Digital BW, The Print

In my journey to fine B&W from Nikon V-scanned B&W negs I've been
playing with an image that never printed well in 1975 using a fine
Durst and Agfa Brovira...Tmax (never liked that stuff). Important
personal image. 

So far I've gotten best results scanning as POSITIVE, then inverting,
filtering dust & scratches (PS7), applying light USM, increasing
contrast (the pos scan is very flat). Print QTRgui/2200.

I'm getting more life (midtone separation) in shadow-sides of faces
than I have so far when scanning as negative...the overall image
appears sharper, with less USM, because certain tones aren't muddled. 

Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with this
image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it does?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon" 
<westsidemaurice@y...> wrote:
> In my journey to fine B&W from Nikon V-scanned B&W negs I've been
> playing with an image that never printed well in 1975 using a fine
> Durst and Agfa Brovira...Tmax (never liked that stuff). Important
> personal image. 
> 
> So far I've gotten best results scanning as POSITIVE, then inverting,
> filtering dust & scratches (PS7), applying light USM, increasing
> contrast (the pos scan is very flat). Print QTRgui/2200.
> 
> I'm getting more life (midtone separation) in shadow-sides of faces
> than I have so far when scanning as negative...the overall image
> appears sharper, with less USM, because certain tones aren't muddled. 
> 
> Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with this
> image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it does?

Hi; I too have a Nikon scanner, and scan as positives; this gives you 
all the information from the scan which you can then massage to your 
liking. If you scan as a negative, the software sets black point/ white 
point and contrast curve, and for a B&W neg it just doesn't work well. 
does a bit better for color negs though.

Steve Karafyllakis

Thanks Steve..

It's "often suggested" but I never really believed it was true... I
thought I was off into urban-scanning-mythologyland...

Did Nikon mention it somewhere... or is this just a wonderful bit of
Internet wisdom? 

> > 
> > Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with this
> > image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it does?
> 
> Hi; I too have a Nikon scanner, and scan as positives; this gives you 
> all the information from the scan which you can then massage to your 
> liking. If you scan as a negative, the software sets black point/ white 
> point and contrast curve, and for a B&W neg it just doesn't work well. 
> does a bit better for color negs though.
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis

This supposedly was important with the 8000 and is not necessary with the 9000.

Haven't tried it though.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon" <westsidemaurice@y...> 
wrote:

> Thanks Steve..
> 
> It's "often suggested" but I never really believed it was true... I
> thought I was off into urban-scanning-mythologyland...
> 
> Did Nikon mention it somewhere... or is this just a wonderful bit of
> Internet wisdom? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > 
> > > Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with this
> > > image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it does?

neg>neg>pos seems distinctly better with V than neg>pos BUT I've just
tested Mendel's neg>pos workflow in Vuescan and done even
better...sharper even...per this photo.net thread:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00C3h2




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Graham"
<gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> This supposedly was important with the 8000 and is not necessary
with the 9000.
> 
> Haven't tried it though.
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon"
<westsidemaurice@y...> 

> wrote:
> > Thanks Steve..
> > 
> > It's "often suggested" but I never really believed it was true... I
> > thought I was off into urban-scanning-mythologyland...
> > 
> > Did Nikon mention it somewhere... or is this just a wonderful bit of
> > Internet wisdom? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > > > Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with this
> > > > image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it does?

It was actually a known flaw in the software, Nikon was trying hard 
to ignore it. About 2 years ago another list member (I believe Ernst 
Dinkle?) circulated a petition politely requesting they clean up 
their act; I guess if it's no longer neccessay with the 9000 they 
finally did something about it.

Steve Karafyllakis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Graham" 
<gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> This supposedly was important with the 8000 and is not necessary 
with the 9000.
> 
> Haven't tried it though.
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon" 
<westsidemaurice@y...> 
> wrote:
> > Thanks Steve..
> > 
> > It's "often suggested" but I never really believed it was 
true... I
> > thought I was off into urban-scanning-mythologyland...
> > 
> > Did Nikon mention it somewhere... or is this just a wonderful 
bit of
> > Internet wisdom? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > > > Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with 
this
> > > > image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it 
does?

I've just tested Vuescan with some suggested settings...very
good...better than Nikon neg>neg>pos....somehow sharper as well as
perhaps better tonally...maybe the inversion loses something Vs
original TIFFs?

Interesting about the old news :-)


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:

> It was actually a known flaw in the software, Nikon was trying hard 
> to ignore it. About 2 years ago another list member (I believe Ernst 
> Dinkle?) circulated a petition politely requesting they clean up 
> their act; I guess if it's no longer neccessay with the 9000 they 
> finally did something about it.
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Graham" 
> <gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> > This supposedly was important with the 8000 and is not necessary 
> with the 9000.
> > 
> > Haven't tried it though.
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon" 
> <westsidemaurice@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks Steve..
> > > 
> > > It's "often suggested" but I never really believed it was 
> true... I
> > > thought I was off into urban-scanning-mythologyland...
> > > 
> > > Did Nikon mention it somewhere... or is this just a wonderful 
> bit of
> > > Internet wisdom? 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with 
> this
> > > > > image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it 
> does?

I've just tested Vuescan with some suggested settings...very
good...better than Nikon neg>neg>pos....somehow sharper as well as
perhaps better tonally...maybe the inversion loses something Vs
original TIFFs?

Interesting about the old news :-)


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:

> It was actually a known flaw in the software, Nikon was trying hard 
> to ignore it. About 2 years ago another list member (I believe Ernst 
> Dinkle?) circulated a petition politely requesting they clean up 
> their act; I guess if it's no longer neccessay with the 9000 they 
> finally did something about it.
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Graham" 
> <gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> > This supposedly was important with the 8000 and is not necessary 
> with the 9000.
> > 
> > Haven't tried it though.
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon" 
> <westsidemaurice@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks Steve..
> > > 
> > > It's "often suggested" but I never really believed it was 
> true... I
> > > thought I was off into urban-scanning-mythologyland...
> > > 
> > > Did Nikon mention it somewhere... or is this just a wonderful 
> bit of
> > > Internet wisdom? 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Scanning B&W negs as pos is often suggested... helps with 
> this
> > > > > image...any idea WHY this works, if in your experience it 
> does?