Digital BW, The Print

When viewing silver rag under the proper lighting, you can NOT tell the difference between an 
HSR made on a 4800 with K3 inks and a traditional Silver Gelatin FB print. The obvious telltale 
sign is the paper surface when viewed under the wrong angle of light. This got me wondering 
if there exists a glass that could be used to frame that would conceal the surface texture. Or, 
is there a spray that'll do that without killing the glow of the print.

Any ideas would be helpful and appreciated.

Thank You

Bob

I just don't understand the need to try and exactly duplicate the  
look of a silver print with inkjet. Yes, inkjet prints on matte  
papers have their own unique look, what is wrong with it? What if all  
through out the history of photography the main concern was to make  
all new technology look just like the old technology, where would we be?

cort

On May 17, 2006, at 6:30 PM, bobbysandstrom wrote:

> When viewing silver rag under the proper lighting, you can NOT tell  
> the difference between an
> HSR made on a 4800 with K3 inks and a traditional Silver Gelatin FB  
> print. The obvious telltale
> sign is the paper surface when viewed under the wrong angle of  
> light. This got me wondering
> if there exists a glass that could be used to frame that would  
> conceal the surface texture. Or,
> is there a spray that'll do that without killing the glow of the  
> print.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. But primarily, I don't see the need
to fix something that only looks irritating when lit in such a way
that you can't look at the image anyway. ???
More to the point, I doubt there is such a glass. Others could comment
on sprays, but I've yet to see a post here with an "this paper/spray
is it!" exclaimation.
On other papers over the years, I've played with Krylon, Lascaux
(sp?), Golden, and Print Guard. I found no particular advantage, but
mostly, just plane hated working with sprays of questionable toxicity
and environmental impact. They all smelled like they wouldn't pass the
canary test, and my dog ran away from them.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Cort Anderson
<cort@...> wrote:

>
> I just don't understand the need to try and exactly duplicate the  
> look of a silver print with inkjet. Yes, inkjet prints on matte  
> papers have their own unique look, what is wrong with it? What if all  
> through out the history of photography the main concern was to make  
> all new technology look just like the old technology, where would we be?
> 
> cort
> 
> On May 17, 2006, at 6:30 PM, bobbysandstrom wrote:
> 
> > When viewing silver rag under the proper lighting, you can NOT tell  
> > the difference between an
> > HSR made on a 4800 with K3 inks and a traditional Silver Gelatin FB  
> > print. The obvious telltale
> > sign is the paper surface when viewed under the wrong angle of  
> > light. This got me wondering
> > if there exists a glass that could be used to frame that would  
> > conceal the surface texture. Or,
> > is there a spray that'll do that without killing the glow of the  
> > print.
>

Now that I have the Innova Fibaprint F-type Glossy and K3 inks, a paper-ink combo with 
thrilling blacks, when I look at the prints I find myself missing the delicate tones of the 
UT-7 inks on HPR.  They're both good.

Ed

> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Cort Anderson
> <cort@> wrote:
> >
snip

... inkjet prints on matte  
> > papers have their own unique look

snip

WIth regards to looking like Silver Gelatin the only reason I bring it up is because it happens 
to be my favorite "look." Now you may say, "Well use silver gelatin." That's all well and good 
except unfortunately with the demise of so many beautiful traditional products my paper was 
swept away from me and I've been having a very difficult time finding a replacement that 
excites me as much. I'm coming up short. So, given the opportunity to achieve that look with 
a digital print would make me ecstatic. I really like the look of inkjet matte paper very much. 
However, I like the look of a silver gelatin FB print a little more. What's one to do? Hence the 
question.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bobbysandstrom" 
<bobbysandstrom@...> wrote:
>
> ...I really like the look of inkjet matte paper very much. 
> However, I like the look of a silver gelatin FB print a little more. What's one to do? Hence 
the 
> question.
>
I understand and didn't mean to critisize. By the way, John Dean is your man for spray info, 
definitely. Hopefully he will reply.
Tyler

With the glossy rc papers and even with Silver Rag with most inksets,
such as Ultrachrome K2, the Premier Art Spray does eliminate the gloss
differential relief look which for me compromises those surfaces. With
Epson K3 the Silver Rag does in my opinion benefit from the Premier
Art or Lyson Printguard sprays and evens out that sheen. But K3 looks
pretty good to me without it on Silver Rag but not with the Epson rc
gloss papers which still have unacceptable bronzing and gloss diff
problems.

The main reason I use these sprays though is 1. to provide permanence
protection 2. provide surface protection. We all know how vulnerable
these prints are when handled and not behind glass, especially the
blacks. However, Epson's new inks are tougher, and Cones new pigments
are really tough, and almost completely waterproof. 

Do the sprays stink, yes. Are they toxic, hell yes. Is Premier Art
delivering on its promise to provide an aerisol spray for an Eco,
non-toxic spray that does not adversly change the surface of the
print. No they are not. I'm still waiting. We're totally there for
canvas with the uv acrylic varnishes, but prints... we need a safer
solution.

John




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with this wholeheartedly. But primarily, I don't see the need
> to fix something that only looks irritating when lit in such a way
> that you can't look at the image anyway. ???
> More to the point, I doubt there is such a glass. Others could comment
> on sprays, but I've yet to see a post here with an "this paper/spray
> is it!" exclaimation.
> On other papers over the years, I've played with Krylon, Lascaux
> (sp?), Golden, and Print Guard. I found no particular advantage, but
> mostly, just plane hated working with sprays of questionable toxicity
> and environmental impact. They all smelled like they wouldn't pass the
> canary test, and my dog ran away from them.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Cort Anderson
> <cort@> wrote:
> >
> > I just don't understand the need to try and exactly duplicate the  
> > look of a silver print with inkjet. Yes, inkjet prints on matte  
> > papers have their own unique look, what is wrong with it? What if
all  
> > through out the history of photography the main concern was to make  
> > all new technology look just like the old technology, where would
we be?
> > 
> > cort
> > 
> > On May 17, 2006, at 6:30 PM, bobbysandstrom wrote:
> > 
> > > When viewing silver rag under the proper lighting, you can NOT
tell  
> > > the difference between an
> > > HSR made on a 4800 with K3 inks and a traditional Silver Gelatin
FB  

> > > print. The obvious telltale
> > > sign is the paper surface when viewed under the wrong angle of  
> > > light. This got me wondering
> > > if there exists a glass that could be used to frame that would  
> > > conceal the surface texture. Or,
> > > is there a spray that'll do that without killing the glow of the  
> > > print.
> >
>

John, Have you tried the DCP sprays? And if some one is looking for a "looks
like"...  I Really like the 1:1 satin to glossy light spray of DCP on Innova
Photo Smooth and Cranes Museo Max. 

AS for a glass to make it hide? There are some glasses that are spendy such
as Demi glass that might do the trick. 

Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john
> dean
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:10 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Framing Glass to hide Silver Rag Luster??
> 
> With the glossy rc papers and even with Silver Rag with most inksets,
> such as Ultrachrome K2, the Premier Art Spray does eliminate the gloss
> differential relief look which for me compromises those surfaces. With
> Epson K3 the Silver Rag does in my opinion benefit from the Premier
> Art or Lyson Printguard sprays and evens out that sheen. But K3 looks
> pretty good to me without it on Silver Rag but not with the Epson rc
> gloss papers which still have unacceptable bronzing and gloss diff
> problems.
> 
> The main reason I use these sprays though is 1. to provide permanence
> protection 2. provide surface protection. We all know how vulnerable
> these prints are when handled and not behind glass, especially the
> blacks. However, Epson's new inks are tougher, and Cones new pigments
> are really tough, and almost completely waterproof.
> 
> Do the sprays stink, yes. Are they toxic, hell yes. Is Premier Art
> delivering on its promise to provide an aerisol spray for an Eco,
> non-toxic spray that does not adversly change the surface of the
> print. No they are not. I'm still waiting. We're totally there for
> canvas with the uv acrylic varnishes, but prints... we need a safer
> solution.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@...> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with this wholeheartedly. But primarily, I don't see the need
> > to fix something that only looks irritating when lit in such a way
> > that you can't look at the image anyway. ???
> > More to the point, I doubt there is such a glass. Others could comment
> > on sprays, but I've yet to see a post here with an "this paper/spray
> > is it!" exclaimation.
> > On other papers over the years, I've played with Krylon, Lascaux
> > (sp?), Golden, and Print Guard. I found no particular advantage, but
> > mostly, just plane hated working with sprays of questionable toxicity
> > and environmental impact. They all smelled like they wouldn't pass the
> > canary test, and my dog ran away from them.
> > Tyler
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Cort Anderson
> > <cort@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just don't understand the need to try and exactly duplicate the
> > > look of a silver print with inkjet. Yes, inkjet prints on matte
> > > papers have their own unique look, what is wrong with it? What if
> all
> > > through out the history of photography the main concern was to make
> > > all new technology look just like the old technology, where would
> we be?
> > >
> > > cort
> > >
> > > On May 17, 2006, at 6:30 PM, bobbysandstrom wrote:
> > >
> > > > When viewing silver rag under the proper lighting, you can NOT
> tell
> > > > the difference between an
> > > > HSR made on a 4800 with K3 inks and a traditional Silver Gelatin
> FB
> > > > print. The obvious telltale
> > > > sign is the paper surface when viewed under the wrong angle of
> > > > light. This got me wondering
> > > > if there exists a glass that could be used to frame that would
> > > > conceal the surface texture. Or,
> > > > is there a spray that'll do that without killing the glow of the
> > > > print.
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

No, I haven't, cool, I'll check them out. I have been using the DCP
liquid acrylic/laytex varnish for my canvas work and I have nothing
but good things to say about it. I did roll the satin varnish on a
print and it looked a little too much like rc surface for me. But I
will try the spray as I didn't know they offered one. You can put the
 Premier Art Eco varnish (according to them) in a low pressure high
volume sprayer, I've been told by others, don't bother, it isn't the
same as the solvent invisible surface quality. 

john


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen "
<e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>
> John, Have you tried the DCP sprays? And if some one is looking for
a "looks
> like"...  I Really like the 1:1 satin to glossy light spray of DCP
on Innova
> Photo Smooth and Cranes Museo Max. 
> 
> AS for a glass to make it hide? There are some glasses that are
spendy such
> as Demi glass that might do the trick. 
> 
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street
> Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
john
> > dean
> > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:10 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Framing Glass to hide Silver Rag Luster??
> > 
> > With the glossy rc papers and even with Silver Rag with most inksets,
> > such as Ultrachrome K2, the Premier Art Spray does eliminate the gloss
> > differential relief look which for me compromises those surfaces. With
> > Epson K3 the Silver Rag does in my opinion benefit from the Premier
> > Art or Lyson Printguard sprays and evens out that sheen. But K3 looks
> > pretty good to me without it on Silver Rag but not with the Epson rc
> > gloss papers which still have unacceptable bronzing and gloss diff
> > problems.
> > 
> > The main reason I use these sprays though is 1. to provide permanence
> > protection 2. provide surface protection. We all know how vulnerable
> > these prints are when handled and not behind glass, especially the
> > blacks. However, Epson's new inks are tougher, and Cones new pigments
> > are really tough, and almost completely waterproof.
> > 
> > Do the sprays stink, yes. Are they toxic, hell yes. Is Premier Art
> > delivering on its promise to provide an aerisol spray for an Eco,
> > non-toxic spray that does not adversly change the surface of the
> > print. No they are not. I'm still waiting. We're totally there for
> > canvas with the uv acrylic varnishes, but prints... we need a safer
> > solution.
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> > <tyler@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree with this wholeheartedly. But primarily, I don't see the
need
> > > to fix something that only looks irritating when lit in such a way
> > > that you can't look at the image anyway. ???
> > > More to the point, I doubt there is such a glass. Others could
comment
> > > on sprays, but I've yet to see a post here with an "this paper/spray
> > > is it!" exclaimation.
> > > On other papers over the years, I've played with Krylon, Lascaux
> > > (sp?), Golden, and Print Guard. I found no particular advantage, but
> > > mostly, just plane hated working with sprays of questionable
toxicity
> > > and environmental impact. They all smelled like they wouldn't
pass the
> > > canary test, and my dog ran away from them.
> > > Tyler
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Cort Anderson
> > > <cort@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I just don't understand the need to try and exactly duplicate the
> > > > look of a silver print with inkjet. Yes, inkjet prints on matte
> > > > papers have their own unique look, what is wrong with it? What if
> > all
> > > > through out the history of photography the main concern was to
make
> > > > all new technology look just like the old technology, where would
> > we be?
> > > >
> > > > cort
> > > >
> > > > On May 17, 2006, at 6:30 PM, bobbysandstrom wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > When viewing silver rag under the proper lighting, you can NOT
> > tell
> > > > > the difference between an
> > > > > HSR made on a 4800 with K3 inks and a traditional Silver Gelatin
> > FB
> > > > > print. The obvious telltale
> > > > > sign is the paper surface when viewed under the wrong angle of
> > > > > light. This got me wondering
> > > > > if there exists a glass that could be used to frame that would
> > > > > conceal the surface texture. Or,
> > > > > is there a spray that'll do that without killing the glow of the
> > > > > print.
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
DATA; (iii)

> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

John, I keep wondering if there is a way to apply coatings with a silk screen method. Maybe I 
wonder because I don't know squat about it. It just seems to me that once set up it could be 
fairly consistant and very quick to apply.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> 
wrote:

>
> No, I haven't, cool, I'll check them out. I have been using the DCP
> liquid acrylic/laytex varnish for my canvas work and I have nothing
> but good things to say about it. I did roll the satin varnish on a
> print and it looked a little too much like rc surface for me. But I
> will try the spray as I didn't know they offered one. You can put the
>  Premier Art Eco varnish (according to them) in a low pressure high
> volume sprayer, I've been told by others, don't bother, it isn't the
> same as the solvent invisible surface quality. 
> 
> john

Eric, what do you mean by "looks like?" I hope you mean gloss type look over the matte 
paper.

Bob

> John, Have you tried the DCP sprays? And if some one is looking for a "looks
> like"...  I Really like the 1:1 satin to glossy light spray of DCP on Innova
> Photo Smooth and Cranes Museo Max.

John, Sorry if I gave the impression that they had a spray. I spray the
liquid at a mix of 1:1 with a compressor and spray gun. I'd agree that a
heavy look may not be too appealing. I am looking to make the prints have
the old Portriga Rapid or even a Agfa 118 MCC look; slightly glossy but
mostly luster, not as shiny as an E surface print. 

Eric 

Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john
> dean
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 8:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Framing Glass to hide Silver Rag Luster??
> 
> No, I haven't, cool, I'll check them out. I have been using the DCP
> liquid acrylic/laytex varnish for my canvas work and I have nothing
> but good things to say about it. I did roll the satin varnish on a
> print and it looked a little too much like rc surface for me. But I
> will try the spray as I didn't know they offered one. You can put the
>  Premier Art Eco varnish (according to them) in a low pressure high
> volume sprayer, I've been told by others, don't bother, it isn't the
> same as the solvent invisible surface quality.
> 
> john
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

If the glossy paper that you are trying to match is Ilford MGIV FB, that can
be done. The "look like" was a general reference to a comment in Tyler's
post. The 1:1 with satin and gloss lightly spray on Innova is the look that
I find appealing; so it is a suggested "look".  


But Why Do I spray these prints? Not because I need to fill a void left by
not doing silver printing, that I still do as well, but rather just to
protect the surface from abrasion and hopefully make the print last a little
longer. Will I be around to see their deterioration? I hope not : ) 

Eric 

Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> bobbysandstrom
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:30 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Framing Glass to hide Silver Rag Luster??
> 
> Eric, what do you mean by "looks like?" I hope you mean gloss type look
> over the matte
> paper.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > John, Have you tried the DCP sprays? And if some one is looking for a
> "looks
> > like"...  I Really like the 1:1 satin to glossy light spray of DCP on
> Innova
> > Photo Smooth and Cranes Museo Max.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Well I just bought some of the DCP gloss varnish along with the Satin.
I found that with canvas if you use these together 1:1 you do achieve
a more brilliant tonal range and a nice smooth surface. I guess it is
time for me to buy one of those spray guns and check it out. I also
liked the old Agfa (God rest their soul) 111 surface a lot. It was my
standard for years. It does make the canvas prints totally protected
and totally waterproof.

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen"
<e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>
> If the glossy paper that you are trying to match is Ilford MGIV FB,
that can
> be done. The "look like" was a general reference to a comment in Tyler's
> post. The 1:1 with satin and gloss lightly spray on Innova is the
look that
> I find appealing; so it is a suggested "look".  
> 
> 
> But Why Do I spray these prints? Not because I need to fill a void
left by
> not doing silver printing, that I still do as well, but rather just to
> protect the surface from abrasion and hopefully make the print last
a little
> longer. Will I be around to see their deterioration? I hope not : ) 
> 
> Eric 
> 
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street
> Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > bobbysandstrom
> > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:30 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Framing Glass to hide Silver Rag Luster??
> > 
> > Eric, what do you mean by "looks like?" I hope you mean gloss type
look
> > over the matte
> > paper.
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > John, Have you tried the DCP sprays? And if some one is looking
for a
> > "looks
> > > like"...  I Really like the 1:1 satin to glossy light spray of
DCP on
> > Innova
> > > Photo Smooth and Cranes Museo Max.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
DATA; (iii)

> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bobbysandstrom" 
<bobbysandstrom@...> wrote:
>
> When viewing silver rag under the proper lighting, you can NOT 
tell the difference between an 
> HSR made on a 4800 with K3 inks and a traditional Silver Gelatin 
FB print. The obvious telltale 
> sign is the paper surface when viewed under the wrong angle of 
light. This got me wondering 
> if there exists a glass that could be used to frame that would 
conceal the surface texture. Or, 
> is there a spray that'll do that without killing the glow of the 
print.
> 
> Any ideas would be helpful and appreciated.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Bob
>
The best anti-glare and UV inhibited glass I have found is Tru Vue 
Museum Glass.  I have used it for my conventional silver gelatin 
prints as well as my inkjet prints.  With the silver gelatin I think 
it actually gives the impression of more "alive" shadow detail 
because of the flare reduction.  It's not cheap - about $25/16x20 
sheet in 3 sheet cases.  I get mine from ABC Moulding in Denver (1-
800-621-3315).  Hope this helps!

Cheers,

TK

Thanks Everyone. I've received some very helpful info.

Bob