Digital BW, The Print

From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QTR2 for Linux


> Ernst,
>
> >...
> > that strange spraying happens with all the three 9x00
> >printers a friend and I have loaded with Eboni black. ...
>
> Is it possible there was some residual dye on the parking
pads -- even maybe
> the dyes that were in the old black pigmented inks?  I think
Eboni on the
> pads can react with old dye and make solids that then stick
onto the heads.
> I had some problems with a 1280 that had been using dyes, and
it was
> eliminated as soon as I thoroughly rinsed/cleaned the pads
(with Windex --
> an ammonia solution, I think).
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

We did a lot of work in cleaning the CIS systems at the change
between the old ink and the Ultratone. It is correct that the
Generations black is 25% dye and on one system the change was
from Epson dye to Ultratone. But on two systems we renewed the
black head to see whether that made any difference, it didn't
(the heads were cleaned with Windex as well). Two 9000's are
running Ultratone, the other one MIS 7600. All colours will print
excellent but not the Eboni black. I have another untouched pint
of the same Eboni black delivery but I wouldn't like to see the
same symptoms when we use that one. The best prints I got was
when it was really hot in the Netherlands, looks like the ink
needs a warmer environment to flow. I guess the pigmentation of
the Eboni black is at the edge of what is still printable with
the 9000. The alignment and nozzle check patterns show shaky
lines for the black with a lot of droplets thrown around them at
random. The nozzles don't clogg. Could be an electrostatic charge
issue too. I wrote MIS about it before the weekend but they have
not replied yet. A recent delivery of MIS 7600 ink runs smoothly
in 9600's. Bob had some reservations about the use of Ultratone
ink in 9000's when we ordered the inks in March. We were aware of
the testing stage so it is certainly not a complaint. But it
surprised me that there was never a similar message on this list.

Ernst

> The alignment and nozzle check patterns show shaky
> lines for the black with a lot of droplets thrown around them at
> random. The nozzles don't clogg. 
> Ernst

From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Eboni black spray, was QTR2 for
Linux


> Ernst,

> > I guess the pigmentation of the Eboni black is at
> >the edge of what is still printable with the 9000.
>
> Perhaps.  I know of at least one person running a 9500 with
Ultra Tone inks.
> I have test strips from this machine, and they are nearly
perfect.  We found
> that the 9500 can use the 9000 driver and then use the 7500 UT
curves I made
> for my machine -- using the 7000 driver.

> You once mentioned that the 7500 used a higher head voltage
than the 7000,
> or something like that. I think you said it was a firmware
difference.  Is
> it possible this difference between the 7500 and 7000 could
have something
> to do with the different results we are seeing?  Is it possible
that the
> 9000 could be altered with this firmware change and have it
work better with
> the pigmented inks?
>

We had a firmware upgrade on one 9000 to make it into a 9500. The
same printer had a head change. That's the one running MIS 7600.
It didn't change anything with the black. I did exchange some
emails with people that have an even better knowledge of Epson
9X00 hardware and there seems to be less difference between the
9000 and the 9500 than I thought. Not much more than a better
cleaning mode and the dye/pigment cart sensor activated. So it is
dubious that a higher voltage is used on x500 models. At least it
didn't change the black spray problem on this printer.

> >The alignment and nozzle check patterns show shaky
> >lines for the black with a lot of droplets thrown around them
at
> >random.
>
> I don't see that with my printers.  When I so see things like
that, I think
> of surface garbage on the heads and do a Windex-wet paper towel
cleaning of
> the heads.

> I hope you find a fix for this problem, because it sounds like
it might
> affect a number of people.  Do you know of any 7000 UT or Eboni
users?

There still is one thing that may be different to most
7000/7500/9500 models around as the printers we have are very
early 9000 models. August and September 1999. They got new
motherboards then as there was a conflict with network cards on
the early machines but they still are very early 9000 models and
I guess that could have something to do with it. Even with
Generations ink it was sometimes hard to print a black without
white hairlines.

Somewhere in the service manual is a reference to the D/A voltage
setting for the heads. Meant for the manufacturing stage of the
printer though. If I get desperate I may do something like that.

Ernst

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:47 PM
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QTR2 for Linux
> 
> > Ernst,
> >
> > >...
> > > that strange spraying happens with all the three 9x00
> > >printers a friend and I have loaded with Eboni black. ...
> >
> > Is it possible there was some residual dye on the parking
> pads -- even maybe
> > the dyes that were in the old black pigmented inks?  I think
> Eboni on the
> > pads can react with old dye and make solids that then stick
> onto the heads.
> > I had some problems with a 1280 that had been using dyes, and
> it was
> > eliminated as soon as I thoroughly rinsed/cleaned the pads
> (with Windex --
> > an ammonia solution, I think).
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> Paul,
> 
> We did a lot of work in cleaning the CIS systems at the change
> between the old ink and the Ultratone. It is correct that the
> Generations black is 25% dye and on one system the change was
> from Epson dye to Ultratone. But on two systems we renewed the
> black head to see whether that made any difference, it didn't
> (the heads were cleaned with Windex as well). Two 9000's are
> running Ultratone, the other one MIS 7600. All colours will print
> excellent but not the Eboni black. I have another untouched pint
> of the same Eboni black delivery but I wouldn't like to see the
> same symptoms when we use that one. The best prints I got was
> when it was really hot in the Netherlands, looks like the ink
> needs a warmer environment to flow. I guess the pigmentation of
> the Eboni black is at the edge of what is still printable with
> the 9000. The alignment and nozzle check patterns show shaky
> lines for the black with a lot of droplets thrown around them at
> random. The nozzles don't clogg. Could be an electrostatic charge
> issue too. I wrote MIS about it before the weekend but they have
> not replied yet. A recent delivery of MIS 7600 ink runs smoothly
> in 9600's. Bob had some reservations about the use of Ultratone
> ink in 9000's when we ordered the inks in March. We were aware of
> the testing stage so it is certainly not a complaint. But it
> surprised me that there was never a similar message on this list.
> 
> Ernst
> 
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> Ernst,
> 
> I had a similar problem here with Epson 3000. The black ink 
> was over spraying on one side on carriage return. I thought 
> the printed was broken, but I tried with dye inks and 
> everything is just fine. I didn't complain because the UT-WM
> inks are experimental.  
> 
> Kemal
>

From: "Kemal Delic" <k.delic@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Eboni black spray, was QTR2 for
Linux


> Ernst,
>
> I had a similar problem here with Epson 3000. The black ink
> was over spraying on one side on carriage return. I thought
> the printed was broken, but I tried with dye inks and
> everything is just fine. I didn't complain because the UT-WM
> inks are experimental.
>
> Kemal

Kemal and Alex,

Thank you for the messages.
I may have some solutions to the problem and when that helps I
will report back.

Ernst

> 
> Kemal,
> I had a similar problem ( posted a few days ago ).
> What greyscale inks are you using in your E3000?
> Thanks,
> Alex
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Kemal Delic <k.
> delic@t...> wrote:
> > Ernst,
> >
> > I had a similar problem here with Epson 3000. The black ink
> > was over spraying on one side on carriage return. I thought
> > the printed was broken, but I tried with dye inks and
> > everything is just fine. I didn't complain because the UT-WM
> > inks are experimental.
> >
> > Kemal
> >

> Alex,
> 
> I first started with Cone's Piezo inks and it was very expensive
> disaster because of clogging.
> 
> > >
> > > Kemal
> > >