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Curve primer needed

Curve primer needed

2004-08-13 by gulstenek

I am now the proud owner of an x-rite 810 densitormeter and am working 
at finessing curves for the papers and quadtone inks I use in my 3000. 
 I have had good success creating curves 'by the seat of my pants' but 
this approach isn't very efficient.  I'm using IJM/OPM but most of the 
questions I have are generic.  

1. Are there more systematic approaches to partitioning these quadtone 
inks than than the recursive print and twiddle that I use now?

2.  Is there a way of pre-determining what the density of a mix of two 
inks will produce?  More generally how do the densities of two inks 
mix.   Does 50% light grey and 50% dark grey lighter or darker than 
50% dark grey.  I suppose the answer is "it depend" but what does it 
depend on?

3. There seems to be more than one set of curves that will produce 
good results (sometimes the light grey is used through almost the 
entire range and sometimes not).  Are there standard approcaches to 
designing curves?

4. Roy seems to use some voodoo or other black magic to create the QTR 
curves mathematically from the relative densities of the inks.  Are 
there set approaches to this or is Roy just extra clever :)

5. In IJC the curve peak can be increased or decreased which I assume 
is setting the amount of ink to a higher or lower level than the ink 
limits that are set earlier in the process.  Is thre a general rule 
why one would adjust the ink limit in preference to adjusting the 
shape of the curve?

6. Is there any recommended reading material? 

As I said I now have a set of curves that work well for the papers and 
ink I use (thank goodness for the linearization function) but in the 
process I now have a bunch of questions I'd like to sort out before 
tackling another printer/ink combination.

Your help, as always, is greatly appreciated.

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-13 by Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek" 
<keving@d...> wrote:

> 1. Are there more systematic approaches to partitioning these quadtone 
> inks than than the recursive print and twiddle that I use now?



Kevin,

it's always good to use an existing profile as a starting point. IJC ships
with several. Use the one closest to your paper/ink/printer combination.
Sometimes all you have to do is grab an existing profile, print the
target for linearization, read it in, save the linearized profile and you're
good to go!

The basic principle is that you want to bring in the next darkest ink when
the "previous" lighter one has reached its peak.  The tradoffs are that
if you bring a darker ink sooner, you may see dots (mostly with older
printers) - or that if you wait until your lighter ink hits its max density 
 before you bring in the darker ink, you may be unnecessarily flooding your 
paper.

A shortcut to forever reading-in densities is to compare your printed
target to an ideal 26 step printed target with approximately similar 
dmax to the paper your are trying to profile.  
It's easy to spot the trouble spots by eye this way and adjust.
When you get where all patches separate well, but the overall
densities don't quite match up, you can read it in and let the linearization
take care of the rest. When you get good at it you may only need to read
the whole scale once or twice at the most to get a very nice profile.
Be sure to calibrate the 810 with its own reference plaque.




> 
> 2.  Is there a way of pre-determining what the density of a mix of two 
> inks will produce?  More generally how do the densities of two inks 
> mix.   Does 50% light grey and 50% dark grey lighter or darker than 
> 50% dark grey.  I suppose the answer is "it depend" but what does it 
> depend on?

Theoretically if a "light" gray is - let's say - half the density of a "darker"
gray, at 50% it will only be the equivalent of 25% density compared to the
darker ink.
So, just doing the math....   50% of such a light gray added to 50%
of the darker gray will make 25+50=75%  That means that their
combination will result in a density equivalent to 75% density of the 
darker ink.

However, none of that is useful in practice - just a way to conceptualize 
the process. What is really hard to predict is the actual density readings
of any combination of inks - and that's where some trial and error
comes into play. There is just too many variables (dot gain for one) to
make a generalized prediction.



> 
> 3. There seems to be more than one set of curves that will produce 
> good results (sometimes the light grey is used through almost the 
> entire range and sometimes not).  Are there standard approcaches to 
> designing curves?


See my first answer: it's about hiding dots without overloading the media.
As an exercise, do a whole curve with black only. Read it and
plot it in the linearization tab.
Then pull the black back to 50% and bring in the lightest gray. Make
a complete functional profile  by, again, ploting and linearizing etc.
With just 2 inks you can play with different starting positions for  the 
black and you will quickly see the effects.
When you find you get dots in the midtones, for example,
 bring in the 3rd gray etc.

There is one big deal in all this and it has to do with shadows:
When the black starts to rise to the 100% position (patch 26)
it wants the minimum amount of other ink to be printing along with
it. If you let the other grays come in at 100% they will not let the
black go down at full strength and you will loose dmax. It's
important  to hit that point just right: you want some gray so you don't
run the risk of seeing white dots if the paper  shows through 
the dithered black at the transition point -
but you want to make sure to keep it to a minimum as you get to 100%.
That appies to all pigment inks I know of and is why when you examine
a profile that comes with IJC, you will see those bell curves for all inks
except black.





> 
> 4. Roy seems to use some voodoo or other black magic to create the QTR 
> curves mathematically from the relative densities of the inks.  Are 
> there set approaches to this or is Roy just extra clever :)

You have to ask Roy that...   but I think he is extra clever anyway <BG>.




> 
> 5. In IJC the curve peak can be increased or decreased which I assume 
> is setting the amount of ink to a higher or lower level than the ink 
> limits that are set earlier in the process.  Is thre a general rule 
> why one would adjust the ink limit in preference to adjusting the 
> shape of the curve?


Ideally you do the first pass on a new ink/paper/printer to determine
how much ink you can lay down and still see a difference from patch
to patch. Most of the times, you'll find that all inks go out to patch 26
except black which hits its max around 14-17.  The limits only make
it so you don't  make a curve expecting that the more ink that's
laid down the higher the density will be on  paper. 

If you make a curve for the black ink for example, set its limits to 26
(= no limit) and pull it all the way up to its max, 
the last bunch of steps in the curve will be meanigless because
they will all produce the same density - since after step 14 (or whatever)
the paper doesn't get any darker. By putting the ink limit to 14 prior
to making the curve, it makes it so the highest point on the curve
never gets past where more ink = more density on paper.
 In effect it moves to patch 26 (the 100% mark) whatever 
density the black ink produced at patch 14 when no limits were set .


However, there is another use for the ink limits:
 Once you make your curves, it sometimes seems that an entire 
ink-curve needs to put out less ink.  Rather than pull down the curve
itself and potentially alter its shape in a way that will introduce errors, 
it's a lot easier to pull down the limits for that ink.
 In fact, when you gain some experience, you may find that, 
even if a gray ink can go to 26 and produce visible density
differerence patch-to-patch, you may choose to set the limit to lower 
values; perhaps 15 or 20. It will give you a little headroom down the line
if you need more ink after you finalize the shape of your curve.





> 
> 6. Is there any recommended reading material? 

I'm not aware of one, other than the pdf manual that ships with IJC.


Hope this helps -


Antonis

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-13 by gulstenek

Antonis-

Thanks for the very detailed answers.  It's very helpful - confirming 
some things I'd thought and giving me more the think about.

Having gone through the first paper with a lot of expirementation the 
following papers, as you suggest, are very straight forward when
based 
on the existing profile.

I don't want to leave the impression that creating the curves is hard 
- it's not.  It's just that having arrived at a very good result, I 
am, for some reason, compelled to worry whether I could make it
better 
:)


<snip>

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-13 by Antonis

Kevin,

just curious: are you using the OS X version of IJC? and if so,
are you making use of the sliders or do you edit curves with
points on them (the "edit" option)?

For starting out, it seems that sliders are best, letting the lin
take care of the bumps.
Down the line, nothing beats the control of editing points on
the ink curves.

Glad my "tutorial" was helpful !

Antonis





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek" 
<keving@d...> wrote:

....
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I don't want to leave the impression that creating the curves is hard 
> - it's not.  It's just that having arrived at a very good result, I 
> am, for some reason, compelled to worry whether I could make it
> better 
> :)
> 
> 
> <snip>

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-13 by Roy Harrington

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek" <keving@d...> wrote:
> Antonis-
> 
> Thanks for the very detailed answers.  It's very helpful - confirming 
> some things I'd thought and giving me more the think about.
> 
> Having gone through the first paper with a lot of expirementation the 
> following papers, as you suggest, are very straight forward when
> based 
> on the existing profile.
> 
> I don't want to leave the impression that creating the curves is hard 
> - it's not.  It's just that having arrived at a very good result, I 
> am, for some reason, compelled to worry whether I could make it
> better 
> :)
> 


Hi Kevin,

I think Antonis' description is very much the general idea.

The difficulty I think is mainly figuring how much ink the paper can handle.
You've got to decrease a lighter ink as you increase a darker ink.  But if
you come down too fast relative to the new ink coming in you'll get a plateau
or dip in density and linearizing doesn't fix this.  Its hard to compare rates
because a 5% increase from 10 to 15% might not correspond to a 5% decrease
from 75 to 70%.  It would depend how the curve settings map into ink quantities.

With QTR, access to the raw level allows the voodoo math to work :)  I just make
sure the amount of ink is always increasing as well as the balance of light vs
dark ink is always increasing.  Then linearization can straighten it all out.

Roy

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-13 by gulstenek

Antonis-

Yes, I'm using the OSX version.  Although I tried editing the curves 
directly I found I could do what I wanted to with the sliders 
adjusting the endpoints, midpoint and peak of the curve.  

It seemed easier for me to predict what effect the changes would have 
when the curves were nice and smooth.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Kevin,
> 
> just curious: are you using the OS X version of IJC? and if so,
> are you making use of the sliders or do you edit curves with
> points on them (the "edit" option)?
> 
> For starting out, it seems that sliders are best, letting the lin
> take care of the bumps.
> Down the line, nothing beats the control of editing points on
> the ink curves.
> 
> Glad my "tutorial" was helpful !
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek" 
> <keving@d...> wrote:
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> > I don't want to leave the impression that creating the curves is 
hard 
> > - it's not.  It's just that having arrived at a very good result, 
I
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > am, for some reason, compelled to worry whether I could make it
> > better 
> > :)
> > 
> > 
> > <snip>

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-13 by johnglodge

Roy, that is interesting but how do you do that with the WinXP 
version where the ink levels are buried in a binary file.

...John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek" 
<keving@d...> wrote:
> > Antonis-
> > 
> > Thanks for the very detailed answers.  It's very helpful - 
confirming 
> > some things I'd thought and giving me more the think about.
> > 
> > Having gone through the first paper with a lot of 
expirementation the 
> > following papers, as you suggest, are very straight forward when
> > based 
> > on the existing profile.
> > 
> > I don't want to leave the impression that creating the curves is 
hard 
> > - it's not.  It's just that having arrived at a very good 
result, I 
> > am, for some reason, compelled to worry whether I could make it
> > better 
> > :)
> > 
> 
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> I think Antonis' description is very much the general idea.
> 
> The difficulty I think is mainly figuring how much ink the paper 
can handle.
> You've got to decrease a lighter ink as you increase a darker 
ink.  But if
> you come down too fast relative to the new ink coming in you'll 
get a plateau
> or dip in density and linearizing doesn't fix this.  Its hard to 
compare rates
> because a 5% increase from 10 to 15% might not correspond to a 5% 
decrease
> from 75 to 70%.  It would depend how the curve settings map into 
ink quantities.
> 
> With QTR, access to the raw level allows the voodoo math to 
work :)  I just make
> sure the amount of ink is always increasing as well as the balance 
of light vs
> dark ink is always increasing.  Then linearization can straighten 
it all out.
> 
> Roy

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-13 by gulstenek

Thanks Roy.  

In the early stages I took a look at the curves that QTR was 
generating.  That's when I realized there was more than one approach 
to creating a curve set.

I handn't really thought much about the amount of ink the paper could 
take.  The 3000 has ink dots the size of baseballs compared to the 
newer printers and managing the entry of the black ink was one of the 
stumbling blocks I had.  I may think about the ink levels more on the 
next iteration.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek" 
<keving@d...> wrote:
> > Antonis-
> > 
> > Thanks for the very detailed answers.  It's very helpful - 
confirming 
> > some things I'd thought and giving me more the think about.
> > 
> > Having gone through the first paper with a lot of expirementation 
the 
> > following papers, as you suggest, are very straight forward when
> > based 
> > on the existing profile.
> > 
> > I don't want to leave the impression that creating the curves is 
hard 
> > - it's not.  It's just that having arrived at a very good result, 
I 
> > am, for some reason, compelled to worry whether I could make it
> > better 
> > :)
> > 
> 
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> I think Antonis' description is very much the general idea.
> 
> The difficulty I think is mainly figuring how much ink the paper can 
handle.
> You've got to decrease a lighter ink as you increase a darker ink.  
But if
> you come down too fast relative to the new ink coming in you'll get 
a plateau
> or dip in density and linearizing doesn't fix this.  Its hard to 
compare rates
> because a 5% increase from 10 to 15% might not correspond to a 5% 
decrease
> from 75 to 70%.  It would depend how the curve settings map into ink 
quantities.
> 
> With QTR, access to the raw level allows the voodoo math to work :)  
I just make
> sure the amount of ink is always increasing as well as the balance 
of light vs
> dark ink is always increasing.  Then linearization can straighten it 
all out.
> 
> Roy

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by Roy Harrington

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" <john.lodge@s...> 
wrote:
> Roy, that is interesting but how do you do that with the WinXP 
> version where the ink levels are buried in a binary file.
> 
> ...John
> 

Hi John,

There really isn't anything "buried" in any files.  Neither WinXP nor MacOSX have
anything to do with figuring out what goes to the printer.  Everything that happens
from the individual grayscale pixels all the way to each individual dot on the
page is under the control of QTR.  The OS's do nothing more than pass the info
along, dealing with spooling and usb hardware.

Roy

QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Roy Harrington

Things are moving along.   
There are now profiles for several more printers: 

1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks

7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks

Plus there is now Custom Page size capability 
-- you can specify any size paper that will fit in the printer.

See the download page for more info.

Roy
www.harrington.com

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by johnglodge

Hi Roy, I must be missing something. When I look at the MAC profiles 
they are in Text Files that can be edited and the file layout makes 
it obvious what a little tweeking would be.

On the other hand in the XP case the .quad files are a lot more 
opaque or so its seems to me.

...John 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
<john.lodge@s...> 
> wrote:
> > Roy, that is interesting but how do you do that with the WinXP 
> > version where the ink levels are buried in a binary file.
> > 
> > ...John
> > 
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> There really isn't anything "buried" in any files.  Neither WinXP 
nor MacOSX have
> anything to do with figuring out what goes to the printer.  
Everything that happens
> from the individual grayscale pixels all the way to each 
individual dot on the
> page is under the control of QTR.  The OS's do nothing more than 
pass the info
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> along, dealing with spooling and usb hardware.
> 
> Roy

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> I think Antonis' description is very much the general idea.
> 
> The difficulty I think is mainly figuring how much ink the paper 
can handle.
> You've got to decrease a lighter ink as you increase a darker 
ink.  But if
> you come down too fast relative to the new ink coming in you'll 
get a plateau
> or dip in density and linearizing doesn't fix this.  

<snip>


I've always been curious...is there any relationship between the way 
the ink is laid down and the potential longevity of the resulting 
image?

It seems that the general strategy is to combine the different ink 
densities at a rate that creates the optimum printed density while 
achieving smooth tonal transitions and minimizing the appearance of 
visible dots. But should any consideration be given to the fade rate 
of each density of ink? Unless each ink fades at exactly the same 
rate, won't different curve shapes result in more/less-even fade 
shift 1, 10, 20 years from now? 

Thanks for any insight,
Peter.

RE: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Stephen Billard

QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports these new
printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)

http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy Harrington [mailto:roy@...] 
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 6:30 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> 
> 
> 
> Things are moving along.   
> There are now profiles for several more printers: 
> 
> 1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks
> 
> 7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks
> 
> Plus there is now Custom Page size capability 
> -- you can specify any size paper that will fit in the printer.
> 
> See the download page for more info.
> 
> Roy
> www.harrington.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by Roy Harrington

Byte for byte they are identical.
You are probably looking at the file with Notepad.  Yes, they look
weird but that is because on Windows the end of line marker is a
<carriage-return><line-feed> where as on Mac/Unix they just use
a <line-feed>.  So Notepad thinks it's one big line.
I think WordPad will read the file and show the separated lines.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
<john.lodge@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Roy, I must be missing something. When I look at the MAC profiles 
> they are in Text Files that can be edited and the file layout makes 
> it obvious what a little tweeking would be.
> 
> On the other hand in the XP case the .quad files are a lot more 
> opaque or so its seems to me.
> 
> ...John 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
> Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> <john.lodge@s...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Roy, that is interesting but how do you do that with the WinXP 
> > > version where the ink levels are buried in a binary file.
> > > 
> > > ...John
> > > 
> > 
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > There really isn't anything "buried" in any files.  Neither WinXP 
> nor MacOSX have
> > anything to do with figuring out what goes to the printer.  
> Everything that happens
> > from the individual grayscale pixels all the way to each 
> individual dot on the
> > page is under the control of QTR.  The OS's do nothing more than 
> pass the info
> > along, dealing with spooling and usb hardware.
> > 
> > Roy

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by johnglodge

Roy, somehow I am still missing the point.

Yes I have been opening with wordpad and just to make sure looked at 
the files with a hex viewer.

But the Windows profiles are files like "EEM_2200-cool.quad" while 
the MAC profiles are files like "UC-EEnhMatte-cool-1.txt"

It is not at all clear to me how to get from the latter that are 
text files to the former that are "compiled"

...John 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> 
> Byte for byte they are identical.
> You are probably looking at the file with Notepad.  Yes, they look
> weird but that is because on Windows the end of line marker is a
> <carriage-return><line-feed> where as on Mac/Unix they just use
> a <line-feed>.  So Notepad thinks it's one big line.
> I think WordPad will read the file and show the separated lines.
> 
> Roy
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> <john.lodge@s...> wrote:
> > Hi Roy, I must be missing something. When I look at the MAC 
profiles 
> > they are in Text Files that can be edited and the file layout 
makes 
> > it obvious what a little tweeking would be.
> > 
> > On the other hand in the XP case the .quad files are a lot more 
> > opaque or so its seems to me.
> > 
> > ...John 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
> > Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > > --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> > <john.lodge@s...> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Roy, that is interesting but how do you do that with the 
WinXP 
> > > > version where the ink levels are buried in a binary file.
> > > > 
> > > > ...John
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi John,
> > > 
> > > There really isn't anything "buried" in any files.  Neither 
WinXP 
> > nor MacOSX have
> > > anything to do with figuring out what goes to the printer.  
> > Everything that happens
> > > from the individual grayscale pixels all the way to each 
> > individual dot on the
> > > page is under the control of QTR.  The OS's do nothing more 
than
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > pass the info
> > > along, dealing with spooling and usb hardware.
> > > 
> > > Roy

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by Roy Harrington

Ok, I'm sorry John.  I guess I missed your point.
I thought you were looking at the .quad files from each system.
The .txt files are higher level descriptors of what the inks "look" like.
They are what people would ordinarily edit.   On the Mac the profiling
making software converts that into the actually set of curves or profile.
These profiles are a table of the exact amount of each of the inks to be
used for each of the 256 different grayscale values.   I don't have this
profile creation software running on the PC yet, so I just moved the
profile tables from one machine to the other.   On both machines the
driver reads the table at print time to send the right ink commands to
the printer.

Roy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
<john.lodge@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Roy, somehow I am still missing the point.
> 
> Yes I have been opening with wordpad and just to make sure looked at 
> the files with a hex viewer.
> 
> But the Windows profiles are files like "EEM_2200-cool.quad" while 
> the MAC profiles are files like "UC-EEnhMatte-cool-1.txt"
> 
> It is not at all clear to me how to get from the latter that are 
> text files to the former that are "compiled"
> 
> ...John 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
> Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > Byte for byte they are identical.
> > You are probably looking at the file with Notepad.  Yes, they look
> > weird but that is because on Windows the end of line marker is a
> > <carriage-return><line-feed> where as on Mac/Unix they just use
> > a <line-feed>.  So Notepad thinks it's one big line.
> > I think WordPad will read the file and show the separated lines.
> > 
> > Roy
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> > <john.lodge@s...> wrote:
> > > Hi Roy, I must be missing something. When I look at the MAC 
> profiles 
> > > they are in Text Files that can be edited and the file layout 
> makes 
> > > it obvious what a little tweeking would be.
> > > 
> > > On the other hand in the XP case the .quad files are a lot more 
> > > opaque or so its seems to me.
> > > 
> > > ...John 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
> > > Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > > > --- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> > > <john.lodge@s...> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Roy, that is interesting but how do you do that with the 
> WinXP 
> > > > > version where the ink levels are buried in a binary file.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ...John
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Hi John,
> > > > 
> > > > There really isn't anything "buried" in any files.  Neither 
> WinXP 
> > > nor MacOSX have
> > > > anything to do with figuring out what goes to the printer.  
> > > Everything that happens
> > > > from the individual grayscale pixels all the way to each 
> > > individual dot on the
> > > > page is under the control of QTR.  The OS's do nothing more 
> than 
> > > pass the info
> > > > along, dealing with spooling and usb hardware.
> > > > 
> > > > Roy

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Roy Harrington

Real nice, Stephen.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Billard" 
<stephen@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports these new
> printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> 
> http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roy Harrington [mailto:roy@h...] 
> > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 6:30 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Things are moving along.   
> > There are now profiles for several more printers: 
> > 
> > 1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks
> > 
> > 7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks
> > 
> > Plus there is now Custom Page size capability 
> > -- you can specify any size paper that will fit in the printer.
> > 
> > See the download page for more info.
> > 
> > Roy
> > www.harrington.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > --------------------~--> 
> > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------~-> 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> > preferences by visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> > or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> > removed from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> > posts may be removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> > decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> > Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> > THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> > INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> > IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> > ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by Tyler Boley

I know the 3000 for quads all to well, well enough to need therapy.
I've made CMYK curves for it from way back with the old StylusRIP, RGB
curves for the Epson driver, and CMYK curves later for the now extinct
PressReady. So...
Here's how to make the most of it. With most papers you won't need any
limiting, maybe some Hawk Mountian papers or Somerset (Epson) Velvet
(enhanced), but probably not any Hanna papers. You don't want to limit
unless you absolutely have to, mottle and bleed is your clue to limit.
As long as an ink continues to gain density and there is no mottle or
bleed, don't limit it. The idea is to get as far as possible down the
scale with each ink, limiting inhibits that. With most drivers you
should be able to get down near 40% with the first ink alone, 60-70 or
more with the second, then your third, and K won't need to be brought
in untill 90% or higher.
I don't specifically know how you would do it with IJC or QTR, but I
left a lot of each light ink in under the next. Smoother because of 2
inks dithered together, and more density. Bleed, with most papers,
will still not be a problem because you're still most likely under
200% total ink, not very high really.
Once you get it right, 3000 quad output still qualifies as some of the
best. Better dmax then smaller dot printers, and each ink will get
farther down the scale.
I had a lot of 3000 quads hanging next to 9600 quads recently. Without
a loup, there was no practical quality difference without extreme
inspection, knowing what to look for.
Have at it.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek"
<keving@d...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Thanks Roy.  
> 
> In the early stages I took a look at the curves that QTR was 
> generating.  That's when I realized there was more than one approach 
> to creating a curve set.
> 
> I handn't really thought much about the amount of ink the paper could 
> take.  The 3000 has ink dots the size of baseballs compared to the 
> newer printers and managing the entry of the black ink was one of the 
> stumbling blocks I had.  I may think about the ink levels more on the 
> next iteration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
> <roy@h...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek" 
> <keving@d...> wrote:
> > > Antonis-
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the very detailed answers.  It's very helpful - 
> confirming 
> > > some things I'd thought and giving me more the think about.
> > > 
> > > Having gone through the first paper with a lot of expirementation 
> the 
> > > following papers, as you suggest, are very straight forward when
> > > based 
> > > on the existing profile.
> > > 
> > > I don't want to leave the impression that creating the curves is 
> hard 
> > > - it's not.  It's just that having arrived at a very good result, 
> I 
> > > am, for some reason, compelled to worry whether I could make it
> > > better 
> > > :)
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Kevin,
> > 
> > I think Antonis' description is very much the general idea.
> > 
> > The difficulty I think is mainly figuring how much ink the paper can 
> handle.
> > You've got to decrease a lighter ink as you increase a darker ink.  
> But if
> > you come down too fast relative to the new ink coming in you'll get 
> a plateau
> > or dip in density and linearizing doesn't fix this.  Its hard to 
> compare rates
> > because a 5% increase from 10 to 15% might not correspond to a 5% 
> decrease
> > from 75 to 70%.  It would depend how the curve settings map into ink 
> quantities.
> > 
> > With QTR, access to the raw level allows the voodoo math to work :)  
> I just make
> > sure the amount of ink is always increasing as well as the balance 
> of light vs
> > dark ink is always increasing.  Then linearization can straighten it 
> all out.
> > 
> > Roy

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by gulstenek

Tyler-

Thanks for the practical 3000 experience.

The curves I ended up with seem very similar to what you suggest.  I 
got to about 45% with the first ink, 65% with the second, 85% with the 
third and the black starts at about 85%.  I was also a little more 
agressive with the ink limits than Antonis suggested.  

As for needing therapy, I thought this _was_ therapy <g> Nearly as 
relaxing as golf.  Each print (putt) is almost there.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@t...> wrote:
> I know the 3000 for quads all to well, well enough to need therapy.
> I've made CMYK curves for it from way back with the old StylusRIP, 
RGB
> curves for the Epson driver, and CMYK curves later for the now 
extinct
> PressReady. So...
> Here's how to make the most of it. With most papers you won't need 
any
> limiting, maybe some Hawk Mountian papers or Somerset (Epson) Velvet
> (enhanced), but probably not any Hanna papers. You don't want to 
limit
> unless you absolutely have to, mottle and bleed is your clue to 
limit.
> As long as an ink continues to gain density and there is no mottle 
or
> bleed, don't limit it. The idea is to get as far as possible down 
the
> scale with each ink, limiting inhibits that. With most drivers you
> should be able to get down near 40% with the first ink alone, 60-70 
or
> more with the second, then your third, and K won't need to be 
brought
> in untill 90% or higher.
> I don't specifically know how you would do it with IJC or QTR, but I
> left a lot of each light ink in under the next. Smoother because of 
2
> inks dithered together, and more density. Bleed, with most papers,
> will still not be a problem because you're still most likely under
> 200% total ink, not very high really.
> Once you get it right, 3000 quad output still qualifies as some of 
the
> best. Better dmax then smaller dot printers, and each ink will get
> farther down the scale.
> I had a lot of 3000 quads hanging next to 9600 quads recently. 
Without
> a loup, there was no practical quality difference without extreme
> inspection, knowing what to look for.
> Have at it.
> Tyler

<snip>

QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by Ernst Dinkla

To speed up a request for an added feature in Qimage: "Greyscale
TIFF output with Print to File" it may be a good thing if
everyone who's interested in using the Qimage - QTR Windows
combination as an ideal B&W RIP asks Mike Chaney to add that
feature.

With the speed W QTR is developing and the W QTRgui as a nice
interface to the user and Qimage (hotfolder added) it would be a
pity if Qimage's "Print to File" output stays RGB only. It works
already but takes more memory space and time.

Best would be to bombard Qimage's mailing list with support for
that request or add your name here if you don't follow that list.
Preferably by Qimage users or if not add "potential Qimage user" 
if your intentions are real.

Price of Qimage is 45 $, Roy's shareware price is 50 $.
Any idea what a (B&W) RIP costs that probably doesn't come near the
combined qualities of QTR + Qimage ?

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by johnlill2@yahoo.com

Stephen,

Thanks for your work on this. Even though editing Roy's batch files 
is not difficult, your GUI makes things real simple. And already on 
version 3! We appreciate it!

John L

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports 
these new
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> 
> http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roy Harrington [mailto:roy@h...] 
> > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 6:30 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Things are moving along.   
> > There are now profiles for several more printers: 
> > 
> > 1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks
> > 
> > 7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks
> > 
> > Plus there is now Custom Page size capability 
> > -- you can specify any size paper that will fit in the printer.
> > 
> > See the download page for more info.
> > 
> > Roy
> > www.harrington.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > --------------------~--> 
> > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------~-> 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> > preferences by visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> > or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> > removed from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> > posts may be removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> > decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> > Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> > THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> > INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> > IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> > ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >

Re: QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by johnlill2@yahoo.com

Roy,

I am just a hobbyist so ImagePrint was way too expensive for me. For 
some time I have been reading about QuadToneRip in this forum and 
wishing it was available in a Windows version. I tried version 1 as 
soon as I saw it was available and I am really impressed. I have an 
old Epson 870 that I have dedicated to B&W using MIS inks, but I 
really wanted to be able to print on my 2200 without the metamerism 
problems. Thank you so much for all your work. My $50 is on the way.

John L

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Things are moving along.   
> There are now profiles for several more printers: 
> 
> 1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks
> 
> 7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks
> 
> Plus there is now Custom Page size capability 
> -- you can specify any size paper that will fit in the printer.
> 
> See the download page for more info.
> 
> Roy
> www.harrington.com

Re: QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by sandersm@aol.com

Any chance the makers of Qimage might come out with a Mac OS version for the 
rest of us?

Sanders McNew


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

sandersm@... wrote:

>Any chance the makers of Qimage might come out with a Mac OS version for the 
>rest of us?
>
>Sanders McNew
>
>  
>
Highly Unlikely.  Mike has more than enough to handle just doing his 
ongoing updates..

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by johnglodge

Roy,

Cool explains a lot and I can wait I'm sure you are busy.

...John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> 
> Ok, I'm sorry John.  I guess I missed your point.
> I thought you were looking at the .quad files from each system.
> The .txt files are higher level descriptors of what the 
inks "look" like.
> They are what people would ordinarily edit.   On the Mac the 
profiling
> making software converts that into the actually set of curves or 
profile.
> These profiles are a table of the exact amount of each of the inks 
to be
> used for each of the 256 different grayscale values.   I don't 
have this
> profile creation software running on the PC yet, so I just moved 
the
> profile tables from one machine to the other.   On both machines 
the
> driver reads the table at print time to send the right ink 
commands to
> the printer.
> 
> Roy
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> <john.lodge@s...> wrote:
> > Roy, somehow I am still missing the point.
> > 
> > Yes I have been opening with wordpad and just to make sure 
looked at 
> > the files with a hex viewer.
> > 
> > But the Windows profiles are files like "EEM_2200-cool.quad" 
while 
> > the MAC profiles are files like "UC-EEnhMatte-cool-1.txt"
> > 
> > It is not at all clear to me how to get from the latter that are 
> > text files to the former that are "compiled"
> > 
> > ...John 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
> > Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Byte for byte they are identical.
> > > You are probably looking at the file with Notepad.  Yes, they 
look
> > > weird but that is because on Windows the end of line marker is 
a
> > > <carriage-return><line-feed> where as on Mac/Unix they just use
> > > a <line-feed>.  So Notepad thinks it's one big line.
> > > I think WordPad will read the file and show the separated 
lines.
> > > 
> > > Roy
> > > 
> > > --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> > > <john.lodge@s...> wrote:
> > > > Hi Roy, I must be missing something. When I look at the MAC 
> > profiles 
> > > > they are in Text Files that can be edited and the file 
layout 
> > makes 
> > > > it obvious what a little tweeking would be.
> > > > 
> > > > On the other hand in the XP case the .quad files are a lot 
more 
> > > > opaque or so its seems to me.
> > > > 
> > > > ...John 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy 
> > > > Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > > > > --- In 
> > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnglodge" 
> > > > <john.lodge@s...> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Roy, that is interesting but how do you do that with the 
> > WinXP 
> > > > > > version where the ink levels are buried in a binary file.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > ...John
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hi John,
> > > > > 
> > > > > There really isn't anything "buried" in any files.  
Neither 
> > WinXP 
> > > > nor MacOSX have
> > > > > anything to do with figuring out what goes to the 
printer.  
> > > > Everything that happens
> > > > > from the individual grayscale pixels all the way to each 
> > > > individual dot on the
> > > > > page is under the control of QTR.  The OS's do nothing 
more
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > than 
> > > > pass the info
> > > > > along, dealing with spooling and usb hardware.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Roy

Re: [Digital BW] Re: QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

sandersm@... wrote:

>Any chance the makers of Qimage might come out with a Mac OS version for the 
>rest of us?
>
>  
>
Besides, given the utter lack of support (and even outright derision) 
within this group that came from Mac owners when PC owners (like myself) 
bemoaned the absence of QTR or IJM/OPC  for Windows (comments like: "now 
you know what we deal with all the time - too bad that we've got the 
software you want for once," "get a Mac," etc.), I wouldn't suggest Mac 
owners hold their breath expecting the PC crowd to support an effort to 
get Mike to release a Mac version of QImage. On the other hand, I won't 
engage in the same kind of commentary that was hurled in our direction 
(and equivalent would be "hey just hook a PC up to your existing network 
and you can run QImage fine."). We'd basically rather see him focus his 
efforts, as he has hitherto, on upgrades and fixes to the PC only version.

The inescapable fact is that the Mac market in toto IS substantially 
smaller. So, eventually the best products from smaller developers do get 
ported from Mac to Windows.  In the obverse, only the larger software 
manufacturers can generally afford the developmental work of porting in 
the opposite direction, when considering the much smaller potential market.

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Tom Husband

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports 
these new
> printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> 
> http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen

Thanks Stephen.  This will make it pretty easy.

I've set up a folder on the partition where my images are and pointed 
your QTRgui v 3.0 to it.  I'll use Qimage to print to the file but I 
get a Quad Tone RIP Front End message that says, "Unable to Rename 
G:\print\lightpole.tif".  I thought it might have to do with network 
sharing of the folder so I made sure it was allowed but it still 
won't print. 

If I drag the file to the Drop Target my 1280 will kick in but the 
paper just zooms through without printing.  Same thing will happen if 
I drag the file to Print-1280.bat.  My printer is connected via USB 
so I thought that might be it but I just canceled the previous print 
job and dragged it, again, to the .bat file and this time it 
printed.  In the cmd.exe file the text refers to LPT3, would that 
have anything to do with it?

Any ideas?

Thanks again for your efforts.

Tom

Re: [Digital BW] Re: QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by Ernst Dinkla

sandersm@... wrote:

> Any chance the makers of Qimage might come out with a Mac OS version for the 
> rest of us?
> 
> Sanders McNew

If it is about QTR, we were the "rest of us"  for a long time, 
till last week :-)

I doubt you will see a Mac OS version any time soon. Best advice 
is: get a cheap PC with a network card. Some run it in Windows 
emulation, doesn't speed things up I guess. Though for Qimage + 
QTR B&W printing you could run Qimage in the emulation and "Print 
to File" to the QTR Mac OS version.

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by johnlill2@yahoo.com

Tom,

Were you trying to print an image more than once? Stephen's QTRGUI 
moves the image to a subfolder named "Processed" if you have folder 
monitoring turned on. So if you print an image, then print it again 
by copying it into your monitored folder, you will get that error 
message because the file already exists in the Processed folder. I 
know - it happened to me :)

John L

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
<thusband@s...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
> Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> > QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports 
> these new
> > printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> > 
> > http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> > 
> > -Stephen
> >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> Thanks Stephen.  This will make it pretty easy.
> 
> I've set up a folder on the partition where my images are and 
pointed 
> your QTRgui v 3.0 to it.  I'll use Qimage to print to the file but 
I 
> get a Quad Tone RIP Front End message that says, "Unable to Rename 
> G:\print\lightpole.tif".  I thought it might have to do with 
network 
> sharing of the folder so I made sure it was allowed but it still 
> won't print. 
> 
> If I drag the file to the Drop Target my 1280 will kick in but the 
> paper just zooms through without printing.  Same thing will happen 
if 
> I drag the file to Print-1280.bat.  My printer is connected via 
USB 
> so I thought that might be it but I just canceled the previous 
print
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> job and dragged it, again, to the .bat file and this time it 
> printed.  In the cmd.exe file the text refers to LPT3, would that 
> have anything to do with it?
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks again for your efforts.
> 
> Tom

Re: Curve primer needed - IJC

2004-08-14 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gulstenek"
<keving@d...> wrote:
> Tyler-
> 
> Thanks for the practical 3000 experience.
> 
> The curves I ended up with seem very similar to what you suggest.  I 
> got to about 45% with the first ink, 65% with the second, 85% with the 
> third and the black starts at about 85%...

Sounds about right.
Depending on your ink and paper, you also might try what Roy used to
call Boost K, letting your darkset gray underprint your K. Whether or
not you get a dmax boost, and how much is helpful, you'll have to test
for. Even if you get no boost, but no dmax decline, you may get
smoother blacks. Also, if you are not using a 100% pigment K ink,
you'll get a little more stability down there. Watch for bleed.
...
> As for needing therapy, I thought this _was_ therapy <g>

little did we know...
Tyler

RE: [Digital BW] Re: QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by Nelson Ricciardi

Sanders

As far as I know they have no plans for that.

But some people have been running Qimage on Macs with smoe kind of
emulation.

I�m not a Mac user, therefore I have no details.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: sandersm@... [mailto:sandersm@...] 
Sent: s�bado, 14 de agosto de 2004 11:35
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: QTR - Qimage petition


Any chance the makers of Qimage might come out with a Mac OS version for the

rest of us?

Sanders McNew


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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RE: [Digital BW] QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by Nelson Ricciardi

You have my signature.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Dinkla [mailto:E.Dinkla@...] 
Sent: sábado, 14 de agosto de 2004 10:03
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] QTR - Qimage petition


To speed up a request for an added feature in Qimage: "Greyscale TIFF output
with Print to File" it may be a good thing if everyone who's interested in
using the Qimage - QTR Windows combination as an ideal B&W RIP asks Mike
Chaney to add that feature.

With the speed W QTR is developing and the W QTRgui as a nice interface to
the user and Qimage (hotfolder added) it would be a pity if Qimage's "Print
to File" output stays RGB only. It works already but takes more memory space
and time.

Best would be to bombard Qimage's mailing list with support for that request
or add your name here if you don't follow that list. Preferably by Qimage
users or if not add "potential Qimage user" 
if your intentions are real.

Price of Qimage is 45 $, Roy's shareware price is 50 $.
Any idea what a (B&W) RIP costs that probably doesn't come near the combined
qualities of QTR + Qimage ?

Ernst





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QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Nelson Ricciardi

Roy

You have to change the identification of your web page.

It´s still "Quad Tone Printing for Mac OS X and Linux".

You have to add Windows to it.

:-)

Nelson

Re: QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by donbga

Hi Roy,


> There are now profiles for several more printers: 
> 
> 1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks
> 
> 7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks

Do you fore see supporting the Epson 1160 with UT FSN inks?

Thanks,

Don Bryant

Re: What is best: RGB 16 bits or grayscale?

2004-08-14 by Tom Husband

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson 
Ricciardi" <nelson_@r...> wrote:
> Folks.
> 
> For general Photoshop editing, what is the best thing to do?
> 
> - leave the image as a RGB 16 bit black and white, do all the 
editing and
> convert to grayscale at the end
> 
> Or
> 
> - Convert as soon as possible and edit in grayscale mode?
> 
> By editing I mean levels and curves and some dodge and burning.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nelson

I would think leaving it in RGB 16 bit as long as possible would be 
better.

Tom

From RGB to grayscale

2004-08-14 by Nelson Ricciardi

Hi there guys.

What profile do you guys use in Photoshop when you convert images from RGB
to gray?

Dot gain x% or gamma 1.8 or gamma 2.2?

What is the best (generally speaking) option for QTR?

I know how to color manage when working in color. Adobe RGB and sRGB and all
that. But the black and white spaces are new to me.

I'd appreciate any help.

Thank you

Nelson

What is best: RGB 16 bits or grayscale?

2004-08-14 by Nelson Ricciardi

Folks.

For general Photoshop editing, what is the best thing to do?

- leave the image as a RGB 16 bit black and white, do all the editing and
convert to grayscale at the end

Or

- Convert as soon as possible and edit in grayscale mode?

By editing I mean levels and curves and some dodge and burning.

Thanks

Nelson

RE: [Digital BW] Re: What is best: RGB 16 bits or grayscale?

2004-08-14 by Nelson Ricciardi

Tom

Thank you.

That´s what I believe. But since my experience is almost zero with black and
white work, I´d better follow the advice of you guys that know better.

Thank you.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Husband [mailto:thusband@...] 
Sent: sábado, 14 de agosto de 2004 18:25
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: What is best: RGB 16 bits or grayscale?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson 
Ricciardi" <nelson_@r...> wrote:
> Folks.
> 
> For general Photoshop editing, what is the best thing to do?
> 
> - leave the image as a RGB 16 bit black and white, do all the
editing and
> convert to grayscale at the end
> 
> Or
> 
> - Convert as soon as possible and edit in grayscale mode?
> 
> By editing I mean levels and curves and some dodge and burning.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nelson

I would think leaving it in RGB 16 bit as long as possible would be 
better.

Tom




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Re: From RGB to grayscale

2004-08-14 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson
Ricciardi" <nelson_@r...> wrote:
> Hi there guys.
> 
> What profile do you guys use in Photoshop when you convert images
from RGB
> to gray?
> 
> Dot gain x% or gamma 1.8 or gamma 2.2?
> 
> What is the best (generally speaking) option for QTR?

Somewhere in the archives is a relevant discussion. Roy linearizes to
LAB, there is a nearly equivalent dot gain space I can't recall. Might
work best.
Regarding RGB or gray, depends on the source. I shoot B&W film, scan
as gray, it's always gray never RGB. 16 bit important for single
channel files. If the source was monochromatic, I don't see the point
in working in RGB for output requiring a grayscale file. If the source
was RGB and you need to do some channel tricks before going to gray, I
still don't see the point in staying in RGB assuming the workflow has
been hi bit from source all the way through.
Don't forget mode conversions can be as destructive as levels and
curves, do them hi bit too.
Tyler

RE: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale

2004-08-14 by Joe Dempsey

Nelson:
The gamma setting for Windows is 2.2, for Mac 1.8 ... at least that's what
two genuine PS gurus have told me. When converting to BW, direct to
grayscale is the worst option because it considers converts colors to gray
equally. My preferred method is to convert to LAB color (Luminance plus
channel A color and channel B color). By doing this you remove color from
the equation and dealing with luminance only. Once converted to LAB select
the lightness channel and tweak with levels and curves in that order. Make a
copy first so if you want to start from square one you can. Now if all that
sounds like so much mumbo-jumbo, you can go to Adobe Studio>Studio Exchange
and look for a PS action called "3 Grays." The action is by Will Hammond, a
PS instructor, extraordinaire. The action converts the image to BW via
grayscale, lab and gray mapping and yields three images .... and leaves the
original color image intact. Then you can select the one that gives you  the
best results and tweak with levels and curves. LEAVE BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST
ALONE, THESE ARE DESTRUCTIVE ADJUSTMENTS ... levels and curves are
non-destructive adjustments. Most of the time, the map option gives the best
conversion, lab is second and straight grayscale conversion is a distant
third although sometimes with certain images, it gives you the best
conversion. The action is set up to use with rgb, but I have experimented
with using it on cmyk images. During the action there will be a pause and
you'll get a prompt saying the action cannot find a red channel. Click
continue and finish. The dynamic range on these conversions is greater,
which for some images is ok and some not ok ... and some just downright
crappy ... it's strictly an experimental thing with cmyk. Hope this helps.
Kindest regards, Joe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Nelson Ricciardi [mailto:nelson_@...]
  Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 4:25 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale


  Hi there guys.

  What profile do you guys use in Photoshop when you convert images from RGB
  to gray?

  Dot gain x% or gamma 1.8 or gamma 2.2?

  What is the best (generally speaking) option for QTR?

  I know how to color manage when working in color. Adobe RGB and sRGB and
all
  that. But the black and white spaces are new to me.

  I'd appreciate any help.

  Thank you

  Nelson



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] What is best: RGB 16 bits or grayscale?

2004-08-14 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Nelson Ricciardi [mailto:nelson_@...]
>
> For general Photoshop editing, what is the best thing to do?
>
> - leave the image as a RGB 16 bit black and white, do all the editing and
> convert to grayscale at the end
>
> Or
>
> - Convert as soon as possible and edit in grayscale mode?
>
> By editing I mean levels and curves and some dodge and burning.

I find that what one does to improve a color picture is very different from
what one does to improve a B&W picture. In particular, B&W tolerates, even
requires, drastic variations in the dynamic range (i.e., Curves) that would
ruin any color picture. Therefore, I think that trying to do the sort of
editing you talk about in the RGB domain just adds a layer of obscurity
between the knobs you're twiddling and the finished product.

One trick that you might try, however, is to set up a grayscale proof setup,
since you can toggle that on and off with Alt+Y. This allows you to see what
you're doing in B&W, even though you're still manipulating the underlying
color data. This is particularly useful when playing with different color to
B&W conversion choices (i.e., deciding which colors to brighten and which to
darken), but things like dodging, burning, sharpening, blurring, cloning,
are probably not color-specific, so might as well be done after the
conversion.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

RE: [Digital BW] What is best: RGB 16 bits or grayscale?

2004-08-14 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Paul D. DeRocco [mailto:pderocco@...]
> 
> One trick that you might try, however, is to set up a grayscale 
> proof setup, since you can toggle that on and off with Alt+Y.

Excuse me, that's Ctrl+Y for proof viewing.

-- 

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

RE: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Stephen Billard

Thanks.

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: johnlill2@... [mailto:johnlill2@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:16 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> 
> 
> Stephen,
> 
> Thanks for your work on this. Even though editing Roy's batch files 
> is not difficult, your GUI makes things real simple. And already on 
> version 3! We appreciate it!
> 
> John L
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
> Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> > QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports
> these new
> > printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> > 
> > http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> > 
> > -Stephen
> >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Roy Harrington [mailto:roy@h...]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 6:30 PM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Things are moving along.   
> > > There are now profiles for several more printers:
> > > 
> > > 1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks
> > > 
> > > 7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks
> > > 
> > > Plus there is now Custom Page size capability
> > > -- you can specify any size paper that will fit in the printer.
> > > 
> > > See the download page for more info.
> > > 
> > > Roy
> > > www.harrington.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> > > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 
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> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > > resources as they are often being updated.
> > > 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or
> > > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
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RE: [Digital BW] Re: QTR - Qimage petition

2004-08-14 by Stephen Billard

The WEB site says that Qimage will run under the MAC Windows emulator.

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sandersm@... [mailto:sandersm@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:35 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: QTR - Qimage petition
> 
> 
> Any chance the makers of Qimage might come out with a Mac OS 
> version for the 
> rest of us?
> 
> Sanders McNew
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
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RE: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Stephen Billard

This message comes because there is not a folder named "G"\print\Processed".
That folder should have been created by QTRgui. Is it possible that
permissions on the drive will not allow it to create the folder?

Anyway, just make the folder and everything should work. QTRgui moves the
file out of the folder so it won't get into a loop printing it. If it can't
move it, it worries!

As far as the actual printing, Roy will probably have to address your
question. However, it sounds like the printer is doing something, so at
least the connection to the printer is working. Must be something in
processing the image.

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Husband [mailto:thusband@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 8:14 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
> Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> > QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports
> these new
> > printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> > 
> > http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> > 
> > -Stephen
> >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> Thanks Stephen.  This will make it pretty easy.
> 
> I've set up a folder on the partition where my images are and pointed 
> your QTRgui v 3.0 to it.  I'll use Qimage to print to the file but I 
> get a Quad Tone RIP Front End message that says, "Unable to Rename 
> G:\print\lightpole.tif".  I thought it might have to do with network 
> sharing of the folder so I made sure it was allowed but it still 
> won't print. 
> 
> If I drag the file to the Drop Target my 1280 will kick in but the 
> paper just zooms through without printing.  Same thing will happen if 
> I drag the file to Print-1280.bat.  My printer is connected via USB 
> so I thought that might be it but I just canceled the previous print 
> job and dragged it, again, to the .bat file and this time it 
> printed.  In the cmd.exe file the text refers to LPT3, would that 
> have anything to do with it?
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks again for your efforts.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
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> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
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> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
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> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
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>  
>

RE: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-14 by Stephen Billard

Ah!

Any one have an idea of how I should handle this? I could delete the
previous file, but I didn't want to delete any files in case you wanted them
again. 

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: johnlill2@... [mailto:johnlill2@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 8:47 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> Were you trying to print an image more than once? Stephen's QTRGUI 
> moves the image to a subfolder named "Processed" if you have folder 
> monitoring turned on. So if you print an image, then print it again 
> by copying it into your monitored folder, you will get that error 
> message because the file already exists in the Processed folder. I 
> know - it happened to me :)
> 
> John L
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
> <thusband@s...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen
> > Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> > > QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release supports
> > these new
> > > printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> > > 
> > > http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> > > 
> > > -Stephen
> > >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> > 
> > Thanks Stephen.  This will make it pretty easy.
> > 
> > I've set up a folder on the partition where my images are and
> pointed 
> > your QTRgui v 3.0 to it.  I'll use Qimage to print to the file but
> I 
> > get a Quad Tone RIP Front End message that says, "Unable to Rename
> > G:\print\lightpole.tif".  I thought it might have to do with 
> network 
> > sharing of the folder so I made sure it was allowed but it still
> > won't print. 
> > 
> > If I drag the file to the Drop Target my 1280 will kick in but the
> > paper just zooms through without printing.  Same thing will happen 
> if 
> > I drag the file to Print-1280.bat.  My printer is connected via
> USB 
> > so I thought that might be it but I just canceled the previous
> print 
> > job and dragged it, again, to the .bat file and this time it
> > printed.  In the cmd.exe file the text refers to LPT3, would that 
> > have anything to do with it?
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> > 
> > Thanks again for your efforts.
> > 
> > Tom
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> --------------------~--> 
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> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~-> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> 
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> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

Re: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale

2004-08-14 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Dempsey"
<jdempsey@c...> wrote:
> Nelson:
> The gamma setting for Windows is 2.2, for Mac 1.8 ... at least
that's what
> two genuine PS gurus have told me.

Joe, sorry but that's an old rule that doesn't really apply any more.
Photoshop corrects for whatever gamma the space the file resides
within then to the gamma of the monior profile. You could easily
reprofile your monitor to a different gamma setting, and assuming both
profiles were good, the file would display the same in Photoshop.
Many of us Mac people profile our monitors to 2.2 now, so files will
display the same with non-icc aware apps like browsers.
At any rate, the gamma decision for Photoshop spaces is not a platform
issue.

> When converting to BW, direct to
> grayscale is the worst option because it considers converts colors
to gray
> equally.

Not meaning to beat up on you, but that's not true either. I believe
it's a 30/59/11channel mix.

>...LEAVE BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST
> ALONE, THESE ARE DESTRUCTIVE ADJUSTMENTS ... levels and curves are
> non-destructive adjustments.

Sorry again. All of these edits are destructive. Brightness and
contrast are generally not advised as they will probably clip without
your knowledge. With levels and curves at least you have a handle on
that yourself.
Gotta watch them gurus like a hawk.

As far as an ideal gray space for QTR output, a quick experiment shows
that a custom dot gain space of 31% (put 81 in the 50 box) makes 50%
gray equal to a LAB value of 50.
2.2 gamma is pretty close also, L50=52% in gamma 2.2.
Whether or not that means those spaces on monitor will closely match
QTR output on paper would have to be tested.
If you are doing RGB to gray conversions, there's something to be said
for using spaces of equal gamma. AdobeRGB and gray 2.2 or ColorMatch
and gray 1.8.
If you have plenty of high bit info in your files these concerns are a
bit less.

 Tyler

RE: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by Thomas Fors

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Stephen Billard wrote:

> 
> Ah!
> 
> Any one have an idea of how I should handle this? I could delete the
> previous file, but I didn't want to delete any files in case you wanted them
> again. 
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 

My recommendation would complicate your code a bit, but I think ultimately it would make it easier for the user.

1. Don't move any files.  Once you're done processing them, you can create a zero-length file in the processed folder of the same filename which indicates it has already been processed.

2. If the user prints again using the same file, you can detect that the timestamp on the real file is now more current than the timestamp of the zero-length file and print it again.

3. If the user cleans up the drop folder by deleting or moving old files, you can detect this and delete any files from the processed folder that are no longer needed.

--Tom

RE: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale

2004-08-15 by Joe Dempsey

Tyler:
You missed my gall bladder and spleen.
Joe
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Tyler Boley [mailto:tyler@...]
  Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 6:48 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Dempsey"
  <jdempsey@c...> wrote:
  > Nelson:
  > The gamma setting for Windows is 2.2, for Mac 1.8 ... at least
  that's what
  > two genuine PS gurus have told me.

  Joe, sorry but that's an old rule that doesn't really apply any more.
  Photoshop corrects for whatever gamma the space the file resides
  within then to the gamma of the monior profile. You could easily
  reprofile your monitor to a different gamma setting, and assuming both
  profiles were good, the file would display the same in Photoshop.
  Many of us Mac people profile our monitors to 2.2 now, so files will
  display the same with non-icc aware apps like browsers.
  At any rate, the gamma decision for Photoshop spaces is not a platform
  issue.

  > When converting to BW, direct to
  > grayscale is the worst option because it considers converts colors
  to gray
  > equally.

  Not meaning to beat up on you, but that's not true either. I believe
  it's a 30/59/11channel mix.

  >...LEAVE BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST
  > ALONE, THESE ARE DESTRUCTIVE ADJUSTMENTS ... levels and curves are
  > non-destructive adjustments.

  Sorry again. All of these edits are destructive. Brightness and
  contrast are generally not advised as they will probably clip without
  your knowledge. With levels and curves at least you have a handle on
  that yourself.
  Gotta watch them gurus like a hawk.

  As far as an ideal gray space for QTR output, a quick experiment shows
  that a custom dot gain space of 31% (put 81 in the 50 box) makes 50%
  gray equal to a LAB value of 50.
  2.2 gamma is pretty close also, L50=52% in gamma 2.2.
  Whether or not that means those spaces on monitor will closely match
  QTR output on paper would have to be tested.
  If you are doing RGB to gray conversions, there's something to be said
  for using spaces of equal gamma. AdobeRGB and gray 2.2 or ColorMatch
  and gray 1.8.
  If you have plenty of high bit info in your files these concerns are a
  bit less.

  Tyler



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by donbga

Stephen,

Why not build a list of files to be printed and the ones that have 
been print and don't bother to move the files. Then allow the user to 
mark which file or files should be printed/reprinted.

Don Bryant

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> Ah!
> 
> Any one have an idea of how I should handle this? I could delete the
> previous file, but I didn't want to delete any files in case you 
wanted them
> again. 
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: johnlill2@y... [mailto:johnlill2@y...] 
> > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 8:47 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> > 
> > 
> > Tom,
> > 
> > Were you trying to print an image more than once? Stephen's 
QTRGUI 
> > moves the image to a subfolder named "Processed" if you have 
folder 
> > monitoring turned on. So if you print an image, then print it 
again 
> > by copying it into your monitored folder, you will get that error 
> > message because the file already exists in the Processed folder. 
I 
> > know - it happened to me :)
> > 
> > John L
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom 
Husband" 
> > <thusband@s...> wrote:
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen
> > > Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> > > > QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release 
supports
> > > these new
> > > > printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> > > > 
> > > > -Stephen
> > > >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> > > 
> > > Thanks Stephen.  This will make it pretty easy.
> > > 
> > > I've set up a folder on the partition where my images are and
> > pointed 
> > > your QTRgui v 3.0 to it.  I'll use Qimage to print to the file 
but
> > I 
> > > get a Quad Tone RIP Front End message that says, "Unable to 
Rename
> > > G:\print\lightpole.tif".  I thought it might have to do with 
> > network 
> > > sharing of the folder so I made sure it was allowed but it still
> > > won't print. 
> > > 
> > > If I drag the file to the Drop Target my 1280 will kick in but 
the
> > > paper just zooms through without printing.  Same thing will 
happen 
> > if 
> > > I drag the file to Print-1280.bat.  My printer is connected via
> > USB 
> > > so I thought that might be it but I just canceled the previous
> > print 
> > > job and dragged it, again, to the .bat file and this time it
> > > printed.  In the cmd.exe file the text refers to LPT3, would 
that
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > have anything to do with it?
> > > 
> > > Any ideas?
> > > 
> > > Thanks again for your efforts.
> > > 
> > > Tom
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > --------------------~--> 
> > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------~-> 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> > preferences by visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> > or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> > removed from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> > posts may be removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> > decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> > Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> > THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> > INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> > IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> > ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >

RE: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by Stephen Billard

This would not be too bad to program, but it would slow the program down
considerably as the list of files in the monitored folder increases. Since
right now this check happens every second, I think people would complain.

I've decided to give you a chance to remove the duplicate file in the
Processed folder. If you don't remove it, folder monitoring will be stopped
so you can manually correct things. If you do remove it, processing will go
on as normal.

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Fors [mailto:tom@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 5:44 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Stephen Billard wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Ah!
> 
> > 
> 
> > Any one have an idea of how I should handle this? I could delete the
> 
> > previous file, but I didn't want to delete any files in case you 
> > wanted them
> 
> > again.
> 
> > 
> 
> > -Stephen
> 
> >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> My recommendation would complicate your code a bit, but I 
> think ultimately it would make it easier for the user.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Don't move any files.  Once you're done processing them, 
> you can create a zero-length file in the processed folder of 
> the same filename which indicates it has already been processed.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. If the user prints again using the same file, you can 
> detect that the timestamp on the real file is now more 
> current than the timestamp of the zero-length file and print it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. If the user cleans up the drop folder by deleting or 
> moving old files, you can detect this and delete any files 
> from the processed folder that are no longer needed.
> 
> 
> 
> --Tom
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
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> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

Re: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale

2004-08-15 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Dempsey"
<jdempsey@c...> wrote:
> Tyler:
> You missed my gall bladder and spleen.
> Joe

Give me time man!

Didn't mean to land on you. There are people out there taking money to
teach Photoshop that know suprisingly little, it's a growth industry.
I had a digital photo teacher attempt to convince me that scanning at
a lower resolution would make for better sharpness, as a rule. Well
sure, those little square pixels will get real sharp if you make the
file small enough.
It's a deep app, so people are anxious to get a handle on it, color
management too.
Not saying your gurus are suspect, just just wanted to correct any
info being passed along, it has a way of becoming truth through
repetition.
Kinda like current politics.
Tyler

RE: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale

2004-08-15 by Joe Dempsey

Otay Buckwheat!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Tyler Boley [mailto:tyler@...]
  Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:19 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] From RGB to grayscale


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Dempsey"
  <jdempsey@c...> wrote:
  > Tyler:
  > You missed my gall bladder and spleen.
  > Joe

  Give me time man!

  Didn't mean to land on you. There are people out there taking money to
  teach Photoshop that know suprisingly little, it's a growth industry.
  I had a digital photo teacher attempt to convince me that scanning at
  a lower resolution would make for better sharpness, as a rule. Well
  sure, those little square pixels will get real sharp if you make the
  file small enough.
  It's a deep app, so people are anxious to get a handle on it, color
  management too.
  Not saying your gurus are suspect, just just wanted to correct any
  info being passed along, it has a way of becoming truth through
  repetition.
  Kinda like current politics.
  Tyler



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
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them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
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printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
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  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by Tom Husband

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> This message comes because there is not a folder 
named "G"\print\Processed".
> That folder should have been created by QTRgui. Is it possible that
> permissions on the drive will not allow it to create the folder?
> 
> Anyway, just make the folder and everything should work. QTRgui 
moves the
> file out of the folder so it won't get into a loop printing it. If 
it can't
> move it, it worries!
> 
> As far as the actual printing, Roy will probably have to address 
your
> question. However, it sounds like the printer is doing something, 
so at
> least the connection to the printer is working. Must be something in
> processing the image.
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen

Thanks Stephen.  I think I figured it out.  It seems to work OK now.

Tom

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by Ernst Dinkla

Stephen Billard wrote:
> This would not be too bad to program, but it would slow the program down
> considerably as the list of files in the monitored folder increases. Since
> right now this check happens every second, I think people would complain.
> 
> I've decided to give you a chance to remove the duplicate file in the
> Processed folder. If you don't remove it, folder monitoring will be stopped
> so you can manually correct things. If you do remove it, processing will go
> on as normal.
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen

The file list in itself isn't a bad idea. Many RIPs have a 
structure like that. A RIP Queue and a Print Queue. Add a growing 
number to the name when an image is transferred to the 
"Processed" map. The user can clean the "Processed" map regularly 
and keep the ones he would like to print without using the Qimage 
route again. Of course you better strip the number then for a new 
print. If he also checks the Qimage logfile then it should be 
easier to see what settings were used. A number at the start of 
the name will sort the printed files even better.

Vuescan has a similar number addition to names  0001+.  Quite 
easy when lots of negatives have to be scanned.

Ernst

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by johnlill2@yahoo.com

Stephen,

Personally, I would rather the file was just deleted from the 
monitored folder after printing. In my workflow, I just copy the 
file to the monitored folder when I want to print, so when QTRgui 
moves it to the processed folder, I have to go and delete it to 
avoid duplicate copies of images building up. I will probably go 
back to dropping the file onto QTRgui. That works great for me. An 
option to either "move or delete after processing" would be nice, 
but I realize that once you start adding a lot of options, things 
can get out of hand.

Thanks again for all your work.

John L

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> Ah!
> 
> Any one have an idea of how I should handle this? I could delete 
the
> previous file, but I didn't want to delete any files in case you 
wanted them
> again. 
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: johnlill2@y... [mailto:johnlill2@y...] 
> > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 8:47 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> > 
> > 
> > Tom,
> > 
> > Were you trying to print an image more than once? Stephen's 
QTRGUI 
> > moves the image to a subfolder named "Processed" if you have 
folder 
> > monitoring turned on. So if you print an image, then print it 
again 
> > by copying it into your monitored folder, you will get that 
error 
> > message because the file already exists in the Processed folder. 
I 
> > know - it happened to me :)
> > 
> > John L
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom 
Husband" 
> > <thusband@s...> wrote:
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen
> > > Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> > > > QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release 
supports
> > > these new
> > > > printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> > > > 
> > > > -Stephen
> > > >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> > > 
> > > Thanks Stephen.  This will make it pretty easy.
> > > 
> > > I've set up a folder on the partition where my images are and
> > pointed 
> > > your QTRgui v 3.0 to it.  I'll use Qimage to print to the file 
but
> > I 
> > > get a Quad Tone RIP Front End message that says, "Unable to 
Rename
> > > G:\print\lightpole.tif".  I thought it might have to do with 
> > network 
> > > sharing of the folder so I made sure it was allowed but it 
still
> > > won't print. 
> > > 
> > > If I drag the file to the Drop Target my 1280 will kick in but 
the
> > > paper just zooms through without printing.  Same thing will 
happen 
> > if 
> > > I drag the file to Print-1280.bat.  My printer is connected via
> > USB 
> > > so I thought that might be it but I just canceled the previous
> > print 
> > > job and dragged it, again, to the .bat file and this time it
> > > printed.  In the cmd.exe file the text refers to LPT3, would 
that
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > have anything to do with it?
> > > 
> > > Any ideas?
> > > 
> > > Thanks again for your efforts.
> > > 
> > > Tom
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > --------------------~--> 
> > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------~-> 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> > preferences by visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> > or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> > removed from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> > posts may be removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> > decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> > Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> > THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> > INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> > IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> > ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >

Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by johnglodge

I don't think that generally these files are the storage area for 
photos they mostly reperesent temporary storage for print jobs which 
means that they can be deleted though some will retain them.

I suggest a number of configuration options from which the user can 
choose:

1. Print and delete.
2. Print and put in a processed folder.
3. same as 2. with automatic delete of processed folder files that 
are more than "x" days old.

...John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> Ah!
> 
> Any one have an idea of how I should handle this? I could delete 
the
> previous file, but I didn't want to delete any files in case you 
wanted them
> again. 
> 
> -Stephen
>  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: johnlill2@y... [mailto:johnlill2@y...] 
> > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 8:47 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3
> > 
> > 
> > Tom,
> > 
> > Were you trying to print an image more than once? Stephen's 
QTRGUI 
> > moves the image to a subfolder named "Processed" if you have 
folder 
> > monitoring turned on. So if you print an image, then print it 
again 
> > by copying it into your monitored folder, you will get that 
error 
> > message because the file already exists in the Processed folder. 
I 
> > know - it happened to me :)
> > 
> > John L
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom 
Husband" 
> > <thusband@s...> wrote:
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen
> > > Billard" <stephen@s...> wrote:
> > > > QTRgui release 0.3 is also now available. This release 
supports
> > > these new
> > > > printers (and any future ones Roy releases.)
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.sbillard.org/Shareware/QTRgui.htm
> > > > 
> > > > -Stephen
> > > >  www.sbillard.org/Stephen
> > > 
> > > Thanks Stephen.  This will make it pretty easy.
> > > 
> > > I've set up a folder on the partition where my images are and
> > pointed 
> > > your QTRgui v 3.0 to it.  I'll use Qimage to print to the file 
but
> > I 
> > > get a Quad Tone RIP Front End message that says, "Unable to 
Rename
> > > G:\print\lightpole.tif".  I thought it might have to do with 
> > network 
> > > sharing of the folder so I made sure it was allowed but it 
still
> > > won't print. 
> > > 
> > > If I drag the file to the Drop Target my 1280 will kick in but 
the
> > > paper just zooms through without printing.  Same thing will 
happen 
> > if 
> > > I drag the file to Print-1280.bat.  My printer is connected via
> > USB 
> > > so I thought that might be it but I just canceled the previous
> > print 
> > > job and dragged it, again, to the .bat file and this time it
> > > printed.  In the cmd.exe file the text refers to LPT3, would 
that
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > have anything to do with it?
> > > 
> > > Any ideas?
> > > 
> > > Thanks again for your efforts.
> > > 
> > > Tom
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > --------------------~--> 
> > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------~-> 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> > preferences by visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> > or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> > removed from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> > posts may be removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> > decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> > Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> > THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> > INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> > IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> > ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >

Re: QuadToneRIP for Windows - Release 3

2004-08-15 by dlruckus

Hi Roy,
Do you plan on ,at some point, xfering drivers for the 3000 printer as
well?
Thanks.
Duane
 


-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington"
<roy@h...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Things are moving along.   
> There are now profiles for several more printers: 
> 
> 1270 and 1280 using MIS UT2 inks
> 
> 7600 and 9600 using Epson UltraChrome inks
> 
> Plus there is now Custom Page size capability 
> -- you can specify any size paper that will fit in the printer.
> 
> See the download page for more info.
> 
> Roy
> www.harrington.com

[Digital BW] Quadtone Rip and Curve Creation for Windows

2004-08-16 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Roy,

For those of us with spectros... How do we create our own curves in the 
Windows world?


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.