Digital BW, The Print

-----Original Message-----
From: laraley2001 [mailto:LARAHARTLEY_1@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:51 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "laraley2001" 
<LARAHARTLEY_1@H...> wrote:
> 
> I was getting such good prints with the MIS quadtone inks in my 1160 using
PS 7 in OS 
9 I 
> decided to switch to CIS when I upgraded to OS X and PS CS. Now I am not
sure how to 
> make the curves work. When I apply the curve I get a print that appears to
have been 
> solarized.
> 
> I print using the Print with Preview then I am not sure where to go from
there - because 
> the settings I use for colour on the 2200 do not seem to be working. If I
don't use a 
curve I 
> get a pretty good looking b&w print but I want to be able to make warm
tone images on 
> Crane Museo cards.
> 
> Is there a different workflow for PS CS and OS X?
> 
> lara

No body knows the answer to this one?

lara






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-----Original Message-----
From: laraley2001 [mailto:LARAHARTLEY_1@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 11:01 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> Lara,
> 
> I'm not sure what you're using, but I'm guessing a 2200.  What inkset are
> you using? The UT7?

MIS VM on an 1160.


> I don't have a Mac, so I can't say if PS CS and OS X are different.
> Historically if the driver is set to "No Color Adjustment" the curves I've
> made are cross-platform.

Yep, that is what I was doing.

 > Adobe has made some strange changes to the Gray Gamma 2.2 to adobe RGB
> conversion, but it should not cause what you're describing.  Usually there
> is a setting that is wrong or there is a profile being used that should
not
> be there.

I figure i have something set wrong, just can't figure out what it is. In
Printer Settings what 
do I use? The profile for the paper and????

> 
> I have no curves for Museo in any case. So, it could just be that the
curve
> you're using is inappropriate.

I was using EM, but was going to try the Museo just to see what happens. But
mostly EM, 
or Velvet or even Radiant White.

thanks paul

lara






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ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "laraley2001" <LARAHARTLEY_1@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 9:50 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "laraley2001"
<LARAHARTLEY_1@H...> wrote:
>
> I was getting such good prints with the MIS quadtone inks in my 1160 using
PS 7 in OS
9 I
> decided to switch to CIS when I upgraded to OS X and PS CS. Now I am not
sure how to
> make the curves work. When I apply the curve I get a print that appears to
have been
> solarized.
>
> I print using the Print with Preview then I am not sure where to go from
there - because
> the settings I use for colour on the 2200 do not seem to be working. If I
don't use a
curve I
> get a pretty good looking b&w print but I want to be able to make warm
tone images on
> Crane Museo cards.
>
> Is there a different workflow for PS CS and OS X?
>
> lara

No body knows the answer to this one?

lara






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:41:40 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "B. Campbell"
> <bellis60@v...> wrote:
>> "No body knows the answer to this one?"
> 
> perhaps it's worth stating again-
> 
> If you performed a standard install of Panther you may not be using
> the necessary Epson driver. This would result in improper results.
> If your printer driver dialogue box doesn't seem to have the normal
> options you were used to in a previous OS you are probably using the
> default gimp drivers that Panther installs.
> You need to go here, download and run the uninstaller-
> http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php3
> 
> Then download and install the latest correct Epson driver from the
> Epson website.
> 
> This may not be your problem, but it's worth looking into.
> Tyler
> www.custom-digital.com
>

> example)
> 
> 
> > From: Tyler Boley <tyler@t...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:41:40 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "B. Campbell"
> > <bellis60@v...> wrote:
> >> "No body knows the answer to this one?"
> > 
> > perhaps it's worth stating again-
> > 
> > If you performed a standard install of Panther you may not be using
> > the necessary Epson driver. This would result in improper results.
> > If your printer driver dialogue box doesn't seem to have the normal
> > options you were used to in a previous OS you are probably using the
> > default gimp drivers that Panther installs.
> > You need to go here, download and run the uninstaller-
> > http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php3
> > 
> > Then download and install the latest correct Epson driver from the
> > Epson website.
> > 
> > This may not be your problem, but it's worth looking into.
> > Tyler
> > www.custom-digital.com
> >

> From: laraley2001 <LARAHARTLEY_1@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:20:57 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@t...> wrote:
>> 
>> Steve, I'm curious so I won't pass on advice more complex than
>> necessary. I haven't had to deal with this particular problem myself
>> so am only passing on advice from others.
>> I had the impression from various reports that the Panther/Gimp driver
>> combo made it difficult to consistantly select the Espon driver with
>> the default gimp drivers still installed.
>> Is that not the case, is it as simple as you suggest? There seemed to
>> be a lot of confusion about this when Panther was released.
>> Tyler
> 
> I have both drivers installed....not sure why I did that, but I only use the
> Epson USB when 
> printing either on the 1160 or the 2200.
> 
> It really is as easy as adding the printer specifying Epson USB - and I
> suppose one could
> just delete the other printer in the printer utility window. Is there any
> reason for the gimp
> driver at all?
> 
> lara
>

> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@btinternet.com>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:29:38 +0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X
> 
> 
> To answer Tyler - yes it is that easy although there have been instances
> with people using QTR, for example, where there is a clash.  I think this is
> resolved if you add/define the Epson printer first.
> 
> To answer Lara - I would delete the Gimp drivers unless as a last resort.
> You never know when you might need them and if they aren't a problem then
> why mess with them.
> 
> You can clearly see in the Printer List which printer is using what driver.
> 
> 
>> From: laraley2001 <LARAHARTLEY_1@...>
>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:20:57 -0000
>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
>> <tyler@t...> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Steve, I'm curious so I won't pass on advice more complex than
>>> necessary. I haven't had to deal with this particular problem myself
>>> so am only passing on advice from others.
>>> I had the impression from various reports that the Panther/Gimp driver
>>> combo made it difficult to consistantly select the Espon driver with
>>> the default gimp drivers still installed.
>>> Is that not the case, is it as simple as you suggest? There seemed to
>>> be a lot of confusion about this when Panther was released.
>>> Tyler
>> 
>> I have both drivers installed....not sure why I did that, but I only use the
>> Epson USB when 
>> printing either on the 1160 or the 2200.
>> 
>> It really is as easy as adding the printer specifying Epson USB - and I
>> suppose one could
>> just delete the other printer in the printer utility window. Is there any
>> reason for the gimp
>> driver at all?
>> 
>> lara
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

> From: john dean <deanwork2003@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:00:15 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] QTR and Ultrachrome
> 
> 
> 
> For you people out there using QTR and the Ultrachrome inkset, how neutral can
> you get 
> with this set up for monochrome prints? I assume you are adding some cyan and
> magenta 
> to the mix to overcome the natural warmness of the Ultrachrome black inks. How
> is the 
> metamerism when doing this to create a neutral or cool monochrome output. I
> realize the 
> paper choice effects this also. How do the "sepia" prints with very warm
> yellow tones look
> when created with QTR and this inkset.
> 
> John

-----Original Message-----
From: laraley2001 [mailto:LARAHARTLEY_1@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 11:18 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: quadtone curves in OS X



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> Lara,
> 
> The media types are not necessary what the driver calls for.  On the 1160
> Matte Paper Heavyweight was the one that is specified for most papers.
> Also, do not use any paper profiles in the "Print with Preview."  The Gray
> Gamma should be 2.2, in the past I used sRGB (more modern inkset curves
are
> all Adobe 1998), and the print space should be same as source.

Ah AH! That't it exactly. I was using paper profiles. Also I have my grey
gamma at 1.8 - 
now I have run out of paper so all testing stops! but I think I am at long
last on the right 
track. Your curves are just for EM, correct?

lara






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

> Lara,
> 
> The old MIS VM curves might not work with OS X.  Since I don't have a Mac,
> I'm not able to test this.
> 
> It's probably time to upgrade to the UT1 or other inkset.  The MIS Ultra
> Tone family inks are the only ones I now use and support.
> 
> 
> 
> (Lara, the following is largely what I've sent to you off list and expands
> on the subject.)
> 
> 
> 
> With the original MIS VM inkset and curves, the Drive Color Management was
> set to "Color Controls."  Unlike "No Color Adjustment" (which I now use),
> "Color Controls" tends to include and impose its own ideas of how color
> should be handled; and it is not cross-platform or independent of the OS.
> There had to be separate PC and Mac sets of curves with the old MIS VM 1160
> curves.  (Utilizing the sliders was the reason for the Color Controls
> setting in the past.)
> 
> So, there is a fair chance that OS X is not compatible with the existing
> 1160 MIS VM curves for the older Mac operating systems.
> 
> I have upgraded the VM inkset.  The new one is sold by MIS as the "UT"
> inkset.  This was the first Ultra Tone family inkset I made.  There are now
> a number of others.  For these new inksets I have new curves that use "No
> Color Adjustment" ("NCA") and are platform independent (as far as I know).
> 
> So, I recommend you switch to one of the new UT inksets.  The MIS-UT inkset
> (also known as UT-1) is a straight upgrade of the MIS VM inkset.  But, of
> course, no 2 inks are identical.  I have made new curves for the UT-1 inkset
> that use the NCA adjustment and are cross-platform.  These new curves would
> have a much better chance of working, first, with the new UT1 inkset, and,
> second, maybe even with the old MIS VM inkset. 
> 
> Of course, if one only prints with one tone, then the UT-FS (medium warm) or
> UT-FSN (neutral) inkset might be a good way to go.  Their curves are more
> tolerant of paper differences.  
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com