Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-23 by frankg_photo <fh.gross@sympatico.ca>

1160 printer.
MIS vm-s inks with CFS system.

Symptoms:
Poor prints that look like the inking system has to be checked.
Bad nozzle check pattern with missing bars and sometimes an entire 
segment is missing (the bottom row, centre pattern). On one occasion 
I also had a pattern where some bars were out of position.
Run cleaning cycles which have resulted in a Good nozzle check 
pattern, but after doing a print it's clear to see poor print inking 
again (lack of depth/tone/deensity etc). Run another nozzle check 
after the print - Bad nozzle yet again. The Good nozzle check doesn't 
last
I also printed a 4 col purge pattern (MIS) after getting a good 
nozzle check, which printed successfully.
Do another cleaning cycle and get a Good nozzle, do a print, check 
nozzle, bad again - recurring over and over.

Attempted cures:
1.Paper towel with Windex under the print head path.
2.Drops of Windex on the parking pads.
3. Three cleaning cycles in quick succession, without a nozzle check, 
and let stand for a couple of hours.

What else can be done ?

I searched old posts and it seems that replacing the CFS with Epson 
ink carts is also recommended - correct ?
If so, how do I do this - I can see if I were using carts presently, 
but with a CFS ?
thanks,
Frank

Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-23 by jim hayes <jimhayes@frii.com>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frankg_photo 
<fh.gross@s...>" <fh.gross@s...> wrote:
> 1160 printer.
> MIS vm-s inks with CFS system.
> 
> Symptoms:
> Poor prints that look like the inking system has to be checked.
> Bad nozzle check pattern with missing bars and sometimes an entire 
> segment is missing (the bottom row, centre pattern). On one occasion 
> I also had a pattern where some bars were out of position.
> Run cleaning cycles which have resulted in a Good nozzle check 
> pattern, but after doing a print it's clear to see poor print inking 
> again (lack of depth/tone/deensity etc). Run another nozzle check 
> after the print - Bad nozzle yet again. The Good nozzle check 
doesn't 
> last
> I also printed a 4 col purge pattern (MIS) after getting a good 
> nozzle check, which printed successfully.
> Do another cleaning cycle and get a Good nozzle, do a print, check 
> nozzle, bad again - recurring over and over.
> 
> Attempted cures:
> 1.Paper towel with Windex under the print head path.
> 2.Drops of Windex on the parking pads.
> 3. Three cleaning cycles in quick succession, without a nozzle 
check, 
> and let stand for a couple of hours.
> 
> What else can be done ?
> 
> I searched old posts and it seems that replacing the CFS with Epson 
> ink carts is also recommended - correct ?
> If so, how do I do this - I can see if I were using carts presently, 
> but with a CFS ?
> thanks,
> Frank


You don't say how long you've had the CFS, the ink, and what 
humidity/temperature/elevation/clean environment you're in.

The nozzle jumping up or down out of position is a giveaway that the 
bottom of head is gobbed up and needs the paper towel trick. Usually 
this is accompied by the symptom of random blobs of ink splattered on 
print, but you don't mention this...and you also say you have done 
this trick to no avail.

I would assume that since you're ink is printing badly (even with a 
good nozzle check) that your ink has gone bad through evaporation thru 
tubing or has just broken down over time. So it is time to cut your 
losses and discard the rest of the ink. Start over with fresh ink. If 
this assumption is not correct than my recommendation which follows is 
not correct as well...but it sure sounds like that ink is gone bad.

First put Epson carts back in and clear up as much as the old stuff in 
there as you can. Run it for a few days.

Then decide whether you want to continue using a CFS or CIS at all. 
This will depend on your climate and how long your previous CFS/ink 
worked without problems. Also on how much hassle you want to go thru. 
If say, it had been working a year before this arose you may decide to 
continue using a CFS. In this event, simply buy the carts with tubing 
attached from MIS and stick it in a new bottle. You will pay around 
$40 (maybe less, thats price for an 1280). Then expect problems to 
reoccur within another year. Do not use your old CFS tubing/ carts 
under any circumstances. Or the ink.

Since you would toss your old CFS/ ink, changing it out is not a big 
deal. Just swap it for the Epson carts and throw the CFS/ ink away. 
Keep the bottle holder and the vacuum pump, etc.

If like me you get ink caking inside the bottle after only 3 weeks or 
so, give up on the idea of CFS and use carts. You can fill them 
yourself. I used to fill a set of 1280 carts for $27, I suspect the 
1160 would come in around $15-$18 or so.
Jim H.

Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-23 by frankg_photo <fh.gross@sympatico.ca>

Barry,
You mention checking/replacing the tubes.
They all feel hard to me. How would you replace them - just prying 
them off the cfs cart and sticking replacements on ?

And how would I put Epson carts back in - just lift up the CFS carts 
& plug the bottom ink holes with rivets - that's it ?

And Jim, the specs I omitted that you said are relevant to the 
problem are - I'm in the frigid cold north (Ontario, Canada) and my 
setup is in the basement. It's clean but not hot'n humid. And Lake 
Ontario is probably close to sea level.

Mystery is that after clearing the nozzles, by doing 3 quick 
consecutive head cleanings and letting it stand for a few hours, the 
nozzle check is good and the print/s is fine - but it doesn't last 
long before I see a bad print! And then a nozzle check verifies 
amessed up pattern with missing bars.
Frank

Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-24 by jim hayes <jimhayes@frii.com>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frankg_photo 
<fh.gross@s...>" <fh.gross@s...> wrote:
> Barry,
> You mention checking/replacing the tubes.
> They all feel hard to me. How would you replace them - just prying 
> them off the cfs cart and sticking replacements on ?

Not to speak for Barry on this, but with a CIS, lots of folks try to 
just replace the carts, which means cleaning out the tubing. But with 
a CFS, it's so cheap you can just throw the whole assembly away and 
buy another.
But yes, if you wanted to chuck the carts only, cut the tubing off 
close to the elbows and flush the tubing with warm water, then jam 
them on the little spigots of a new set of carts.
Note I've never done this personally, I've just replaced the whole 
shebang.

> 
> And how would I put Epson carts back in - just lift up the CFS carts 
> & plug the bottom ink holes with rivets - that's it ?

Yes. I start with the black cart, after I get that up aways I can get 
a good grip on the color cart. If you plan on keeping the CFS then 
plug with rivets. It's easy to do, really. Or buy EZ-plugs from a 
distributor of CIS system. This way you can plug all three ports on 
color cart at once if you're not handy. But they cost $15 US. And look 
for the plastic on them to break in short order- some think the ink 
actually chemically attacks it. Save your receipt. I kept two when I 
was doing this stuff, and almost constantly was swapping out for a 
free replacement on one.

After you get the ports plugged somehow, wipe it off with a towel and 
maybe put it in a bag but not sealed. Store the carts above the 
bottles by a tad.

If you are going to toss the CFS carts/tubing then it doesn't matter. 
Just throw it away.

Sometimes I got a bit extra pooling of ink around the nipples after 
removing carts. I carefully soaked it up with a photowipe or a foam 
swab from radio shack. Since the nipples are fragile, be carefull.

Oh yes and replace the cart lids before installing Epson carts. Easy- 
need a small bladed screwdriver.

> 
> And Jim, the specs I omitted that you said are relevant to the 
> problem are - I'm in the frigid cold north (Ontario, Canada) and my 
> setup is in the basement. It's clean but not hot'n humid. And Lake 
> Ontario is probably close to sea level.

This is probably good (sea level and cold). I always noticed that I 
printed better below 77 degree f and above 66 degree f. Above 77 it 
didn't like (1280, with my 1160's I didn't keep track of temperature). 
I don't know what that is in Celsius...

Sounds adequate, but I still wonder what your humidity is. I'm right 
on the eastern side of the continental divide, and all the moisture 
gets sucked out of the air here by weather going over the mountains. I 
humidify the studio now, but it would be 20% RH if I didn't this time 
of year. That is TOO low. From experience I'd say try to get around 
40-45%RH but avoid going below 35%RH if you can.

It sounds like you're on the penninsula, and I've been there often, 
very beautiful country. If so, I'm almost positive your humidity is 
not too low. When I go there in summer, it feels like a steam bath- 
everything east of 100 degrees longitude does<g>. My one doubt would 
be what happens in winter there. 

> 
> Mystery is that after clearing the nozzles, by doing 3 quick 
> consecutive head cleanings and letting it stand for a few hours, the 
> nozzle check is good and the print/s is fine - but it doesn't last 
> long before I see a bad print! And then a nozzle check verifies 
> amessed up pattern with missing bars.

But didn't you say you had a messed up tonal scale even with a good 
nozzle check? If so, then I'd toss the ink, CFS, and start over. If 
not, then I can make some guesses...

Do you see a lot of ink caking up in the k bottle above the ink line? 
If so it may be in the tubing as well. How old is the bottle/ CFS? 
Only a few weeks or a year? If a short time, get yourself a hygrometer 
from Radio Shack. If it goes below 35%RH put a pan of water near the 
printer or a humidifier ...
If a year, maybe it's time to swap it out, preventative 
maintainance...

If there is no k ink to speak of above the ink line in k bottle, then 
I'd keep the ink and the CFS but pull it temporarily and put Epson 
carts in. If after a few days of this and the CFS back in it still 
does it, I would either replace carts/tubing of CFS and keep ink, or 
try direct injection as a last resort.

It's amazing how my clogging seemed to track the weather with both 
1280 and 1160s. Check out the humidity first maybe.
Jim H.
> Frank

Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-24 by frankg_photo <fh.gross@sympatico.ca>

> Do you see a lot of ink caking up in the k bottle above the ink 
line? 
> If so it may be in the tubing as well. How old is the bottle/ CFS? 
> Only a few weeks or a year? 

Yes, I do have caking on the sides of the bottles - so much so that I 
have to unscrew the lid to peek inside to determine the level. I cant 
easily tell from the outside of the bottle.

The original ink and cfs was purchased from MIS about a year ago but 
I have since bought and used replacement inks


> try direct injection as a last resort.
> 

Can you explain this procedure or point to a post/file or site that 
does ?

Frank

Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-24 by jim hayes <jimhayes@frii.com>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "frankg_photo 
<fh.gross@s...>" <fh.gross@s...> wrote:
> 
> > Do you see a lot of ink caking up in the k bottle above the ink 
> line? 
> > If so it may be in the tubing as well. How old is the bottle/ CFS? 
> > Only a few weeks or a year? 
> 
> Yes, I do have caking on the sides of the bottles - so much so that 
I 
> have to unscrew the lid to peek inside to determine the level. I 
cant 
> easily tell from the outside of the bottle.
> 
> The original ink and cfs was purchased from MIS about a year ago but 
> I have since bought and used replacement inks

 Sounds really bad. Imagine that stuff caking on the bottle- except 
imagine it has formed in the tubing, on the filter screen in the 
bottom of cart, or worse- into the constrictions of the printhead 
where it is like a tiny maze.
I think it's time to throw away the CFS and buy new carts/tubing 
assembly. Especially if it's a year old. Any of the newer ink that has 
been poured into bottle throw away as well. Keep any of the new ink 
that is still in the new unused bottles keep.

> 
> 
> > try direct injection as a last resort.
> > 
> 
> Can you explain this procedure or point to a post/file or site that 
> does ?


http://www.inksupply.com/index1.cfm?source=html/direct_inject.html

but only as a last resort before you take to Epson tech. And you may 
have more sucess with Fantastik than Windex. Everyone has a different 
opinion.
Jim H.
> 
> Frank

[Digital BW] Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-24 by Sam A. McCandless

Are the MIS/InkSupply.com CFS bottles different from the 
NoMoreCarts.com CIS bottles?

I ask because I think I remember that I started using MIS VM 
Sepia-Neutral inks in an 1160 at least a little before Frank did. But 
in a NMC's CIS, not in MIS's CFS. And I have no caking at all above 
the ink lines, not even for the black, which has been re-filled more 
and I think is the only one of the four inks on which I've ever had a 
nozzle check with gaps. And not many at that. This past September I 
was away for three weeks and got perfect nozzle checks on returning 
(both on my S-N 1160 and on my Gen4 1160, on which there's also a 
CIS).

 From Jim Hayes' and others' posts, I think I know there are CIS/CFS 
design differences, but I'd assumed they were using the same plastic, 
even mostly the same parts probably. Maybe not.

Most of us now call this inkset simply (MIS VM) "Sepia", but it is 
the one originally called "Sepia-Neutral" isn't it?

Sam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Do you see a lot of ink caking up in the k bottle above the ink
>line?
> > If so it may be in the tubing as well. How old is the bottle/ CFS?
> > Only a few weeks or a year?
>
>Yes, I do have caking on the sides of the bottles - so much so that I
>have to unscrew the lid to peek inside to determine the level. I cant
>easily tell from the outside of the bottle.
>
>The original ink and cfs was purchased from MIS about a year ago but
>I have since bought and used replacement inks
>
>[snip]
>
>Frank

Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-24 by frankg_photo <fh.gross@sympatico.ca>

The story has a happy ending -I hope- (I'll let you know tomorrow :-)

I removed the CFS.
Replaced with OEM Epson carts.
Several cleaning cycles & nozzle checks and purge pattern printings 
with Epson carts.
Sucked about 100cc of ink through each chamber of the CFS.
Replaced the CFS.
Several cleaning cycles & nozzle checks and purge pattern printings 
with the replaced CFS.
A few test prints and all seems ok again. Sure hope it lasts !!
Thank you all for your help.

Frank

[Digital BW] Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-24 by jim hayes <jimhayes@frii.com>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sam A. 
McCandless" <samcc@v...> wrote:
><snip>
> 
>  From Jim Hayes' and others' posts, I think I know there are CIS/CFS 
> design differences, but I'd assumed they were using the same 
plastic, 
> even mostly the same parts probably. Maybe not.
> 
> Most of us now call this inkset simply (MIS VM) "Sepia", but it is 
> the one originally called "Sepia-Neutral" isn't it?
> 
> Sam
> 

I know that the MIS bottles are made of Nalgene, not sure of CIS 
bottles but I suspect the same (they looked it). The big design 
difference is that a CFS has a breather hole in the top. The CIS also 
has a hole, but a small tube is connected to it which makes a 180 
degree bend and points downward.. I've often wondered if this would be 
an advantage or not, but you'd have to remove other variables- put the 
bottles side by side, tighten lids about the same amount, put same 
amount of  NEW k ink in each, seal off the hole to the tubing...an 
interesting experiment if someone had some spare k ink and bottles.

I didn't have any CFS tubing to compare next to CIS tubing, but having 
had two CIS units in the past, when I ordered my first CFS, it seemed 
to me as if the tubing was different- not quite as flexible. I could 
be totally wrong on this. Someone with a CIS could easily buy a foot 
or two of the CFS tubing cheap from MIS if they wanted to 
confirm/disprove this. Or if someone wants to send me a snippet of CIS 
tubing I can compare it to my old CFS sitting here- since I have 
calipers and a micrometer I can probably nail down even a small 
difference in outer or inner diameter which would be a giveaway that 
tubing was the same or different.
Jim H.

[Digital BW] Re: 1160 bad nozzle checks recurring

2003-01-25 by K2 Chittin <k2lists@hotmail.com>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jim hayes 
<jimhayes@f...>" <jimhayes@f...> wrote:
> I know that the MIS bottles are made of Nalgene, not sure of CIS 
> bottles but I suspect the same (they looked it).

Yes Jim, they both use Nalgene bottles.  Nalgene seems to be 
an "industry" standard.  The bottles are guaranteed leak proof when 
transporting liquids and are primarily aimed at the scientific 
community for storing/transporting potentially hazardous samples.

> I didn't have any CFS tubing to compare next to CIS tubing, but 
having 
> had two CIS units in the past, when I ordered my first CFS, it 
seemed 
> to me as if the tubing was different- not quite as flexible.

I'm not sure who makes the CFS tubing.  The CIS tubing is certainly 
more flexible and has Tygon R-3603 written on it.  I don't recall who 
makes it.  If you do a search of the archives going a couple of 
months back, you'll find a post from (I think) Peter Marquis-Kyle 
telling us who makes the tubing.

Having had a quick look at medical/scientific supplier sites, the 
tubing is usually sold in singles.  I wonder if the CIS/CFS makers 
are getting custom made to get 4 and 6 tubes together.

K2

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.