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Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-04 by Bernie Ess

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "culturalvisions" <frank@...>

> I have two major complaints about scans of my b&w and color
> negs.
>
> 1.  They look grainier than silver or color chemical prints of the
> same.  GEM helps improve this at the cost of very long scan
> times.  I've read that this grainy appearance is called "grain
> aliasing" and is aparent in most prosumer scanners.

Frank,
there has been a complaint about the grain problem - think it was on the
film scanners list - from a guy who is using the Polaroid 120 - same problem
apparently. I see 2 ways to get around this:
- buy a more expensive scanner, maybe the Imacon photo (too much for me)
- take care to shoot only very fine grain film (slower than 100) and be
careful to use chemicals that don\ufffdt emphathize the grain.

I had made a scan of a photo I   thought was good by a service, but was
dissappointed by the amount of very visible grain in the scan. Don\ufffdt know
what scanner they use, but the problem seems to be there.

But as I shoot mainly b&w, this problem leaves me worried, although others
don\ufffdt consider it as bad.

Greetings Bernhard

Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-04 by Bernie Ess

Adam,
its good to hear other voices too, if you wonder whether there is grain,
there is probably none, because it is easy to see. The person I have
mentioned has posted a fraction of a photo to show what he means:
http://www.spirer.com/images/grain.jpg.

My own experiences with 35mm at 2900dpi vary from "salt and pepper look"
(Delta 100 in Rodinal) to virtually no grain, even at 11x14 not visible
(efke 25 film in A149 processor).

However I can affirm the tendency that the photos that show grain are
exclusively negatives  (monochromes and color) - the slides are perfect!

Bernhard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mahesi Caplan-Faust" <caplan@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro


I really don't get it. I am looking at my results from the Minolta scanner
in B&W from agfa 100  fb4 hp5. There is no discernable grain on my 10x8's.
Maybe it is that most are off 6x7 negs but even my 35mm's look good. I
should add I use the Piezo inkset and the Cone driver overrides the Epson
giving me beautiful continuous tones. How to distinguish grain from the the
dot pattern the printer lays down. Excuse me if it is a stupid question. I
am looking at a 35mm print under a loupe and really there is almost a
complete absence of grain!

Adam

RE: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-05 by Mahesi Caplan-Faust

I really don't get it. I am looking at my results from the Minolta scanner
in B&W from agfa 100  fb4 hp5. There is no discernable grain on my 10x8's.
Maybe it is that most are off 6x7 negs but even my 35mm's look good. I
should add I use the Piezo inkset and the Cone driver overrides the Epson
giving me beautiful continuous tones. How to distinguish grain from the the
dot pattern the printer lays down. Excuse me if it is a stupid question. I
am looking at a 35mm print under a loupe and really there is almost a
complete absence of grain!

Adam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Bernie Ess [mailto:albatros.bee@...]
  Sent: 04 December 2001 17:00
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "culturalvisions" <frank@...>

  > I have two major complaints about scans of my b&w and color
  > negs.
  >
  > 1.  They look grainier than silver or color chemical prints of the
  > same.  GEM helps improve this at the cost of very long scan
  > times.  I've read that this grainy appearance is called "grain
  > aliasing" and is aparent in most prosumer scanners.

  Frank,
  there has been a complaint about the grain problem - think it was on the
  film scanners list - from a guy who is using the Polaroid 120 - same
problem
  apparently. I see 2 ways to get around this:
  - buy a more expensive scanner, maybe the Imacon photo (too much for me)
  - take care to shoot only very fine grain film (slower than 100) and be
  careful to use chemicals that don´t emphathize the grain.

  I had made a scan of a photo I   thought was good by a service, but was
  dissappointed by the amount of very visible grain in the scan. Don´t know
  what scanner they use, but the problem seems to be there.

  But as I shoot mainly b&w, this problem leaves me worried, although others
  don´t consider it as bad.

  Greetings Bernhard




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Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-05 by Moreno Polloni

> I have two major complaints about scans of my b&w and color
> negs.
>
> 1.  They look grainier than silver or color chemical prints of the
> same.  GEM helps improve this at the cost of very long scan
> times.  I've read that this grainy appearance is called "grain
> aliasing" and is aparent in most prosumer scanners.

A friend of mine has been evaluating and comparing the Minolta to the Nikon
8000 (he sells scanners). Initial comments are that the sharpness of the
Minolta is good, but the scans have a very pronounced graininess, especially
compared to the 8000.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-05 by Jerry Olson

With piezo, you shouldn't have ANY dot pattern, no matter what printer
you are using.

Jerry





Mahesi Caplan-Faust wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> I really don't get it. I am looking at my results from the Minolta scanner
> in B&W from agfa 100  fb4 hp5. There is no discernable grain on my 10x8's.
> Maybe it is that most are off 6x7 negs but even my 35mm's look good. I
> should add I use the Piezo inkset and the Cone driver overrides the Epson
> giving me beautiful continuous tones. How to distinguish grain from the the
> dot pattern the printer lays down. Excuse me if it is a stupid question. I
> am looking at a 35mm print under a loupe and really there is almost a
> complete absence of grain!
> 
> Adam
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Bernie Ess [mailto:albatros.bee@...]
>   Sent: 04 December 2001 17:00
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "culturalvisions" <frank@...>
> 
>   > I have two major complaints about scans of my b&w and color
>   > negs.
>   >
>   > 1.  They look grainier than silver or color chemical prints of the
>   > same.  GEM helps improve this at the cost of very long scan
>   > times.  I've read that this grainy appearance is called "grain
>   > aliasing" and is aparent in most prosumer scanners.
> 
>   Frank,
>   there has been a complaint about the grain problem - think it was on the
>   film scanners list - from a guy who is using the Polaroid 120 - same
> problem
>   apparently. I see 2 ways to get around this:
>   - buy a more expensive scanner, maybe the Imacon photo (too much for me)
>   - take care to shoot only very fine grain film (slower than 100) and be
>   careful to use chemicals that don\ufffdt emphathize the grain.
> 
>   I had made a scan of a photo I   thought was good by a service, but was
>   dissappointed by the amount of very visible grain in the scan. Don\ufffdt know
>   what scanner they use, but the problem seems to be there.
> 
>   But as I shoot mainly b&w, this problem leaves me worried, although others
>   don\ufffdt consider it as bad.
> 
>   Greetings Bernhard
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 24/11/01
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> 
> 
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[Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-06 by david_nancy_bogart

I am new to this forum and am glad I have found an audience for 
my concerns with my newly acquired Scan Multi Pro. . . . namely 
the grainy look in color negatives. I agree it does transparencies 
very well.

I did a scan of a 2 1/4 Reala neg with 50 GEM and still got this 
grainy look. A friend has posted a 2% slice of a golf course 
picture shot just after sunrise on an October morning. Here is 
the URL;

http://members.rogers.com/dale-cotton/Photos/DHarrisCrop.jpg

You can see the 'peppery' look  especially in the sky. I'm not so 
sure it is film grain, or maybe it was originally and the scanning 
process has accentuated it. Remember you are looking at only a 
2% slice of the total scan so it seems flat and hazy. But this 
scene is equivalent to about a 2000mm lens

'Grain' and the scanning times are my only issues. The colors 
and shadow detail are great and unlike what I had heard, color 
negs are easy to 'get right' . When I make a 13x19 inkjet of an 
image it seems sharper than a chemical print from the same 
negative but unfortunately this sort of  'peppery' look is apparent. 

Anyway, if there are any insights they would be appreciated.

David

[Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-07 by culturalvisions

Yep, That golf course sky is also the grainy look I get with my 
Minolta Multi Pro.   I will be scanning my same problem negs on 
a Nikon 8000 next week.  Maybe I'll see more of the same.  Frank

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "david_nancy_bogart" 
<david.g.harris@r...> wrote:
> I am new to this forum and am glad I have found an audience 
for 
> my concerns with my newly acquired Scan Multi Pro. . . . 
namely 
> the grainy look in color negatives. I agree it does 
transparencies 
> very well.
> 
> I did a scan of a 2 1/4 Reala neg with 50 GEM and still got this 
> grainy look. A friend has posted a 2% slice of a golf course 
> picture shot just after sunrise on an October morning. Here is 
> the URL;
> 
> 
http://members.rogers.com/dale-cotton/Photos/DHarrisCrop.jpg
> 
> You can see the 'peppery' look  especially in the sky. I'm not so 
> sure it is film grain, or maybe it was originally and the scanning 
> process has accentuated it. Remember you are looking at only 
a 
> 2% slice of the total scan so it seems flat and hazy. But this 
> scene is equivalent to about a 2000mm lens
> 
> 'Grain' and the scanning times are my only issues. The colors 
> and shadow detail are great and unlike what I had heard, color 
> negs are easy to 'get right' . When I make a 13x19 inkjet of an 
> image it seems sharper than a chemical print from the same 
> negative but unfortunately this sort of  'peppery' look is 
apparent. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Anyway, if there are any insights they would be appreciated.
> 
> David

Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-07 by Martin Wesley

Frank, David,

If you would like a comparison scan of one of your negs on a Polaroid 120
let me know off list and I will be happy to run one for you. I have not seen
anything like the pattern in the sky portion of that negative.

Martin Wesley

----- Original Message -----
From: "culturalvisions" <frank@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro


> Yep, That golf course sky is also the grainy look I get with my
> Minolta Multi Pro.   I will be scanning my same problem negs on
> a Nikon 8000 next week.  Maybe I'll see more of the same.  Frank
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "david_nancy_bogart"
> <david.g.harris@r...> wrote:
> > I am new to this forum and am glad I have found an audience
> for
> > my concerns with my newly acquired Scan Multi Pro. . . .
> namely
> > the grainy look in color negatives. I agree it does
> transparencies
> > very well.
> >
> > I did a scan of a 2 1/4 Reala neg with 50 GEM and still got this
> > grainy look. A friend has posted a 2% slice of a golf course
> > picture shot just after sunrise on an October morning. Here is
> > the URL;
> >
> >
> http://members.rogers.com/dale-cotton/Photos/DHarrisCrop.jpg
> >
> > You can see the 'peppery' look  especially in the sky. I'm not so
> > sure it is film grain, or maybe it was originally and the scanning
> > process has accentuated it. Remember you are looking at only
> a
> > 2% slice of the total scan so it seems flat and hazy. But this
> > scene is equivalent to about a 2000mm lens
> >
> > 'Grain' and the scanning times are my only issues. The colors
> > and shadow detail are great and unlike what I had heard, color
> > negs are easy to 'get right' . When I make a 13x19 inkjet of an
> > image it seems sharper than a chemical print from the same
> > negative but unfortunately this sort of  'peppery' look is
> apparent.
> >
> > Anyway, if there are any insights they would be appreciated.
> >
> > David
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-07 by david_nancy_bogart

Martin,

Thanks for your kind offer.I have a dealer here in Toronto with all 
three of the competing scanners plus the junior Imacon. I am 
going to spend a day there next week and organize a 'Scan Off".

I will report back.

David

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Frank, David,
> 
> If you would like a comparison scan of one of your negs on a 
Polaroid 120
> let me know off list and I will be happy to run one for you. I have 
not seen
> anything like the pattern in the sky portion of that negative.
> 
> Martin Wesley
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "culturalvisions" <frank@c...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:25 AM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro
> 
> 
> > Yep, That golf course sky is also the grainy look I get with my
> > Minolta Multi Pro.   I will be scanning my same problem negs 
on
> > a Nikon 8000 next week.  Maybe I'll see more of the same.  
Frank
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., 
"david_nancy_bogart"
> > <david.g.harris@r...> wrote:
> > > I am new to this forum and am glad I have found an 
audience
> > for
> > > my concerns with my newly acquired Scan Multi Pro. . . .
> > namely
> > > the grainy look in color negatives. I agree it does
> > transparencies
> > > very well.
> > >
> > > I did a scan of a 2 1/4 Reala neg with 50 GEM and still got 
this
> > > grainy look. A friend has posted a 2% slice of a golf course
> > > picture shot just after sunrise on an October morning. Here 
is
> > > the URL;
> > >
> > >
> > 
http://members.rogers.com/dale-cotton/Photos/DHarrisCrop.jpg
> > >
> > > You can see the 'peppery' look  especially in the sky. I'm not 
so
> > > sure it is film grain, or maybe it was originally and the 
scanning
> > > process has accentuated it. Remember you are looking at 
only
> > a
> > > 2% slice of the total scan so it seems flat and hazy. But this
> > > scene is equivalent to about a 2000mm lens
> > >
> > > 'Grain' and the scanning times are my only issues. The 
colors
> > > and shadow detail are great and unlike what I had heard, 
color
> > > negs are easy to 'get right' . When I make a 13x19 inkjet of 
an
> > > image it seems sharper than a chemical print from the 
same
> > > negative but unfortunately this sort of  'peppery' look is
> > apparent.
> > >
> > > Anyway, if there are any insights they would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > David
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives 
and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >
> >
> >

Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-07 by Martin Wesley

David,

Please let us know how that turns out! 

Martin
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: david_nancy_bogart 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:38 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro


  Martin,

  Thanks for your kind offer.I have a dealer here in Toronto with all 
  three of the competing scanners plus the junior Imacon. I am 
  going to spend a day there next week and organize a 'Scan Off".

  I will report back.

  (snip)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Minolta multi pro B&W Scans-Grain Solution?

2001-12-08 by jlerager

Hi, all,

As for scanning B&W with the Multi-Pro, and grain issues, I have 
a few suggestions that seem to be working for me. 

I'm finding that I'm getting "better" (cleaner & less grainy look) 
when I scan my B&W silver negs (Ilford HP-5 & FP4) as color 
negs.

Yes, you heard me right - I'm scanning them using the color neg 
setting!

I then go to channels, and select either the red or green channel, 
then convert to gray scale (the red channel seems to give a little 
more contrast than the green; depends on what I want in the 
result). 

If I compare a B&W scans of the same B&W silver-film image 
using thecolor neg setting with a scan using the Minolta B&W 
setting, at 100% view in PS, I see a remarkable difference. The 
scan using the B&W setting looks like it was partially solarized; 
the scan from the color neg setting looks clean and "normal."

Also, Ed Hamrick has adapted Vuescan for the Multi Pro (version 
7.2.12). In order to use Vuescan with the Minolta Multi Pro on a 
Mac, however, you have to remove all Minolta extensions from 
the Mac System/Extensions folder. The trick here is that Minolta's 
extensions are not labeled "Minolta," and there are 6 Minolta 
extensions installed. Their labels? Thought you'd never ask!

MCM Library DS
MFSBaseLib2887
MFSFWDriver
MFSFWExpLoader
MFSFWFamily
MFSLib2887

The Vuescan B&W scan (and I use the Ilford film setting for XP2 - 
for my HP-5 and FP - 4; this is what works for me: the Kodak 
TMax settings Vuescan offers don't work for me) looks virtually 
identical to the Minolta software scan using the color neg setting, 
and can exactly match it with a little help from levels and curves.

I haven't tried scanning using the color slide setting, then 
inverting, then select channel and convert to grayscale. Perhaps 
someone else can check this out and report to the group!

Cheers,
James Lerager





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "culturalvisions" 
<frank@c...> wrote:
> Yep, That golf course sky is also the grainy look I get with my 
> Minolta Multi Pro.   I will be scanning my same problem negs 
on 
> a Nikon 8000 next week.  Maybe I'll see more of the same.  
Frank
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "david_nancy_bogart" 
> <david.g.harris@r...> wrote:
> > I am new to this forum and am glad I have found an audience 
> for 
> > my concerns with my newly acquired Scan Multi Pro. . . . 
> namely 
> > the grainy look in color negatives. I agree it does 
> transparencies 
> > very well.
> > 
> > I did a scan of a 2 1/4 Reala neg with 50 GEM and still got 
this 
> > grainy look. A friend has posted a 2% slice of a golf course 
> > picture shot just after sunrise on an October morning. Here 
is 
> > the URL;
> > 
> > 
> 
http://members.rogers.com/dale-cotton/Photos/DHarrisCrop.jpg
> > 
> > You can see the 'peppery' look  especially in the sky. I'm not 
so 
> > sure it is film grain, or maybe it was originally and the 
scanning 
> > process has accentuated it. Remember you are looking at 
only 
> a 
> > 2% slice of the total scan so it seems flat and hazy. But this 
> > scene is equivalent to about a 2000mm lens
> > 
> > 'Grain' and the scanning times are my only issues. The 
colors 
> > and shadow detail are great and unlike what I had heard, 
color 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > negs are easy to 'get right' . When I make a 13x19 inkjet of an 
> > image it seems sharper than a chemical print from the same 
> > negative but unfortunately this sort of  'peppery' look is 
> apparent. 
> > 
> > Anyway, if there are any insights they would be appreciated.
> > 
> > David

RE: [Digital BW] Minolta multi pro B&W Scans-Grain Solution?

2001-12-08 by Austin Franklin

Hi James,

> I'm finding that I'm getting "better" (cleaner & less grainy look)
> when I scan my B&W silver negs (Ilford HP-5 & FP4) as color
> negs.

That makes perfect sense, since scanning in color will typically make for
softer scans, and therefore will take the "edge" off the grain, smooth it
out...  What developer are you using?  Might I suggest D-76 1:1?

> (the red channel seems to give a little
> more contrast than the green;

That doesn't make sense.  The red channel is inherently the fuzziest, as
well as the green has inherently the best contrast...typically.  Green is
also the sharpest...

> The
> scan using the B&W setting looks like it was partially solarized;
> the scan from the color neg setting looks clean and "normal."

That certainly could be part and parcel of the software...  Remember, no
matter WHAT you select, B&W or color, the scanner will scan EXACTLY the
same, it will scan IN RGB, and convert to B&W using its own mix, if you have
selected a B&W output...

Regards,

Austin

Re: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-08 by Todd Flashner

I was just looking at this tutorial and thought it might be useful for the
grainy Minolta scans. I haven't tried it, so who knows...

It won't help the scanner but it may help the scans. The latter part of the
tutorial, which discusses the channel mixer may be of particular help. The
grain in that color scan to my eye looks rough because it seems to be
lacking in dyes clouds from any colors other than blue. Color films
typically have colorful grain, even in monochromatic areas, but that scan
did not. I think the extra colors tend to soften the harshness of the edges
of grain such as that, where you have a clump, then white space.

Anyway, never done it so....

http://www.rgbnet.co.uk/ilyons/multiscan/multiscan1.htm

Todd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I am new to this forum and am glad I have found an audience for
> my concerns with my newly acquired Scan Multi Pro. . . . namely
> the grainy look in color negatives. I agree it does transparencies
> very well.
> 
> I did a scan of a 2 1/4 Reala neg with 50 GEM and still got this
> grainy look. A friend has posted a 2% slice of a golf course
> picture shot just after sunrise on an October morning. Here is
> the URL;
> 
> http://members.rogers.com/dale-cotton/Photos/DHarrisCrop.jpg
> 
> You can see the 'peppery' look  especially in the sky. I'm not so
> sure it is film grain, or maybe it was originally and the scanning
> process has accentuated it. Remember you are looking at only a
> 2% slice of the total scan so it seems flat and hazy. But this
> scene is equivalent to about a 2000mm lens
> 
> 'Grain' and the scanning times are my only issues. The colors
> and shadow detail are great and unlike what I had heard, color
> negs are easy to 'get right' . When I make a 13x19 inkjet of an
> image it seems sharper than a chemical print from the same
> negative but unfortunately this sort of  'peppery' look is apparent.
> 
> Anyway, if there are any insights they would be appreciated.
> 
> David

Re: [Digital BW] Minolta multi pro B&W Scans-Grain Solution?

2001-12-08 by jlerager

Hi, Austin,

Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. 

A couple of questions re: red, green, blue channels. 

1. I've been thinking that the blue channel is the "least sharp," or 
can introduce the most unsharpness into photography, not the 
red, because of the nature of blue light and what happens 
especially with telephoto optics - unless low-dispersion glass is 
incorporated in the lens design. I also thought that this had been 
discussed earlier on the Piezo and Digital B&W groups, and I 
thought I had understood that the blue channel was least 
desirable (am I mistaken?).

2. When I look at the histograms individually for the red, green, 
blue channels from a B&W negative scanned as a color negative 
on the Multi Pro, the histogram for the red channel seems to 
have the highest "spike" in its curve, higher than either the green 
channel or blue channel. This is what led me to consider that the 
red channel, on the Multi Pro, may be giving the most contrast - 
more than the green (which in turn seems to provide  more 
seeming "contrast" than the blue channel). Of course, this could 
also mean the red channel is providing more data in particular 
regions of the scan, and that this is not an indicator or measure 
of contrast at all.

3. What is the basis for the red channel being "fuzzier" and "less 
sharp" than the green? I certainly am happy to use the green 
channel: I'd just like to have a little more theoretical and practical 
information why.

4. What do you know about Vuescan, in terms of how it 
translates the raw scan data into a 16 bit B&W output: does Ed 
Hamrick just select for a single channel? If so, is it the green 
channel? (Perhaps I should ask him directly; just thought you 
might know. Vuescan does list support for Leafscan; do you use 
Vuescan sometimes?)

As for film developer, I have used FG-7 with sulfite at 1 to 15 
most of the time for the past 15 years (I also use Ilfotec when I 
want/need to push HP-5). This is a compensating developer. It 
has worked very well for me (or at least it did in the chemical 
darkroom). I may switch to a more straight line developer, as I've 
largely abandoned the chemical darkroom in favor of Piezo now. 
Most of my work is editorial and documentary (social, political, 
environmental). I exhibit my documentary work fairly widely (30+ 
solo shows to date).

Best regards,
James


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Austin Franklin" 
<darkroom@i...> wrote:
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> > I'm finding that I'm getting "better" (cleaner & less grainy look)
> > when I scan my B&W silver negs (Ilford HP-5 & FP4) as color
> > negs.
> 
> That makes perfect sense, since scanning in color will typically 
make for
> softer scans, and therefore will take the "edge" off the grain, 
smooth it
> out...  What developer are you using?  Might I suggest D-76 
1:1?
> 
> > (the red channel seems to give a little
> > more contrast than the green;
> 
> That doesn't make sense.  The red channel is inherently the 
fuzziest, as
> well as the green has inherently the best contrast...typically.  
Green is
> also the sharpest...
> 
> > The
> > scan using the B&W setting looks like it was partially 
solarized;
> > the scan from the color neg setting looks clean and "normal."
> 
> That certainly could be part and parcel of the software...  
Remember, no
> matter WHAT you select, B&W or color, the scanner will scan 
EXACTLY the
> same, it will scan IN RGB, and convert to B&W using its own 
mix, if you have
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> selected a B&W output...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Austin

Re: review of the Minolti multi pro

2001-12-08 by culturalvisions

A big scan boxing match may not prove conclusive.  There are 
tremendous learning curve issues and software concerns that also come 
into play.  I called my Nikon 8000 friend to do a face off and she 
said she sent her 8000 back to Nikon because it ate her film.  I guess 
Minolta wins the first round on that one.

Frank

http://www.culturalvisions.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> David,
> 
> Please let us know how that turns out! 
> 
> Martin
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: david_nancy_bogart 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y... 
>   Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:38 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: review of the Minolti multi pro
> 
> 
>   Martin,
> 
>   Thanks for your kind offer.I have a dealer here in Toronto with 
all 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>   three of the competing scanners plus the junior Imacon. I am 
>   going to spend a day there next week and organize a 'Scan Off".
> 
>   I will report back.
> 
>   (snip)
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been re

RE: [Digital BW] Minolta multi pro B&W Scans-Grain Solution?

2001-12-09 by Austin Franklin

Hi James,

> Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply.

You're welcome.

> I
> thought I had understood that the blue channel was least
> desirable (am I mistaken?).

Well, red is the channel that has the most smear and bloom.

> 3. What is the basis for the red channel being "fuzzier" and "less
> sharp" than the green?

CCDs are obviously sensitive to light.  They react to different wavelengths
of light differently...and red is the highest energy of all the three
channels, which makes is susceptible to bloom, which is basically it
provides too much signal to the CCD (which is shown in your histogram, that
red has the most "energy").  And since it has such high energy, it also
smears...which means it "bleeds" into the adjacent sensors.

> 4. What do you know about Vuescan, in terms of how it
> translates the raw scan data into a 16 bit B&W output: does Ed
> Hamrick just select for a single channel?

I don't know at all.  I'd suggest contacting him.

> I exhibit my documentary work fairly widely (30+
> solo shows to date).

Excellent!  Let me know if you have one in the Boston area, I'd love to see
it.

Regards,

Austin

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