excuse the pun!)
> Thanks
> Dan
> 
>  
> 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> Dan,
>  
> Look under New Kits/OGD Proposed Layout. I will have to tweak and 
coordinate
> the elevation of the pads, but that's the general concept.
>  
> OGD
> 
>   To put it bluntly..."that's the coolest thing I've ever seen!!! 
>  
> 
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Dan,
 
Look under New Kits/OGD Proposed Layout. I will have to tweak and coordinate
the elevation of the pads, but that's the general concept.
 
OGD

   _____  

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
>. I may end up
> doing a three tier rack, with the cymbals on the upper rack, the 
toms on the
> middle rack and the misc. percussion pads on the lower rack. I 
will post the
> "proposed" layout to the gallery, if you  are interested in seeing 
it.
>  
> OGD 
 
>  Definitey!!! I am too jealous!!
>  
> 
> 
>    _____  
> 
> From: Dan Cheak  


 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> Look under New Kits/OGD Proposed Layout. I will have to tweak and 
coordinate
> the elevation of the pads, but that's the general concept.

OGD,

I hadn't seen the plan. Heavens, I'd need another few arms to play 
that one, but I sure wouldn't mind trying with the two I've got. Will 
you be renting it out?

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> >,
> 
> I hadn't seen the plan. Heavens, I'd need another few arms to play 
> that one, but I sure wouldn't mind trying with the two I've got. 
Will 
> you be renting it out?
> 
> Ed

  Shoot! All 3 of us could get behind that kit and never run into 
each other!!!

--- OGD wrote:
> Look under New Kits/OGD Proposed Layout. I will have
> to tweak and coordinate the elevation of the pads,
> but that's the general concept.

Holy Textured Rubber, Batman.

Stewart

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> > Look under New Kits/OGD Proposed Layout. I will have to tweak and 
> coordinate
> > the elevation of the pads, but that's the general concept.
> 
> OGD,
> 
> I hadn't seen the plan. Heavens, I'd need another few arms to play 
> that one, but I sure wouldn't mind trying with the two I've got. 
Will 
> you be renting it out?
> 
> Ed

The real incredible part is not the size of it, but the fact that 
when we (wife and I) went to GC to buy just the one kit, she 
said, "You better go ahead a get two sets while we are here, because 
I know your not going to be satisfied with just one!" 

Is that amazing or what??

OGD

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> wrote:
> The real incredible part is not the size of it, but the fact that 
> when we (wife and I) went to GC to buy just the one kit, she 
> said, "You better go ahead a get two sets while we are here, 
because 
> I know your not going to be satisfied with just one!" 
> 
> Is that amazing or what??

I always knew that your wife functioned as the invisible ethical 
barometer of the DTXpress Group, but you might as well tell her now 
that she has locked up spouse of the year.

emf said:
> but you might as well tell her now
> that she has locked up spouse of the year.

hmmm I dunno... my wife bought me my kit for xmas as a surprise (even tho
I already had a Pearl kit), AND she then bought me a copy of Unreal
Tournament 2004 (when she saw how much I liked the demo), AND then she
made munchies and snacks and cleaned up the house for my bozo friends to
come over for the LAN party... AND she administers the primary
Debian/Linux mail server at our office.. She even has her picture on
ThinkGeek's website:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/ladies/5e34/action/21048c0/

And this last weekend, she went to visit my mother-in-law (an 8-hour
drive to the Rio Grande Valley) and she said, "why don't you stay here
all weekend and relax? I'll take the kids and see you on monday. :)

A tie maybe?  ;)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> emf said:

> hmmm I dunno... my wife bought me my kit for xmas as a surprise 
(even tho
> I already had a Pearl kit), AND she then bought me a copy of Unreal
> Tournament 2004 (when she saw how much I liked the demo), AND then 
she
> made munchies and snacks and cleaned up the house for my bozo 
friends to
> come over for the LAN party... AND she administers the primary
> Debian/Linux mail server at our office.. She even has her picture on
> ThinkGeek's website:
> 
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/ladies/5e34/action/21048c0/
> 
> And this last weekend, she went to visit my mother-in-law (an 8-hour
> drive to the Rio Grande Valley) and she said, "why don't you stay 
here
> all weekend and relax? I'll take the kids and see you on monday. :)
> 
> A tie maybe?  ;)


That's right. it's a tie. Both families will be awarded the coveted 
Golden Piezo--most recently bestowed on our 1,000th member (ol' 
what's his name). But wait, that's not all. You and your wives have 
also won a trip to Niagara Falls, where you'll ride two barrels down 
the watery slopes (barrels not included). Next (if you're still able 
to walk), you'll set out on the first leg of your hitchhikers' tour 
to Hollywood, Calif, where you'll see numerous celebrities crossing 
the street, going to market, and generally mingling with everyone 
else (celebrities not included). At night, you'll take in the latest 
Ben Stiller comedy at the Burbank multiplex (tickets and 
transportation not included). The next leg is a donkey ride down the 
the Grand Canyon (donkeys and Grand Canyon not included). On your way 
home, you'll see the country from your own windows on a Greyhound Bus 
(tickets available at www.greyhoundbus.com, not included). Once back 
home, you'll find a copy of our home game in a drawer somewhere in 
the basement (Go Fish), which you can play with your friends while 
reminiscing about your adventures. Congratulations Vern and OGD! See 
you on Family Feud.

Let's just face the truth boys and girls....any spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend
that let's their significant other go out and spend the kind of money it
takes to buy a e-kit are all winners and should all get "Significant Other
of the Year" awards.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: emf [mailto:liberatusvirus@...] 

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> emf said:

> hmmm I dunno... my wife bought me my kit for xmas as a surprise 
(even tho
> I already had a Pearl kit), AND she then bought me a copy of Unreal
> Tournament 2004 (when she saw how much I liked the demo), AND then 
she
> made munchies and snacks and cleaned up the house for my bozo 
friends to
> come over for the LAN party... AND she administers the primary
> Debian/Linux mail server at our office.. She even has her picture on
> ThinkGeek's website:
> 
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/ladies/5e34/action/21048c0/
<http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/ladies/5e34/action/21048c0/> 
> 
> And this last weekend, she went to visit my mother-in-law (an 8-hour
> drive to the Rio Grande Valley) and she said, "why don't you stay 
here
> all weekend and relax? I'll take the kids and see you on monday. :)
> 
> A tie maybe?  ;)


That's right. it's a tie. Both families will be awarded the coveted 
Golden Piezo--most recently bestowed on our 1,000th member (ol' 
what's his name). But wait, that's not all. You and your wives have 
also won a trip to Niagara Falls, where you'll ride two barrels down 
the watery slopes (barrels not included). Next (if you're still able 
to walk), you'll set out on the first leg of your hitchhikers' tour 
to Hollywood, Calif, where you'll see numerous celebrities crossing 
the street, going to market, and generally mingling with everyone 
else (celebrities not included). At night, you'll take in the latest 
Ben Stiller comedy at the Burbank multiplex (tickets and 
transportation not included). The next leg is a donkey ride down the 
the Grand Canyon (donkeys and Grand Canyon not included). On your way 
home, you'll see the country from your own windows on a Greyhound Bus 
(tickets available at www.greyhoundbus.com, not included). Once back 
home, you'll find a copy of our home game in a drawer somewhere in 
the basement (Go Fish), which you can play with your friends while 
reminiscing about your adventures. Congratulations Vern and OGD! See 
you on Family Feud.




 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> Let's just face the truth boys and girls....any 
spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend
> that let's their significant other go out and spend the kind of 
money it
> takes to buy a e-kit are all winners and should all 
get "Significant Other
> of the Year" awards.

Yeah, and our budget allows us to give the same prizes to all of them 
(massive grin).

Continuing on this topic... (Wow! An actual drumming related post!)  ;)

Does anyone know if the rejection setting is a "complete mute" or just a
reduction of gain on the strike? If I understand this correctly, it is a
"gate" so it will "ignore" any strike that falls within the parameters
specified by the rejection. So, if I was getting some kicks significantly
louder than others, it shouldn't have anything to do with rejection. Can
anyone confirm/deny?

Also, if as suggested, there is a "dimple" in the foam that is making
only certain "pressure" kicks show up as much louder than others,
wouldn't the LCD meter show a significanty more radical deflection? This
was the strange anomaly I noticed originally... that the meter deflection
seemed to be the "same" even when one or more of the kicks was VERY
loud...

I suppose I should take apart the kick tower and look for the dimple...

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> Continuing on this topic... (Wow! An actual drumming related 
post!)  ;)
> 
> Does anyone know if the rejection setting is a "complete mute" or 
just a
> reduction of gain on the strike? If I understand this correctly, it 
is a
> "gate" so it will "ignore" any strike that falls within the 
parameters
> specified by the rejection. So, if I was getting some kicks 
significantly
> louder than others, it shouldn't have anything to do with 
rejection. Can
> anyone confirm/deny?

That's my understanding--that rejection is an all-or-nothing gate 
that ignores all strikes except those that fall outside the setting. 
Thus, rejection would be irrelevant to perceived level. In other 
contexts, I've wondered whether the module has a processing 
limitation that sometimes prevents it from recovering in time from a 
loud strike to produce another one. The KP-60, however, used to 
produce the anomaly right out of the box for some people. It could be 
a defect, original or derived, of the board. But if so, you'd think 
that the difference would show up on the meter, unless the meter is 
too crude to register it.

Vern,
 
It is my understanding that rejection is a complete mute. 
 
I think if you were to draw a curve of the sound envelope, with a dimple in
place, you would start with flat line (no sound) as no real contact is made.
The curve would start up just as the light contact is made with the foam.
Once you are making contact with the foam on every strike, then the level
would go from a curve to a linear line up to the maximum velocity. The
problem is that the foot striking the pedal has less finess than the hand
using a stick to strike a pad and the ability to keep the strikes in or out
or this erratic region is difficult.
 
The rubber cover comes off easier on the KP65 pad than it does on the TP/PCY
pads as there is no gluing. So I would just open it up and see whats going
inside.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: Vernon Graner [mailto:vern@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:42 AM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DTXpress] Volume meter- b4 or after self rejection?


Continuing on this topic... (Wow! An actual drumming related post!)  ;)

Does anyone know if the rejection setting is a "complete mute" or just a
reduction of gain on the strike? If I understand this correctly, it is a
"gate" so it will "ignore" any strike that falls within the parameters
specified by the rejection. So, if I was getting some kicks significantly
louder than others, it shouldn't have anything to do with rejection. Can
anyone confirm/deny?

Also, if as suggested, there is a "dimple" in the foam that is making
only certain "pressure" kicks show up as much louder than others,
wouldn't the LCD meter show a significanty more radical deflection? This
was the strange anomaly I noticed originally... that the meter deflection
seemed to be the "same" even when one or more of the kicks was VERY
loud...

I suppose I should take apart the kick tower and look for the dimple...

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com <http://www.txis.com>         | is up, then we obviously
don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" (c)VLG



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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> Continuing on this topic... (Wow! An actual drumming related post!)  ;)
> 
> Does anyone know if the rejection setting is a "complete mute" or just a
> reduction of gain on the strike? If I understand this correctly, it is a
> "gate" so it will "ignore" any strike that falls within the parameters
> specified by the rejection. So, if I was getting some kicks
significantly
> louder than others, it shouldn't have anything to do with rejection. Can
> anyone confirm/deny?
> 

A louder sound would imply a bigger hit which I have seen on the rim
of the snare if you hit the centre as well.  Crosstalk from something
else could possibly make it louder, but you don't usuually get much
crosstalk to the kick.  I am not sure how much use the bar graph is,
but if you go into edit trigger mode and scroll down a page you can
get a percentage which may be useful.

Keith.

I just went digging through the photo archives on the group, and found a
"naked" picture of the kp65:

http://tinyurl.com/59gs6

However, it doesn't show the front of the foam pad.. is there a picture
somewhere that illustrates the "dimple" problem, or will it be obvious
when I open the unit if I have the issue?

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

Vern,
 
When I took that photo, it was a fairly new pad. I should have taken a photo
of the "dimple" when I had the pad open. It will be pretty obvious once you
open it up though.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: Vernon Graner  
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 1:00 PM
To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DTXpress] Volume meter- b4 or after self rejection?


I just went digging through the photo archives on the group, and found a
"naked" picture of the kp65:

http://tinyurl.com/59gs6 <http://tinyurl.com/59gs6> 

However, it doesn't show the front of the foam pad.. is there a picture
somewhere that illustrates the "dimple" problem, or will it be obvious
when I open the unit if I have the issue?

Vern


 
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for use to the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
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use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.


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