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2004-05-21 by Roy Harrington
I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. Roy
2004-05-21 by Clayton Jones
Hello Roy, >I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various >inksets and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of >prints. > > http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html Great job, this will be a valuable resource. Kudos and thanks for doing this. Regards, Clayton Info on black and white digital printing at http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
2004-05-22 by Paul Roark
Roy, Thanks for posting the excellent comparison. Paul www.PaulRoark.com ______________________
-----Original Message----- From: Roy Harrington [mailto:roy@...] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:52 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. Roy Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2004-05-22 by Tom Husband
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote: > > I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets > and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. > > http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html > > Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. > > Roy Very interesting. Even stepping back 10 feet or so there seems to be quite a difference between the methods to me. Nice work Roy. Thanks! Tom
2004-05-22 by Ernst Dinkla
Roy Harrington wrote: > I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets > and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. > > http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html > > Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. > > Roy Roy, good job, thank you. The 7500 sample with QTR / Ultratone custom set "dark blue dots noticible". Is that the one where you don't use a Light Toner ? Ernst
2004-05-22 by Bernhard Sch.
Funny, if I had seen this before, I would have purchased another 1160 to replace my broken one instead of a 1290... My own experniences so far indicate the same thing: The 1290 is on par with the 1160 on matte, but inferior on semigloss paper. thanks and regards, Bernie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:51 AM Subject: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. Roy Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2004-05-22 by Roy Harrington
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote: > Roy Harrington wrote: > > I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets > > and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. > > > > http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html > > > > Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. > > > > Roy > > Roy, good job, thank you. > > The 7500 sample with QTR / Ultratone custom set "dark blue dots > noticible". Is that the one where you don't use a Light Toner ? > > Ernst Yes. I have just the UT1 dark blue toner because I used the other slot for a sepia toner. It's very subtle in a real print -- just about invisible. Not a single person who has seen my prints has ever mentioned it. As I don't need quite that much blue color I've been thinking of mixing a 50/50 of the two blue toners. This way the dots will be lighter and there will be more of them which will have a smoothing effect. Roy
2004-05-22 by Roy Harrington
Bernie, Did you do semigloss on the 1160? What ink? I'd be surprised that the 1290 couldn't do as well. (surprises happen though :) Roy --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bernhard Sch." <albatros- @g...> wrote: > Funny, > if I had seen this before, I would have purchased another 1160 to replace my > broken one instead of a 1290... My own experniences so far indicate the same > thing: The 1290 is on par with the 1160 on matte, but inferior on semigloss > paper. > > thanks and > regards, > > Bernie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:51 AM > Subject: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots > > > > I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets > and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. > > http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html > > Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. > > Roy > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links
2004-05-22 by Paul Roark
Bernie, You wrote: >...if I had seen this before, I would have purchased another 1160 >to replace my broken one instead of a 1290... My own experniences so far >indicate the same thing: The 1290 is on par with the 1160 on matte, but >inferior on Semigloss paper. The 1290 with the VM or UT 1 inkset is even smoother in the highlights. However, in your earlier posts you indicated the lighter tones of your 1290 UT2 prints were fine. I though the problems you were having were in the midtones. In that area the 1160 has no advantage. The UT2 and UT7 inksets go for flexibility, ease of use, and more reliable curves (among other things) over ultimate highlight smoothness. I think it is a good trade that most will appreciate. The light UT2 & 7 inks have densities that are between the old vm hextone Y and LC densities. They are essentially the Epson light ink densities. However, since there is far less color difference, the UT2 & 7 inksets print smoother than the Epson printers with color inks -- which most consider smooth. I think most will find the UT2 and UT7 highlights to be smooth enough. The 1290 is also, in my experience, much smoother than the 1160 in the shadow tones. My 1160 appeared to be a modern variable-dot printer in the highlights, but not where the black ink started. It was very rough there compared to the 1280 and 1290. I suspect those who like BO printing will consider the 1280 and 1290 to be much better than the 1160. The VM-S inkset also shows the toner dots less than the standard vm. I used the VM-S in my 3000 for a long time with very good results. However, I found the UT1 to be too rough for my liking in the 3000. With the VM-S the blue toner is mixed into the gray inks. As such, there are no color differences between the inks when it is in its "neutral" setting. However, with the standard VM or UT inks, to get to neutral requires the blue toner to be in the mix. When it is there, those blue dots are what critical viewers see with the old quadtone printers. The 1160 VM-S highlights Roy is showing are probably with it the "neutral" curve. This is going to look substantially smoother than if the 1160 had a standard VM or UT1 inkset in it and was using the neutral curve. Bernie, I think the issues you raised yesterday indicate a problem with your particular setup or carts. Have you checked to see if the cart is one of the defective lot? Paul www.PaulRoark.com For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see: http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ _____________________________________
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:51 AM Subject: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. Roy Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2004-05-22 by Bernhard Sch.
Roy, I printed on Semigloss with the UT1 inkset - before I could finish the ink bottles my 1160 broke down, as I reported here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/45240 ... there is an issue with the neutral tones and semigloss on the 1290. On matte both printers give equal and excellent results, on semigloss the "no curves/ sliders" approach and the neutral curves are inferior to the 1160 results. But again: It may still be an issue related to the 1280 curves not perfectly working with the 1290. But I must say again that I was extremely happy with the 1160 results - they were very close to perfect. If I dont get the 1290 working at that level I might switch back to another 1160 (which is still regulary sold in Germany, and rather cheap). Only disadvantage on the 1160 is the non- availability of borderless printing, but I actually never need this really... Regards Bernie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots Bernie, Did you do semigloss on the 1160? What ink? I'd be surprised that the 1290 couldn't do as well. (surprises happen though :)
2004-05-22 by Bernhard Sch.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots >Bernie, I think the issues you raised yesterday indicate a problem with your >particular setup or carts. Have you checked to see if the cart is one of >the defective lot? Paul, as I already asked yesterday: Where do I find the lot number? DO I have to take the CFS cart out of the printer, and, is this recommended? From the outside (with the carts in the left position of course) I cant see a number on it. Thanks, Bernie
2004-05-22 by Ernst Dinkla
Roy Harrington wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> > wrote: > >>Roy Harrington wrote: >> >>>I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets >>>and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. >>> >>>http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html >>> >>>Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. >>> >>>Roy >> >>Roy, good job, thank you. >> >>The 7500 sample with QTR / Ultratone custom set "dark blue dots >>noticible". Is that the one where you don't use a Light Toner ? >> >>Ernst > > > Yes. I have just the UT1 dark blue toner because I used the other > slot for a sepia toner. It's very subtle in a real print -- just about > invisible. Not a single person who has seen my prints has ever mentioned > it. As I don't need quite that much blue color I've been thinking of > mixing a 50/50 of the two blue toners. This way the dots will be lighter > and there will be more of them which will have a smoothing effect. > > Roy That way you will get more ink above 50% to get the same tone I guess, so you limit the blue tone to get no bleeding. Roy, would it be possible to use your image 1/4 x 1/4 inch for making a sample here. Ultratone VM, Wasatch SoftRip 4.5, my custom curves, Epson 9000, HPR. It will not be entirely the same setup with an Epson 3200 scanner but nevertheless ... Ernst
2004-05-22 by Roy Harrington
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote: > Roy Harrington wrote: > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> > > wrote: > > > >>Roy Harrington wrote: > >> > >>>I've been collecting a set of prints from various printers, various inksets > >>>and various workflows. Here's a bunch of hi res scans of prints. > >>> > >>>http://harrington.com/dotscans/dotsdots.html > >>> > >>>Most of the variations are very subtle to the naked eye. > >>> > >>>Roy > >> > >>Roy, good job, thank you. > >> > >>The 7500 sample with QTR / Ultratone custom set "dark blue dots > >>noticible". Is that the one where you don't use a Light Toner ? > >> > >>Ernst > > > > > > Yes. I have just the UT1 dark blue toner because I used the other > > slot for a sepia toner. It's very subtle in a real print -- just about > > invisible. Not a single person who has seen my prints has ever mentioned > > it. As I don't need quite that much blue color I've been thinking of > > mixing a 50/50 of the two blue toners. This way the dots will be lighter > > and there will be more of them which will have a smoothing effect. > > > > Roy > > That way you will get more ink above 50% to get the same tone I > guess, so you limit the blue tone to get no bleeding. > > Roy, would it be possible to use your image 1/4 x 1/4 inch for > making a sample here. Ultratone VM, Wasatch SoftRip 4.5, my > custom curves, Epson 9000, HPR. It will not be entirely the same > setup with an Epson 3200 scanner but nevertheless ... > > Ernst That would be great. I'd love to see some more comparisons. The test file is at: http://harrington.com/technical.psd.zip All prints were done with no manipulation of the file. All full page. They were are scanned using an Epson 3200 at the 1200 dpi setting. using the ordinary Twain plugin of Photoshop. I let the software pick the endpoints with Auto -- I think you need the full page to get good endpoints so the preview can see the full range of densities. Roy
2004-05-22 by Paul Roark
Bernie, I'm not sure where the lot # is. Since you have a CFS, I'm not sure the problem would apply to you anyway. Yesterday you described the problem as follows: "...in the darker grey zones - like shaded zones of skin - I get a relatively coarse black grain which looks a bit like "snake skin" ..." I have a 1290 on loan here, so I printed a 21-step test file on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl with the 1290 and UT2 inkset. I used the 1280 UT2 neutral curve that is designed to print on that paper even though Eboni is installed in the printer. The 1290 print looks very much like the 1280 print. With a magnifying hood, I can see the dots. They look about the same as the 1280 dots. I doubt these are what you're referring to, however. I don't have a working 1160 any more, but I'd be very surprised if the 1160 shadows are better. Do others find the 1280 shadow dots with the 1280, UT2, and Ilford Pearl of Epson Semigloss to be a problem? The 1290 print is a bit darker. The photospectrometer readings give me a 50% density of 0.64. This is just slightly darker than my 0.61 target. On the 1280 it's coming in a bit light today at 0.57. The 1290 75% patch reads 1.13, which is darker than the 1.04 of the 1280. The 1290 dmax is 2.32; the 95% comes in at 2.01. This separation could be better, but in good light it's not that far off. On the 1280 the 95% patch is 1.92. The "snake skin" look you describe reminds me more of what I'd expect if the paper were being over-saturated with too much ink. The Ilford Pearl is sensitive to this, which is why we use the "Photo Quality Ink Jet" paper type setting with it. The Epson Premium Semigloss, however, should be able to take the full "Photo Paper" setting ink load. So, bottom line, I don't know what is causing the effect you're seeing. I suspect it is more than the very small dots that are in the UT2 shadows. I would like to hear from others as to whether they think the UT2 is too rough in the shadows. Paul www.PaulRoark.com For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see: http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ ____________________________________
-----Original Message----- From: Bernhard Sch. [mailto:albatros-@...] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:42 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:25 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots >Bernie, I think the issues you raised yesterday indicate a problem with your >particular setup or carts. Have you checked to see if the cart is one of >the defective lot? Paul, as I already asked yesterday: Where do I find the lot number? DO I have to take the CFS cart out of the printer, and, is this recommended? From the outside (with the carts in the left position of course) I cant see a number on it. Thanks, Bernie Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2004-05-22 by Bernhard Sch.
Paul I will print out the 21-step wedge later and scan it and send it to you. THanks, Bernie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots Bernie, I'm not sure where the lot # is. Since you have a CFS, I'm not sure the problem would apply to you anyway. Yesterday you described the problem as follows: "...in the darker grey zones - like shaded zones of skin - I get a relatively coarse black grain which looks a bit like "snake skin" ..." I have a 1290 on loan here, so I printed a 21-step test file on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl with the 1290 and UT2 inkset. I used the 1280 UT2 neutral curve that is designed to print on that paper even though Eboni is installed in the printer. The 1290 print looks very much like the 1280 print. With a magnifying hood, I can see the dots. They look about the same as the 1280 dots. I doubt these are what you're referring to, however.
2004-05-22 by Paul Roark
Bernie, Great, put the exact scan resolution, Jpeg compression level, etc. on the print or in the e-mail, and I'll try to duplicate the scan here of the Ilford Pearl test strip I did so we can compare what we are getting. Paul www.PaulRoark.com For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see: http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ _________________________
-----Original Message----- From: Bernhard Sch. [mailto:albatros-@...] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:36 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots Paul I will print out the 21-step wedge later and scan it and send it to you. THanks, Bernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots Bernie, I'm not sure where the lot # is. Since you have a CFS, I'm not sure the problem would apply to you anyway. Yesterday you described the problem as follows: "...in the darker grey zones - like shaded zones of skin - I get a relatively coarse black grain which looks a bit like "snake skin" ..." I have a 1290 on loan here, so I printed a 21-step test file on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl with the 1290 and UT2 inkset. I used the 1280 UT2 neutral curve that is designed to print on that paper even though Eboni is installed in the printer. The 1290 print looks very much like the 1280 print. With a magnifying hood, I can see the dots. They look about the same as the 1280 dots. I doubt these are what you're referring to, however. Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2004-05-22 by Daniel Staver
Is this the type of texture you're seeing in the shadows? http://daniel.staver.no/img/ut7ilfordsmooth01.jpg (365kb) I just got my UT7 inkset today, and I get some noticable texturing in the shadows. The paper is Ilford Smooth Pearl, printed with the neutral curve. Scanned at 1800dpi on an Epson 3200. I'll try some Premium Semigloss next and see if the same thing happens there... -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-05-22 by Bernhard Sch.
Daniel, as you probably use the Epson 2100 (as you say UT7?) the dither pattern may be slightly different, but yes, its quite similar. I would be very interested to know what results you get with the "carbon" curve. For me the carbon curve prints are very close to perfect, however I find the "carbon" tone too warm most of the time. Also what paper setting did you use? I now found that "photo" paper makes the pattern come out stronger than photo quality ink jet paper... I have printed out the 21step wedge on Ilford smooth pearl, I just want to let it dry before I put it on my homepage... Bernie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:58 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots Is this the type of texture you're seeing in the shadows? http://daniel.staver.no/img/ut7ilfordsmooth01.jpg (365kb) I just got my UT7 inkset today, and I get some noticable texturing in the shadows. The paper is Ilford Smooth Pearl, printed with the neutral curve. Scanned at 1800dpi on an Epson 3200. I'll try some Premium Semigloss next and see if the same thing happens there... -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-05-22 by Daniel Staver
Just found out that switching off 'High speed' and printing at 2880 instead of 1440 seems to improve matters a lot. As far as I can tell the shadows are now perfectly smooth. It's awfully slow though... At 1440 there is still some texturing, even when 'High speed' is switched off. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-05-22 by Bernhard Sch.
Daniel, what is your paper setting? The only paper I can choose 2880 from (on the 1290) is "photo paper" - however as I wrote in my last message, "photo quality ink jet paper" gives me better results. Bernie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:10 PM Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Dots and More Dots Just found out that switching off 'High speed' and printing at 2880 instead of 1440 seems to improve matters a lot. As far as I can tell the shadows are now perfectly smooth. It's awfully slow though... At 1440 there is still some texturing, even when 'High speed' is switched off. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-05-22 by Daniel Staver
> Daniel, what is your paper setting? The only paper I can > choose 2880 from (on the 1290) is "photo paper" - however as > I wrote in my last message, "photo quality ink jet paper" > gives me better results. I'm using Archival Matte Paper as the paper setting. On the 2100 this resolution is available in most of the paper settings. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-05-22 by Daniel Staver
I just received my UT7 inkset today. I'm not using the MIS carts, but cleaned and refilled Epson cartridges, so I can't report on that part of the setup. I like the Epson carts because they seem to last practically forever and they're self-sealing so I don't have to worry about spilling ink when I take them out. The print quality is excellent. I don't actually have too many comments on this, except that the quality is as good as I've come to expect from my previous UT1 inkset. The additional tones possible with the sepia toner is a really feature though. More about that below. I like being able to print on glossy papers without switching inks. It's painfully slow to print at 2880dpi, but the deep blacks really do make a big difference on some images, so the wait is worth it. I guess now I'll have to look into getting a spray to eliminate the bronzing. Also, the pizza wheel marks are present as always, anyone know how to get rid of those on the 2100? I've seen removal instructions for other printer models, but not this one. What's interesting is that with the new dual-toner capabilities it's possible to replace the sepia toner with other tones. What I did was to replace the sepia toner with a cyan-toned gray and then used that to carefully cool down the "selenium" tone a bit. I like having this ability to not only vary between warm and cool, but also adjust the type of cool tone I get. One thing I wanted to try was to match the tone of Eboni in BO on various papers, and I found that with the dual toner this was possible. On Somerset Velvet Enhanced I was able to accurately match the neutral tone of Eboni by adding slight amounts of cyan toner in the print. Best of all, I can still use all the curves from cool to carbon with no change in tone from the standard inkset, the only thing I lose is the sepia toning capability, but I rarely print sepia toned images anyway, so no great loss. The toner I mixed was 84% UT7 light cyan and 16% MIS 7600 cyan. I just used the ratios for the sepia toner ink on Paul's info page and replaced the yellow and magenta with cyan. Many thanks to Paul for creating another great inkset! So far I'm very happy with the results. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-05-23 by Ernst Dinkla
> That would be great. I'd love to see some more comparisons. > > The test file is at: > http://harrington.com/technical.psd.zip > > All prints were done with no manipulation of the file. All full page. > They were are scanned using an Epson 3200 at the 1200 dpi setting. > using the ordinary Twain plugin of Photoshop. I let the software > pick the endpoints with Auto -- I think you need the full page to get > good endpoints so the preview can see the full range of densities. I hardly ever use the Epson scan software and the plug-in even less so to get it right ........... Auto in the sense of " full auto mode " in the Twain plugin ? Or "professional mode" + all the default settings but 1200 dpi and unsharp mask off. That means in configuration: continuous auto exposure, gamma 1.8, 1 x1 pixel sampling area. There's another thing my 3200 is sharper at 1.7 mm above the glass plate so I will try to get the print there. If your's is sharper at the glass plate or 0.5 mm above it would show. Ernst
2004-05-23 by Roy Harrington
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote: > > > That would be great. I'd love to see some more comparisons. > > > > The test file is at: > > http://harrington.com/technical.psd.zip > > > > All prints were done with no manipulation of the file. All full page. > > They were are scanned using an Epson 3200 at the 1200 dpi setting. > > using the ordinary Twain plugin of Photoshop. I let the software > > pick the endpoints with Auto -- I think you need the full page to get > > good endpoints so the preview can see the full range of densities. > > > > I hardly ever use the Epson scan software and the plug-in even > less so to get it right ........... > > Auto in the sense of " full auto mode " in the Twain plugin ? Or > "professional mode" + all the default settings but 1200 dpi and > unsharp mask off. That means in configuration: continuous auto > exposure, gamma 1.8, 1 x1 pixel sampling area. > > There's another thing my 3200 is sharper at 1.7 mm above the > glass plate so I will try to get the print there. If your's is > sharper at the glass plate or 0.5 mm above it would show. > > Ernst It was the professional mode with default settings. The scans aren't "perfect" or ideal. The idea was just to have a repeatable setting that was good enough to show what dots are there. I had tried a few at 3200 dpi and there's certainly better detail but I don't think they illustrated the issue any better. Also the jpg compression degrades the image somewhat. Roy
2004-05-24 by Paul Roark
Daniel, >I just received my UT7 inkset today. >I'm not using the MIS carts, but cleaned and refilled Epson cartridges, >so I can't report on that part of the setup. I like the Epson carts >because they seem to last practically forever and they're self-sealing >so I don't have to worry about spilling ink when I take them out. >The print quality is excellent. ... I'm glad it's working for you. I'm interested in how you're using the Epson carts. Are they "sponge-free?" How do you clean them out? Does the MIS chip resetter work with them? I assume you bought the carts with Epson ink in them. Did you use the ink or drain it into something? How do you re-fill the carts? It sounds like a great idea that many might want to start doing. The re-sealing outlets should make switching carts that are half full much easier. >... >What's interesting is that with the new dual-toner capabilities it's >possible to replace the sepia toner with other tones. I'm so happy to see others are starting to get into this. Especially if these Epson carts allow us to do this at will, the flexibility of the system will really pay off. The creative control and quality improvements that this opens up are really significant. The open Y-position cart is a big part of the design plan. No one who is a hacker by nature or "alternative process" fan will or should ever be happy with some one else's inkset. Doing an entire inkset is a bit daunting, but one ink is easy. Lots of us old darkroom types are going to love this. >What I did was to replace the sepia toner with a cyan-toned gray and >then used that to carefully cool down the "selenium" tone a bit. ... >The toner I mixed was 84% UT7 light cyan and 16% MIS 7600 cyan. I just >used the ratios for the sepia toner ink on Paul's info page and replaced >the yellow and magenta with cyan. Have fun. Paul www.PaulRoark.com For UT2 & UT7 information, curves, and settings see: http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
2004-05-24 by Daniel Staver
Here's a repost of my instructions on how to refill an original Epson 2100/2200 cartridge. I've added several comments since last time, and changed some of the instructions. Here's what the cartridges look like after modifications: http://daniel.staver.no/img/epsoncartridges.jpg First of all read everything on this link: http://www.anestoday.com/epson2200/ That site explains much better than I can how to refill a 2100/2200 cartridge, and with pictures. I'll assume you've read everything on there above and supplement with my own experiences. I've followed the instructions there almost to the letter, but have adapted some of the procedures to the equipment that is readily available from MIS, and added an additional step of rinsing the cartridges with tap water to prepare them for BW inks. Shopping list from MIS (with MIS part numbers) -------------------------------------------------------------- 1 foot MIS-TUBE-6 - RIBBON TUBING 1 VVF-KIT - Virgin Vacuum Fill Kit (One is enough, but will need replacement after a while) 2 sharp needles. I couldn't find a part number for this, but one is included in the VVF-KIT mentioned above. If you buy two you have enough needles as well. 2 MIS-SYRINGE - 10 cc Plastic Syringe 1 MIS-BADP - MIS BOTTOM FILL ADAPTER 1 SK168 - Universal Chip Resetter 1 CFS-VP - Vacuum Pump Assembly (Used reversed for cleaning the cartridges. Alternatively you can use the VVF kit for this, I just could never figure out how to attach it to my ktichen sink) Where to find the equipment on the MIS site: -------------------------------------------------------------- Accessories: http://inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/accessory.html Chip resetter: http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/qb7.html Miscellaneous equipment: -------------------------------------------------------------- 7 old Epson 2200 cartridges Epoxy glue Drill or heated needle Preparing and rinsing the cartridge for first-time refill -------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Make a hole with a drill or heated needle at the top of the cartridge. The position I use for the hole is the same as the yellow cartridge in this picture: http://anestoday.com/epson2200/Images/replete/3styles.jpg. You don't want to damage the inner membrane of the cartridge, so be careful and put the hole about in the middle of the cartridge, and only just deep enough to break through. Usually you won't be able to tell that it's broken until you start rinsing it with water or filling it with ink, then you'll notice that ink start leaking out from under the sticker side of the cartridge. If that happens you'll have to start over with another cartridge. Also take care to keep the cartridge upright at all times, and don't ever squeeze the cartridge in the printed side, always hold it be the edges. Otherwise ink will flow out of the hole and create a real mess. If this happens just rinse the cartridge under tap water until it's reasonably clean again. This doesn't seem to harm the chip in any way, but make sure it's dry before you put it back into the printer. 2. Cut a 3" piece length of tubing, stick it into the hole and glue it with epoxy to the cartridge, creating an air tight seal around the tubing. 3. Let the cartridge dry for at least an hour, preferably overnight. I'm impatient, so I usually don't wait more than one hour. 4. Rip of the clear plastic sealing around the exit hold of the cartridge. 5. Now it's time to rinse the cartridge of any color ink. First use a 10cc syringe with a bottom fill adapter attached to suck any remaining ink out of the bottom exit hole. Just stick it in there and pull the syringe until all you get is air and foam. This step is optional, you could just start squeezing water through the cartridge, but I find it quicker to remove as much ink as possible before starting with the water. 6. Next, remove the rubber valve inside the bottom exit hole of the cartridge. This is because you want the water to flow freely through the cartridge and out of the exit hole. 7. Fill a 30cc syringe with tap water, attach it to the tubing (you can use the VVF-Kit for this), and squirt it through the cartridge. Repeat until the water coming out of the exit hole is clear. It doesn't seem to important if there is a little color tint to the water, but it should be almost completely clear. I recently made a reversed vacuum pump assembly to speed up the process of cleaning the cartidges. You need to use a LOT of water to completely clear the cartridge, and it's quite tedious to detach the syringe, fill it with water, squeeze the water into the cartridge, detach, refill, etc... With the reversed vacuum pump I avoid all than and can just keep the syringe attached and suck in water from a bowl at the same time. 8. Push air through the cartridge to remove any remaining water. 9. Re-attach the rubber valve. The cartridge is now prepared and ready for refills. This sounds like a lot of work, and the first few times it is. With practice I find I can prepare a complete inkset with 7 cartridges in less than an hour (excluding the time it takes for the epoxy to dry). Refilling the cartridge with ink -------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Attach the VVF-Kit to the tubing. 2. Secure the blue clamp firmly to the tube, making sure that no air gets through. 3. Fill a 10cc syringe with the ink you want and attach a sharp needle to it. Fill it all the way to the top. This should be around 12cc. 4. Attach a sharp needle to a 30cc syringe, put the needle through the tube seal and suck out as much air as you can. This will take some force, if it doesn't you don't have a vacuum, which means air is leaking somewhere. 5. Remove the syringe from the tube seal without letting air back into the cartidge, then repeat the above step once more. (I used to use a 60cc syringe for this, but I find the 30cc syringes easier to work with) 6. By now you should have a good vacuum in the cartridge. Insert the 10cc syringe into the tube seal. If everything is done correctly all the ink will be sucked into the cartridge by itself. If it stops halfway don't try to force more ink into the cartridge, this wil only create a huge mess when your remove the VVF afterwards. Rather try to reinsert the 30cc syringe and create a new vacuum, then repeat the procedure. 7. Remove the blue clamp, and then the VVF. By removing the blue clamp first the remaining vacuum will disappear, and some air will be sucked into the cartridge along with any ink remaining in the tubes. This is handy, since it means you'll avoid lot of ink spilling all over the place once you remove the VVF. 8. Use an empty 10cc syringe with the bottom fill adapter attached to suck ink from the exit hole until you get a solid flow of ink. Stop as soon as you see ink flowing into the syringe, you don't want to remove too much ink from the cartridge, just enough to remove any remaining water or air. This step is only neccessary for a newly prepared cartridge. 9. Use the chip resetter to reset the cartridge. 10. Bend the tube so no ink can come out and use some scotch tape to tape it to the top of cartridge. Be carful when handling the cartridge, just a tiny squeeze can be enough to squeeze ink out of the tubing when the cartridge is full. Clearing clogs after a first time refill -------------------------------------------------------------- If it's the first time you refill a set of cartridges with ink after cleaning them with water it's not unlikely that you will experience moderate to severe clogs in at least some of the cartridges. As soon as the clog clears the cartridge is likely to continue to work fine forever, so this only applies to cartridges that are refilled for the first time. Here's the methods I use to clear these clogs: 1. First I try some cleaning cycles. Not too many though, in my experience some cartridges are just a little stubborn after a first time refill, and cleaning cycles are rarely the way tog et them going again. 2. Most times the best method is to take out the cartridge in question and use an empty 10cc syringe with the bottom fill adapter attached to suck ink from the exit hole until you get a solid flow of ink. Stop as soon as you see ink flowing into the syringe, you don't want to remove too much ink from the cartridge, just enough to remove any remaining water or air. 3. If the clog is really severe I'll suck out all the ink from the cartridge, put the ink back in the bottle and do another refill. That has always solved any remaining problems for me.
2004-05-24 by Daniel Staver
> I'm interested in how you're using the Epson carts. Are they > "sponge-free?" I don't see any sponges in there. Have a look at this page: http://anestoday.com/epson2200/anatomy.htm It describes the anatomy of the cartridge in great detail. > How do you clean them out? Just reposted my instructions on how to clean and refill them. > Does the MIS chip resetter work with them? Yes. > I assume you bought the carts with > Epson ink in them. Did you use the ink or drain it into > something? I've always used the cartridges as a set until at least one of them reads empty, and then cleaned out all of them, but you don't have to. You could just clean out brand new cartridges. I just throw away the ink, but of course you could save the ink in bottles if you wanted to use it for something. > It sounds like a great idea that many might want to start > doing. The re-sealing outlets should make switching carts > that are half full much easier. Very easy. The cartridges are incredibly stable, never spills any inks, and seems to last forever no matter how you store them , or how many times you use them. I have yet to refill a cartridge enough times to break it. I also have one and a half year old cartridges here that still works just fine. I don't store them in any special way, they have just been sitting on top of the speaker in my office the whole time: http://daniel.staver.no/img/epsoncartridges.jpg > I'm so happy to see others are starting to get into this. > Especially if these Epson carts allow us to do this at will, > the flexibility of the system will really pay off. The > creative control and quality improvements that this opens up > are really significant. The open Y-position cart is a big > part of the design plan. No one who is a hacker by nature or > "alternative process" fan will or should ever be happy with > some one else's inkset. Doing an entire inkset is a bit > daunting, but one ink is easy. Lots of us old darkroom types > are going to love this. I was surprised at how easy it was to add the new toner, I really expected it to be more work. It took me less than ten minutes from I got the idea to I had the first print with the toner applied coming out of my printer. Right now I control the toner by making a solid color layer with yellow, set the mode to 'color' and adjust the opacity to vary the tone. 5-10% seems to be just about right. I haven't yet familiarized myself with the new curves, but I'd like to learn how to control the yellow position that way instead. > >The toner I mixed was 84% UT7 light cyan and 16% MIS 7600 > >cyan. I just > >used the ratios for the sepia toner ink on Paul's info page and > >replaced the yellow and magenta with cyan. I've noticed a _very_ slight increase in highlight dots with the new toner. Nothing you'd see unless you had your nose to the print, and even then it's hard to tell, but someone gravely concerned with dots in the highlight might get a slight panic attack over this. I'm wondering whether it would be better to use LC instead of C. I only use the toner at about 5-10% anyway, so I definitely don't need the full strength of the cyan ink. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-05-24 by Paul Roark
Daniel, >> I'm interested in how you're using the Epson carts. Are they >> "sponge-free?" >I don't see any sponges in there. Have a look at this page: >http://anestoday.com/epson2200/anatomy.htm >It describes the anatomy of the cartridge in great detail. It looks like there is a small sponge in there that acts as a filter. I would think getting all the old ink out of that would be a problem. It all seems very complex. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2004-05-24 by Daniel Staver
> >I don't see any sponges in there. Have a look at this page: > >http://anestoday.com/epson2200/anatomy.htm > >It describes the anatomy of the cartridge in great detail. > It looks like there is a small sponge in there that acts as a > filter. I would think getting all the old ink out of that > would be a problem. It takes about one liter of water through the cartridge to get it reasonably clean. I've never had any problems with shifts in tone in any of the BW inksets I've tried, although now that I think of it I did have some problems with my MIS Archival 7600 color inkset that could be caused by residual ink in the cartridge. I might try to start with a fresh set of cartridges and new colors to see if I can do it better this time. I've probably improved my technique somewhat since I refilled the color inkset early last year. > It all seems very complex. Well, it can be a little daunting at first, but you get the hang of it very quickly. And once you've cleaned and prepared the cartridge once, the refill itself is very easy. It just takes a few minutes for each cartridge. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2004-07-11 by Steve Kale
Was browsing some old posts and was not sure if you had this answered. Not sure if this is the problem you are having but you can slot cut ties in the gaps to lift the wheels up and out of the way. Unfortunately the MIS website doesn¹t have a picture. http://www.inksupply.com/shopping.cfm?itemcode=20995&showitem=yes They are regular zip ties cut about 1cm from the stub end. Wedge them in the gaps to lift the wheels up. From: "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> Also, the pizza wheel marks are present as always, anyone know how to get rid of those on the 2100? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-07-11 by Carl Schofield
Here is the picture Steve. I use these on my 2200 and they work fine: http://tinyurl.com/2b24o Carl On Sunday, July 11, 2004, at 05:50 PM, Steve Kale wrote: > Was browsing some old posts and was not sure if you had this answered. > Not > sure if this is the problem you are having but you can slot cut ties > in the > gaps to lift the wheels up and out of the way. Unfortunately the MIS > website doesn�t have a picture. > > http://www.inksupply.com/shopping.cfm?itemcode=20995&showitem=yes > > They are regular zip ties cut about 1cm from the stub end. Wedge them > in > the gaps to lift the wheels up. > > > From: "Daniel Staver" <daniel@...> > Also, the > pizza wheel marks are present as always, anyone know how to get rid of [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2004-07-11 by Bob Michaels
see the picture at http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/2200wh.html Bob --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > Was browsing some old posts and was not sure if you had this answered. Not > sure if this is the problem you are having but you can slot cut ties in the > gaps to lift the wheels up and out of the way. Unfortunately the MIS > website doesn¹t have a picture. > > http://www.inksupply.com/shopping.cfm?itemcode=20995&showitem=yes > > They are regular zip ties cut about 1cm from the stub end. Wedge them in
> the gaps to lift the wheels up. > > > From: "Daniel Staver" <daniel@p...> > Also, the > pizza wheel marks are present as always, anyone know how to get rid of > those on the 2100? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]