Digital BW, The Print

This morning I loaded some spongeless carts with UT2 ink and installed
them in my 1280.  It's been nothing but clogs all day.  I've been
using the prefilled UT2 carts for some time and have never had a clog.
 I've gone through three cleaning cycles.  Three cleanings, with
nozzle checks, and clogs.  Let it rest for several hours and then run
another nozzle check.  More clogs and three more cleanings.  I get
close to all jets firing and then it goes almost all blank.  I'm about
to leave it over night but am not encouraged.  The tape covering the
vent holes is removed and I primed the cart before installation.  How
much ink should be drawn out when priming?  I pulled enough out to
fill the bottom fill adapters.  Should it have been more?

Plus MIS sent me the wrong ink.  Fortunately I had a prefilled eboni
cart I could use but even that is clogging.

Not a good day.

Tom

Tom,
my experience is with a 1270 with spongeless - should be close enough
to make useful comment.  This has not been trouble free, though not as
 bad as your trouble.  

Given your inks are the same as you had before, and there is nothing
really to block in a spongeless cartridge (mine came with pull tabs
that must be removed, of course), I can't think of anything except air
leaks or air locks. 

After one refill I definitely had air leaks at the plugs, this led to
ink leaks (mixed good and bad nozzle checks and blobs of ink).  That
does not sound exactly what you have, but I wonder what a very small
leak would do.  I think the plugs need redesigned (there was no
damage visible but certainly there was a leak - tape fixed it).

The purpose of priming is to remove an airlock, with the black
cartridge and the outer "colours" it was quite easy to see when
sufficient ink was pulled out to remove the air bubble(s) around the
poppet valve and exit port.  This was not easy for the 3 inner inks on
the "colour" cartridge (no way to see in properly). 
In the end I just pulled a bit more than sufficed for the others (from
uncertain memory about 1 to 1.5 ml - sounds like more than you pulled).

To be on the safe side pull a bit more.  If you really fill to the max
there is plenty of ink beyond the limit set by the chip. I only primed
on the first fill as the ink remained continuous above and around the
valve.  

Ken

Thanks for the reply Ken.  

I just checked again this morning and of course the clogs are still
there.  Ran a cleaning and nozzle check and it was down to one or two
jets clogged.  Ran  another cleaning but this time it was 90% clogged.
 I guess I'll pull them, draw some ink out and make sure the plugs are
sealed.  What a frustrating wasted of time.  If I can't make it happen
I'll ask MIS to take the whole lot back.

Tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kenstrain2000"
<kenstrain2000@y...> wrote:

> Tom,
> my experience is with a 1270 with spongeless - should be close enough
> to make useful comment.  This has not been trouble free, though not as
>  bad as your trouble.  
> 
> Given your inks are the same as you had before, and there is nothing
> really to block in a spongeless cartridge (mine came with pull tabs
> that must be removed, of course), I can't think of anything except air
> leaks or air locks. 
> 
> After one refill I definitely had air leaks at the plugs, this led to
> ink leaks (mixed good and bad nozzle checks and blobs of ink).  That
> does not sound exactly what you have, but I wonder what a very small
> leak would do.  I think the plugs need redesigned (there was no
> damage visible but certainly there was a leak - tape fixed it).
> 
> The purpose of priming is to remove an airlock, with the black
> cartridge and the outer "colours" it was quite easy to see when
> sufficient ink was pulled out to remove the air bubble(s) around the
> poppet valve and exit port.  This was not easy for the 3 inner inks on
> the "colour" cartridge (no way to see in properly). 
> In the end I just pulled a bit more than sufficed for the others (from


> uncertain memory about 1 to 1.5 ml - sounds like more than you pulled).
> 
> To be on the safe side pull a bit more.  If you really fill to the max
> there is plenty of ink beyond the limit set by the chip. I only primed
> on the first fill as the ink remained continuous above and around the
> valve.  
> 
> Ken

Well I guess it all goes back.  I can't get a decent nozzle check for
the life of me.  Plus I now think there were some bad chips on the
carts because I can't get the 1280 to recognize the black cart.  I'm
really disappointed as I wanted to use the UT2 with FSN-y.  Maybe
there will be some improvements down the road.

Tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband"
<thusband@s...> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply Ken.  
> 
> I just checked again this morning and of course the clogs are still
> there.  Ran a cleaning and nozzle check and it was down to one or two
> jets clogged.  Ran  another cleaning but this time it was 90% clogged.
>  I guess I'll pull them, draw some ink out and make sure the plugs are
> sealed.  What a frustrating wasted of time.  If I can't make it happen
> I'll ask MIS to take the whole lot back.
> 
> Tom

Tom: Some of us are finding the spongeless carts to be bulletproof.
Yet you are not alone with the probelms. So it's not a design problem
but may be a production problem. 

I used my 1280 today for the first time in 2 weeks. It's loaded with
Eboni and MIS PRO color in spongeless carts. The first nozzle check
was perfect. 

I would ask Bob Zeiss at MIS if he has any clues before you give up
completely. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband"
<thusband@s...> wrote:
> Well I guess it all goes back.  I can't get a decent nozzle check
for

> the life of me.  Plus I now think there were some bad chips on the
> carts because I can't get the 1280 to recognize the black cart.  I'm
> really disappointed as I wanted to use the UT2 with FSN-y.  Maybe
> there will be some improvements down the road.
> 
> Tom
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband"
<thusband@s...> wrote:
> I can't get the 1280 to recognize the black cart.  I'm
> really disappointed as I wanted to use the UT2 with FSN-y.  Maybe
> there will be some improvements down the road.
I had this problem too, it was due to the chip being out of position. 
Hopefully (for the long term) MIS can find a fault with your cartridges.
Ken

Ken,

I bought the spongeless carts shortly after they were put on MIS site 
for sale. When they arrived, I also had the chip that was slightly mis-
aligned. A short call to tech support solved the problem. I was told 
the chip was slightly too high and that paper about the thickness of a 
business card would lower the chip to the correct position---it worked 
just fine. It shimmed about .125 inch for perfect contact. I'm am 
still using the original carts I purchased. I wouldn't call that a 
real problem at all.

Your friend in Photography,

Johnny





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kenstrain2000" 
<kenstrain2000@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband"
> <thusband@s...> wrote:
> > I can't get the 1280 to recognize the black cart.  I'm
> > really disappointed as I wanted to use the UT2 with FSN-y.  Maybe
> > there will be some improvements down the road.
> I had this problem too, it was due to the chip being out of 
position. 
> Hopefully (for the long term) MIS can find a fault with your 
cartridges.
> Ken

Johnny,
thanks, I solved it myself after working out what was happening and
measuring with respect to an OEM cartridge.  One residual concern was
that part of the cartridge seemed to "catch" on something in the head.
If it was catching on the electrical contacts I was *slightly*
concerned that they could be damaged.  I informed MIS of this and, as
always they are positive and helpful.  The risk is either very small
or zero (depending what was catching on what).

Ken

 
> Ken,
> 
> I bought the spongeless carts shortly after they were put on MIS
site 
> for sale. When they arrived, I also had the chip that was slightly
mis-
> aligned. A short call to tech support solved the problem. I was
told 
> the chip was slightly too high and that paper about the thickness
of a 
> business card would lower the chip to the correct position---it
worked 

> just fine. It shimmed about .125 inch for perfect contact. I'm am 
> still using the original carts I purchased. I wouldn't call that a 
> real problem at all.
> 
> Your friend in Photography,
> 
> Johnny