Digital BW, The Print

It's real. It's one of several actions like this around the country. It's 
basically a typical class action case in which the lawyers will be paid 
millions (note in the Notice the basis on which the lawyers propose to 
calculate their fees) and  Epson will do very well because you have to buy 
more Epson products in order to have anything against which to apply your 
$45 credit (or you can get a whopping $25 check and a smaller credit). The 
only parties that don't make out so well are the injured parties.  Strange 
system.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg" <dfaprinting@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] different Epson law suit


http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.htm

Anyone know if this is real?





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http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.htm

Anyone know if this is real?

Sure looks it. It does seem to say if you registered an Epson printer  
with Epson you will automatically get the claim amounts. Have you  
cross posted this link to other 'printer" e-groups?
Mark

On Apr 13, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Greg wrote:

> http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.htm
>
> Anyone know if this is real?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia 
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> Sure looks it. It does seem to say if you registered an Epson 
printer  
> with Epson you will automatically get the claim amounts. Have you  
> cross posted this link to other 'printer" e-groups?
> Mark
> 

Found it at DPReview, and monitoring now. From the claim form, you 
didn't have to register your printer, just buy one as you can 
register it through the claim. That of course seems a little odd to 
me, but you never know.

Wonder if I dare claim my 9500 which I bought used, and have never 
used OEM ink in the thing. But I think my cx6600 will be claimed, and 
the cx6400 I bought for my parents a couple years ago, and if I can 
find any info on the POS 785epx. So that's what, about $135 worth of 
Epson stuff. I might also be able to claim the old 640 that I have 
around.

I have two of the printers on the list a 1000ICS and a R200. Too bad the color pro 2000 is nit in the list, It is just a real POS

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Greg 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] different Epson law suit


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia 
  <mark@...> wrote:
  >
  > Sure looks it. It does seem to say if you registered an Epson 
  printer  
  > with Epson you will automatically get the claim amounts. Have you  
  > cross posted this link to other 'printer" e-groups?
  > Mark
  > 

  Found it at DPReview, and monitoring now. From the claim form, you 
  didn't have to register your printer, just buy one as you can 
  register it through the claim. That of course seems a little odd to 
  me, but you never know.

  Wonder if I dare claim my 9500 which I bought used, and have never 
  used OEM ink in the thing. But I think my cx6600 will be claimed, and 
  the cx6400 I bought for my parents a couple years ago, and if I can 
  find any info on the POS 785epx. So that's what, about $135 worth of 
  Epson stuff. I might also be able to claim the old 640 that I have 
  around.






  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
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  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg wrote:

> Wonder if I dare claim my 9500 which I bought used, and have never
> used OEM ink in the thing.

You'd consider selling your integrity for $45 worth of credit at the 
Epson e-store? Don't do it Greg. I hope your integrity is worth more to 
you than that.
--
Bruce Watson

I have long suspected that the manufacturers and the lawyers team up to
bring some of these suits.  Not really, though... my two favorites are the
Campbell-Hausfield class action, where my share of the class settlement was
$5 off my next Campbell-Hausfield air compressor (the fraud was mis-marked
horsepower rating), and Southwestern Bell, where my share was six months of
free services I didn't need, and which would continue after six months (not
free) unless I affirmatively canceled them. Now that these are relegated to
Federal court, hopefully some sanity will prevail, but too late for some
clients who have spent millions defending against a lawyer-made class
action.  I will feel much better not claiming anything in this action.  EOR,
back to trying to make an image worthy of printing with my over-priced inks.

Ken
www.kencarney.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Greg
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:32 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] different Epson law suit
> 
> http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.htm
> 
> Anyone know if this is real?

** Reply to message from Mark Savoia <mark@...> on Thu, 13 Apr 2006
21:05:30 -0400

I recieved two postal mails today for both my Epson Printers that I registered.
with a specific number you had to enter with EAI.  Anthony

Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population.
Albert Einstein

So, do we want Epson to suck every cartridge dry, making sure we get all the
ink we purchased, but causing air in the lines? Maybe Epson should suck the
cartridges dry so that people would waste half their ink on clearing "head
clogs." Maybe then they would be happy.

There's a reason that they leave some ink in the cartridge.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Savoia
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:06 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] different Epson law suit

Sure looks it. It does seem to say if you registered an Epson printer  
with Epson you will automatically get the claim amounts. Have you  
cross posted this link to other 'printer" e-groups?
Mark

On Apr 13, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Greg wrote:

> http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.htm
>
> Anyone know if this is real?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

BIG DISCLAIMER: although I am a lawyer, do NOT take anything I'm 
about to say as legal advice.

In a class action (in federal courts at least; this seems to be a 
state court, so what I'm about to say may not apply), if it is a 
certain type of class action, putative members of the class who do 
not wish to be bound by the result can "opt-out" of the class.  So, 
one would have several options in this situation:

(1) take the settlement as proposed
(2) opt-out of the class and bring your own lawsuit
(3) ignore it entirely (don't file a claim and don't opt-out), 
meaning you will be bound by the result and the settlement and 
precluded from bring your own claim later.

So, if you feel the "coupon settlement" is unfair, just opt out of 
the class (assuming that's allowed under the applicable state rules 
for this type of class action) and bring your own lawsuit for the 
amount of damage you think you've suffered from wasted ink.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Carney" 
<kcarney1@...> wrote:
>
> I have long suspected that the manufacturers and the lawyers team 
up to
> bring some of these suits.  Not really, though... my two favorites 
are the
> Campbell-Hausfield class action, where my share of the class 
settlement was
> $5 off my next Campbell-Hausfield air compressor (the fraud was mis-
marked
> horsepower rating), and Southwestern Bell, where my share was six 
months of
> free services I didn't need, and which would continue after six 
months (not
> free) unless I affirmatively canceled them. Now that these are 
relegated to
> Federal court, hopefully some sanity will prevail, but too late for 
some
> clients who have spent millions defending against a lawyer-made 
class
> action.  I will feel much better not claiming anything in this 
action.  EOR,
> back to trying to make an image worthy of printing with my over-
priced inks.

> 
> Ken
> www.kencarney.com
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Greg
> > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:32 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] different Epson law suit
> > 
> > http://www.epsonsettlement.com/index.htm
> > 
> > Anyone know if this is real?
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chipcarterdc" 
<chipcarterdc@...> wrote:
>
> BIG DISCLAIMER: although I am a lawyer, do NOT take anything I'm 
> about to say as legal advice.
> 
> In a class action (in federal courts at least; this seems to be a 
> state court, so what I'm about to say may not apply), if it is a 
> certain type of class action, putative members of the class who do 
> not wish to be bound by the result can "opt-out" of the class.  So, 
> one would have several options in this situation:
> 
> (1) take the settlement as proposed
> (2) opt-out of the class and bring your own lawsuit
> (3) ignore it entirely (don't file a claim and don't opt-out), 
> meaning you will be bound by the result and the settlement and 
> precluded from bring your own claim later.
> 
> So, if you feel the "coupon settlement" is unfair, just opt out of 
> the class (assuming that's allowed under the applicable state rules 
> for this type of class action) and bring your own lawsuit for the 
> amount of damage you think you've suffered from wasted ink.
> 
> 

Thanks Chip,

How does one opt out?

Cheers

Jules

The claim form asks for serial numbers. I have owned 2 740s, a 1200, a
1270 and a 1280, but i don't have them any more, and don't have serial
numbers, and probably did not register with EAI. Am I SOL on the
settlement?

-matt

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lulalake_1999" 
<lulalake_1999@...> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Chip,
> 
> How does one opt out?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jules
>
It's in the form on the link I gave, or simply do nothing.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "matt haber" 
<matt@...> wrote:
>
> The claim form asks for serial numbers. I have owned 2 740s, a 1200, a
> 1270 and a 1280, but i don't have them any more, and don't have serial
> numbers, and probably did not register with EAI. Am I SOL on the
> settlement?
> 
> -matt
>

Probably, and they would have to have been purchased after the 1999 
date given in the form, else my 1520 would qualify too.

Depends on the applicable state rule, which in this case would be the provision in the 
California Rules of Civil Procedure governing class actions.  Also, while I haven't read the 
actual settlement notice in any detail, those notices usually provide specific instructions on 
how to opt out.  

(Again, I'm assuming that this is the type of class action in which opt-out is allowed, and 
that the time for opting out hasn't passed.  And also, again, please consult an attorney and 
don't take anything I've said as legal advice).


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lulalake_1999" 
<lulalake_1999@...> wrote:

> 
> Thanks Chip,
> 
> How does one opt out?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jules
>

Hang on there.  Usually, if you don't do anything, you're deemed to have consented to being 
part of the class.  "Opt-out" means taking affirmative steps to disassociate your self from the 
class.  (Again, I have not read the notice).


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:

> >
> It's in the form on the link I gave, or simply do nothing.
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chipcarterdc" 
<chipcarterdc@...> wrote:
>
> Hang on there.  Usually, if you don't do anything, you're deemed to 
have consented to being 
> part of the class.  "Opt-out" means taking affirmative steps to 
disassociate your self from the 
> class.  (Again, I have not read the notice).
> 
> 
 OK, yes that might be true, depends on how they built the case. 
Anyway, I do remember seeing specific language in there on how to opt 
out, and there is a timetable in the FAQs.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chipcarterdc" 
<chipcarterdc@...> wrote:
>
> Depends on the applicable state rule, which in this case would be 
the provision in the 
> California Rules of Civil Procedure governing class actions.  Also, 
while I haven't read the 
> actual settlement notice in any detail, those notices usually 
provide specific instructions on 
> how to opt out.  
> 
> (Again, I'm assuming that this is the type of class action in which 
opt-out is allowed, and 
> that the time for opting out hasn't passed.  And also, again, 
please consult an attorney and 
> don't take anything I've said as legal advice).
> 


Thanks again.

Jules

 
> --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lulalake_1999" 

> <lulalake_1999@> wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks Chip,
> > 
> > How does one opt out?
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > Jules
> >
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" 
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chipcarterdc" 
> <chipcarterdc@> wrote:
> >
> > Hang on there.  Usually, if you don't do anything, you're deemed to 
> have consented to being 
> > part of the class.  "Opt-out" means taking affirmative steps to 
> disassociate your self from the 
> > class.  (Again, I have not read the notice).
> > 
> > 
>  OK, yes that might be true, depends on how they built the case. 
> Anyway, I do remember seeing specific language in there on how to opt 
> out, and there is a timetable in the FAQs.



Yes, here is a copy from the FAQs:

 . . . . . . .  . . . .

Do I have to participate in this settlement – can I exclude myself?   

Any request to be excluded from the Settlement Class must be made in 
writing and mailed, postage prepaid and postmarked no later than June 
7, 2006, to the Claims Administrator. Your request for exclusion must 
contain: (1) the name of this lawsuit; (2) your full name and current 
address; and (3) a statement of intention to exclude yourself from this 
lawsuit. 

 ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '  ' ' ' 

Jules

EPSON is getting what they deserve on this one. If they hadn't done 
everything in their power to prevent the average comsumer from refilling 
cartridges, the claim would be near moot. If you could easily refill a 
cartridge, the fact that it went empty and forced you to buy a new one, 
earlier than you actually needed to, would be nearly irrelevant.  It 
wouldn't much matter how much ink was still in a cartridge when it 
indicated "empty" if you could refill it.

It looks like the deception necessitated for keeping the cartridge 
profit margin is beginning to undercut the sales model they chose.

I can say there likely are more lawsuits coming aimed at other parts of 
their pricing model.  I believe EPSON even knows that (including some 
specific legal actions), as their own (Seiko-EPSON) recent stock 
prospectus / annual report notes that profits may fall if they are 
unable to protect their sales of  cartridges by excluding alternative 
cartridges/inks.

-- 
Keith

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor, P.O.V. 
Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
>

> I can say there likely are more lawsuits coming aimed at other 
parts of 
> their pricing model.  I believe EPSON even knows that (including 
some 
> specific legal actions), as their own (Seiko-EPSON) recent stock 
> prospectus / annual report notes that profits may fall if they are 
> unable to protect their sales of  cartridges by excluding 
alternative 
> cartridges/inks.
> 


That just means that the next round of Epson printers will be really 
refill unfriendly. The carts for the C86 (cx6600) are not impossible 
to refill, just not what I would call simple. I haven't been able to 
get any other versions to check, but imagine that they will be 
similar. If the carts from the 2400 or similar to the c86, then 
refilling them with Epson ink from the 4800 would be a pretty easy 
task, once you build a machine to do the messy parts. It's cleaning 
out the old Epson ink to make room for the new third party ink that 
is the real big problem!

I think what the 3rd party industry has been flirting with for many
years is a really good continuous flow system that is easy to fill and
does not clog. It seems to me that is REALLY the answer and it never
seems to happen. Come on, it can't be THAT complicated to make a good
one if they really wanted to. That way the cart design/patent issue is
completely irrelivant and this ridiculous process of taking apart
carts and refilling/rechipping them or producing machine compatable
carts is totally eliminated. But at that point a lot of even the 3rd
party resellers make LESS MONEY when quantity amounts of ink are
bought at a reasonable price. They don't like that either and why
would they? The smaller the carts the more money they all make.

So, selling small quantities of ink is what ALL of them are in the
business for,especially for all these little dinky printers, and they
ALL encourage that. The thing to do is buy it by the gallon and say to
hell with it all. 

John  



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "Editor, P.O.V. 
> Image Service" <editor@> wrote:
> >
> 
> > I can say there likely are more lawsuits coming aimed at other 
> parts of 
> > their pricing model.  I believe EPSON even knows that (including 
> some 
> > specific legal actions), as their own (Seiko-EPSON) recent stock 
> > prospectus / annual report notes that profits may fall if they are 
> > unable to protect their sales of  cartridges by excluding 
> alternative 
> > cartridges/inks.
> > 
> 
> 
> That just means that the next round of Epson printers will be really 
> refill unfriendly. The carts for the C86 (cx6600) are not impossible 
> to refill, just not what I would call simple. I haven't been able to 
> get any other versions to check, but imagine that they will be 
> similar. If the carts from the 2400 or similar to the c86, then 
> refilling them with Epson ink from the 4800 would be a pretty easy 
> task, once you build a machine to do the messy parts. It's cleaning 
> out the old Epson ink to make room for the new third party ink that 
> is the real big problem!
>

> From: john dean
>
> I think what the 3rd party industry has been flirting with for many
> years is a really good continuous flow system that is easy to fill and
> does not clog. It seems to me that is REALLY the answer and it never
> seems to happen. Come on, it can't be THAT complicated to make a good
> one if they really wanted to.

Easy for you to say. ;-)

A good CFS would only be a solution for people who print a lot. I don't. I'm
happy with carts, and am not really bothered by the price. It's just not a
meaningful number, compared, say, to the value of the time I spend on the
pictures.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...