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Re: [Digital BW] 16 bit vs 8 bit difference, Re Glen Mitchell´s posting

Re: [Digital BW] 16 bit vs 8 bit difference, Re Glen Mitchell´s posting

2004-01-04 by Bob Frost

Anthony,

The Minolta 5400 and Nikon 5000 scanners claim to be 16-bit, and my graphics
card (Matrox P750) claims to be 10-bit.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...>
>
>  No commonly available display or
> printing technology allows you to clearly distinguish more than 8 bits
> of tonality in the result.  No commonly available image capture system
> allows you to capture more than about 12-14 bits in the original image
> (with electronic cameras, the limitation is the image sensor; with film,
> the limitation is the scanner).

RE: [Digital BW] 16 bit vs 8 bit difference, Re Glen Mitchell´s posting

2004-01-04 by Austin Franklin

Hi Bob,

I know Nikon uses a 16 bit A/D, so that claim is true...but...they also
*claim* a density range of 4.8.  This density range claim just simply is not
true.  They are basing this *claim* on using a 16 A/D, not on any actual
results from the scanner.

What matters is how many bits of data are *usable*, and at best, they are
really only going to be able to get 14 usable bits.  You could put a 24 bit
A/D there...but it simply would not increase the density range capabilities
of the scanner.  What's more important than the A/D is the sensor, and the
analog front end...and if the sensor and analog front end can't provide a
low enough noise signal for the number of bits the A/D has, those "extra"
bits are simply unusable.

This has been a bone of contention in the digital imaging industry for some
time, and why the ISO has come up with a way of characterizing the actual
density range of a scanner using actual testing, instead of the
manufacturers erroneously using simply the bit width of their data path, or
of the A/D converter to make their density range claim.

Regards,

Austin
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Frost [mailto:bobfrost@...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:22 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 16 bit vs 8 bit difference, Re Glen Mitchell\ufffds
> posting
>
>
> Anthony,
>
> The Minolta 5400 and Nikon 5000 scanners claim to be 16-bit, and
> my graphics
> card (Matrox P750) claims to be 10-bit.
>
> Bob Frost.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...>
> >
> >  No commonly available display or
> > printing technology allows you to clearly distinguish more than 8 bits
> > of tonality in the result.  No commonly available image capture system
> > allows you to capture more than about 12-14 bits in the original image
> > (with electronic cameras, the limitation is the image sensor; with film,
> > the limitation is the scanner).
>
>
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Re[2]: [Digital BW] 16 bit vs 8 bit difference, Re Glen Mitchell´s posting

2004-01-05 by Anthony G. Atkielski

Bob Frost writes:

> The Minolta 5400 and Nikon 5000 scanners claim to
> be 16-bit, and my graphics card (Matrox P750)
> claims to be 10-bit.

Graphics cards are largely digital devices so they can easily be any
number of bits; how good they are at actually generating 65,536
different voltage levels for each color channel on output is a different
matter.  No monitor can reliably display data with that kind of
resolution, anyway.

The same is true for a scanner.  It could be set up to provide 16 bits
of output, but whether those low-order bits are actually useful or not
is debatable.  Still, if a device isn't built to provide them, you're
guaranteed not to get them, whereas if it _is_ built to provide them,
you've at least got a chance of getting them (the hardware design
doesn't limit you, although the build quality might).

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