Digital BW, The Print

Martin, go to page 424 in Blatner and 
Frasiers's excellent book "Real World 
Photoshop 6" and read up on duotones in 
that chapter.   I also detail some of the 
breakdown of the duotone workflow on 
http://www.lincolninks.com using the 
Spectratone Inkset in the 3000 and 
PressReady.

Anyway I like it for quadtones and you will 
have to use a RIP to print from the duotone 
based CMYK file you will end up with.

Good Luck

Allen Maertz
lincolnink.com


Message: 6
   Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:04:05 -0000

   From: mwesley250@...
Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim 
York: re:papers

Tim,

I will start digging through the stacks. I like 
to save all my photo 
magazines for times like this but have no 
good filing system. I have 
promised Steadman also so I guess I better 
get to it.

If anyone out there remembers the article, 
date, etc. please let me 
know.

We would need to get the publisher's 
permission to post it, which I 
can ask for. However, getting a copy would 
be the best as it has many 
images in color showing the different tones 
he achieved.

I think that this is a technique that is over 
looked. It also has 
great importance for new photographers who 
want to explore B&W but 
may not have the resources to add extra 
printers/inks to their 
equipment list or send their work out for 
Lightjet output. It should 
also be printer independent. Epson has 
dominated the art print area 
with good reason but the duotone method 
should be usable with all 
brands.

Martin

Tim,

The Blatner and Frasier book is invaluable 
for understanding color management and 
how photoshop works and I'd recommend it 
even if you had zero interest in duotones.

I get the feeling that you are actually 
interested in duotone simulations using the 
colored inks.  This and neutral printing with 
colored inks is probably the ultimate difficult 
thing to do well.  That's why a real duotone, 
tritone or quadtone solution is valuable.  
Harder to start but easy to print once set up.  

I did get Yarc to write a 6 color independent 
manual channel driver option for their RIP 
for the Spectratones before they kinda 
dissapeared.  

Anyway if you want to do duotone 
simulations, "just" get a neutral grayscale, 
the adjust the color cast in curves in the 
individual rgb channels.  It's direct, simple 
but difficult to do well image to image.

I doubt there is an easier answer.  

Allen Maertz
lincolninks.com


Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0000

   From: tyork@...
Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim 
York: re:papers

Martin, 

As I mentioned I e-mailed View Camera but 
they didn't know anything 
about the article. I'm not sure where to go 
now. I read Allen's 
comment to you but don't have the book. Oh 
well, C'est la vie.

Tim

Hi Allen,

Thank you for your suggestions. I would like to achieve a b/w with as 
close to a selenium look as possible. I know that is difficult 
because of it's subjectivity but I think you know what i mean. The 
blue/purplish blacks and deep,rich grays that you could almost scoop 
the gray out of. Paper plays a big part to the look I'm trying to 
achieve, but if I can come close I will be happy.
 Using the duotones will also allow me to print color when I 
need/want to. If I can't get this then I will buy a second printer, 
but that still wouldn't get me my selenium-toned prints. Thanks again.


Tim 












--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., allentakichi@e... wrote:

> Tim,
> 
> The Blatner and Frasier book is invaluable 
> for understanding color management and 
> how photoshop works and I'd recommend it 
> even if you had zero interest in duotones.
> 
> I get the feeling that you are actually 
> interested in duotone simulations using the 
> colored inks.  This and neutral printing with 
> colored inks is probably the ultimate difficult 
> thing to do well.  That's why a real duotone, 
> tritone or quadtone solution is valuable.  
> Harder to start but easy to print once set up.  
> 
> I did get Yarc to write a 6 color independent 
> manual channel driver option for their RIP 
> for the Spectratones before they kinda 
> dissapeared.  
> 
> Anyway if you want to do duotone 
> simulations, "just" get a neutral grayscale, 
> the adjust the color cast in curves in the 
> individual rgb channels.  It's direct, simple 
> but difficult to do well image to image.
> 
> I doubt there is an easier answer.  
> 
> Allen Maertz
> lincolninks.com
> 
> 
> Message: 4
>    Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0000
>    From: tyork@a...
> Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim 
> York: re:papers
> 
> Martin, 
> 
> As I mentioned I e-mailed View Camera but 
> they didn't know anything 
> about the article. I'm not sure where to go 
> now. I read Allen's 
> comment to you but don't have the book. Oh 
> well, C'est la vie.
> 
> Tim

Tim,

Give this a try. Just a starting point.

Convert a grayscale to RGB.

Create a Levels adjustment layer. Switch to the Red channel and set 
the center gamma slider to about 1.10.

Create a second Levels layer and set the Blue gamma to 1.10.

Vary the Opacity of the two adjustment layers to get the tone you 
want.

Unless your monitor is closely color calibrated there will be a lot 
of trial printing to get the tone you want.

Because of the lot to lot variations in ink and paper there is not 
firm point for these kinds of adjustments, or at least I have not 
found any yet. This method give more subtle control than just the 
channel adjustments. If you get a split tone, do tone selections and 
adjust those seperately.

No formula, but perhaps a place to start.

Martin



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Hi Allen,
> 
> Thank you for your suggestions. I would like to achieve a b/w with 
as 
> close to a selenium look as possible. I know that is difficult 
> because of it's subjectivity but I think you know what i mean. The 
> blue/purplish blacks and deep,rich grays that you could almost 
scoop 
> the gray out of. Paper plays a big part to the look I'm trying to 
> achieve, but if I can come close I will be happy.
>  Using the duotones will also allow me to print color when I 
> need/want to. If I can't get this then I will buy a second printer, 
> but that still wouldn't get me my selenium-toned prints. Thanks 
again.

> 
> 
> Tim 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., allentakichi@e... wrote:
> > Tim,
> > 
> > The Blatner and Frasier book is invaluable 
> > for understanding color management and 
> > how photoshop works and I'd recommend it 
> > even if you had zero interest in duotones.
> > 
> > I get the feeling that you are actually 
> > interested in duotone simulations using the 
> > colored inks.  This and neutral printing with 
> > colored inks is probably the ultimate difficult 
> > thing to do well.  That's why a real duotone, 
> > tritone or quadtone solution is valuable.  
> > Harder to start but easy to print once set up.  
> > 
> > I did get Yarc to write a 6 color independent 
> > manual channel driver option for their RIP 
> > for the Spectratones before they kinda 
> > dissapeared.  
> > 
> > Anyway if you want to do duotone 
> > simulations, "just" get a neutral grayscale, 
> > the adjust the color cast in curves in the 
> > individual rgb channels.  It's direct, simple 
> > but difficult to do well image to image.
> > 
> > I doubt there is an easier answer.  
> > 
> > Allen Maertz
> > lincolninks.com
> > 
> > 
> > Message: 4
> >    Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0000
> >    From: tyork@a...
> > Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim 
> > York: re:papers
> > 
> > Martin, 
> > 
> > As I mentioned I e-mailed View Camera but 
> > they didn't know anything 
> > about the article. I'm not sure where to go 
> > now. I read Allen's 
> > comment to you but don't have the book. Oh 
> > well, C'est la vie.
> > 
> > Tim

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your suggestion. I am grateful for any and all help. If 
I can get close to the quality I saw in that seleniun print years ago 
I will be a happy camper. When I get something that I feel is pretty 
good I will be glad to share it with the list as a kind of payback 
for the help you guys have given me. Thanks again.

Tim













--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> Tim,
> 
> Give this a try. Just a starting point.
> 
> Convert a grayscale to RGB.
> 
> Create a Levels adjustment layer. Switch to the Red channel and set 
> the center gamma slider to about 1.10.
> 
> Create a second Levels layer and set the Blue gamma to 1.10.
> 
> Vary the Opacity of the two adjustment layers to get the tone you 
> want.
> 
> Unless your monitor is closely color calibrated there will be a lot 
> of trial printing to get the tone you want.
> 
> Because of the lot to lot variations in ink and paper there is not 
> firm point for these kinds of adjustments, or at least I have not 
> found any yet. This method give more subtle control than just the 
> channel adjustments. If you get a split tone, do tone selections 
and 
> adjust those seperately.
> 
> No formula, but perhaps a place to start.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> > Hi Allen,
> > 
> > Thank you for your suggestions. I would like to achieve a b/w 
with 
> as 
> > close to a selenium look as possible. I know that is difficult 
> > because of it's subjectivity but I think you know what i mean. 
The 
> > blue/purplish blacks and deep,rich grays that you could almost 
> scoop 
> > the gray out of. Paper plays a big part to the look I'm trying to 
> > achieve, but if I can come close I will be happy.
> >  Using the duotones will also allow me to print color when I 
> > need/want to. If I can't get this then I will buy a second 
printer, 

> > but that still wouldn't get me my selenium-toned prints. Thanks 
> again.
> > 
> > 
> > Tim 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., allentakichi@e... wrote:
> > > Tim,
> > > 
> > > The Blatner and Frasier book is invaluable 
> > > for understanding color management and 
> > > how photoshop works and I'd recommend it 
> > > even if you had zero interest in duotones.
> > > 
> > > I get the feeling that you are actually 
> > > interested in duotone simulations using the 
> > > colored inks.  This and neutral printing with 
> > > colored inks is probably the ultimate difficult 
> > > thing to do well.  That's why a real duotone, 
> > > tritone or quadtone solution is valuable.  
> > > Harder to start but easy to print once set up.  
> > > 
> > > I did get Yarc to write a 6 color independent 
> > > manual channel driver option for their RIP 
> > > for the Spectratones before they kinda 
> > > dissapeared.  
> > > 
> > > Anyway if you want to do duotone 
> > > simulations, "just" get a neutral grayscale, 
> > > the adjust the color cast in curves in the 
> > > individual rgb channels.  It's direct, simple 
> > > but difficult to do well image to image.
> > > 
> > > I doubt there is an easier answer.  
> > > 
> > > Allen Maertz
> > > lincolninks.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Message: 4
> > >    Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0000
> > >    From: tyork@a...
> > > Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim 
> > > York: re:papers
> > > 
> > > Martin, 
> > > 
> > > As I mentioned I e-mailed View Camera but 
> > > they didn't know anything 
> > > about the article. I'm not sure where to go 
> > > now. I read Allen's 
> > > comment to you but don't have the book. Oh 
> > > well, C'est la vie.
> > > 
> > > Tim

Tim,

Definitely let us know how it goes and ask away if any new questions 
come to mind. The group adds new members every day and hopefully 
there will be more people working along your lines.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> 
> Thank you for your suggestion. I am grateful for any and all help. 
If 
> I can get close to the quality I saw in that seleniun print years 
ago 
> I will be a happy camper. When I get something that I feel is 
pretty 
> good I will be glad to share it with the list as a kind of payback 
> for the help you guys have given me. Thanks again.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> > Tim,
> > 
> > Give this a try. Just a starting point.
> > 
> > Convert a grayscale to RGB.
> > 
> > Create a Levels adjustment layer. Switch to the Red channel and 
set 
> > the center gamma slider to about 1.10.
> > 
> > Create a second Levels layer and set the Blue gamma to 1.10.
> > 
> > Vary the Opacity of the two adjustment layers to get the tone you 
> > want.
> > 
> > Unless your monitor is closely color calibrated there will be a 
lot 
> > of trial printing to get the tone you want.
> > 
> > Because of the lot to lot variations in ink and paper there is 
not 
> > firm point for these kinds of adjustments, or at least I have not 
> > found any yet. This method give more subtle control than just the 
> > channel adjustments. If you get a split tone, do tone selections 
> and 
> > adjust those seperately.
> > 
> > No formula, but perhaps a place to start.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> > > Hi Allen,
> > > 
> > > Thank you for your suggestions. I would like to achieve a b/w 
> with 
> > as 
> > > close to a selenium look as possible. I know that is difficult 
> > > because of it's subjectivity but I think you know what i mean. 
> The 
> > > blue/purplish blacks and deep,rich grays that you could almost 
> > scoop 
> > > the gray out of. Paper plays a big part to the look I'm trying 
to 
> > > achieve, but if I can come close I will be happy.
> > >  Using the duotones will also allow me to print color when I 
> > > need/want to. If I can't get this then I will buy a second 
> printer, 
> > > but that still wouldn't get me my selenium-toned prints. Thanks 
> > again.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Tim 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., allentakichi@e... 
wrote:

> > > > Tim,
> > > > 
> > > > The Blatner and Frasier book is invaluable 
> > > > for understanding color management and 
> > > > how photoshop works and I'd recommend it 
> > > > even if you had zero interest in duotones.
> > > > 
> > > > I get the feeling that you are actually 
> > > > interested in duotone simulations using the 
> > > > colored inks.  This and neutral printing with 
> > > > colored inks is probably the ultimate difficult 
> > > > thing to do well.  That's why a real duotone, 
> > > > tritone or quadtone solution is valuable.  
> > > > Harder to start but easy to print once set up.  
> > > > 
> > > > I did get Yarc to write a 6 color independent 
> > > > manual channel driver option for their RIP 
> > > > for the Spectratones before they kinda 
> > > > dissapeared.  
> > > > 
> > > > Anyway if you want to do duotone 
> > > > simulations, "just" get a neutral grayscale, 
> > > > the adjust the color cast in curves in the 
> > > > individual rgb channels.  It's direct, simple 
> > > > but difficult to do well image to image.
> > > > 
> > > > I doubt there is an easier answer.  
> > > > 
> > > > Allen Maertz
> > > > lincolninks.com
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Message: 4
> > > >    Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0000
> > > >    From: tyork@a...
> > > > Subject: Duotone Workflows was Re: Tim 
> > > > York: re:papers
> > > > 
> > > > Martin, 
> > > > 
> > > > As I mentioned I e-mailed View Camera but 
> > > > they didn't know anything 
> > > > about the article. I'm not sure where to go 
> > > > now. I read Allen's 
> > > > comment to you but don't have the book. Oh 
> > > > well, C'est la vie.
> > > > 
> > > > Tim