Digital BW, The Print

Yo gang!
I would like to make ( to start) 10 copies of a book of prints, each 
about 100 pages. A local shop does an inexpensive clamp binding for 
less $$ than a Kinko coil type - and it looks like a real hard cover 
book - almost elegant. The best price I found for a decent 8.5 x11 
paper was EEM @ $.23 per sheet at Atlex. Of course, it's single 
sided. Do you think it's necessary to insert a tissue page between 
each page? What would you suggest as modest price alternative in a 
duo side paper? And obviously, I'm not going to spray 1000 pages. I 
use MIS carbon pig inks w/ Eboni, so the paper must be matte.

It will cost about $40 to produce each book without counting ink - so 
I'm not going to toss one to every "interested" person. I've looked 
at the various post albums etc on Red River and similar sites. 
They're all very costly, and in the long run look like albums, not 
books.   

BTW, for small work, my cheap little C86 is churning out prints as 
high quality as my big 7600. 

I will listen to all suggestions before I begion this tiresome 
project.  Thanks in advance to all who have been so helpful in the 
past and to those who will put in their .02 on this one,

        Arlene
www.arlenelove.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lovelipp" 
<arlenelove3@...> wrote:
>
> Yo gang!
> I would like to make ( to start) 10 copies of a book of prints, 
each 
> about 100 pages. A local shop does an inexpensive clamp binding for 
> less $$ than a Kinko coil type - and it looks like a real hard 
cover 
> book - almost elegant. The best price I found for a decent 8.5 x11 
> paper was EEM @ $.23 per sheet at Atlex. Of course, it's single 
> sided. Do you think it's necessary to insert a tissue page between 
> each page? What would you suggest as modest price alternative in a 
> duo side paper? And obviously, I'm not going to spray 1000 pages. I 
> use MIS carbon pig inks w/ Eboni, so the paper must be matte.
> 
> It will cost about $40 to produce each book without counting ink - 
so 
> I'm not going to toss one to every "interested" person. I've looked 
> at the various post albums etc on Red River and similar sites. 
> They're all very costly, and in the long run look like albums, not 
> books.   
> 
> BTW, for small work, my cheap little C86 is churning out prints as 
> high quality as my big 7600. 
> 
> I will listen to all suggestions before I begion this tiresome 
> project.  Thanks in advance to all who have been so helpful in the 
> past and to those who will put in their .02 on this one,
> 
>         Arlene
> www.arlenelove.com


Have you thought about how thick 100 pages of EEM is going to be? 
From memory those pages may not turn very well, especially the pages 
in the middle.

As far as a good thin and high quality paper goes that will hold a 
good image, I haven't really found the ideal paper yet. Close is a 
paper from Hammermill, but close as far as it comes. Their Premium 
Inkjet is pretty good for printing out user manuals, etc., but I 
don't think I would use it for images. I have another paper from 
International Paper that I recieved last night, but it looks like it 
will not do what I need either. If it is decent I'll let you know 
(expectations are low though).

Unfortunately if you are not going to spray these prints, and of
course for that many it would be a toxic nightmare, your prints on EEM
are going to scratch. The Red River papers are worse.

About the only papers that I would even consider using in such a book
are Premiere Art Hotpress (E Ultrasmooth) or one of the Innova fine
art papers like Smooth Cotton (not fibaprint that would definitely
scrach and scuff in such a context) but these are not cheap. I don't
know of a cheap solution.

Anybody know any others? 

John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately if you are not going to spray these prints, and of
> course for that many it would be a toxic nightmare, your prints on 
EEM
> are going to scratch. The Red River papers are worse.
> 
> About the only papers that I would even consider using in such a book
> are Premiere Art Hotpress (E Ultrasmooth) or one of the Innova fine
> art papers like Smooth Cotton (not fibaprint that would definitely
> scrach and scuff in such a context) but these are not cheap. I don't
> know of a cheap solution.
> 
> Anybody know any others? 
> 
> John
>
John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth Cotton, and 
it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way. I just picked up some DCP 
varnish to try and would consider spraying only those pages in a book 
with images. I have also printed with a Legion book papaer, but don't 
recall the specific name right now. It could be a 115g Somerset but 
I'll need to check the package. 

Eric

Eric,

That is good to know. I haven't had the trouble with Smooth Cotton the
way I did with Photorag but your point is well taken. I've only used
it so far for large prints and it has never given me any trouble with
any inkset, but books are a different animal altogether.

Legion Somerset Velvet is possibly what you refering to here, but it
is very flat looking to me in black density and gamut. And, with Epson
inks the blacks would still scuff. The Legion Matte scratches about
the same as EEM. RC papers are the worst.

Unfortunately everything photographic for a book is going to have to
be sprayed, regardless, in my experience, especially with Ultrachrome.

I have tryed painting on the DCP varnish and it just destroyed the
surface and tonality of the print, but I like it for canvas just fine.

John

 >
> John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth Cotton, and 
> it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way. I just picked up some DCP 
> varnish to try and would consider spraying only those pages in a book 
> with images. I have also printed with a Legion book papaer, but don't 
> recall the specific name right now. It could be a 115g Somerset but 
> I'll need to check the package. 
> 
> Eric
>

John, Eric,

>John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth Cotton, and 
>it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way. 

The physically toughest paper I've tested is Museo Max.  You literally
cannot scratch any ink off it with a fingernail.  The paper surface
itself breaks up before any ink comes off.  And it's a very handsome
paper.  Unfortunately it's dmax is not as good as PR and VFA, etc.,
but it's worth getting some samples for a try.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton,
I _can_ get a similar Dmax with MuseoMax as PR using oem ink in a 2200.
It requires a RIP, or preprocessing the image data for the Epson driver in a
non-optimum way to overcome a Dmax reversal at 88%K (on my printer).  In
addition to the Dmax reversal, there is a considerable discontinuity in the
MK/LK transition on this paper with the Epson driver partitioning.  Lowering
color density in the ink-config of the driver to overcome the MK reversal
does not address the MK/LK transition and also reduces the color gamut, so
that is not a good solution.
Since the 2400 uses the same MK as the 2200, the Dmax reversal is likely
similar, but the partitioning would certainly be different.  For a
quick-and-dirty test on your 2400, take a BW image that prints well on
typical papers, apply a 0,30 – 255,255 (lightening) curve and print that
using Epson VFA settings no-icm on MuseoMax.  I would be interested to see
if that gives you blacks and shadow detail equal to PR.  To be clear, I’m
not recommending this as a way to print; simply an exploration.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:30 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: paper for multiple book copies

John, Eric,

>John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth Cotton, and
>it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way.

The physically toughest paper I've tested is Museo Max.  You literally
cannot scratch any ink off it with a fingernail.  The paper surface
itself breaks up before any ink comes off.  And it's a very handsome
paper.  Unfortunately it's dmax is not as good as PR and VFA, etc.,
but it's worth getting some samples for a try.

Regards,
Clayton





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Has anyone else printed and measured 1024 level stepwedges?
With the sample I did, it shows clear advantage to the tonal smoothness
possible with a >8 bit workflow.  I realize differences of 0.5L* may not
matter to most, but if it is your interest, I would like to hear what
results you may have gotten.

Best regards,
John Moody




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: John Moody
> 
> Has anyone else printed and measured 1024 level stepwedges?
> With the sample I did, it shows clear advantage to the tonal smoothness
> possible with a >8 bit workflow.  I realize differences of 0.5L* may not
> matter to most, but if it is your interest, I would like to hear what
> results you may have gotten.

Printed with what?

-- 

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

I have samples as well as full 17x22 sheets. It prints beautifully, but it
is a bit thick to use in a book. I guess one should ask if the book is meant
to be read with the pages turned often, or is it to be viewed very few
times?  If it is meant to be looked at,  and an expectation that  its pages
will see a lot of turning, than to me ,Museo Max would prove to be a poor
choice. It may make a good choice if it is more like  a bound portfolio. The
Museo Max in sheets, is quite thick and even in rolls is still thicker than
I'd use for a book. The paper I suggested is a thin, 115g  paper meant for
books. HPR 188 might work as well. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

 <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:30 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: paper for multiple book copies

 

John, Eric,

>John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth Cotton, and 
>it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way. 

The physically toughest paper I've tested is Museo Max.  You literally
cannot scratch any ink off it with a fingernail.  The paper surface
itself breaks up before any ink comes off.  And it's a very handsome
paper.  Unfortunately it's dmax is not as good as PR and VFA, etc.,
but it's worth getting some samples for a try.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I used OPM (Bowhaus)

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul D.
DeRocco
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:54 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] 16-bit vs. 8-bit

> From: John Moody
>
> Has anyone else printed and measured 1024 level stepwedges?
> With the sample I did, it shows clear advantage to the tonal smoothness
> possible with a >8 bit workflow.  I realize differences of 0.5L* may not
> matter to most, but if it is your interest, I would like to hear what
> results you may have gotten.

Printed with what?

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric,

I haven't tried this on yet, but it's one I'm considering for case 
bound books:

Premier Premium Matte
European elegance in this 110 or 210 gram, premium matte paper. The 
base and coating are acid free with a smooth finish. Perfect for 
bright white proofing with dye or pigment inks. Coated both sides.    
 
110 Gram Weight, 5.5 mil Thickness    
 Size 50 Sheets Price    
 8 1/2 x 11 663-85115 $ 8.95    
 11 x 17 663-11175 17.95    
 13 x 19 663-13195 23.95    
 
24" x 30' 663-2430 $ 14.95    
 36" x 30' 663-3630 22.95  

http://www.photo-warehouse.com/premier.html

Price seems good, too.

Scott



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen 
Photography" <eric@...> wrote:
>
> I have samples as well as full 17x22 sheets. It prints beautifully, 
but it
> is a bit thick to use in a book. I guess one should ask if the book 
is meant
> to be read with the pages turned often, or is it to be viewed very 
few
> times?  If it is meant to be looked at,  and an expectation that  
its pages
> will see a lot of turning, than to me ,Museo Max would prove to be 
a poor
> choice. It may make a good choice if it is more like  a bound 
portfolio. The
> Museo Max in sheets, is quite thick and even in rolls is still 
thicker than
> I'd use for a book. The paper I suggested is a thin, 115g  paper 
meant for
> books. HPR 188 might work as well. 
> 
>  
> 
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> 
> Dallas, TX 75226
> 
> 214-827-8301
> 
>  <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> 
http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> 
>  
> 
> Skype : ejprinter
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Clayton
> Jones
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:30 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: paper for multiple book copies
> 
>  
> 
> John, Eric,
> 
> >John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth Cotton, 
and 
> >it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way. 
> 
> The physically toughest paper I've tested is Museo Max.  You 
literally
> cannot scratch any ink off it with a fingernail.  The paper surface
> itself breaks up before any ink comes off.  And it's a very handsome
> paper.  Unfortunately it's dmax is not as good as PR and VFA, etc.,
> but it's worth getting some samples for a try.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED 
OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPONSORED LINKS 
> 
> 
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> 
> Learn
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Learn+digital+photography&w1=Digital+we
> 
dding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+
colleg
> 
e&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+ph
otogra
> phy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=emApqtvj0kHQhppIzRrNgw>  digital 
photography 
> 
> Digital
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography+college&w1=Digital+
> 
wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograph
y+coll
> 
ege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+
photog
> raphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=aIiABJLTZsUnmWBs4mZwuA>  photography 
college 
> 
> 
> Digital
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+wedding+
> 
photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+colleg
e&w4=D
> 
igital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photogra
phy+co
> urse&c=6&s=188&.sig=pJmwqgVzec3JGBtWYlPbOg>  photography 
> 
> Digital
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography+web+site&w1=Digital
> 
+wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograp
hy+col
> 
lege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital
+photo
> graphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=BMII8rtDZlAtVdZsPhaZqw>  photography 
web site 
> 
> Digital
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+w
> 
edding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography
+colle
> 
ge&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+p
hotogr
> aphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=OrnrutXVhHZu-7E7ccLtuw>  photography 
course 
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> 
>  
> 
> *	 Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> " on 
the web.
>   
> *	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Yes, I used this a few years ago and it was very nice.  Dmax was  
comparable to EEM, but I don't know if the coating has been changed.   
VERY smooth surface and a supple paper that should be good for books.

Carl

On Feb 12, 2006, at 8:30 PM, scott_now_coming wrote:

> Eric,
>
> I haven't tried this on yet, but it's one I'm considering for case
> bound books:
>
> Premier Premium Matte
> European elegance in this 110 or 210 gram, premium matte paper. The
> base and coating are acid free with a smooth finish. Perfect for
> bright white proofing with dye or pigment inks. Coated both sides.
>
> 110 Gram Weight, 5.5 mil Thickness
>  Size 50 Sheets Price
>  8 1/2 x 11 663-85115 $ 8.95
>  11 x 17 663-11175 17.95
>  13 x 19 663-13195 23.95
>
> 24" x 30' 663-2430 $ 14.95
>  36" x 30' 663-3630 22.95
>
> http://www.photo-warehouse.com/premier.html
>
> Price seems good, too.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
> Photography" <eric@...> wrote:
>>
>> I have samples as well as full 17x22 sheets. It prints beautifully,
> but it
>> is a bit thick to use in a book. I guess one should ask if the book
> is meant
>> to be read with the pages turned often, or is it to be viewed very
> few
>> times?  If it is meant to be looked at,  and an expectation that
> its pages
>> will see a lot of turning, than to me ,Museo Max would prove to be
> a poor
>> choice. It may make a good choice if it is more like  a bound
> portfolio. The
>> Museo Max in sheets, is quite thick and even in rolls is still
> thicker than
>> I'd use for a book. The paper I suggested is a thin, 115g  paper
> meant for
>> books. HPR 188 might work as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>>
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>>
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>
>> 214-827-8301
>>
>>  <http://ericneilsenphotography.com>
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Skype : ejprinter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   _____
>>
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Clayton
>> Jones
>> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:30 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: paper for multiple book copies
>>
>>
>>
>> John, Eric,
>>
>>> John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth Cotton,
> and
>>> it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way.
>>
>> The physically toughest paper I've tested is Museo Max.  You
> literally
>> cannot scratch any ink off it with a fingernail.  The paper surface
>> itself breaks up before any ink comes off.  And it's a very handsome
>> paper.  Unfortunately it's dmax is not as good as PR and VFA, etc.,
>> but it's worth getting some samples for a try.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Clayton
>>
>>
>> Info on black and white digital printing at
>> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> this same
>> page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to keep
>> them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> flames.
>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>> membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> B&W
>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> removed from
>> the membership.
>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
> Owner and
>> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT
>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
>> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> LIABLE TO YOU
>> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY
>> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
>> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF
> THE  "OWNER" AND
>> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED
> OF THE
>> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
> INABILITY
>> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED
> ACCESS TO OR
>> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> CONDUCT OF ANY
>> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY
> OTHER
>> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>
>>
>> Digital
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Digital+wedding+photography&w1=Digital+
>>
> wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograph
> y+coll
>>
> ege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+
> photog
>> raphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=Umur-3rsLOic7dZMwVL94w>  wedding
> photography
>>
>> Learn
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Learn+digital+photography&w1=Digital+we
>>
> dding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+
> colleg
>>
> e&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+ph
> otogra
>> phy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=emApqtvj0kHQhppIzRrNgw>  digital
> photography
>>
>> Digital
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Digital+photography+college&w1=Digital+
>>
> wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograph
> y+coll
>>
> ege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+
> photog
>> raphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=aIiABJLTZsUnmWBs4mZwuA>  photography
> college
>>
>>
>> Digital
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+wedding+
>>
> photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+colleg
> e&w4=D
>>
> igital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photogra
> phy+co
>> urse&c=6&s=188&.sig=pJmwqgVzec3JGBtWYlPbOg>  photography
>>
>> Digital
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Digital+photography+web+site&w1=Digital
>>
> +wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograp
> hy+col
>>
> lege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital
> +photo
>> graphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=BMII8rtDZlAtVdZsPhaZqw>  photography
> web site
>>
>> Digital
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+w
>>
> edding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography
> +colle
>>
> ge&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+p
> hotogr
>> aphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=OrnrutXVhHZu-7E7ccLtuw>  photography
> course
>>
>>
>>
>>   _____
>>
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>
>>
>> *	 Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> " on
> the web.
>>
>> *	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
> subject=Uns
>> ubscribe>
>>
>> *	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
>> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>
>>   _____
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming" 
<scott_now_coming@...> wrote:
> 
> Premier Premium Matte
> European elegance in this 110 or 210 gram, premium matte paper. The 
> base and coating are acid free with a smooth finish. Perfect for 
> bright white proofing with dye or pigment inks. Coated both 
sides.    
>  
> 110 Gram Weight, 5.5 mil Thickness    


If the print quality is good, that might work fairly well! 5.5 mill 
should allow for easy page turns.

Thanks Carl. It's good to hear that someone has used this paper.

I'd love to use Crane Silver Rag because it looks awesome and is 
EXTREMELY durable, but it's way too "think". Too bad, though.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, I used this a few years ago and it was very nice.  Dmax was  
> comparable to EEM, but I don't know if the coating has been 
changed.   
> VERY smooth surface and a supple paper that should be good for 
books.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Feb 12, 2006, at 8:30 PM, scott_now_coming wrote:
> 
> > Eric,
> >
> > I haven't tried this on yet, but it's one I'm considering for case
> > bound books:
> >
> > Premier Premium Matte
> > European elegance in this 110 or 210 gram, premium matte paper. 
The
> > base and coating are acid free with a smooth finish. Perfect for
> > bright white proofing with dye or pigment inks. Coated both sides.
> >
> > 110 Gram Weight, 5.5 mil Thickness
> >  Size 50 Sheets Price
> >  8 1/2 x 11 663-85115 $ 8.95
> >  11 x 17 663-11175 17.95
> >  13 x 19 663-13195 23.95
> >
> > 24" x 30' 663-2430 $ 14.95
> >  36" x 30' 663-3630 22.95
> >
> > http://www.photo-warehouse.com/premier.html
> >
> > Price seems good, too.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
> > Photography" <eric@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have samples as well as full 17x22 sheets. It prints 
beautifully,
> > but it
> >> is a bit thick to use in a book. I guess one should ask if the 
book
> > is meant
> >> to be read with the pages turned often, or is it to be viewed 
very
> > few
> >> times?  If it is meant to be looked at,  and an expectation that
> > its pages
> >> will see a lot of turning, than to me ,Museo Max would prove to 
be
> > a poor
> >> choice. It may make a good choice if it is more like  a bound
> > portfolio. The
> >> Museo Max in sheets, is quite thick and even in rolls is still
> > thicker than
> >> I'd use for a book. The paper I suggested is a thin, 115g  paper
> > meant for
> >> books. HPR 188 might work as well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Eric Neilsen Photography
> >>
> >> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> >>
> >> Dallas, TX 75226
> >>
> >> 214-827-8301
> >>
> >>  <http://ericneilsenphotography.com>
> > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Skype : ejprinter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   _____
> >>
> >> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of
> > Clayton
> >> Jones
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:30 PM
> >> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: paper for multiple book copies
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John, Eric,
> >>
> >>> John, I have been printing quite a bit with Innova Smooth 
Cotton,
> > and
> >>> it it scuffs very easily. For books? no way.
> >>
> >> The physically toughest paper I've tested is Museo Max.  You
> > literally
> >> cannot scratch any ink off it with a fingernail.  The paper 
surface
> >> itself breaks up before any ink comes off.  And it's a very 
handsome
> >> paper.  Unfortunately it's dmax is not as good as PR and VFA, 
etc.,
> >> but it's worth getting some samples for a try.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Clayton
> >>
> >>
> >> Info on black and white digital printing at
> >> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > resources as
> >> they are often being updated.
> >>
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>
> >> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> > wish to
> >> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> > this same
> >> page.
> >>
> >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages
> > to keep
> >> them short.
> >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > flames.
> >> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the
> >> membership without notice.
> >> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital
> > B&W
> >> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> > removed from
> >> the membership.
> >> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> >> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group
> > Owner and
> >> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >>
> >> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE
> > PRINT
> >> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> >> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> > LIABLE TO YOU
> >> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY
> >> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
PROFITS,
> >> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF
> > THE  "OWNER" AND
> >> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED
> > OF THE
> >> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
> > INABILITY
> >> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED
> > ACCESS TO OR
> >> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> > CONDUCT OF ANY
> >> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY
> > OTHER
> >> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> SPONSORED LINKS
> >>
> >>
> >> Digital
> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Digital+wedding+photography&w1=Digital+
> >>
> > 
wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograph
> > y+coll
> >>
> > 
ege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+
> > photog
> >> raphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=Umur-3rsLOic7dZMwVL94w>  wedding
> > photography
> >>
> >> Learn
> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Learn+digital+photography&w1=Digital+we
> >>
> > 
dding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+
> > colleg
> >>
> > 
e&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+ph
> > otogra
> >> phy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=emApqtvj0kHQhppIzRrNgw>  digital
> > photography
> >>
> >> Digital
> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Digital+photography+college&w1=Digital+
> >>
> > 
wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograph
> > y+coll
> >>
> > 
ege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+
> > photog
> >> raphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=aIiABJLTZsUnmWBs4mZwuA>  photography
> > college
> >>
> >>
> >> Digital
> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+wedding+
> >>
> > 
photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+colleg
> > e&w4=D
> >>
> > 
igital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+photogra
> > phy+co
> >> urse&c=6&s=188&.sig=pJmwqgVzec3JGBtWYlPbOg>  photography
> >>
> >> Digital
> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Digital+photography+web+site&w1=Digital
> >>
> > 
+wedding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photograp
> > hy+col
> >>
> > 
lege&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital
> > +photo
> >> graphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=BMII8rtDZlAtVdZsPhaZqw>  photography
> > web site
> >>
> >> Digital
> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+w
> >>
> > 
edding+photography&w2=Learn+digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography
> > +colle
> >>
> > 
ge&w4=Digital+photography&w5=Digital+photography+web+site&w6=Digital+p
> > hotogr
> >> aphy+course&c=6&s=188&.sig=OrnrutXVhHZu-7E7ccLtuw>  photography
> > course
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   _____
> >>
> >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *	 Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> " on
> > the web.
> >>
> >> *	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
> > subject=Uns
> >> ubscribe>
> >>
> >> *	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> >> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   _____
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>

Yeah, this is the paper I've been considering for books. 

I think Paul's used it and mentioned it here a while ago.

I'll only print on one side, so the 5.5 mil factor shouldn't be a 
problem.

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" 
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:

>
> --- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming" 
> <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
> > 
> > Premier Premium Matte
> > European elegance in this 110 or 210 gram, premium matte paper. The 
> > base and coating are acid free with a smooth finish. Perfect for 
> > bright white proofing with dye or pigment inks. Coated both 
> sides.    
> >  
> > 110 Gram Weight, 5.5 mil Thickness    
> 
> 
> If the print quality is good, that might work fairly well! 5.5 mill 
> should allow for easy page turns.
>

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming" 
<scott_now_coming@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, this is the paper I've been considering for books. 
> 
> I think Paul's used it and mentioned it here a while ago.
> 
> I'll only print on one side, so the 5.5 mil factor shouldn't be a 
> problem.
> 
> Scott


Because of the lack of inkjet paper options for bound books, I'm 
thinking that I need to look into other technologies. And those other 
technologies may be very expensive just to proto type. Not sure how 
far I'll get as there may be other limitations involved.

I haven't seen Ctein's article on making books in Photo Techniques
Jan/Feb 2006 mentioned here. Apologies if it has and I've missed it.

He prints his books on EEM, with Epson Photo Quality Paper as
interleaves, and has them professionally bound by Cardoza-James in San
Francisco. 

http://ctein.com/monographs.htm 

I was a little surprised to discover that Ctein used EEM for books
selling for $900.

Best,
Helen

Try the 210 weight.  It is very supple and not stiff like EEM.

On Feb 12, 2006, at 11:40 PM, scott_now_coming wrote:

> Yeah, this is the paper I've been considering for books.
>
> I think Paul's used it and mentioned it here a while ago.
>
> I'll only print on one side, so the 5.5 mil factor shouldn't be a
> problem.
>
> Scott
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
> <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In
>> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming"
>> <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
>>>
>>> Premier Premium Matte
>>> European elegance in this 110 or 210 gram, premium matte paper. The
>>> base and coating are acid free with a smooth finish. Perfect for
>>> bright white proofing with dye or pigment inks. Coated both
>> sides.
>>>
>>> 110 Gram Weight, 5.5 mil Thickness
>>
>>
>> If the print quality is good, that might work fairly well! 5.5 mill
>> should allow for easy page turns.
>>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "helen_bach2003" 
<helenbach@...> wrote:
>
> I haven't seen Ctein's article on making books in Photo Techniques
> Jan/Feb 2006 mentioned here. Apologies if it has and I've missed it.
> 
> He prints his books on EEM, with Epson Photo Quality Paper as
> interleaves, and has them professionally bound by Cardoza-James in San
> Francisco. 
> 
> http://ctein.com/monographs.htm 
> 
> I was a little surprised to discover that Ctein used EEM for books
> selling for $900.
> 
> Best,
> Helen
>



"The hand-bound volumes are created by Cardoza-James Bindery of San 
Francisco, using the finest archival materials. "

Maybe in a book that EEM paper will be OK, but not something I would 
risk. Maybe the archival materials in the binding fix those problems.

Think I would go with Innova Photo Fiba, or maybe one of the paper from 
Hawk Mountain for pages that thick.

Thanks Greg. 

BTW, I forgot to mention, when I do go the route of casebound books 
on matte paper, I plan on spraying a coat or two of LASCAUX'S Fixativ 
to help protect the pages against "scuffing".

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" 
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>
> --- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming" 
> <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, this is the paper I've been considering for books. 
> > 
> > I think Paul's used it and mentioned it here a while ago.
> > 
> > I'll only print on one side, so the 5.5 mil factor shouldn't be a 
> > problem.
> > 
> > Scott
> 
> 
> Because of the lack of inkjet paper options for bound books, I'm 
> thinking that I need to look into other technologies. And those 
other 

> technologies may be very expensive just to proto type. Not sure how 
> far I'll get as there may be other limitations involved.
>

Thanks Carl, I'll order both when I'm ready and I'll yet everyone 
know which I prefer.

Scott

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@...> wrote:
>
> Try the 210 weight.  It is very supple and not stiff like EEM.
> 
> On Feb 12, 2006, at 11:40 PM, scott_now_coming wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, this is the paper I've been considering for books.
> >
> > I think Paul's used it and mentioned it here a while ago.
> >
> > I'll only print on one side, so the 5.5 mil factor shouldn't be a
> > problem.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
> > <dfaprinting@> wrote:
> >>
> >> --- In
> >> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming"
> >> <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Premier Premium Matte
> >>> European elegance in this 110 or 210 gram, premium matte paper. 
The
> >>> base and coating are acid free with a smooth finish. Perfect for
> >>> bright white proofing with dye or pigment inks. Coated both
> >> sides.
> >>>
> >>> 110 Gram Weight, 5.5 mil Thickness
> >>
> >>
> >> If the print quality is good, that might work fairly well! 5.5 
mill

> >> should allow for easy page turns.
> >>
>

One thing that is being overlooked with the discussion so far is the idea of
grain direction. This is the basis for any correctly bound book, the grain
should go with the spine. Many of the papers that have been mentioned may
produce great prints but the book may fall apart when exposed to different
moisture conditions.

I personally produce many books and the first factor is the binding and then
finding the correct paper size. Please just keep this in mind, as many
companies are not keeping their grain directions in a box of paper
consistent. The companies are just going for maximum yield and mixing the
grain direction. 

‹‹
Eric T. Kunsman




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric, The Sommerset Book paper I mentioned comes in rather large sheets,
26x40. When platinum printing I noticed most full size sheets had the grain
all running one way. It was only on smaller sizes that grain started to
change from one direction to another.

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Kunsman
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:04 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: paper for multiple book copies

 


One thing that is being overlooked with the discussion so far is the idea of
grain direction. This is the basis for any correctly bound book, the grain
should go with the spine. Many of the papers that have been mentioned may
produce great prints but the book may fall apart when exposed to different
moisture conditions.

I personally produce many books and the first factor is the binding and then
finding the correct paper size. Please just keep this in mind, as many
companies are not keeping their grain directions in a box of paper
consistent. The companies are just going for maximum yield and mixing the
grain direction. 

<<
Eric T. Kunsman




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've heard the "grain direction" issue mentioned before.

I'll probably be using a square for mat, so I'll be able trim the 
paper and use it in the direction I need to.

Thanks for the reminder. :>)

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Eric Kunsman 
<eric@...> wrote:
>
> 
> One thing that is being overlooked with the discussion so far is 
the idea of
> grain direction. This is the basis for any correctly bound book, 
the grain
> should go with the spine. Many of the papers that have been 
mentioned may
> produce great prints but the book may fall apart when exposed to 
different
> moisture conditions.
> 
> I personally produce many books and the first factor is the binding 
and then
> finding the correct paper size. Please just keep this in mind, as 
many
> companies are not keeping their grain directions in a box of paper
> consistent. The companies are just going for maximum yield and 
mixing the

> grain direction. 
> 
> ‹‹
> Eric T. Kunsman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Eric

Yes, most large sizes will have long grain direction. The problem is exactly
as you mention, once you go to smaller sheets manufacturers are cutting in
any direction they feel will generate the most amount of money. This is fine
but then they mix and match and do not label the grain direction because
they cannot guarantee the direction of grain.

If you are working with master sheets than it sounds like you should be able
to plan accordingly for your book project.



‹‹
Eric T. Kunsman


Booksmart Studio
PO Box 160
Penfield, NY 14526
1.800.761.6623
585.598.9322
Fax: 585.267.7103
www.booksmartstudio.com





Eric, The Sommerset Book paper I mentioned comes in rather large sheets,
26x40. When platinum printing I noticed most full size sheets had the grain
all running one way. It was only on smaller sizes that grain started to
change from one direction to another.

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Innova have their four 'Bookart' papers that are available in a choice
of long or short grain.

Best,
Helen

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Eric Kunsman
<eric@...> wrote:
>
> 
> One thing that is being overlooked with the discussion so far is the
idea of
> grain direction. This is the basis for any correctly bound book, the
grain
> should go with the spine.

I could not find a description of these papers on the Innova site. Who is
selling them?

Bill Wandel 

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
helen_bach2003
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:14 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: paper for multiple book copies

Innova have their four 'Bookart' papers that are available in a choice of
long or short grain.

Best,
Helen

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Eric Kunsman <eric@...>
wrote:
>
> 
> One thing that is being overlooked with the discussion so far is the
idea of
> grain direction. This is the basis for any correctly bound book, the
grain
> should go with the spine. 





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
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the membership.
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Wandel" 
<bill@...> wrote:
>
> I could not find a description of these papers on the Innova site. 
Who is
> selling them?
> 
> Bill Wandel 


http://www.shadesofpaper.com