Digital BW, The Print

I just completed a paper screen with the new Selenium Piezotones.  My intent
is to share my impressions of the relative tone of the Seleniums on various
papers and then put them in perspective to the Neutral Warm Piezotones. In
addition, I'd say that the MIS FS-N inks are blue and cool and the original
Cone inks and MIS FS inks are warm (when fully warmed over the course of
several weeks) when compared to my "Cool" and "Warm" labels below.

My observations are based on observing a continuous gray ramp, a gray wedge
and two test prints printed with custom profiles for Imageprint.  All prints
were produced with an Epson 7000.

I have also read dmax for these paper/ink combinations.  I'm sharing
relative black ratings instead of actual dmax figures...because of
variability between various densitometers.  I'm reading dmax with the
density setting on my spectrocam spectrophotomer.  5 is the top rating for
black and 1 is the bottom rating.  The spread on my spectrophotometer is
about .25 dmax units.  It is difficult to see differences in black of 1
unit...but you can see the difference in 2 units.  Also by way of reference,
the best black that I got with the piezo driver and FS or the original cone
inks would have been a 3 on Photorag...Osprey would have been a -2.
Somerset Velvet (uncoated Iris paper) on the old inks would have been about
-4 and -2 with the new inks.

Here are the papers listed from Cool to Warm with black ratings at the end.

Cool
SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Velvet or Satine Bright White--1 black
SelPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
SelPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
SelPT--Hawk Mountain Merlin--2 black
NWPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
SelPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
SelPT--Legion Somerset Enhanced--3.7 black
SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
SelPT--Crane Museo--4 black
SelPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech Wells
river)--5 black
NWPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
NWPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
NWPT--SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
NWPT--Crane Museo--4 black
NWPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech Wells
river)--5 black
Warm

Roughly speaking the tones of inks follow the whiteness of the paper.  The
Brightcube Bright White and EAM are loaded with optical brighteners and thus
are very white...the Photorag has the next largest quantity of
brighteners...etc.  Perhaps of greatest interest is the cross over where the
ink tone for the NWPT on EAM actually crosses into the SelPT lineup.  I've
had several other sets of eyes take a look at these prints and they
essentially agree with my ratings.

Hope this helps,

Robert

Cross-posted

One addition to the line up below is Red River Premium Matte, which is an
inexpensive optically brightened paper.  It is the coolest Selenium
Piezotone print I have seen so far...but still less blue than FS-N on EAM.
Black is a respectable 3.

Robert

On 8/16/02 2:02 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:

> I just completed a paper screen with the new Selenium Piezotones.  My intent
> is to share my impressions of the relative tone of the Seleniums on various
> papers and then put them in perspective to the Neutral Warm Piezotones. In
> addition, I'd say that the MIS FS-N inks are blue and cool and the original
> Cone inks and MIS FS inks are warm (when fully warmed over the course of
> several weeks) when compared to my "Cool" and "Warm" labels below.
> 
> My observations are based on observing a continuous gray ramp, a gray wedge
> and two test prints printed with custom profiles for Imageprint.  All prints
> were produced with an Epson 7000.
> 
> I have also read dmax for these paper/ink combinations.  I'm sharing
> relative black ratings instead of actual dmax figures...because of
> variability between various densitometers.  I'm reading dmax with the
> density setting on my spectrocam spectrophotomer.  5 is the top rating for
> black and 1 is the bottom rating.  The spread on my spectrophotometer is
> about .25 dmax units.  It is difficult to see differences in black of 1
> unit...but you can see the difference in 2 units.  Also by way of reference,
> the best black that I got with the piezo driver and FS or the original cone
> inks would have been a 3 on Photorag...Osprey would have been a -2.
> Somerset Velvet (uncoated Iris paper) on the old inks would have been about
> -4 and -2 with the new inks.
> 
> Here are the papers listed from Cool to Warm with black ratings at the end.
> 
> Cool
> SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Velvet or Satine Bright White--1 black
> SelPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
> SelPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
> SelPT--Hawk Mountain Merlin--2 black
> NWPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
> SelPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
> SelPT--Legion Somerset Enhanced--3.7 black
> SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
> SelPT--Crane Museo--4 black
> SelPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech Wells
> river)--5 black
> NWPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
> NWPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
> NWPT--SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
> NWPT--Crane Museo--4 black
> NWPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech Wells
> river)--5 black
> Warm
> 
> Roughly speaking the tones of inks follow the whiteness of the paper.  The
> Brightcube Bright White and EAM are loaded with optical brighteners and thus
> are very white...the Photorag has the next largest quantity of
> brighteners...etc.  Perhaps of greatest interest is the cross over where the
> ink tone for the NWPT on EAM actually crosses into the SelPT lineup.  I've
> had several other sets of eyes take a look at these prints and they
> essentially agree with my ratings.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Robert,

I tried all the same papers except the Osprey and I would generally agree
with your assessment although I favor the Photo Rag. The Hahnemuhle, EAM and
Crane are the top picks from what I have seen so far. The range in resulting
hue across this papers is quite large, as you say, making both inks very
versatile.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Piezotones on Various Papers


> Cross-posted
>
> One addition to the line up below is Red River Premium Matte, which is an
> inexpensive optically brightened paper.  It is the coolest Selenium
> Piezotone print I have seen so far...but still less blue than FS-N on EAM.
> Black is a respectable 3.
>
> Robert
>
> On 8/16/02 2:02 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:
>
> > I just completed a paper screen with the new Selenium Piezotones.  My
intent
> > is to share my impressions of the relative tone of the Seleniums on
various
> > papers and then put them in perspective to the Neutral Warm Piezotones.
In
> > addition, I'd say that the MIS FS-N inks are blue and cool and the
original
> > Cone inks and MIS FS inks are warm (when fully warmed over the course of
> > several weeks) when compared to my "Cool" and "Warm" labels below.
> >
> > My observations are based on observing a continuous gray ramp, a gray
wedge
> > and two test prints printed with custom profiles for Imageprint.  All
prints
> > were produced with an Epson 7000.
> >
> > I have also read dmax for these paper/ink combinations.  I'm sharing
> > relative black ratings instead of actual dmax figures...because of
> > variability between various densitometers.  I'm reading dmax with the
> > density setting on my spectrocam spectrophotomer.  5 is the top rating
for
> > black and 1 is the bottom rating.  The spread on my spectrophotometer is
> > about .25 dmax units.  It is difficult to see differences in black of 1
> > unit...but you can see the difference in 2 units.  Also by way of
reference,
> > the best black that I got with the piezo driver and FS or the original
cone
> > inks would have been a 3 on Photorag...Osprey would have been a -2.
> > Somerset Velvet (uncoated Iris paper) on the old inks would have been
about
> > -4 and -2 with the new inks.
> >
> > Here are the papers listed from Cool to Warm with black ratings at the
end.
> >
> > Cool
> > SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Velvet or Satine Bright White--1 black
> > SelPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
> > SelPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
> > SelPT--Hawk Mountain Merlin--2 black
> > NWPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
> > SelPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
> > SelPT--Legion Somerset Enhanced--3.7 black
> > SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
> > SelPT--Crane Museo--4 black
> > SelPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech
Wells
> > river)--5 black
> > NWPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
> > NWPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
> > NWPT--SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
> > NWPT--Crane Museo--4 black
> > NWPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech Wells
> > river)--5 black
> > Warm
> >
> > Roughly speaking the tones of inks follow the whiteness of the paper.
The
> > Brightcube Bright White and EAM are loaded with optical brighteners and
thus
> > are very white...the Photorag has the next largest quantity of
> > brighteners...etc.  Perhaps of greatest interest is the cross over where
the
> > ink tone for the NWPT on EAM actually crosses into the SelPT lineup.
I've
> > had several other sets of eyes take a look at these prints and they
> > essentially agree with my ratings.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same
> > page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

On 8/16/02 5:15 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> I tried all the same papers except the Osprey and I would generally agree
> with your assessment although I favor the Photo Rag. The Hahnemuhle, EAM and
> Crane are the top picks from what I have seen so far. The range in resulting
> hue across this papers is quite large, as you say, making both inks very
> versatile.
> 
Its funny, I've recently fallen in love with EAM...no heckling from the
peanut gallery.  EAM is my proofing paper (in rolls on the 7000), Photorag
gives a great non-coated print, and I use the smooth side of Eclipse Satine
Soft White and Museo for coated prints...If I need a smoother surface for
coating I use Merlin.  I think another knock out with the Selenium's is
Somerset Enhanced.  I never liked this paper before because of its high
price and poor dmax...but the dmax is really good now...but the price is
still high.  Given that it is now to become a preferred Epson paper there is
a chance that the price may come down. I still have a large quantity of the
discontinued Xtreme Gamut Satine which prints identically to SSE with the
Piezotones and which was about a third the price of SSE when I bought it.

All said the paper options are much, much better with the piezotones than
they were with the old cone inks and the MIS inks.

Robert

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 2:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Piezotones on Various Papers
> 
> 
>> Cross-posted
>> 
>> One addition to the line up below is Red River Premium Matte, which is an
>> inexpensive optically brightened paper.  It is the coolest Selenium
>> Piezotone print I have seen so far...but still less blue than FS-N on EAM.
>> Black is a respectable 3.
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> On 8/16/02 2:02 PM, "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> wrote:
>> 
>>> I just completed a paper screen with the new Selenium Piezotones.  My
> intent
>>> is to share my impressions of the relative tone of the Seleniums on
> various
>>> papers and then put them in perspective to the Neutral Warm Piezotones.
> In
>>> addition, I'd say that the MIS FS-N inks are blue and cool and the
> original
>>> Cone inks and MIS FS inks are warm (when fully warmed over the course of
>>> several weeks) when compared to my "Cool" and "Warm" labels below.
>>> 
>>> My observations are based on observing a continuous gray ramp, a gray
> wedge
>>> and two test prints printed with custom profiles for Imageprint.  All
> prints
>>> were produced with an Epson 7000.
>>> 
>>> I have also read dmax for these paper/ink combinations.  I'm sharing
>>> relative black ratings instead of actual dmax figures...because of
>>> variability between various densitometers.  I'm reading dmax with the
>>> density setting on my spectrocam spectrophotomer.  5 is the top rating
> for
>>> black and 1 is the bottom rating.  The spread on my spectrophotometer is
>>> about .25 dmax units.  It is difficult to see differences in black of 1
>>> unit...but you can see the difference in 2 units.  Also by way of
> reference,
>>> the best black that I got with the piezo driver and FS or the original
> cone
>>> inks would have been a 3 on Photorag...Osprey would have been a -2.
>>> Somerset Velvet (uncoated Iris paper) on the old inks would have been
> about
>>> -4 and -2 with the new inks.
>>> 
>>> Here are the papers listed from Cool to Warm with black ratings at the
> end.
>>> 
>>> Cool
>>> SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Velvet or Satine Bright White--1 black
>>> SelPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
>>> SelPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
>>> SelPT--Hawk Mountain Merlin--2 black
>>> NWPT--Epson Archival Matte (Epson Enhanced Matte)--4 black
>>> SelPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
>>> SelPT--Legion Somerset Enhanced--3.7 black
>>> SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
>>> SelPT--Crane Museo--4 black
>>> SelPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech
> Wells
>>> river)--5 black
>>> NWPT--Hahnemuhle Photorag (Media Street Royal Renasainse)--4.5 black
>>> NWPT--Hawk Mountain Osprey--1 black
>>> NWPT--SelPT--Brightcube Eclipse Soft White--2 black
>>> NWPT--Crane Museo--4 black
>>> NWPT--Hahnemuhle William Turner (Media Street Royal Jazz, Conetech Wells
>>> river)--5 black
>>> Warm
>>> 
>>> Roughly speaking the tones of inks follow the whiteness of the paper.
> The
>>> Brightcube Bright White and EAM are loaded with optical brighteners and
> thus
>>> are very white...the Photorag has the next largest quantity of
>>> brighteners...etc.  Perhaps of greatest interest is the cross over where
> the
>>> ink tone for the NWPT on EAM actually crosses into the SelPT lineup.
> I've
>>> had several other sets of eyes take a look at these prints and they
>>> essentially agree with my ratings.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> 
>>> Robert
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other
>>> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>>> 
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>> 
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same
>>> page.
>>> 
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - Include your full name with your message.
>>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
>>> them short.
>>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
>>> resources on the homepage.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>> 
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - Include your full name with your message.
>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Robert Morrison wrote:

>Its funny, I've recently fallen in love with EAM...

I never thought I'd hear it.  :)

But I have an admission also -- I just profiled the 1290 grayscale vm curve
for PhotoRag and will make profiles for that paper for the other 1290 tone
curves as well.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

On 8/16/02 6:06 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> Robert Morrison wrote:
> 
>> Its funny, I've recently fallen in love with EAM...
> 
> I never thought I'd hear it.  :)
> 
Mind you...it wasn't until I used the Selenium Piezotones on it...and I
still wouldn't use it for anything other than a proof...or maybe a
disposable portfolio...but I feel myself slipping...if only someone put this
coating/surface with a little less brightener on a good rag
paper...alas...oh and sold it for $.05 a sheet...ha ha....

:-)

Robert