Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

Has the group come to any kind of consensus on a name?  I will be showing
my first  non-darkroom  produced B&W images in October.  I hope to call
them something other than digital images.  
If not, what names are at the top of the list now? Help!

Perry 


> [Original Message]
> From: J Vee <j.vee@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 8/19/2004 2:59:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] what to call these prints - try this out...
>
>
> On 8/13/04 5:25 PM, "Andre" <am1000@...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > A wise person once said: "The print is nothing. The image is
everything."
> > 
> > Somehow that doesnt seem to apply to digital prints.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> Yes, it does apply.  This same sort of obsessive discussion about
> photographic terminology and technique has been going on a long, long,
time.
> It is much easier to pursue (and discuss) terminology and photographic
> technical minutia than actually make a \ufffdwonderful\ufffd image by whatever
means.
> J Vee
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
as they are often being updated.
>
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carbon ink print or giclee.  

Perry McNeal <pjmcneal@...> wrote:
Hello,

Has the group come to any kind of consensus on a name? I will be showing
my first non-darkroom produced B&W images in October. I hope to call
them something other than digital images. 
If not, what names are at the top of the list now? Help!

Perry 


> [Original Message]
> From: J Vee 
> To: 
> Date: 8/19/2004 2:59:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] what to call these prints - try this out...
>
>
> On 8/13/04 5:25 PM, "Andre" wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > A wise person once said: "The print is nothing. The image is
everything."
> > 
> > Somehow that doesnt seem to apply to digital prints.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> Yes, it does apply. This same sort of obsessive discussion about
> photographic terminology and technique has been going on a long, long,
time.
> It is much easier to pursue (and discuss) terminology and photographic
> technical minutia than actually make a �wonderful� image by whatever
means.
> J Vee
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
�OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR
THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
> 
>
>





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm bringing some digital prints to a gallery tomorrow for an exhibit
opening next month.  Unless the gallery owner has other ideas I plan to call
them "carbon ink" prints. Nobody will know what that means but unless
someone wants to buy it won't matter and if they do the gallery owner can
explain. I'll call them "digital ink jet prints" before I'll call them
"giclee."
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Perry McNeal" <pjmcneal@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] what to call these prints.


>
> Hello,
>
> Has the group come to any kind of consensus on a name?  I will be showing
> my first  non-darkroom  produced B&W images in October.  I hope to call
> them something other than digital images.
> If not, what names are at the top of the list now? Help!
>
> Perry
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: J Vee <j.vee@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: 8/19/2004 2:59:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] what to call these prints - try this out...
> >
> >
> > On 8/13/04 5:25 PM, "Andre" <am1000@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > A wise person once said: "The print is nothing. The image is
> everything."
> > >
> > > Somehow that doesnt seem to apply to digital prints.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Yes, it does apply.  This same sort of obsessive discussion about
> > photographic terminology and technique has been going on a long, long,
> time.
> > It is much easier to pursue (and discuss) terminology and photographic
> > technical minutia than actually make a \ufffdwonderful\ufffd image by whatever
> means.
> > J Vee
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
> as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
OR
> THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO
> GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
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>

I like the name carbon ink print.  however, I showed an image at a gallery and the gallery owner preferred giclee.

"B. Campbell" <bellis60@...t> wrote:I'm bringing some digital prints to a gallery tomorrow for an exhibit
opening next month.  Unless the gallery owner has other ideas I plan to call
them "carbon ink" prints. Nobody will know what that means but unless
someone wants to buy it won't matter and if they do the gallery owner can
explain. I'll call them "digital ink jet prints" before I'll call them
"giclee."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Perry McNeal" <pjmcneal@mindspring.com>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] what to call these prints.


>
> Hello,
>
> Has the group come to any kind of consensus on a name?  I will be showing
> my first  non-darkroom  produced B&W images in October.  I hope to call
> them something other than digital images.
> If not, what names are at the top of the list now? Help!
>
> Perry
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: J Vee <j.vee@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: 8/19/2004 2:59:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] what to call these prints - try this out...
> >
> >
> > On 8/13/04 5:25 PM, "Andre" <am1000@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > A wise person once said: "The print is nothing. The image is
> everything."
> > >
> > > Somehow that doesnt seem to apply to digital prints.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Yes, it does apply.  This same sort of obsessive discussion about
> > photographic terminology and technique has been going on a long, long,
> time.
> > It is much easier to pursue (and discuss) terminology and photographic
> > technical minutia than actually make a �wonderful� image by whatever
> means.
> > J Vee
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
> as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
OR
> THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO
> GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, if they were made using a pigmented ink printer, such as one
that uses ultrachrome or piezography, they could be called Pigment
Prints. 

That term seems to be pretty accepted. The Museum of Photographic Arts
here in San Diego has an exhibition right now by Robert Weingarten and
all of the prints are labled as pigment prints. They were printed
using a 9600 on one of the textured papers, not sure which right now
though. It doesn't have the "stigma" of digital print or the history
of giclee. 




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ross Borgida
<borgida@y...> wrote:
> I like the name carbon ink print.  however, I showed an image at a
gallery and the gallery owner preferred giclee.
> 
> "B. Campbell" <bellis60@v...> wrote:I'm bringing some digital prints
to a gallery tomorrow for an exhibit
> opening next month.  Unless the gallery owner has other ideas I plan
to call
> them "carbon ink" prints. Nobody will know what that means but unless
> someone wants to buy it won't matter and if they do the gallery
owner can
> explain. I'll call them "digital ink jet prints" before I'll call them
> "giclee."
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Perry McNeal" <pjmcneal@m...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 4:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] what to call these prints.
> 
> 
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Has the group come to any kind of consensus on a name?  I will be
showing
> > my first  non-darkroom  produced B&W images in October.  I hope to
call

> > them something other than digital images.
> > If not, what names are at the top of the list now? Help!
> >
> > Perry
> >
> >

On Thursday, August 19, 2004, at 08:16 PM, Josh Freeman wrote:

> Well, if they were made using a pigmented ink printer, such as one
> that uses ultrachrome or piezography, they could be called Pigment
> Prints.
>
> That term seems to be pretty accepted. The Museum of Photographic Arts
> here in San Diego has an exhibition right now by Robert Weingarten and
> all of the prints are labled as pigment prints. They were printed
> using a 9600 on one of the textured papers, not sure which right now
> though. It doesn't have the "stigma" of digital print or the history
> of giclee.

Hi, Josh

I lived in San Diego for many years, and studied photography at 
Grossmont with Suda House, and learned a lot from Jim Noel, David Wing 
and Gene Nocon- went to about a year's worth of his Final Friday 
workshops.  I left in '93, too early for MOPA to have considered inkjet 
prints, but I'm very pleased to learn that now that inkjet prints are 
as good as they are, that MOPA is showing them, as I think galleries 
today should.

James Irelan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello James,

>I lived in San Diego for many years, and studied photography at 
>Grossmont with Suda House, and learned a lot from Jim Noel, 
>David Wing and Gene Nocon- 

Amazing you should mention David Wing.  Just today I received his
"Death Valley" book.  I had not heard of him before, but I saw the
book on the PhotoEye web site last week and decided to take a chance
on it - boy am I glad I did.  It's teriffic.  Can you share some
thoughts, information, anecdotes about him?  There is no technical
info in the book, but it looks like large format platinum.

It is some of the most sensitive landscape work I've seen, and reminds
me somewhat of Laura Gilpin's photos, another favorite of mine.  The
book jacket remarks said he spent 100 winter days in Death Valley over
12 years. I have been wanting to go to DV but haven't made it yet (I
live in Florida).  I have a brother in CA and have managed two short
day trips to the Nat'l Mojave Scenic Area during visits.  I love the
desert and this book has just pumped some air on the coals.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

On Friday, August 20, 2004, at 07:33 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello James,
>
> >I lived in San Diego for many years, and studied photography at
> >Grossmont with Suda House, and learned a lot from Jim Noel,
> >David Wing and Gene Nocon-
>
> Amazing you should mention David Wing.  Just today I received his
> "Death Valley" book.  I had not heard of him before, but I saw the
> book on the PhotoEye web site last week and decided to take a chance
> on it - boy am I glad I did.  It's teriffic.  Can you share some
> thoughts, information, anecdotes about him?  There is no technical
> info in the book, but it looks like large format platinum.
>
> It is some of the most sensitive landscape work I've seen, and reminds
> me somewhat of Laura Gilpin's photos, another favorite of mine.  The
> book jacket remarks said he spent 100 winter days in Death Valley over
> 12 years. I have been wanting to go to DV but haven't made it yet (I
> live in Florida).  I have a brother in CA and have managed two short
> day trips to the Nat'l Mojave Scenic Area during visits.  I love the
> desert and this book has just pumped some air on the coals.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>

Clayton,

I just looked up the Photo Eye site, and found David Wing's book, which 
I had not known about.  I was hoping for a pic of him, or some other 
bio info to confirm that it's the same David Wing, but couldn't find 
any.  My guess is that it is the same guy.  When I knew him, he was 
shooting a lot of desert scenes as well.

He was an instructor at Grossmont College, which is a community college 
in the San Diego area with a very good photo department, of which he 
was department head at the time (1990).  He was shooting 4x5 Tri-X at 
the time, and he was also doing some computer imaging when it was still 
too early for any viable printing.  Somewhere here I have a camera that 
he put together from a Mamiya lens and a 4x5 back, which he called the 
"guerilla journalist", or something like that.  I bought it from him 
during one of the yearly photo equipment yard sales the college has.  
He is one of the top black and white printers in the San Diego area.

Gene Nocon is another one.  Gene has (or had, last I knew) a black and 
white printing business in San Diego, called In House.  Gene lived for 
some 18 years in London, where he printed for top European commercial , 
fine art, and fashion photogs like Norman Parkinson and Cecil Beaton, 
as well as for members of the Royal Family.  These guys have allowed 
him to keep prints of their images, so the walls of his place have more 
amazing images on them than I've ever seen in a single gallery.  Gene 
was also notable in that once a month, the last Friday in the month, he 
had an open house, which he called Final Friday.  Anyone could go, and 
he would tell everyone exactly how he worked, how he printed.  He was a 
printer who used graded paper, and was expert at flashing it to get 
intermediate grades. But the amazing thing to me, and a testimony to 
his open mindedness, was that  after years of working a certain way, 
with graded papers and flashing, most guys would be rooted in stone 
forever.  Not Gene.  When the Oriental printing head with its mouse 
came out, he thought it was so cool and had so much power and 
flexibility, he immediately started using it with variable contrast 
papers, and even developed techniques for using it that Oriental hadn't 
thought of.    And, as opposed to some who jealously guard their 
secrets, he was one who would tell you how he did everything he did.  I 
learned techniques like flashing and lith printing from him, and 
benefited from just being around a truly inspired and generous spirit.  
And the prints on the walls.... fantastic.  He had a book out that then 
went out of print, and that came back for a short printing.  I have it 
here somewhere, but can't lay my hands on it and its name escapes me 
right now.  He also had a web site a few years ago, but that was an 
early attempt, and his images were GIFs (I pointed out to him that 
jpegs would have been better- we were both just getting familiar with 
digital at the time), and they didn't do justice.  Anyway, it'd be well 
worth looking him up if that would ever be workable for you.  He's a 
guy that any other printer would want to talk to, and whose work anyone 
would want to see.  It wouldn't surprise me if he's heavily involved in 
inkjet printing today.  I don't know that that's true, but I know that 
if he is, he'd be tops at it.

Back to David Wing- you saw my post in reply to one by Josh Freeman, 
who is currently working in the Grossmont photo department.  He tells 
me that David is retired now.  You could probably get additional info 
from him.

James


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Clayton and James,

Yes that book is by the David Wing from Grossmont College. He retired
from teaching this past year and is working in Los Angeles now.
www.davidwing.com As for anecdotes, I don't really have any as he
almost always taught during the day and I was basically only there at
night. So I never had a class with him in the 3 years I had been there
before he retired, so I never really got to know him. I do know that
he has been printing with a 7600 for quite a while now, though last I
heard he still printed silver as well. As for what is in the book, I
couldn't say. you could always ask him, his email is on the site.

As for Gene Nocon, after you mentioned what he had done James, I
remembered that I had heard of him and his workshops from Jim Noel,
don't know if he still does those friday open houses or not, at least
in 2001 he did. I just looked at his website and it says he still
prints traditional black and white but has also embraced digital.

And yes, without modesty, Grossmont does have one of the best photo
departments in at least San Diego.

Josh Freeman


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Irelan
<james@r...> wrote:

> 
> On Friday, August 20, 2004, at 07:33 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> 
> > Hello James,
> >
> > >I lived in San Diego for many years, and studied photography at
> > >Grossmont with Suda House, and learned a lot from Jim Noel,
> > >David Wing and Gene Nocon-
> >
> > Amazing you should mention David Wing.  Just today I received his
> > "Death Valley" book.  I had not heard of him before, but I saw the
> > book on the PhotoEye web site last week and decided to take a chance
> > on it - boy am I glad I did.  It's teriffic.  Can you share some
> > thoughts, information, anecdotes about him?  There is no technical
> > info in the book, but it looks like large format platinum.
> >
> > It is some of the most sensitive landscape work I've seen, and reminds
> > me somewhat of Laura Gilpin's photos, another favorite of mine.  The
> > book jacket remarks said he spent 100 winter days in Death Valley over
> > 12 years. I have been wanting to go to DV but haven't made it yet (I
> > live in Florida).  I have a brother in CA and have managed two short
> > day trips to the Nat'l Mojave Scenic Area during visits.  I love the
> > desert and this book has just pumped some air on the coals.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> >
> >
> 
> Clayton,
> 
> I just looked up the Photo Eye site, and found David Wing's book, which 
> I had not known about.  I was hoping for a pic of him, or some other 
> bio info to confirm that it's the same David Wing, but couldn't find 
> any.  My guess is that it is the same guy.  When I knew him, he was 
> shooting a lot of desert scenes as well.
> 
> He was an instructor at Grossmont College, which is a community college 
> in the San Diego area with a very good photo department, of which he 
> was department head at the time (1990).  He was shooting 4x5 Tri-X at 
> the time, and he was also doing some computer imaging when it was still 
> too early for any viable printing.  Somewhere here I have a camera that 
> he put together from a Mamiya lens and a 4x5 back, which he called the 
> "guerilla journalist", or something like that.  I bought it from him 
> during one of the yearly photo equipment yard sales the college has.  
> He is one of the top black and white printers in the San Diego area.
> 
> Gene Nocon is another one.  Gene has (or had, last I knew) a black and 
> white printing business in San Diego, called In House.  Gene lived for 
> some 18 years in London, where he printed for top European commercial , 
> fine art, and fashion photogs like Norman Parkinson and Cecil Beaton, 
> as well as for members of the Royal Family.  These guys have allowed 
> him to keep prints of their images, so the walls of his place have more 
> amazing images on them than I've ever seen in a single gallery.  Gene 
> was also notable in that once a month, the last Friday in the month, he 
> had an open house, which he called Final Friday.  Anyone could go, and 
> he would tell everyone exactly how he worked, how he printed.  He was a 
> printer who used graded paper, and was expert at flashing it to get 
> intermediate grades. But the amazing thing to me, and a testimony to 
> his open mindedness, was that  after years of working a certain way, 
> with graded papers and flashing, most guys would be rooted in stone 
> forever.  Not Gene.  When the Oriental printing head with its mouse 
> came out, he thought it was so cool and had so much power and 
> flexibility, he immediately started using it with variable contrast 
> papers, and even developed techniques for using it that Oriental hadn't 
> thought of.    And, as opposed to some who jealously guard their 
> secrets, he was one who would tell you how he did everything he did.  I 
> learned techniques like flashing and lith printing from him, and 
> benefited from just being around a truly inspired and generous spirit.  
> And the prints on the walls.... fantastic.  He had a book out that then 
> went out of print, and that came back for a short printing.  I have it 
> here somewhere, but can't lay my hands on it and its name escapes me 
> right now.  He also had a web site a few years ago, but that was an 
> early attempt, and his images were GIFs (I pointed out to him that 
> jpegs would have been better- we were both just getting familiar with 
> digital at the time), and they didn't do justice.  Anyway, it'd be well 
> worth looking him up if that would ever be workable for you.  He's a 
> guy that any other printer would want to talk to, and whose work anyone 
> would want to see.  It wouldn't surprise me if he's heavily involved in 
> inkjet printing today.  I don't know that that's true, but I know that 
> if he is, he'd be tops at it.
> 
> Back to David Wing- you saw my post in reply to one by Josh Freeman, 
> who is currently working in the Grossmont photo department.  He tells 
> me that David is retired now.  You could probably get additional info 
> from him.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello James, Josh,

Thanks very much for your replies and the info about the other
photographers as well.  All very interesting reading.  I went to the
web site and saw mention of some other interesting publishing
ventures.


>...bio info to confirm that it's the same David Wing, 
>He was an instructor at Grossmont College, 

Yes, one and the same.  The book jacket did mention his being on the
art faculty at Grossmont College.  

I've been a collector of photo books for years, and can say that this
one is a bargain.  It is beautifully printed and bound (in the US), is
about 75 pages of matte surface photos and is only $30.  It reminds me
very much of William Clift's "Certain Places".  I prefer the matte
surface printing over the shiny enameled pages like in the AA books. 
I have several (Alfred Stieglitz, Laura Gilpin, William Clift among my
favorites) and greatly prefer that look.  Seems like that technique
is used more for platinum work, and David Wing's photos have that
look.  This is a very fine body of work and beautifully presented. 
It was published in 2003 and 3000 copies were printed.  

One of my great joys is to settle into a comfy chair with a good photo
book.  There are several in my collection that I return to
periodically, and this will most likely become one of them.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

>
> I've been a collector of photo books for years

I don't know how widely known he is, but one of the greats in my book 
is Ray McSavaney.

James


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]