For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-13 by Jerry in Houston
Came across this while surfing some photo sites .... nice piece http://www.sfmoma.org/adams/content_web.html Jerry in Houston
Thread
For You Ansel Adams Fans
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-13 by Steve Kale
Jerry - thanks for this. The bit I found the most interesting was the amount of manipulation that went into the Moonrise print. The difference between the contact print and final product was quite staggering. Steve
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> From: Jerry in Houston <glewis4457@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:43:12 -0700 (PDT) > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans > > Came across this while surfing some photo sites .... > nice piece > > http://www.sfmoma.org/adams/content_web.html > > Jerry in Houston
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-13 by Gary Brown
The nerve of this Adams guy he copied my idea, actually his image was shot before I was born and I was definitely thinking about him when I captured it. Look at: www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown/image/40345663 Gary
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans Jerry - thanks for this. The bit I found the most interesting was the amount of manipulation that went into the Moonrise print. The difference between the contact print and final product was quite staggering. Steve > From: Jerry in Houston <glewis4457@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:43:12 -0700 (PDT) > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans > > Came across this while surfing some photo sites .... > nice piece > > http://www.sfmoma.org/adams/content_web.html > > Jerry in Houston Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-14 by Johnny Eades
This was the skill and genius of Ansel. He saw the finished print before making the exposure. Knowing his technique to the degree that he could do that is his legacy to the photographic community. Making it second nature prepared him for almost any scene encountered. Now I know some will jump on me about that statement, but it's a gift to be able to envision the finished print and know how to take the existing image as captured and turn it into the finished print with reproducable abilities time after time. The majority of that Zone System can be applied to our digital efforts as well as to film. The steps may differ, but they will lead us to the finished print in a more predictable manner than point and shoot and then rely on either darkroom efforts or computer software efforts to create the print. This is only one method we can use, but FOR ME, it is my PERSONAL choice. Your friend in Photography, Johnny --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > Jerry - thanks for this. The bit I found the most interesting was the > amount of manipulation that went into the Moonrise print. The difference
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> between the contact print and final product was quite staggering. > > Steve > > > > From: Jerry in Houston <glewis4457@y...> > > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:43:12 -0700 (PDT) > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans > > > > Came across this while surfing some photo sites .... > > nice piece > > > > http://www.sfmoma.org/adams/content_web.html > > > > Jerry in Houston
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-14 by Steve Kale
I'd go one step further. Not only did he have vision as to the final image but he had an enormous understanding of the technical requirements of his chosen mode of expression. Witness the interview when he talks about having to calculate the exposure for that capture. One must not only have a flair or taste for what is a good image - a critic has these qualities. One must also have a true understanding of the technical requirements and limitations involved in bringing that vision to reality. As he stressed repeatedly, skill at both is required of a good photographer.
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> From: Johnny Eades <jeades1@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:58:15 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans > > This was the skill and genius of Ansel. He saw the finished print > before making the exposure. Knowing his technique to the degree that > he could do that is his legacy to the photographic community. Making > it second nature prepared him for almost any scene encountered. Now I > know some will jump on me about that statement, but it's a gift to be > able to envision the finished print and know how to take the existing > image as captured and turn it into the finished print with > reproducable abilities time after time. The majority of that Zone > System can be applied to our digital efforts as well as to film. The > steps may differ, but they will lead us to the finished print in a > more predictable manner than point and shoot and then rely on either > darkroom efforts or computer software efforts to create the print. > This is only one method we can use, but FOR ME, it is my PERSONAL > choice. > > Your friend in Photography, > > Johnny
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by Djon
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > I'd go one step further. Not only did he have vision as to the final image > but he had an enormous understanding of the technical requirements of his > chosen mode of expression. Witness the interview when he talks about having > to calculate the exposure for that capture. One must not only have a flair > or taste for what is a good image - a critic has these qualities. Not quite. Critics can be valuable but they are analysts and talkers, not doers. Ansel's "calculations" are traditional process, organized and refined by him with Minor White (co-creator of "Zone System" and IMO better photographer and teacher from important perspectives)... not to mention other people who used and mentored the same techniques without popularising them. One must > also have a true understanding of the technical requirements and limitations > involved in bringing that vision to reality. As he stressed repeatedly, > skill at both is required of a good photographer. Not true at all. Ansel learned, helped organize, and taught *a possible approach to a narrow range of photography.* There are/were many other "good photographers" (his equals) who didn't/don't: people like Henri Cartier Bresson, Joseph Muench, Irving Penn, Richard Avedon and, more recently, Sebastio Salgado...obvious examples. Ansel was important as a teacher within one narrow genre, as important for his support of the Sierra Club and its members enthusiasm for the Sierra Nevada Mts and environmentalism generally. He was very analytic, lacking broad interests and emotional complexity IMO. He didn't appreciate the excitement of his home town in his youth (San Francisco), the greatest music of his own youth (jazz), never explored color photography to anything like the depth of his peers. He was a fine portrait photographer (IMO should have done more) and did good industrial work. He was very successful selling prints and reproduction rights, from the early Sixties (eg "Half Dome" Hills Brothers 5# coffee cans that seemed to grow marijuana seedlings in every kitchen window in Northern California). >
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by Mark Savoia
What does any of this have to do with DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint ? I thought this e-group was about digital printmaking not the history of photography? Mark On Jun 15, 2005, at 8:49 AM, Djon wrote: > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale > <stevekale@b...> wrote: > > I'd go one step further. Not only did he have vision as to the > final image > > but he had an enormous understanding of the technical requirements > of his > > chosen mode of expression. Witness the interview when he talks > about having > > to calculate the exposure for that capture. One must not only > have a flair > > or taste for what is a good image - a critic has these qualities. > > Not quite. Critics can be valuable but they are analysts and > talkers, not doers. > > Ansel's "calculations" are traditional process, organized and > refined by him with Minor White (co-creator of "Zone System" and IMO > better photographer and teacher from important perspectives)... not > to mention other people who used and mentored the same techniques > without popularising them. > > One must > > also have a true understanding of the technical requirements and > limitations > > involved in bringing that vision to reality. As he stressed > repeatedly, > > skill at both is required of a good photographer. > > Not true at all. > > Ansel learned, helped organize, and taught *a possible approach to a > narrow range of photography.* There are/were many other "good > photographers" (his equals) who didn't/don't: people like Henri > Cartier Bresson, Joseph Muench, Irving Penn, Richard Avedon and, > more recently, Sebastio Salgado...obvious examples. > > Ansel was important as a teacher within one narrow genre, as > important for his support of the Sierra Club and its members > enthusiasm for the Sierra Nevada Mts and environmentalism generally. > > He was very analytic, lacking broad interests and emotional > complexity IMO. He didn't appreciate the excitement of his home town > in his youth (San Francisco), the greatest music of his own youth > (jazz), never explored color photography to anything like the depth > of his peers. > > He was a fine portrait photographer (IMO should have done more) and > did good industrial work. He was very successful selling prints and > reproduction rights, from the early Sixties (eg "Half Dome" Hills > Brothers 5# coffee cans that seemed to grow marijuana seedlings in > every kitchen window in Northern California). > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed > from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the > group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� > in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE > �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by Steve Kale
Mark LOL. How could you be so naïve? This list is 80% about debating ad nausea a limited number of topics: film vs digital, matte vs photo paper, fine art vs all the rest, whether technical knowledge is necessary, whether the old guys would like today's technology and processes, from time to time Mac vs PC... Have I left much out? Probably not. ;-) Personally I don't give a rat's arse about Ansel's work (or that of any other photographer and I certainly don't care about their upbringings or other personal interests) except for the point that I think he exhibited an underlying discipline and technical knowledge that allowed him to achieve on paper what he had in his mind's eye. (Flick through the images in Ansel Adams at a Hundred and you realise that he was severely encumbered by the technical and mechanical limitations of his day.) This list is meant to be about, I think, using digital technologies to make prints. That is, it is about technology, materials and technique. I don't care if you take "good" pictures, "bad" pictures, whether they are deemed "fine art" or personal scrapbook work. (Although I would be curious as to what percentage of people on this list actually make a living - not in retirement - from selling their prints. It would be very interesting to have a look at the demographics of this group given it is quite clearly global and has a huge following.F or example, how many just do B&W? How many are hobbyists vs professionals, printers vs photographers etc etc. I don't know if it is possible to do some sort of electronic survey...) People come here to learn about digital printing techniques, because they want to do better at realising whatever it is they have/had in their mind's eye. By its very nature it is the technical end of the sport. The ONLY pervasive lesson to be learnt from Ansel in this regard was his discipline to learning and applying the technical end of photography - his rigour in understanding the materials and equipment he worked with to take his pre-visualised image through the camera and storage medium (in his case film) to the final print. It doesn't matter who you are, what you like or what form of photography you do, either way you can learn this lesson from Ansel. That's not to say that the original post which pointed us to some interesting stuff was off-the-mark. It is always useful to be pointed to interesting material - even if the curator comments had to have been the biggest load of waffle I had heard in a long time. Steve
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> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:56:18 -0400 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans > > What does any of this have to do with DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint ? > I thought this e-group was about digital printmaking not the history > of photography? > Mark > > On Jun 15, 2005, at 8:49 AM, Djon wrote: > >> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale >> <stevekale@b...> wrote: >>> I'd go one step further. Not only did he have vision as to the >> final image >>> but he had an enormous understanding of the technical requirements >> of his >>> chosen mode of expression. Witness the interview when he talks >> about having >>> to calculate the exposure for that capture. One must not only >> have a flair >>> or taste for what is a good image - a critic has these qualities. >> >> Not quite. Critics can be valuable but they are analysts and >> talkers, not doers. >> >> Ansel's "calculations" are traditional process, organized and >> refined by him with Minor White (co-creator of "Zone System" and IMO >> better photographer and teacher from important perspectives)... not >> to mention other people who used and mentored the same techniques >> without popularising them. >> >> One must >>> also have a true understanding of the technical requirements and >> limitations >>> involved in bringing that vision to reality. As he stressed >> repeatedly, >>> skill at both is required of a good photographer. >> >> Not true at all. >> >> Ansel learned, helped organize, and taught *a possible approach to a >> narrow range of photography.* There are/were many other "good >> photographers" (his equals) who didn't/don't: people like Henri >> Cartier Bresson, Joseph Muench, Irving Penn, Richard Avedon and, >> more recently, Sebastio Salgado...obvious examples. >> >> Ansel was important as a teacher within one narrow genre, as >> important for his support of the Sierra Club and its members >> enthusiasm for the Sierra Nevada Mts and environmentalism generally. >> >> He was very analytic, lacking broad interests and emotional >> complexity IMO. He didn't appreciate the excitement of his home town >> in his youth (San Francisco), the greatest music of his own youth >> (jazz), never explored color photography to anything like the depth >> of his peers. >> >> He was a fine portrait photographer (IMO should have done more) and >> did good industrial work. He was very successful selling prints and >> reproduction rights, from the early Sixties (eg "Half Dome" Hills >> Brothers 5# coffee cans that seemed to grow marijuana seedlings in >> every kitchen window in Northern California). >> >
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by Djon
Ansel's history is *obviously* fundamental to digital B&W inkjet printing. Ansel's work and teaching is a crucial reference point, even if, like me, one doesn't put him on a pedestal, alone. As a B&W printmaker he became expert in B&W scanning (drum scanning) in his last decade. This shouldn't be news...he wrote extensively about it. Ansel was a nerd, preoccupied with densitometry techniques for decades. This forum enjoys several Ansels-types :-) Printmaking involves visual intentions, which can (Ansel-like) directly follow from the making of the negative (or file). Arguably, nobody well-known has worked with this Group's printmaking process as obviously and thoroughly as Ansel did, even though he's long gone. Djon --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@c...> wrote: > What does any of this have to do with DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint ? > I thought this e-group was about digital printmaking not the history > of photography? > Mark
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by Walker Blackwell
Sometimes when it gets like this, I can say only one thing. Go take
more photographs. That's the one thing that Ansel did that we all
need to do more often, eh? ;-)
Better yet, do this. Combine Ansel Adams' zone system techniques
with raw (3f, negative, whatever) drum-scanning. Note this is
truncated and written on-the-fly.
Part One: (best with TMAX 100 because it's a thin film)
1.Start with your normal ASA and Development time.
2. Photograph gray card in direct sun Shoot five rolls of 120.
#1: Expose all you stops from under to over. Your middle
exposure should be around f8 or 11.
#2: Develop #1 roll normal, #2 roll -2 or -3, #3 roll +2 or +3.
Use roll #4 as you normal control (ie: develop it normally and view
it against #1 roll for inconsistencies) and keep #5 roll for backup.
3.Run your densities for ASA/development time combo to find optimal
ASA and dev time for +-0 (for traditional paper and darkroom that is.)
4. Re-do using found ASA and development time. Run densities to
validate + should normal scene for visual validation. (normal scene
is 4 stops between textured shadow and textured highlight)
6. Use your paper and developer combo to find exact exposure/
development time for a good print of normal scene. Do NOT dodge and
burn.
7. Use a drum-scanner and scan your film in raw (visual validation
shot from normal scene) (ie: as a negative with your histogram
completely out.) Keep image Untagged 16bit or 12bit RGB
8. Open file and tag with GG 1.8 or 2.2 or whatever is working for
you. Keep Grayscale 16bit
9. Invert in photoshop and use your controls for general histogram
correction (ie: curves etc). Do not mask.
10. Also scan in each negative from your validated roll of gray-card
photos. Line these up along the bottom of you image in Photoshop.
11. Print.
12. Look at print and visualize until it "matches" the tonalities of
the silver prints from the validated roll.
13. Run reflective densities using Eye1, etc.
14. Graph along-side transparency densities.
15. If the graph does not match curve-wise, re-do your curves in
photoshop or re-profile you scanner.
16. If the curves do match you have completed Part One.
Part Two: (for those who don't want to print silver anymore but still
should film.)
1. Re-do validation experiment but expose 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5. Expose a
gray-card and normal scene for each. That's 12 shots.
2. Develop +2 +1 0 -1 -2 (5 rolls.).
3. Scan in film and find the negative that takes the least amount of
tweaking with curves when scanned raw and inverted in photoshop.
4. Find the corresponding development times for the exposure and scan
the gray-card shots in. Line up under image and print.
5. Run reflective densities and graph.
6. Look at your graph against the other ones.
7. Now you have an ASA and Development time for your specific digital
work-flow. Yes indeed.Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by Walker Blackwell
ps: For specific 1/3 stop fine-tuning you can interpolate the graphs as long as they show up as curves and not mountain ranges. If they are jotty, then you've done something wrong and need to start over.
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On Jun 15, 2005, at 09:15 AM, Walker Blackwell wrote: > Sometimes when it gets like this, I can say only one thing. Go take > more photographs. That's the one thing that Ansel did that we all > need to do more often, eh? ;-) > > Better yet, do this. Combine Ansel Adams' zone system techniques > with raw (3f, negative, whatever) drum-scanning. Note this is > truncated and written on-the-fly. > > Part One: (best with TMAX 100 because it's a thin film) > 1.Start with your normal ASA and Development time. > 2. Photograph gray card in direct sun Shoot five rolls of 120. > #1: Expose all you stops from under to over. Your middle > exposure should be around f8 or 11. > #2: Develop #1 roll normal, #2 roll -2 or -3, #3 roll +2 or +3. > Use roll #4 as you normal control (ie: develop it normally and view > it against #1 roll for inconsistencies) and keep #5 roll for backup. > 3.Run your densities for ASA/development time combo to find optimal > ASA and dev time for +-0 (for traditional paper and darkroom that is.) > 4. Re-do using found ASA and development time. Run densities to > validate + should normal scene for visual validation. (normal scene > is 4 stops between textured shadow and textured highlight) > 6. Use your paper and developer combo to find exact exposure/ > development time for a good print of normal scene. Do NOT dodge and > burn. > 7. Use a drum-scanner and scan your film in raw (visual validation > shot from normal scene) (ie: as a negative with your histogram > completely out.) Keep image Untagged 16bit or 12bit RGB > 8. Open file and tag with GG 1.8 or 2.2 or whatever is working for > you. Keep Grayscale 16bit > 9. Invert in photoshop and use your controls for general histogram > correction (ie: curves etc). Do not mask. > 10. Also scan in each negative from your validated roll of gray-card > photos. Line these up along the bottom of you image in Photoshop. > 11. Print. > 12. Look at print and visualize until it "matches" the tonalities of > the silver prints from the validated roll. > 13. Run reflective densities using Eye1, etc. > 14. Graph along-side transparency densities. > 15. If the graph does not match curve-wise, re-do your curves in > photoshop or re-profile you scanner. > 16. If the curves do match you have completed Part One. > > Part Two: (for those who don't want to print silver anymore but still > should film.) > 1. Re-do validation experiment but expose 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5. Expose a > gray-card and normal scene for each. That's 12 shots. > 2. Develop +2 +1 0 -1 -2 (5 rolls.). > 3. Scan in film and find the negative that takes the least amount of > tweaking with curves when scanned raw and inverted in photoshop. > 4. Find the corresponding development times for the exposure and scan > the gray-card shots in. Line up under image and print. > 5. Run reflective densities and graph. > 6. Look at your graph against the other ones. > 7. Now you have an ASA and Development time for your specific digital > work-flow. Yes indeed. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/ucIolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed > from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the > group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” > in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE > “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by Brian Ellis
>organized and >refined by him with Minor White (co->creator of "Zone System" and IMO >better photographer and teacher from >important perspectives).. White wasn't a "co-creator" of the zone system. Adams and Fred Archer "created" the zone system in 1941-1942 as a teaching aide for their students. White didn't even learn the zone system much less participate in its "creation" until 1946 when he moved to California to teach under Adams.
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Djon" <westsidemaurice@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > I'd go one step further. Not only did he have vision as to the final image > but he had an enormous understanding of the technical requirements of his > chosen mode of expression. Witness the interview when he talks about having > to calculate the exposure for that capture. One must not only have a flair > or taste for what is a good image - a critic has these qualities. Not quite. Critics can be valuable but they are analysts and talkers, not doers. Ansel's "calculations" are traditional process, organized and refined by him with Minor White (co-creator of "Zone System" and IMO better photographer and teacher from important perspectives)... not to mention other people who used and mentored the same techniques without popularising them. One must > also have a true understanding of the technical requirements and limitations > involved in bringing that vision to reality. As he stressed repeatedly, > skill at both is required of a good photographer. Not true at all. Ansel learned, helped organize, and taught *a possible approach to a narrow range of photography.* There are/were many other "good photographers" (his equals) who didn't/don't: people like Henri Cartier Bresson, Joseph Muench, Irving Penn, Richard Avedon and, more recently, Sebastio Salgado...obvious examples. Ansel was important as a teacher within one narrow genre, as important for his support of the Sierra Club and its members enthusiasm for the Sierra Nevada Mts and environmentalism generally. He was very analytic, lacking broad interests and emotional complexity IMO. He didn't appreciate the excitement of his home town in his youth (San Francisco), the greatest music of his own youth (jazz), never explored color photography to anything like the depth of his peers. He was a fine portrait photographer (IMO should have done more) and did good industrial work. He was very successful selling prints and reproduction rights, from the early Sixties (eg "Half Dome" Hills Brothers 5# coffee cans that seemed to grow marijuana seedlings in every kitchen window in Northern California). > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-15 by jnhugo
> Not true at all. > > Ansel learned, helped organize, and taught *a possible approach to a > narrow range of photography.* There are/were many other "good > photographers" (his equals) who didn't/don't: people like Henri > Cartier Bresson, Joseph Muench, Irving Penn, Richard Avedon and, > more recently, Sebastio Salgado...obvious examples. > > Ansel was important as a teacher within one narrow genre, as > important for his support of the Sierra Club and its members > enthusiasm for the Sierra Nevada Mts and environmentalism generally. > > He was very analytic, lacking broad interests and emotional > complexity IMO. He didn't appreciate the excitement of his home town > in his youth (San Francisco), the greatest music of his own youth > (jazz), never explored color photography to anything like the depth > of his peers. > > He was a fine portrait photographer (IMO should have done more) and > did good industrial work. He was very successful selling prints and > reproduction rights, from the early Sixties (eg "Half Dome" Hills > Brothers 5# coffee cans that seemed to grow marijuana seedlings in > every kitchen window in Northern California). > > >I know we are suppose to keep this civil-but- this is a really uninformed line of thought-who ever wrote this needs to go back and study history- simply put- every photographer uses the "zone" system (since it is simply a lay persons version of sensitometery)_ some use it knowingly -others don't.
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-16 by Aleksandr Milewski
Two comments on this thread: One, if you've actually read what Ansel wrote about Moonrise, that photograph is all about his skill as a printer. The original negative (which was reduced significantly, even that contact print was manipulated) was extremely difficult to deal with. Second (and this is OT, because it's color)... Did somebody say Moonrise? http://www.moonchaser.net/ (sorry, we haven't ported the calculator yet...it's ancient BASIC) -Z Gary Brown wrote:
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> The nerve of this Adams guy he copied my idea, actually his image was shot > before I was born and I was definitely thinking about him when I captured > it. > > Look at: www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown/image/40345663 > > Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans > > > Jerry - thanks for this. The bit I found the most interesting was the > amount of manipulation that went into the Moonrise print. The difference > between the contact print and final product was quite staggering. > > Steve > > > >>From: Jerry in Houston <glewis4457@...> >>Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >>Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:43:12 -0700 (PDT) >>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >>Subject: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans >> >>Came across this while surfing some photo sites .... >>nice piece >> >>http://www.sfmoma.org/adams/content_web.html >> >>Jerry in Houston > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY > THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
Re: [Digital BW] For You Ansel Adams Fans
2005-06-16 by Joe Davajon
--- Aleksandr Milewski <n6mod@...> wrote: > Two comments on this thread: > > One, if you've actually read what Ansel wrote about > Moonrise, that > photograph is all about his skill as a printer. The > original negative > (which was reduced significantly, even that contact > print was > manipulated) was extremely difficult to deal with. FYI: Some years ago I took a B@W class from John Sexton whom you probably know was Ansel's assistent. John took the workshop by the Adam's home and we got to meet Mrs. Adams. We also visited Adam's darkroom and were shown the negative for "Moonrise" and I can attest that the negative looked so bad that had it been mine I probably would have thrown into my reject neg stack and forgotten about it. One of the points Mr. Sexton made was that each time Ansel printed that negative he produced a different print. And it was always very very difficult to work with. I don't think it can be argued that Mr. Adams was a superb darkroom technician. Joe Davajon Drop by my site at <davajon.net>